Lapsed Catholics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don’t criticize me for choosing to be a practicing catholic and raising my kids in the faith.

But, if you are a lapsed catholic, is there anything your parents did or did not do that contributed to you wanting to leave the church? I don’t care about any of the issues with the church. I’m well aware of the issues. But, when it came to family devotions, practices, schooling, etc...do you think your parents did or didn’t do anything that factored into your teen/adult thoughts and choices?

I was sexually abused by a relative and they tried to hide it so they could portray the image of the beautiful extended family. Even throughout my life the focus was always on me forgiving him and befriending him rather than protecting me. I had to spend many years after sitting next to him, being alone with him etc. Later I found out my abuser was unhappy in his marriage and wanted to divorce but my parents argued against it which probably led to the abuse. It's further triggering to have found out as an adult that the church itself promoted this behavior with priests and children and then to see other Catholic friends also not support the victims. Then to see them act like they care about unborn babies rather than the babies priests abused is more unforgiving. Then realizing that people are not able healthily to abstain this much from sex and that the entire religion is built on a foundation of giving up your life for some supposed great future life and excusing behavior on earth versus trying to live your best moral life here and manage your earthly desires was another point that turned me away from the church. I saw priests pretend to be celibate but really be gay because they couldn't face their own masculinity and then turn around and tell people that being gay was wrong. Then to see people politicize the religion and act like they were christians while doing majorly unchristian things made the little customs that I liked about the religion turn into weapons as these people paraded this belief that whatever custom they adhered to was more important than being a good person. Basically, one major lapse by my family led to the realization that the entire foundation of the religion was shaky.

Interestingly I still practice the faith in my own way kind of combining jewish secular, and catholic customs and beliefs.
What I couldn't get away from though was the fact that I was worshipping a woman who never had sex but somehow became a mother to all and was a human without sin so nothing like regular women and a man who somehow saved everyone by dying himself and also was without sin. It wasn't an achievable earthly outcome nor did it seem a path to becoming godlike by forsaking the body completely. I couldn't get over that this faith was basically discarding the use and regulation of the goodness and evilness within the human body. I think it relates to why so many Catholics and Christians disregard their lives on earth and make excuses for their behavior. People blame St. Augustine for bringing in the gnostic anti-body traditions, but I think it was present before this. Even communion. Eating the body. By making these people into gods it kind of tricks us into thinking we can also be like them but we are human. Mortal. And we have to contend with our survival and others on earth. So my issues ended up running way beyond just being upset at the church for abuse. I fail to see people living the faith in a way that actually contends with their human needs. They either give into the secretly or refrain from society so much that they can barely interact with it.

what I find so interesting is that Jesus and the Christians expected the end-days were imminent - and it just never happened. So the religion has had to be retooled often. Having read the religion forum for awhile, I can't even tell you what getting into heaven means. There seems to be quite a division of opinion among Christians on this point even today.

I feel like because of this "living" isn't really discussed in the religion which is why there are so many wayward people. You could say living and controlling human nature is covered by the jewish faith books but there really isn't a lot of emphases at least in the catholic church on these and even less in most protestant church teachings.

The gospels are all about how to live. Love your enemy not just your neighbor, turn the other cheek, don’t amass worldly possessions, don’t worry about dietary rules. So very much on how to live a Christian life.

Also, I’m not Catholic, but why are you singling them out? There are plenty of wayward Jews (Madoff, Epstein, Weinstein for starters) but as a group they’re only 4-5% of the population, so your attempt to fractions of different religions who are “wayward” is laughable.

This is a discussion about lapsed Catholics and what took them away from the church starting with their parents. It's a page for previous Catholics, not other religions. It started for me with child abuse which led to me realizing that it's rampant in the church which led to some introspection as to why which led to some realization that both Jesus and Mary were only partial humans who basically gave up all of their human needs as if they couldn't be managed and didn't exist, particularly their sexuality which led me to realize that a lot of Catholics (and other religions as well) that suppress their basic human needs in ways that are unhealthy by either being some sort of modern-day Dimmesdale (Scarlet Letter example) or by living against the bible and then saying they are with God and trust in him to save themselves from their sins also not taking responsibility for their own human needs and blaming them on others. It's a refreshing discussion to have with actual semi-religious people as opposed to reactive people like you who can't just see the comments for what they are and always have to take it as an attack on your religion. Why bother going on a lapsed catholic page? You know you aren't going to agree with them. Many people are still spiritual and believe in God while not being of a religion. You seem overreactive yet you still assume there are only 4-5% of the US who are Catholics when there are way more and they have a lot of power. Second, many people aren't going to become Catholic or aren't going to stay Catholic no matter what you do or say and you will drive yourself crazy trying to refute all their claims. Everyone has individual choice. 3rd, just picking up the paper or going to the local church shows you how much hate many of these people have and how differently they live their lives compared to Mary or Jesus. Not one day are they loving their enemy or turning the other cheek etc. It's wasted effort on your part here to keep refuting. Just work on your own faith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP - sorry that happened to you. Two of my sibs married non-Catholics in a Catholic church. This was 30 years ago.

And 30 years before that and so on. It's not an issue in the church. You just can't have a full mass I believe if you are not catholic together. It's still a catholic service.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don’t criticize me for choosing to be a practicing catholic and raising my kids in the faith.

But, if you are a lapsed catholic, is there anything your parents did or did not do that contributed to you wanting to leave the church? I don’t care about any of the issues with the church. I’m well aware of the issues. But, when it came to family devotions, practices, schooling, etc...do you think your parents did or didn’t do anything that factored into your teen/adult thoughts and choices?

I was sexually abused by a relative and they tried to hide it so they could portray the image of the beautiful extended family. Even throughout my life the focus was always on me forgiving him and befriending him rather than protecting me. I had to spend many years after sitting next to him, being alone with him etc. Later I found out my abuser was unhappy in his marriage and wanted to divorce but my parents argued against it which probably led to the abuse. It's further triggering to have found out as an adult that the church itself promoted this behavior with priests and children and then to see other Catholic friends also not support the victims. Then to see them act like they care about unborn babies rather than the babies priests abused is more unforgiving. Then realizing that people are not able healthily to abstain this much from sex and that the entire religion is built on a foundation of giving up your life for some supposed great future life and excusing behavior on earth versus trying to live your best moral life here and manage your earthly desires was another point that turned me away from the church. I saw priests pretend to be celibate but really be gay because they couldn't face their own masculinity and then turn around and tell people that being gay was wrong. Then to see people politicize the religion and act like they were christians while doing majorly unchristian things made the little customs that I liked about the religion turn into weapons as these people paraded this belief that whatever custom they adhered to was more important than being a good person. Basically, one major lapse by my family led to the realization that the entire foundation of the religion was shaky.

Interestingly I still practice the faith in my own way kind of combining jewish secular, and catholic customs and beliefs.
What I couldn't get away from though was the fact that I was worshipping a woman who never had sex but somehow became a mother to all and was a human without sin so nothing like regular women and a man who somehow saved everyone by dying himself and also was without sin. It wasn't an achievable earthly outcome nor did it seem a path to becoming godlike by forsaking the body completely. I couldn't get over that this faith was basically discarding the use and regulation of the goodness and evilness within the human body. I think it relates to why so many Catholics and Christians disregard their lives on earth and make excuses for their behavior. People blame St. Augustine for bringing in the gnostic anti-body traditions, but I think it was present before this. Even communion. Eating the body. By making these people into gods it kind of tricks us into thinking we can also be like them but we are human. Mortal. And we have to contend with our survival and others on earth. So my issues ended up running way beyond just being upset at the church for abuse. I fail to see people living the faith in a way that actually contends with their human needs. They either give into the secretly or refrain from society so much that they can barely interact with it.

what I find so interesting is that Jesus and the Christians expected the end-days were imminent - and it just never happened. So the religion has had to be retooled often. Having read the religion forum for awhile, I can't even tell you what getting into heaven means. There seems to be quite a division of opinion among Christians on this point even today.

I feel like because of this "living" isn't really discussed in the religion which is why there are so many wayward people. You could say living and controlling human nature is covered by the jewish faith books but there really isn't a lot of emphases at least in the catholic church on these and even less in most protestant church teachings.

The gospels are all about how to live. Love your enemy not just your neighbor, turn the other cheek, don’t amass worldly possessions, don’t worry about dietary rules. So very much on how to live a Christian life.

Also, I’m not Catholic, but why are you singling them out? There are plenty of wayward Jews (Madoff, Epstein, Weinstein for starters) but as a group they’re only 4-5% of the population, so your attempt to fractions of different religions who are “wayward” is laughable.

This is a discussion about lapsed Catholics and what took them away from the church starting with their parents. It's a page for previous Catholics, not other religions. It started for me with child abuse which led to me realizing that it's rampant in the church which led to some introspection as to why which led to some realization that both Jesus and Mary were only partial humans who basically gave up all of their human needs as if they couldn't be managed and didn't exist, particularly their sexuality which led me to realize that a lot of Catholics (and other religions as well) that suppress their basic human needs in ways that are unhealthy by either being some sort of modern-day Dimmesdale (Scarlet Letter example) or by living against the bible and then saying they are with God and trust in him to save themselves from their sins also not taking responsibility for their own human needs and blaming them on others. It's a refreshing discussion to have with actual semi-religious people as opposed to reactive people like you who can't just see the comments for what they are and always have to take it as an attack on your religion. Why bother going on a lapsed catholic page? You know you aren't going to agree with them. Many people are still spiritual and believe in God while not being of a religion. You seem overreactive yet you still assume there are only 4-5% of the US who are Catholics when there are way more and they have a lot of power. Second, many people aren't going to become Catholic or aren't going to stay Catholic no matter what you do or say and you will drive yourself crazy trying to refute all their claims. Everyone has individual choice. 3rd, just picking up the paper or going to the local church shows you how much hate many of these people have and how differently they live their lives compared to Mary or Jesus. Not one day are they loving their enemy or turning the other cheek etc. It's wasted effort on your part here to keep refuting. Just work on your own faith.

I lost count of the number of insults in your post. Can you say “how to love”?

I’m not Catholic. I was responding to your assertion that Catholics and Protestants don’t worry about their behavior because they’re waiting for the end days. That’s ridiculously wrong. Now you’ve changed the subject to make it about sexual repression.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don’t criticize me for choosing to be a practicing catholic and raising my kids in the faith.

But, if you are a lapsed catholic, is there anything your parents did or did not do that contributed to you wanting to leave the church? I don’t care about any of the issues with the church. I’m well aware of the issues. But, when it came to family devotions, practices, schooling, etc...do you think your parents did or didn’t do anything that factored into your teen/adult thoughts and choices?

I was sexually abused by a relative and they tried to hide it so they could portray the image of the beautiful extended family. Even throughout my life the focus was always on me forgiving him and befriending him rather than protecting me. I had to spend many years after sitting next to him, being alone with him etc. Later I found out my abuser was unhappy in his marriage and wanted to divorce but my parents argued against it which probably led to the abuse. It's further triggering to have found out as an adult that the church itself promoted this behavior with priests and children and then to see other Catholic friends also not support the victims. Then to see them act like they care about unborn babies rather than the babies priests abused is more unforgiving. Then realizing that people are not able healthily to abstain this much from sex and that the entire religion is built on a foundation of giving up your life for some supposed great future life and excusing behavior on earth versus trying to live your best moral life here and manage your earthly desires was another point that turned me away from the church. I saw priests pretend to be celibate but really be gay because they couldn't face their own masculinity and then turn around and tell people that being gay was wrong. Then to see people politicize the religion and act like they were christians while doing majorly unchristian things made the little customs that I liked about the religion turn into weapons as these people paraded this belief that whatever custom they adhered to was more important than being a good person. Basically, one major lapse by my family led to the realization that the entire foundation of the religion was shaky.

Interestingly I still practice the faith in my own way kind of combining jewish secular, and catholic customs and beliefs.
What I couldn't get away from though was the fact that I was worshipping a woman who never had sex but somehow became a mother to all and was a human without sin so nothing like regular women and a man who somehow saved everyone by dying himself and also was without sin. It wasn't an achievable earthly outcome nor did it seem a path to becoming godlike by forsaking the body completely. I couldn't get over that this faith was basically discarding the use and regulation of the goodness and evilness within the human body. I think it relates to why so many Catholics and Christians disregard their lives on earth and make excuses for their behavior. People blame St. Augustine for bringing in the gnostic anti-body traditions, but I think it was present before this. Even communion. Eating the body. By making these people into gods it kind of tricks us into thinking we can also be like them but we are human. Mortal. And we have to contend with our survival and others on earth. So my issues ended up running way beyond just being upset at the church for abuse. I fail to see people living the faith in a way that actually contends with their human needs. They either give into the secretly or refrain from society so much that they can barely interact with it.

what I find so interesting is that Jesus and the Christians expected the end-days were imminent - and it just never happened. So the religion has had to be retooled often. Having read the religion forum for awhile, I can't even tell you what getting into heaven means. There seems to be quite a division of opinion among Christians on this point even today.

I feel like because of this "living" isn't really discussed in the religion which is why there are so many wayward people. You could say living and controlling human nature is covered by the jewish faith books but there really isn't a lot of emphases at least in the catholic church on these and even less in most protestant church teachings.

The gospels are all about how to live. Love your enemy not just your neighbor, turn the other cheek, don’t amass worldly possessions, don’t worry about dietary rules. So very much on how to live a Christian life.

Also, I’m not Catholic, but why are you singling them out? There are plenty of wayward Jews (Madoff, Epstein, Weinstein for starters) but as a group they’re only 4-5% of the population, so your attempt to fractions of different religions who are “wayward” is laughable.

This is a discussion about lapsed Catholics and what took them away from the church starting with their parents. It's a page for previous Catholics, not other religions. It started for me with child abuse which led to me realizing that it's rampant in the church which led to some introspection as to why which led to some realization that both Jesus and Mary were only partial humans who basically gave up all of their human needs as if they couldn't be managed and didn't exist, particularly their sexuality which led me to realize that a lot of Catholics (and other religions as well) that suppress their basic human needs in ways that are unhealthy by either being some sort of modern-day Dimmesdale (Scarlet Letter example) or by living against the bible and then saying they are with God and trust in him to save themselves from their sins also not taking responsibility for their own human needs and blaming them on others. It's a refreshing discussion to have with actual semi-religious people as opposed to reactive people like you who can't just see the comments for what they are and always have to take it as an attack on your religion. Why bother going on a lapsed catholic page? You know you aren't going to agree with them. Many people are still spiritual and believe in God while not being of a religion. You seem overreactive yet you still assume there are only 4-5% of the US who are Catholics when there are way more and they have a lot of power. Second, many people aren't going to become Catholic or aren't going to stay Catholic no matter what you do or say and you will drive yourself crazy trying to refute all their claims. Everyone has individual choice. 3rd, just picking up the paper or going to the local church shows you how much hate many of these people have and how differently they live their lives compared to Mary or Jesus. Not one day are they loving their enemy or turning the other cheek etc. It's wasted effort on your part here to keep refuting. Just work on your own faith.

I lost count of the number of insults in your post. Can you say “how to love”?

I’m not Catholic. I was responding to your assertion that Catholics and Protestants don’t worry about their behavior because they’re waiting for the end days. That’s ridiculously wrong. Now you’ve changed the subject to make it about sexual repression.

Well it started with sexual repression/abuse for me and it's a real thing that Catholics and Protestants don't worry about their behavior and talk about how they are saved (see any convict in prison who has found god) or repress it and this is obvious daily in politics and in churches. Books, research etc. It's not something I have to prove. It's been going on since the beginning of religion.

Even the example I gave of Dimmesdale and the Scarlet Letter when I look up the basic moral teaching of that book it says "The moral of The Scarlet Letter is that secret sin leads to guilt and pain. Hester is publicly punished, which causes her pain, but through this, she is strengthened and gains independence." The real person who struggled was Dimmesdale the minister who dies because his body is wearing out as a result of the terrible guilt that he has endured for seven years hiding his sexual sin.

[Anonymous]

And as if on cue, today's afternoon article.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pope-francis-says-priests-and-nuns-watch-vice-of-porn-warns-the-devil-enters-from-there/ar-AA13pof2?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=ab71239a13e34144a2974cfb9917ac75

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And as if on cue, today's afternoon article.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pope-francis-says-priests-and-nuns-watch-vice-of-porn-warns-the-devil-enters-from-there/ar-AA13pof2?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=ab71239a13e34144a2974cfb9917ac75

Wow! An enormous global industry and they’re the only customers!

What happened to “who am I to judge?”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And as if on cue, today's afternoon article.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pope-francis-says-priests-and-nuns-watch-vice-of-porn-warns-the-devil-enters-from-there/ar-AA13pof2?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=ab71239a13e34144a2974cfb9917ac75

Wow! An enormous global industry and they’re the only customers!

What happened to “who am I to judge?”

You are too obtuse and argumentative to follow this conversation. You add nothing to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And as if on cue, today's afternoon article.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pope-francis-says-priests-and-nuns-watch-vice-of-porn-warns-the-devil-enters-from-there/ar-AA13pof2?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=ab71239a13e34144a2974cfb9917ac75

some of these denominations a kinda weird about sex. Did you notice how the very first thing Adam and Eve noticed after she ate the apple was that they were naked. :"And the were ashamed." Why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And as if on cue, today's afternoon article.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pope-francis-says-priests-and-nuns-watch-vice-of-porn-warns-the-devil-enters-from-there/ar-AA13pof2?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=ab71239a13e34144a2974cfb9917ac75

some of these denominations a kinda weird about sex. Did you notice how the very first thing Adam and Eve noticed after she ate the apple was that they were naked. :"And the were ashamed." Why?

Funny, right after I posted that^ I went to recent topics and saw the thread about see-through dresses. Many of the comments were "stop being judgmental." I wonder what the Pope would say about that? This is where the Devil enters? https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1089783.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And as if on cue, today's afternoon article.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pope-francis-says-priests-and-nuns-watch-vice-of-porn-warns-the-devil-enters-from-there/ar-AA13pof2?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=ab71239a13e34144a2974cfb9917ac75

Wow! An enormous global industry and they’re the only customers!

What happened to “who am I to judge?”

You are too obtuse and argumentative to follow this conversation. You add nothing to it.

Hit a nerve, huh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And as if on cue, today's afternoon article.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pope-francis-says-priests-and-nuns-watch-vice-of-porn-warns-the-devil-enters-from-there/ar-AA13pof2?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=ab71239a13e34144a2974cfb9917ac75

Wow! An enormous global industry and they’re the only customers!

What happened to “who am I to judge?”

You are too obtuse and argumentative to follow this conversation. You add nothing to it.

Hit a nerve, huh?

DP. Go away, troll. You bombed on the Halloween and suicide threads. You really need to get another hobby and a more fulfilling life for yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And as if on cue, today's afternoon article.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pope-francis-says-priests-and-nuns-watch-vice-of-porn-warns-the-devil-enters-from-there/ar-AA13pof2?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=ab71239a13e34144a2974cfb9917ac75

some of these denominations a kinda weird about sex. Did you notice how the very first thing Adam and Eve noticed after she ate the apple was that they were naked. :"And the were ashamed." Why?

At least the Jews though had real people messing up but trying to follow God. I feel like Jesus and Mary aren’t real humans in the same sense. Which ok, but then they aren’t really a role model except on what God is instead of humans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And as if on cue, today's afternoon article.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pope-francis-says-priests-and-nuns-watch-vice-of-porn-warns-the-devil-enters-from-there/ar-AA13pof2?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=ab71239a13e34144a2974cfb9917ac75

some of these denominations a kinda weird about sex. Did you notice how the very first thing Adam and Eve noticed after she ate the apple was that they were naked. :"And the were ashamed." Why?

Funny, right after I posted that^ I went to recent topics and saw the thread about see-through dresses. Many of the comments were "stop being judgmental." I wonder what the Pope would say about that? This is where the Devil enters? https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1089783.page

Lust is definitely a vice but I don’t know why otherwise. I like Aristotle’s version of vices better where too much or too little of something creates issues but if managed will work well for humans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And as if on cue, today's afternoon article.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pope-francis-says-priests-and-nuns-watch-vice-of-porn-warns-the-devil-enters-from-there/ar-AA13pof2?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=ab71239a13e34144a2974cfb9917ac75

some of these denominations a kinda weird about sex. Did you notice how the very first thing Adam and Eve noticed after she ate the apple was that they were naked. :"And the were ashamed." Why?

At least the Jews though had real people messing up but trying to follow God. I feel like Jesus and Mary aren’t real humans in the same sense. Which ok, but then they aren’t really a role model except on what God is instead of humans.

You also have the apostles and Paul messing up but trying to follow God. And all the real people Jesus interacts with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And as if on cue, today's afternoon article.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pope-francis-says-priests-and-nuns-watch-vice-of-porn-warns-the-devil-enters-from-there/ar-AA13pof2?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=ab71239a13e34144a2974cfb9917ac75

Wow! An enormous global industry and they’re the only customers!

What happened to “who am I to judge?”

You are too obtuse and argumentative to follow this conversation. You add nothing to it.

Hit a nerve, huh?

DP. Go away, troll. You bombed on the Halloween and suicide threads. You really need to get another hobby and a more fulfilling life for yourself.

Huh? Never posted on those. But your emotionalized defensive response says I hit a nerve for sure.