The return of the feminine business attire uniform

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If AOC's dress is your standard for the idea of a sheath dress, sure. The sheath dresses I see are always more sexy.

I don't think it's fair to equate the dress codes for teens at school and women in the workplace. My choice to not "take advantage of my looks" in the workplace is a choice, and it's a rebellious one against the pressure felt that women in the workplace need to be eye candy.

I'm not sure what workplace you're a part of, but here in Washington the standard is definitely to be as boring and non-sexual as possible. Women who dress with personality are a rarity. You're not special because you think you're too good to pay attention to clothes.

I'm "here in Washington" too. I dress with personality, just not an overtly sexual one. But yes, I am special! For all the worky work things I do and valuable innovative things I say that men get to he-peat away or mansplain back to me!

So clearly your jacket over the sheath dress isn't working either.

Tou-f**king-ché.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see Pelosi or AOC’s clothing as at all sexual. They are tailored sheath dresses. They look like professional women to me and I’ll admit, this is exactly what I and many women in my office wear.

Are Warren and Clinton supposed to be the standard here?

I think Clinton in the early 2000s (less so now) and Warren today are the best examples of the uniform that intends to simplify fashion into a non-factor for female leaders. Pelosi is an interesting topic because she also wears the same cut daily but it isn't really a simplification because of all the thought that goes into her appearance as well as high fashion sensibility of her wardrobe so I don't think it serves the purpose of making clothes a non-factor.

PP. Great points. The challenge is that I read Warren and Clinton as women who don’t like clothes very much in the first place. They don’t see clothes as an expression of personality, but as functional items to cover their bodies. I could never be happy like that - I like my work clothes to convey competence, authority, and femininity. The Black Halo Jackie O (fitted appropriately) is the perfect embodiment of this to me. (Im a lawyer and it was a staple of female lawyers at my old firm.)

I'm a lawyer too and I hate uniforms of all sorts, whether in the Warren/Clinton mode or any other style. Your clothes should be practical and comfortable, yes, but they should also make you happy. I like to look in the mirror and smile. I like to play with color, silhouette and proportion. Competence, authority, and wisdom are demonstrated in the quality of your work and the results you get for your clients. As for "feminity" -- that's in the eye of the beholder and the beholden. You can look pretty and feminine and chic in a LBD or in a smoking jacket and silk trousers.

So don’t develop a personal uniform.

But if you think Nancy isn’t enjoying her clothes at least a little or isnt playing with color, I think you’re wrong.

[Anonymous]

Nancy looks fantastic in everything she wears. I’m a lousy slob in comparison and look old and tired at 43. Nancy you’re on the path to fashion sainthood (and of course political sainthood— our democracy is precariously balanced upon those stilettos!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see Pelosi or AOC’s clothing as at all sexual. They are tailored sheath dresses. They look like professional women to me and I’ll admit, this is exactly what I and many women in my office wear.

Are Warren and Clinton supposed to be the standard here?

I think Clinton in the early 2000s (less so now) and Warren today are the best examples of the uniform that intends to simplify fashion into a non-factor for female leaders. Pelosi is an interesting topic because she also wears the same cut daily but it isn't really a simplification because of all the thought that goes into her appearance as well as high fashion sensibility of her wardrobe so I don't think it serves the purpose of making clothes a non-factor.

PP. Great points. The challenge is that I read Warren and Clinton as women who don’t like clothes very much in the first place. They don’t see clothes as an expression of personality, but as functional items to cover their bodies. I could never be happy like that - I like my work clothes to convey competence, authority, and femininity. The Black Halo Jackie O (fitted appropriately) is the perfect embodiment of this to me. (Im a lawyer and it was a staple of female lawyers at my old firm.)

I'm a lawyer too and I hate uniforms of all sorts, whether in the Warren/Clinton mode or any other style. Your clothes should be practical and comfortable, yes, but they should also make you happy. I like to look in the mirror and smile. I like to play with color, silhouette and proportion. Competence, authority, and wisdom are demonstrated in the quality of your work and the results you get for your clients. As for "feminity" -- that's in the eye of the beholder and the beholden. You can look pretty and feminine and chic in a LBD or in a smoking jacket and silk trousers.

So don’t develop a personal uniform.

But if you think Nancy isn’t enjoying her clothes at least a little or isnt playing with color, I think you’re wrong.

Nancy gets quoted in fashion magazines quite a bit. She talks pretty openly about how fun she thinks messing with clothes and accessories is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:God’s honest truth is if Nancy Pelosi weren’t the 80 year old Speaker of the House but instead my 25 year old daughter, I would recommend against wearing the type of dress she wears to work. If she were shaped more like AOC, I wouldn’t. This isn’t because of how I feel about what is appropriate but rather based on the perceptions of (thankfully a smaller and smaller group as time goes on) many older people that essentially demands that women with curves not wear anything fitted but don’t bat an eye when women without them wear the same thing.

And god’s honest truth, I think you would be doing your daughter a disservice by shaming her naturally female body.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My issue with Pelosi's style has nothing to do with the sheath dresses. Those are perfectly appropriate and acceptable for any body. However, her dresses often have these deep slits on the side which I don't think are particularly work appropriate. This is a better example of something Pelosi can only get away with because she's older.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen that much of a politician and tbh I have no need to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I suspect Pelosi's is custom made in every color by a seamstress.

I don't think so, but she does have a pat set of alterations.

These actually aren't all the same dress. The yellow has a near raglan sleeve that almost reaches the neckline. The pink doesn't actually have a waistband, instead it has elaborate panel seams, a cut on sleeve and an underarm gusset. The green has set in sleeves, princess panel and hidden zippered pockets as well as the skirt slit. Black I can't make out.

One thing they all have is a seam down the top of the arm. This has been added, she doesn't need the large sleeve that would come with a dress in her bust size, so every last one has been recut. She may be routinely having an extra angled dart added under the bust, because the bodices have two types of bust shaping. This wouldn't be necessary in a custom design. These are all off-the-rack dresses that have been cut down from a larger size.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do this but it’s stretch ponte pants, flats in summer and boots in winter, a long cardigan or silk jacket-y thing and a scarf or a necklace. Sometimes a shell and sometimes a turtleneck when it’s really cold. I have very light, loose weave cardigans for hot days.

It’s pretty close to what Elizabeth Warren wears but I am fat so I prefer a longer cardigan over her more structured, shorter jackets.

It’s like a suit but more comfortable, and it’s terrific for air travel.

I almost never wear a skirt or heels unless I’m at a meeting in a hotel, where I don’t have to go outside. But, I’m really tall and I know some shorter women like the height boost from heels. And obviously I’m not a litigator or anything. But I find with this outfit and a scarf I’m formal enough for most settings.

This sounds like me. Where do you shop?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect Pelosi's is custom made in every color by a seamstress.

I don't think so, but she does have a pat set of alterations.

These actually aren't all the same dress. The yellow has a near raglan sleeve that almost reaches the neckline. The pink doesn't actually have a waistband, instead it has elaborate panel seams, a cut on sleeve and an underarm gusset. The green has set in sleeves, princess panel and hidden zippered pockets as well as the skirt slit. Black I can't make out.

One thing they all have is a seam down the top of the arm. This has been added, she doesn't need the large sleeve that would come with a dress in her bust size, so every last one has been recut. She may be routinely having an extra angled dart added under the bust, because the bodices have two types of bust shaping. This wouldn't be necessary in a custom design. These are all off-the-rack dresses that have been cut down from a larger size.

I’m impressed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why on earth would you want to make a dress the uniform. That requires pantyhose. Pantyhose and tights are the work of the devil. Why can't we have pants be the uniform for women, too.

You are joking right? I wear a dress almost every day at work and haven't worn pantyhose in 15 years. I don't even wear them to job interviews and I've been COO at 4 different companies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She’s old and has been wearing pantyhose for decades. She probably also prefers how her legs look in hose at this age. It really is not that big of a deal to put them on.

This is me too. Pelosi has 25 years on me but I’ve always been in a workplace where pantyhose are the norm so at this point, they’re absolutely no bother and they make my legs look way better than they otherwise would.

Where are hose the norm? I've worked as a corporate lawyer and investment banker and hose were not the norm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why on earth would you want to make a dress the uniform. That requires pantyhose. Pantyhose and tights are the work of the devil. Why can't we have pants be the uniform for women, too.

Pantyhose are a gift from God. They are flattering and wonderful.

+1. The pantyhose debate is the way one can tell the difference between people who care about style and people who don’t because they’re just uncomfortable enough to annoy people who are predisposed to resenting them. Everyone looks better with pantyhose.

No they don't. They usually look ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The dress Pelosi wears in a multitude of colors is fine for a woman her age, but I think would be too revealing for anyone younger. I don't need my work attire to show my curves in that way, even if they're flattering. My attractiveness should be out of the picture altogether in the workplace. That's why I believe in a 10 or 12 outfits wardrobe of pantsuits, skirtsuits, or matching jacket+dress suit. I'll take off my jacket for the quarterly happy hour, or we we have to move around tables for an event, but otherwise, I just make slight adaptations to men's dress code.
I do this out of feminism.

I feel like this is such a weird take. Pelosi’s outfit isn’t a problem because since she’s old, it’s inherently not sexy, but if she were young, it would be too sexy for work. Either an outfit isn’t work appropriate or it is. How easy it is to sexualize the person in it shouldn’t be a factor.

Here is AOC in a dress that is nearly identical to Pelosi's. Despite being fifty years younger than Pelosi, this dress doesn't appear revealing at all and that's mostly because there isn't really anything for it to hug. It looks different on Pelosi (in part because it's better tailored) because she has curves and presumably did when she was thirty as well. It's still the exact same dress cut. This is the same attitude we see in schools that apply the dress code disproportionally towards developed teens. We need to stop seeing clothes this way because it makes it impossible for women with some semblance of a body to find chic clothes that aren't considered by some to be NSFW.

This. I would like to wear clothes that don't make me look like a tablecloth but when I do, people (other women almost always) consider it too sexualized when it's basically the same thing they wear but with hips and boobs added (something I can't do anything about).

Do you realize how judgmental and hypocritical the bolded above comes across? Women's bodies come in different shapes and sizes. Having or not having curves does not determine who has a body or who is feminine or who is a woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The dress Pelosi wears in a multitude of colors is fine for a woman her age, but I think would be too revealing for anyone younger. I don't need my work attire to show my curves in that way, even if they're flattering. My attractiveness should be out of the picture altogether in the workplace. That's why I believe in a 10 or 12 outfits wardrobe of pantsuits, skirtsuits, or matching jacket+dress suit. I'll take off my jacket for the quarterly happy hour, or we we have to move around tables for an event, but otherwise, I just make slight adaptations to men's dress code.
I do this out of feminism.

I feel like this is such a weird take. Pelosi’s outfit isn’t a problem because since she’s old, it’s inherently not sexy, but if she were young, it would be too sexy for work. Either an outfit isn’t work appropriate or it is. How easy it is to sexualize the person in it shouldn’t be a factor.

Here is AOC in a dress that is nearly identical to Pelosi's. Despite being fifty years younger than Pelosi, this dress doesn't appear revealing at all and that's mostly because there isn't really anything for it to hug. It looks different on Pelosi (in part because it's better tailored) because she has curves and presumably did when she was thirty as well. It's still the exact same dress cut. This is the same attitude we see in schools that apply the dress code disproportionally towards developed teens. We need to stop seeing clothes this way because it makes it impossible for women with some semblance of a body to find chic clothes that aren't considered by some to be NSFW.

This. I would like to wear clothes that don't make me look like a tablecloth but when I do, people (other women almost always) consider it too sexualized when it's basically the same thing they wear but with hips and boobs added (something I can't do anything about).

Do you realize how judgmental and hypocritical the bolded above comes across? Women's bodies come in different shapes and sizes. Having or not having curves does not determine who has a body or who is feminine or who is a woman.

I feel like there’s not a more polite way to make comments that are inherently not the most polite but commentary that’s relevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect Pelosi's is custom made in every color by a seamstress.

I don't think so, but she does have a pat set of alterations.

These actually aren't all the same dress. The yellow has a near raglan sleeve that almost reaches the neckline. The pink doesn't actually have a waistband, instead it has elaborate panel seams, a cut on sleeve and an underarm gusset. The green has set in sleeves, princess panel and hidden zippered pockets as well as the skirt slit. Black I can't make out.

One thing they all have is a seam down the top of the arm. This has been added, she doesn't need the large sleeve that would come with a dress in her bust size, so every last one has been recut. She may be routinely having an extra angled dart added under the bust, because the bodices have two types of bust shaping. This wouldn't be necessary in a custom design. These are all off-the-rack dresses that have been cut down from a larger size.

I’m super interested in this concept. So would they take an 8 per say and bring in sleeves that are from a smaller size or do they just bring in the sleeves like you would another part of the dress?