If you are Jewish, what stops you from moving to israel?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was born here, my family is here. I’m an American.

OP thinks we’re all secret Israelis.

OP, go back to your MAGA rallies.

I know - it's fascinating that people are criticizing Ilhan Omar for using the expression "dual loyalties" but no one seems to care that Trump referred to Netanyahu before the Republican Jewish Caucus as "your prime minister" and OP seems to think that being Jewish means you would automatically have some kind of affinity for Israel and ought to consider moving there.

Fwiw I care. But I care more about Omar bc I consider myself a D though lately and in part due to liberal antisemeitism am starting to shy away towards independent. I never felt like the Rs were my “home” anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The vast majority of American Jews were not born in Israel. Relally, OP?

Or even have Israeli ancestors. My DH’s family is from Poland but left around 1900 for the US.

Are you at all curious about how Jews got to Poland?

Are you curious about how the Celts got to Ireland?

Is anyone curious how we all got to America? I’m one of the Jews whose non-Jewish half of the family has been here since the Mayflower and I have relatives killed in an Indian massacre. Lots of messy to stuff to go around.

Yes, and I'm also curious about how the Siberians crossed the Bering Land Bridge to populate North America.

Uh oh.

And what happened to the previous Native Native Americans?

The Siberians were the first to populate North America, ding dong. https://www.futurity.org/dna-native-americans-founding-population-1762572/

Not necessarily. There could have been previous inhabitants, who died and didn't mingle with the newcomers, so DNA itself wouldn't find anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

How many Jewish responders have actually been to Israel?!?! The country is mostly secular! Tel Aviv is one of the most progressive cities on earth.

My problem with Israel is that I am not secular -- I am a reform Jew. Ironically, It is difficult to practice reform Judaism in Israel. I would even have to leave the country to have a reform Jewish wedding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was born here, my family is here. I’m an American.

OP thinks we’re all secret Israelis.

OP, go back to your MAGA rallies.

I know - it's fascinating that people are criticizing Ilhan Omar for using the expression "dual loyalties" but no one seems to care that Trump referred to Netanyahu before the Republican Jewish Caucus as "your prime minister" and OP seems to think that being Jewish means you would automatically have some kind of affinity for Israel and ought to consider moving there.

Fwiw I care. But I care more about Omar bc I consider myself a D though lately and in part due to liberal antisemeitism am starting to shy away towards independent. I never felt like the Rs were my “home” anyway.

I married a Jewish DH and I have noticed many in-laws, especially those not living in the coasts, becoming Independent for similar reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you asking this only of Jews and not, say, Canadians or Germans currently living in the U.S.?

Israel is a civilizational country, canada isn't.

You could open up the question to germans though, true.

My father is 100% German. His parents lived in the US (and became citizens) in the 20s, and moved back to Germany for a few years in the early 30s. They barely made it out before WWII. As German-Americans they quickly learned that survival in the US meant dropping their German heritage. My father and his brothers were not taught any German, there were no cultural traditions that were passed down. Nothing. The 40s were not a friendly time for them in the US but they were hell bent on survival and doing well. They did.

All that said: we have no ties to any family left in Germany, I don't think my father ever even met his grandparents, so there's nothing to go back to. We are American.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

How many Jewish responders have actually been to Israel?!?! The country is mostly secular! Tel Aviv is one of the most progressive cities on earth.

My problem with Israel is that I am not secular -- I am a reform Jew. Ironically, It is difficult to practice reform Judaism in Israel. I would even have to leave the country to have a reform Jewish wedding.

Yep. Just recently there was an article in the WaPo about Israelis who had to get married in the US because of the restrictions on marriage in Israel. One woman's mom had converted to Judaism years ago but the rabbis ruled that she couldn't convert because she was deaf (based on some scripture) and since the mom technically wasn't Jewish, neither was the daughter. I'm not Jewish but even if I were no way would I want to live in a country like that that gives the Orthodox rabbis so much power over society.

[Anonymous]

And by the way, Israel does not have the same values regarding human rights and equal treatment that we do in the United States. For all our flaws, we believe that people should receive the same treatment from their government regardless of their race, religion, or ethnicity. However, Palestinians who are citizens of Israel do not receive equal treatment. Residential segregation is pretty much enshrined in the system. Arab communities do not receive the same government support in municipal services and education as other communities. And the government just recently announced that Israel was a nation for the Jews and no one else.

Yes, yes, yes, what about the really non-democratic Arab and Persian nations in the Middle East? Yes, those countries are even worse. But that doesn't mean that the unequal treatment of Israeli citizens who belong to ethnic and racial minorities is acceptable. It wouldn't be acceptable in the US these days. It shouldn't be acceptable anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was born here, I feel American, not Israeli.

Same. Also I have big problems with Netanyahu, and the orthodoxy, and the West Bank, and a whole host of other things.

[Anonymous]

1. Right wing, racist govt. (kind of like it's getting here wcTrump)

2. I'm an American citizen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And by the way, Israel does not have the same values regarding human rights and equal treatment that we do in the United States. For all our flaws, we believe that people should receive the same treatment from their government regardless of their race, religion, or ethnicity. However, Palestinians who are citizens of Israel do not receive equal treatment. Residential segregation is pretty much enshrined in the system. Arab communities do not receive the same government support in municipal services and education as other communities. And the government just recently announced that Israel was a nation for the Jews and no one else.

Yes, yes, yes, what about the really non-democratic Arab and Persian nations in the Middle East? Yes, those countries are even worse. But that doesn't mean that the unequal treatment of Israeli citizens who belong to ethnic and racial minorities is acceptable. It wouldn't be acceptable in the US these days. It shouldn't be acceptable anywhere.

IIRC we were JUST separating families and caging migrants. I didn’t vote for Trump just like I am sure all Israelis didn’t vote for Netanyahu.

If you think the US would behave any “better” than Israel, if Mexico had in its governing document to kill all Americans and then routinely launched rockets at us, I think you are sorely mistaken.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The vast majority of American Jews were not born in Israel. Relally, OP?

Or even have Israeli ancestors. My DH’s family is from Poland but left around 1900 for the US.

Are you at all curious about how Jews got to Poland?

Are you curious about how the Celts got to Ireland?

PP you are responding to - actually I am and have read a bit about the celtic expansion in iron age (?) europe. Halstat culture, IIRC?

However the continental origins of the Irish were mostly forgotten prior to modern scholarship, and seem never to have mattered much to Irish nationalists, who after all were busy creating their own nation state in Ireland. And succeeded in doing so. The early 20th century attempt to create jewish (yiddish) autonomy in Eastern Europe never went beyond essentially cultural autonomy, and it failed. Utterly. Meanwhile it always happened in the context of a Jewish people deeply aware of their roots in the middle east.

The Galician friends I have are deeply aware of their roots as an ethnic and cultural minority in the Seubi invasion, yet none of them want to return to Germany. I'm not sure what your point is.

That Jews A. Mostly are descended from people who originiated in the land of Israel B. Many of them (including secular Zionists, but certainly anyone with any attachment to Jewish scriptures and traditional Jewish liturgy) have a connection to the land of Israel.

Passover is coming. No one will end thei seder with "Next Year, in Warsaw!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

How many Jewish responders have actually been to Israel?!?! The country is mostly secular! Tel Aviv is one of the most progressive cities on earth.

My problem with Israel is that I am not secular -- I am a reform Jew. Ironically, It is difficult to practice reform Judaism in Israel. I would even have to leave the country to have a reform Jewish wedding.

You COULD have a reform wedding, it just wouldn't create a legal marriage - you'd still have to go to Cyprus for that.

Beyond that, its not actually that difficult to practice Reform or Conservative Judaism there - there are, relative to population, about as many R and C jews as here (just that here most people are Christians or secular gentiles, there most people are Orthodox or secular Jews). There is also a non Orthodox religious educational stream (the Tali schools) which, if you send to a non O day school here, would save you money (I think the Tali schools are closer to C than R though).

I certainly find the privileges of the Orthodox there objectionable, on ideological grounds. But I don't think its actually that big a deal on a day to day level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was born here, my family is here. I’m an American.

OP thinks we’re all secret Israelis.

OP, go back to your MAGA rallies.

I know - it's fascinating that people are criticizing Ilhan Omar for using the expression "dual loyalties" but no one seems to care that Trump referred to Netanyahu before the Republican Jewish Caucus as "your prime minister" and OP seems to think that being Jewish means you would automatically have some kind of affinity for Israel and ought to consider moving there.

My twitter feed is filled with kvetching about that.

I long for the time when I did not know who Omar was, and thought of Trump as some over the top vaguely sleazy RE developer.

[Anonymous]

I prefer living in a secular society that does not discriminate against minorities. So, I will not live in Israel. But, by this definition, I should not be living in America either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And by the way, Israel does not have the same values regarding human rights and equal treatment that we do in the United States. For all our flaws, we believe that people should receive the same treatment from their government regardless of their race, religion, or ethnicity. However, Palestinians who are citizens of Israel do not receive equal treatment. Residential segregation is pretty much enshrined in the system. Arab communities do not receive the same government support in municipal services and education as other communities. And the government just recently announced that Israel was a nation for the Jews and no one else.

Yes, yes, yes, what about the really non-democratic Arab and Persian nations in the Middle East? Yes, those countries are even worse. But that doesn't mean that the unequal treatment of Israeli citizens who belong to ethnic and racial minorities is acceptable. It wouldn't be acceptable in the US these days. It shouldn't be acceptable anywhere.

IIRC we were JUST separating families and caging migrants. I didn’t vote for Trump just like I am sure all Israelis didn’t vote for Netanyahu.

If you think the US would behave any “better” than Israel, if Mexico had in its governing document to kill all Americans and then routinely launched rockets at us, I think you are sorely mistaken.

+1.

Actually the US already invaded Mexico and stole a lot of territory from them.

Let's boycott the US until it returns most Southern states to Mexico and ends the apartheid system where Spanish immersion is forbidden in many school systems to this day.