UCs forbidden to use SAT and ACT in admissions by court

[Anonymous]

The unintended consequences of this are that colleges will just pull from the schools they trust and won't take kids from public schools. SATS albeit flawed are an equalizer. This decision stinks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great, so much for fighting grade inflation.

Yep. 100%
It's frustrating, because if memory serves, when the CA schools did a big study, they concluded that eliminated SATs would actually have more of negative impacts on minorities.

I realize standardized testing is far from perfect, but as another PP said, be careful what you wish for...
I don't think people have really thought through the ramifications of completely eliminating a nationally normed test designed to evaluate college readiness.

the college board isn't providing accommodations this year. One of the plaintiffs was entitled to an accommodation and literally couldn't find a test center this year that could provide it. The judge ruled that allowing test scores discriminated against students who needed accommodations by giving those that did not a second chance for admission. Government services (which includes public universities), can't discriminate based on disabilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The unintended consequences of this are that colleges will just pull from the schools they trust and won't take kids from public schools. SATS albeit flawed are an equalizer. This decision stinks.

State schools can't do that either

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great, so much for fighting grade inflation.

Yep. 100%
It's frustrating, because if memory serves, when the CA schools did a big study, they concluded that eliminated SATs would actually have more of negative impacts on minorities.

I realize standardized testing is far from perfect, but as another PP said, be careful what you wish for...
I don't think people have really thought through the ramifications of completely eliminating a nationally normed test designed to evaluate college readiness.

NP. Another irony, students with learning disabilities are much more likely to have uneven grades. For some, a test score could really be a help. That is absolutely the case for one of my kids (who has no accommodations either in school or for testing) and not at all unusual for twice-exceptional students.

Maybe when Corona is gone and testing has resumed with accommodations, this ruling will be forgotten, but I'm not holding my breath. There will be unintended consequences for sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A California judge. That says it all, lol. (California judges in general have a certain reputation for... unexpected rulings, for lack of a better term.)

They sued in California court, applying California law, to schools run by California. Not sure what judge you were expecting.

I don't think the ruling is unusual. If you have a piece of the admissions process that is inaccessible to certain protected groups, that seems like a violation. And the UCs were already planning to phase out the SATs in the next 5 years for equity reasons, so it's just their interim plan that's derailed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great, so much for fighting grade inflation.

Yep. 100%
It's frustrating, because if memory serves, when the CA schools did a big study, they concluded that eliminated SATs would actually have more of negative impacts on minorities.

I realize standardized testing is far from perfect, but as another PP said, be careful what you wish for...
I don't think people have really thought through the ramifications of completely eliminating a nationally normed test designed to evaluate college readiness.

the college board isn't providing accommodations this year. One of the plaintiffs was entitled to an accommodation and literally couldn't find a test center this year that could provide it. The judge ruled that allowing test scores discriminated against students who needed accommodations by giving those that did not a second chance for admission. Government services (which includes public universities), can't discriminate based on disabilities.

This was the problem, but plenty of students couldn't find a test center, period, disabled or not. College Board apparently should have prioritized disabled students over non-disabled in doling out seats, though I suspect there wouldn't be enough even if they did that

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:50% of American high schoolers ha r straight As.

DCPS is only giving As and Bs this year. They dropped Cs and below from the grading scale entirely.

This is going to make very student even.

This will cause more colleges to require remedial classes to help students who got an "A" in English in HS but clearly can only write at a 5th grade level. Acceptances will become almost like a lottery, and admitting those students who cannot hack it in higher level institutions will hurt everyone.. These students should be going to community colleges for remedial classes, then transferring to 4 yr universities. By no means do I think that we should not help these kids, but pushing them into situations in which they are not prepared for is doing everyone a disservice.

They should replace the SATs with something else, like maybe a test like cogat or something.

[Anonymous]

Witness testimony must have relied on lack of accommodations specifically for this fall's test dates, only one of which has occurred so far. College Board moves too slow as a practical matter, but it is not too late to offer more testing to disabled students, if they can find a way within social distancing rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:50% of American high schoolers ha r straight As.

DCPS is only giving As and Bs this year. They dropped Cs and below from the grading scale entirely.

This is going to make very student even.

This will cause more colleges to require remedial classes to help students who got an "A" in English in HS but clearly can only write at a 5th grade level. Acceptances will become almost like a lottery, and admitting those students who cannot hack it in higher level institutions will hurt everyone.. These students should be going to community colleges for remedial classes, then transferring to 4 yr universities. By no means do I think that we should not help these kids, but pushing them into situations in which they are not prepared for is doing everyone a disservice.

They should replace the SATs with something else, like maybe a test like cogat or something.

If only admissions officers had a way to know who the good students are without needing a test score... something like knowledge of the schools and the trustworthiness of the guidance recommendations, plus their instincts, which would come with the many years of organizational and personal experience that clearly none of them have...

...oh well, I guess they are now doomed to admit entire classes of unworthy idiots while the truly worthy are denied!

/endsarcasm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:50% of American high schoolers ha r straight As.

DCPS is only giving As and Bs this year. They dropped Cs and below from the grading scale entirely.

This is going to make very student even.

This will cause more colleges to require remedial classes to help students who got an "A" in English in HS but clearly can only write at a 5th grade level. Acceptances will become almost like a lottery, and admitting those students who cannot hack it in higher level institutions will hurt everyone.. These students should be going to community colleges for remedial classes, then transferring to 4 yr universities. By no means do I think that we should not help these kids, but pushing them into situations in which they are not prepared for is doing everyone a disservice.

They should replace the SATs with something else, like maybe a test like cogat or something.

CogAT relies too heavily on speed, though I get what you mean; it sounds like you are referring to ability testing. The old old old SAT purported to measure ability, unlike the current one that purports to measure academic skills per the Common Core State Standards.

(Poor David Coleman, SAT is going down in flames and it's only partly his fault; no one could have predicted a pandemic. I thought he would have been gone long before now...)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:50% of American high schoolers ha r straight As.

DCPS is only giving As and Bs this year. They dropped Cs and below from the grading scale entirely.

This is going to make very student even.

This will cause more colleges to require remedial classes to help students who got an "A" in English in HS but clearly can only write at a 5th grade level. Acceptances will become almost like a lottery, and admitting those students who cannot hack it in higher level institutions will hurt everyone.. These students should be going to community colleges for remedial classes, then transferring to 4 yr universities. By no means do I think that we should not help these kids, but pushing them into situations in which they are not prepared for is doing everyone a disservice.

They should replace the SATs with something else, like maybe a test like cogat or something.

If only admissions officers had a way to know who the good students are without needing a test score... something like knowledge of the schools and the trustworthiness of the guidance recommendations, plus their instincts, which would come with the many years of organizational and personal experience that clearly none of them have...

...oh well, I guess they are now doomed to admit entire classes of unworthy idiots while the truly worthy are denied!

/endsarcasm

for the UC system, falling back on known schools is just going to make the multitude of ongoing litigation over access and bias go worse for them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:50% of American high schoolers ha r straight As.

DCPS is only giving As and Bs this year. They dropped Cs and below from the grading scale entirely.

This is going to make very student even.

This will cause more colleges to require remedial classes to help students who got an "A" in English in HS but clearly can only write at a 5th grade level. Acceptances will become almost like a lottery, and admitting those students who cannot hack it in higher level institutions will hurt everyone.. These students should be going to community colleges for remedial classes, then transferring to 4 yr universities. By no means do I think that we should not help these kids, but pushing them into situations in which they are not prepared for is doing everyone a disservice.

They should replace the SATs with something else, like maybe a test like cogat or something.

If only admissions officers had a way to know who the good students are without needing a test score... something like knowledge of the schools and the trustworthiness of the guidance recommendations, plus their instincts, which would come with the many years of organizational and personal experience that clearly none of them have...

...oh well, I guess they are now doomed to admit entire classes of unworthy idiots while the truly worthy are denied!

/endsarcasm

for the UC system, falling back on known schools is just going to make the multitude of ongoing litigation over access and bias go worse for them

You think so? Why? Aren't they already forbidden from considering the racial balance objectives most competitive schools use? Seriously asking, not arguing your point, BTW.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:50% of American high schoolers ha r straight As.

DCPS is only giving As and Bs this year. They dropped Cs and below from the grading scale entirely.

This is going to make very student even.

This will cause more colleges to require remedial classes to help students who got an "A" in English in HS but clearly can only write at a 5th grade level. Acceptances will become almost like a lottery, and admitting those students who cannot hack it in higher level institutions will hurt everyone.. These students should be going to community colleges for remedial classes, then transferring to 4 yr universities. By no means do I think that we should not help these kids, but pushing them into situations in which they are not prepared for is doing everyone a disservice.

They should replace the SATs with something else, like maybe a test like cogat or something.

If only admissions officers had a way to know who the good students are without needing a test score... something like knowledge of the schools and the trustworthiness of the guidance recommendations, plus their instincts, which would come with the many years of organizational and personal experience that clearly none of them have...

...oh well, I guess they are now doomed to admit entire classes of unworthy idiots while the truly worthy are denied!

/endsarcasm

for the UC system, falling back on known schools is just going to make the multitude of ongoing litigation over access and bias go worse for them

You think so? Why? Aren't they already forbidden from considering the racial balance objectives most competitive schools use? Seriously asking, not arguing your point, BTW.

They're forbidden from considering it, but they are also currently in litigation based on discrimination (this restraining order was part of that ongoing case). On the one hand, they can't consider race, but on the other they can be sued under other state law for discrimination if the admissions process disadvantages protected classes. Under the old system, the could probably look to the schools they knew well and then make sure they hit whatever numbers for URM they needed. Now they can't do the second part, but the schools they know well are probably going to be the elite ones, so relying on them means fewer URM students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:50% of American high schoolers ha r straight As.

DCPS is only giving As and Bs this year. They dropped Cs and below from the grading scale entirely.

This is going to make very student even.

This will cause more colleges to require remedial classes to help students who got an "A" in English in HS but clearly can only write at a 5th grade level. Acceptances will become almost like a lottery, and admitting those students who cannot hack it in higher level institutions will hurt everyone.. These students should be going to community colleges for remedial classes, then transferring to 4 yr universities. By no means do I think that we should not help these kids, but pushing them into situations in which they are not prepared for is doing everyone a disservice.

They should replace the SATs with something else, like maybe a test like cogat or something.

If only admissions officers had a way to know who the good students are without needing a test score... something like knowledge of the schools and the trustworthiness of the guidance recommendations, plus their instincts, which would come with the many years of organizational and personal experience that clearly none of them have...

...oh well, I guess they are now doomed to admit entire classes of unworthy idiots while the truly worthy are denied!

/endsarcasm

for the UC system, falling back on known schools is just going to make the multitude of ongoing litigation over access and bias go worse for them

You think so? Why? Aren't they already forbidden from considering the racial balance objectives most competitive schools use? Seriously asking, not arguing your point, BTW.

NP. Prop 209 is up for a vote this fall. At least some UCs, Berkeley if I recall, already admitted to flouting the law against using race in the admission season that just finished. So that one is on its way out.

I agree with the PP that this is going to make it harder, not easier, for a fair admission process, especially to the extent UCs seek socioeconomic diversity. There are high schools that don't even offer APs in CA, huge cost in GPA points. Reliance on tried-and-true rigorous high schools will increase, though those who played that high-pressure game are the ones who will win admission to UCs. Diamonds in the rough at poor high schools lose out, period. Lower GPA students who bit off more than they can chew for APs but can otherwise do well will need to look out of state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:50% of American high schoolers ha r straight As.

DCPS is only giving As and Bs this year. They dropped Cs and below from the grading scale entirely.

This is going to make very student even.

This will cause more colleges to require remedial classes to help students who got an "A" in English in HS but clearly can only write at a 5th grade level. Acceptances will become almost like a lottery, and admitting those students who cannot hack it in higher level institutions will hurt everyone.. These students should be going to community colleges for remedial classes, then transferring to 4 yr universities. By no means do I think that we should not help these kids, but pushing them into situations in which they are not prepared for is doing everyone a disservice.

They should replace the SATs with something else, like maybe a test like cogat or something.

If only admissions officers had a way to know who the good students are without needing a test score... something like knowledge of the schools and the trustworthiness of the guidance recommendations, plus their instincts, which would come with the many years of organizational and personal experience that clearly none of them have...

...oh well, I guess they are now doomed to admit entire classes of unworthy idiots while the truly worthy are denied!

/endsarcasm

for the UC system, falling back on known schools is just going to make the multitude of ongoing litigation over access and bias go worse for them

You think so? Why? Aren't they already forbidden from considering the racial balance objectives most competitive schools use? Seriously asking, not arguing your point, BTW.

UC's cannot say an A from a private school is worth more than an A from an inner city public school. That would not be fair to the inner city student who is attending his or her neighborhood school. I don't know how UC's are going to base their decisions. there is rampant grade inflation particularly in upper middle class public schools.