UCs forbidden to use SAT and ACT in admissions by court

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there are so many poor/lower middle class kids who go to meh schools but crush testing and conversly there are a lot of rich dumb kids who have meh test results.

What's odd is that you think you can tell the difference between those two students, but admissions office professionals with years of full-time personal experience and decades of institutional experience can't.

If it were easy to do without test results, they would have gone test-optional long before now.

Yes, and many of them have, and many of them are... ask some individual adcoms what they think of standardized testing. You'll find quite a spectrum.

And admissions at competitive schools is NEVER easy, test results or no. The fact that you think having them makes it easy shows you don't really understand how they have to do what they do to build the class they need. It's not a statistical exercise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there are so many poor/lower middle class kids who go to meh schools but crush testing and conversly there are a lot of rich dumb kids who have meh test results.

What's odd is that you think you can tell the difference between those two students, but admissions office professionals with years of full-time personal experience and decades of institutional experience can't.

If it were easy to do without test results, they would have gone test-optional long before now.

Yes, and many of them have, and many of them are... ask some individual adcoms what they think of standardized testing. You'll find quite a spectrum.

And admissions at competitive schools is NEVER easy, test results or no. The fact that you think having them makes it easy shows you don't really understand how they have to do what they do to build the class they need. It's not a statistical exercise.

I don’t think you realize how much grade inflation there is. There are thousands of kids at the top of their classes with 4.0 and 800-1100 composite SATs. But test scores help kids who go to schools like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there are so many poor/lower middle class kids who go to meh schools but crush testing and conversly there are a lot of rich dumb kids who have meh test results.

What's odd is that you think you can tell the difference between those two students, but admissions office professionals with years of full-time personal experience and decades of institutional experience can't.

If it were easy to do without test results, they would have gone test-optional long before now.

Yes, and many of them have, and many of them are... ask some individual adcoms what they think of standardized testing. You'll find quite a spectrum.

And admissions at competitive schools is NEVER easy, test results or no. The fact that you think having them makes it easy shows you don't really understand how they have to do what they do to build the class they need. It's not a statistical exercise.

I don’t think you realize how much grade inflation there is. There are thousands of kids at the top of their classes with 4.0 and 800-1100 composite SATs. But test scores help kids who go to schools like that.

Exactly

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there are so many poor/lower middle class kids who go to meh schools but crush testing and conversly there are a lot of rich dumb kids who have meh test results.

What's odd is that you think you can tell the difference between those two students, but admissions office professionals with years of full-time personal experience and decades of institutional experience can't.

If it were easy to do without test results, they would have gone test-optional long before now.

Yes, and many of them have, and many of them are... ask some individual adcoms what they think of standardized testing. You'll find quite a spectrum.

And admissions at competitive schools is NEVER easy, test results or no. The fact that you think having them makes it easy shows you don't really understand how they have to do what they do to build the class they need. It's not a statistical exercise.

I don’t think you realize how much grade inflation there is. There are thousands of kids at the top of their classes with 4.0 and 800-1100 composite SATs. But test scores help kids who go to schools like that.

Sure test scores help some worthy, able kids and hurt other worthy, able kids, probably just as many each way. No argument there.

Your statement hints you think that college admissions professionals can't tell who they want without test scores. They can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there are so many poor/lower middle class kids who go to meh schools but crush testing and conversly there are a lot of rich dumb kids who have meh test results.

What's odd is that you think you can tell the difference between those two students, but admissions office professionals with years of full-time personal experience and decades of institutional experience can't.

If it were easy to do without test results, they would have gone test-optional long before now.

Yes, and many of them have, and many of them are... ask some individual adcoms what they think of standardized testing. You'll find quite a spectrum.

And admissions at competitive schools is NEVER easy, test results or no. The fact that you think having them makes it easy shows you don't really understand how they have to do what they do to build the class they need. It's not a statistical exercise.

I don’t think you realize how much grade inflation there is. There are thousands of kids at the top of their classes with 4.0 and 800-1100 composite SATs. But test scores help kids who go to schools like that.

Sure test scores help some worthy, able kids and hurt other worthy, able kids, probably just as many each way. No argument there.

Your statement hints you think that college admissions professionals can't tell who they want without test scores. They can.

Name the huge, selective state schools that were test-optional pre-pandemic. I’ll wait.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there are so many poor/lower middle class kids who go to meh schools but crush testing and conversly there are a lot of rich dumb kids who have meh test results.

What's odd is that you think you can tell the difference between those two students, but admissions office professionals with years of full-time personal experience and decades of institutional experience can't.

If it were easy to do without test results, they would have gone test-optional long before now.

Yes, and many of them have, and many of them are... ask some individual adcoms what they think of standardized testing. You'll find quite a spectrum.

And admissions at competitive schools is NEVER easy, test results or no. The fact that you think having them makes it easy shows you don't really understand how they have to do what they do to build the class they need. It's not a statistical exercise.

I don’t think you realize how much grade inflation there is. There are thousands of kids at the top of their classes with 4.0 and 800-1100 composite SATs. But test scores help kids who go to schools like that.

Sure test scores help some worthy, able kids and hurt other worthy, able kids, probably just as many each way. No argument there.

Your statement hints you think that college admissions professionals can't tell who they want without test scores. They can.

Name the huge, selective state schools that were test-optional pre-pandemic. I’ll wait.

Well that's a pretty small target that you have laid out there. Are you denying that the move to test optional wasn't a trend before the pandemic? You know it was.

And so many schools moved easily to de-emphasize tests now. Here is a list of 790 of them:

https://www.fairtest.org/sites/default/files/Optional-Schools-in-U.S.News-Top-Tiers.pdf

Yes the pandemic was the catalyst, but they sure didn't go kicking and screaming.

Here's a list of top schools that were test optional before the pandemic:

https://www.collegeraptor.com/find-colleges/articles/2020-university-rankings/top-25-best-test-optional-colleges-in-the-us-2020-rankings/

All competitive schools, and yet they could do it with great success. Are they lying? Are they purposefully hurting themselves?

Test scores are one data point. Potentially useful, but by no measure critical or even the most important.

[Anonymous]

SAT thresholds have always been uneven by race. Asian-Americans are full 200-300 points above Blacks and 100-150 points above Whites. I am glad that it is being removed. What equity? My Asian-American kids with perfect GPAs, with toughest course loads and with near perfect SATs and with parents who have saved for college all their lives seems like that they have been always ready for pandemic, civil unrest, racism and global warming. When you are given nothing and your hard earned things are snatched away from you - you become the students no one can subjugate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:SAT thresholds have always been uneven by race. Asian-Americans are full 200-300 points above Blacks and 100-150 points above Whites. I am glad that it is being removed. What equity? My Asian-American kids with perfect GPAs, with toughest course loads and with near perfect SATs and with parents who have saved for college all their lives seems like that they have been always ready for pandemic, civil unrest, racism and global warming. When you are given nothing and your hard earned things are snatched away from you - you become the students no one can subjugate.

? can you explain this. I really don't understand what it means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:SAT thresholds have always been uneven by race. Asian-Americans are full 200-300 points above Blacks and 100-150 points above Whites. I am glad that it is being removed. What equity? My Asian-American kids with perfect GPAs, with toughest course loads and with near perfect SATs and with parents who have saved for college all their lives seems like that they have been always ready for pandemic, civil unrest, racism and global warming. When you are given nothing and your hard earned things are snatched away from you - you become the students no one can subjugate.

Think of it this way, it's one less thing your kid has to worry about. High achieving kids will stand out in other ways. I wouldn't worry about the no SAT thing. My kid still has plenty of tests that will need to be taken, like IB/AP, which, IMO, are harder than SATs.

-signed another Asian American mom

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SAT thresholds have always been uneven by race. Asian-Americans are full 200-300 points above Blacks and 100-150 points above Whites. I am glad that it is being removed. What equity? My Asian-American kids with perfect GPAs, with toughest course loads and with near perfect SATs and with parents who have saved for college all their lives seems like that they have been always ready for pandemic, civil unrest, racism and global warming. When you are given nothing and your hard earned things are snatched away from you - you become the students no one can subjugate.

? can you explain this. I really don't understand what it means.

NP. I understood exactly what PP meant. And I was thinking along the same lines....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SAT thresholds have always been uneven by race. Asian-Americans are full 200-300 points above Blacks and 100-150 points above Whites. I am glad that it is being removed. What equity? My Asian-American kids with perfect GPAs, with toughest course loads and with near perfect SATs and with parents who have saved for college all their lives seems like that they have been always ready for pandemic, civil unrest, racism and global warming. When you are given nothing and your hard earned things are snatched away from you - you become the students no one can subjugate.

Think of it this way, it's one less thing your kid has to worry about. High achieving kids will stand out in other ways. I wouldn't worry about the no SAT thing. My kid still has plenty of tests that will need to be taken, like IB/AP, which, IMO, are harder than SATs.

-signed another Asian American mom

I agree. High achieving students will always do well. They carry with them grit, intelligence, commitment, and a solid foundation in their education. Even if they don’t go to their first choice college, they will likely do well in whatever field they go into. You can’t take that away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:SAT thresholds have always been uneven by race. Asian-Americans are full 200-300 points above Blacks and 100-150 points above Whites. I am glad that it is being removed. What equity? My Asian-American kids with perfect GPAs, with toughest course loads and with near perfect SATs and with parents who have saved for college all their lives seems like that they have been always ready for pandemic, civil unrest, racism and global warming. When you are given nothing and your hard earned things are snatched away from you - you become the students no one can subjugate.

Unfortunately, it's not just higher SAT scores. Asian applicants still lose out to blacks even with 300 more points and lose out to whites even with 150 more points in college admissions to top schools. Sad but true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SAT thresholds have always been uneven by race. Asian-Americans are full 200-300 points above Blacks and 100-150 points above Whites. I am glad that it is being removed. What equity? My Asian-American kids with perfect GPAs, with toughest course loads and with near perfect SATs and with parents who have saved for college all their lives seems like that they have been always ready for pandemic, civil unrest, racism and global warming. When you are given nothing and your hard earned things are snatched away from you - you become the students no one can subjugate.

Unfortunately, it's not just higher SAT scores. Asian applicants still lose out to blacks even with 300 more points and lose out to whites even with 150 more points in college admissions to top schools. Sad but true.

Qualify this please. To certain top schools, but not where Asians are URMs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SAT thresholds have always been uneven by race. Asian-Americans are full 200-300 points above Blacks and 100-150 points above Whites. I am glad that it is being removed. What equity? My Asian-American kids with perfect GPAs, with toughest course loads and with near perfect SATs and with parents who have saved for college all their lives seems like that they have been always ready for pandemic, civil unrest, racism and global warming. When you are given nothing and your hard earned things are snatched away from you - you become the students no one can subjugate.

Unfortunately, it's not just higher SAT scores. Asian applicants still lose out to blacks even with 300 more points and lose out to whites even with 150 more points in college admissions to top schools. Sad but true.

Wa-wa-was. Cry me a river. You wouldn't trade places with a young black man in the country, not even for a minute. Your kids would be hard pressed to have perfect gpa's if the were black because there are too many teachers who can't stand black kids and will never grade them fairly.

[Anonymous]

Sorry people pretending this doesn’t bother them. No California court is overturning this.