If you are Jewish, what stops you from moving to israel?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I've been trying to figure out why I'm so bothered by your question. Most Jews don't see ourselves primarily Jews who happen to be living in a country. Many of us see ourselves as Americans who happen to be Jewish. Judaism is a huge part of my identity, but so is being American.

There are as many Jews in America as there are in Israel (sometimes more or pretty close depending on which numbers you use).

Your question shows that you see Jews as an "other" group that doesn't belong here.

+1000

Sorry, OP. You're not getting rid of us that easily.

I don't see this sentiment in the question at all. What I see is someone who doesn't want to be here (doesn't see the US as a home, just an economy) and would leave in a heartbeat if they could, if they had someplace else to go. So they genuinely don't understand why people who DO have someplace to go aren't flocking there.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question. i'm not jewish but my family is clearly in the US because our home country isn't developed enough. If it was one of the twenty most developed countries in the world, we would leave. The US is an economy, not a home or a civilization.

I'm curious given the option that jewish people have, and israel's economic strength and development, that jewish people choose to stay in the US.

The US doesn't feel like your home, because you aren't from here. Most American Jews are from here. This is their home. They stay here because it's their home, and most people don't leave their home country unless there is something lacking--safety, stability, employment, etc. Why would you expect that people would leave their home just because they could?

I was born here and have lived here my entire life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The vast majority of American Jews were not born in Israel. Relally, OP?

Or even have Israeli ancestors. My DH’s family is from Poland but left around 1900 for the US.

Are you at all curious about how Jews got to Poland?

WTF is that question even supposed to mean?

Just WTF is this whole thread? I asked Jeff and I'll ask here - is this all flat out antisemitism or is this people who happened to stumble into antisemitic tropes? Jeff thinks the latter and I hope he's right - but JFC.

PP you are responding to. I am Jewish, and my grandparents came from Poland and Russia. However I am aware that Jews came to Poland in the late middle ages from Germany and northern France. They came to those places from Italy and southern France. And they came to those places from the middle east - either directly from the land of Israel, or from Babylonia (which they had arrived in from the land of Israel). I definitely have mideastern ancestors (I would call them Judeans, or Israelites - in English we reserve the term Israeli for citizens of modern Israel). That is true even if my family came, more recently, from Eastern Europe.

And of course that does not mean Jewish people from the US who do not wish to move to Israel should do so, any more than Italian Americans who do not wish to move to Italy should do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, it's because American Jews are Americans. Sephardic Jews were here in colonial times. German and Eastern European Jews started coming in large numbers in the mid-19th century. There's actually only a small number of Jews that immigrated post-1920s (when the US instituted racial immigration quotas) -- the small handful of refugees allowed in in the 30s and 40s; and then in the 70s and 80s Russian Jews.

So it is MORE LIKELY THAN NOT that the average U.S. Jewish family has been in the U.S. for as long as the average Irish or Italian Catholic family -- given that immigration for ALL groups was clamped down upon in the 1920s.

For example, in my family, on the paternal side, our earliest U.S. ancestors are German and Irish immigrants from the late 19th centure. On the maternal side, my Grandmother immigrated from England in the 1940s.

This basically means that in terms of roots, my family is likely the same (or even more recent) than the average Jewish family.

To blow you mind even more ... I grew up in California, and my Chinese and Japanese American classmates likely had roots as deep in the U.S. as my family (again, late 19th century)! Certainly, they were more Californian than I was, being able to trace back to their great-grandparents in the state.

Basically, OP, JEWS ARE AMERICANS. Just as much as any other ethnic identity in the U.S. People don't leave their country of citizenship and origin just because. They are AMERICAN. Not Israeli.

This answer makes sense.

So maybe second generation Jewish-Americans felt how I felt but by the 3rd, 4th, 5th generation, “American” becomes default.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate hot weather. I like living in a diverse society. I don’t agree with the Israeli government. And most of all, I’m American, not Israeli. Judaism is a religion and a culture, not a nationality.

The Jewish people are historically a distinct people.

Israel is quite a diverse country (and not only Jews of different origins, and Arabs, but now also Africans and south east Asians).

Well, Judaism is STILL not a nationality.

judaism is a modern term. Traditional Jewish texts refer to Am Israel (the people israel) Eretz Israel (the land of Israel) Torah Israel (the Torah of Israel) and Emunah Israel (the faith of Israel) This latter is closer to "Judaism" but is still tied to peoplehood.

The question of whether "Am Israel" is the same as, or close to, the 19th century notion of "nationality" is a fraught one - too complex for here, IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it's because American Jews are Americans. Sephardic Jews were here in colonial times. German and Eastern European Jews started coming in large numbers in the mid-19th century. There's actually only a small number of Jews that immigrated post-1920s (when the US instituted racial immigration quotas) -- the small handful of refugees allowed in in the 30s and 40s; and then in the 70s and 80s Russian Jews.

So it is MORE LIKELY THAN NOT that the average U.S. Jewish family has been in the U.S. for as long as the average Irish or Italian Catholic family -- given that immigration for ALL groups was clamped down upon in the 1920s.

For example, in my family, on the paternal side, our earliest U.S. ancestors are German and Irish immigrants from the late 19th centure. On the maternal side, my Grandmother immigrated from England in the 1940s.

This basically means that in terms of roots, my family is likely the same (or even more recent) than the average Jewish family.

To blow you mind even more ... I grew up in California, and my Chinese and Japanese American classmates likely had roots as deep in the U.S. as my family (again, late 19th century)! Certainly, they were more Californian than I was, being able to trace back to their great-grandparents in the state.

Basically, OP, JEWS ARE AMERICANS. Just as much as any other ethnic identity in the U.S. People don't leave their country of citizenship and origin just because. They are AMERICAN. Not Israeli.

This answer makes sense.

So maybe second generation Jewish-Americans felt how I felt but by the 3rd, 4th, 5th generation, “American” becomes default.

More accurately American Jews are diverse, and not only by generation - but by geography, by religious denomination, by schooling, by knowledge of Hebrew, by other aspects of culture and upbringing. And also of course by the number of Jewish parents we have.

There are clearly American Jews who DO move to Israel, and not only 2nd generation ones. There are others who do not but feel an intense attachment. There are some who feel a much lesser attachment and some who feel none at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The vast majority of American Jews were not born in Israel. Relally, OP?

Or even have Israeli ancestors. My DH’s family is from Poland but left around 1900 for the US.

Are you at all curious about how Jews got to Poland?

Are you curious about how the Celts got to Ireland?

PP you are responding to - actually I am and have read a bit about the celtic expansion in iron age (?) europe. Halstat culture, IIRC?

However the continental origins of the Irish were mostly forgotten prior to modern scholarship, and seem never to have mattered much to Irish nationalists, who after all were busy creating their own nation state in Ireland. And succeeded in doing so. The early 20th century attempt to create jewish (yiddish) autonomy in Eastern Europe never went beyond essentially cultural autonomy, and it failed. Utterly. Meanwhile it always happened in the context of a Jewish people deeply aware of their roots in the middle east.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a really odd question, Op. My ancestors are from Europe but I have never once had someone suggest that I move back to Europe. I was born in America, this is my country. I'm happy here, why would I want to leave and go live somewhere that I've never even been before?

You posters who keep saying this seem unfamiliar with Israel's Law of Return, or Right of return, which appears to be somewhat unique in all the world.

Not really. Americans could emigrate to many countries, especially DCUM types with professional jobs. Nobody every asks "why don't you emigrate" to everyone in gneral.

I think you are vastly overestimating the ease of immigration by Americans to other developed countries- even dcum types.

Secondly, people ask the latter question all the time - especially to liberals when republicans win elections

And I think you and OP are vastly overestimating the ease of immigration to Israel. Legally, it's may be easier to get the paperwork, but you also have to find a job, find friends, housing, get the money to accomplish an overseas move, find a place to live ... Not all that much harder than going to live in Canada. If an RN for example wanted to move to Canada or Australia, it would not be all that hard. In general, Americans who really want to live abroad can figure out a way to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The vast majority of American Jews were not born in Israel. Relally, OP?

Or even have Israeli ancestors. My DH’s family is from Poland but left around 1900 for the US.

Are you at all curious about how Jews got to Poland?

Are you curious about how the Celts got to Ireland?

Is anyone curious how we all got to America? I’m one of the Jews whose non-Jewish half of the family has been here since the Mayflower and I have relatives killed in an Indian massacre. Lots of messy to stuff to go around.

Yes, and I'm also curious about how the Siberians crossed the Bering Land Bridge to populate North America.

Uh oh.

And what happened to the previous Native Native Americans?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I've been trying to figure out why I'm so bothered by your question. Most Jews don't see ourselves primarily Jews who happen to be living in a country. Many of us see ourselves as Americans who happen to be Jewish. Judaism is a huge part of my identity, but so is being American.

There are as many Jews in America as there are in Israel (sometimes more or pretty close depending on which numbers you use).

Your question shows that you see Jews as an "other" group that doesn't belong here.

+1000

Sorry, OP. You're not getting rid of us that easily.

I don't see this sentiment in the question at all. What I see is someone who doesn't want to be here (doesn't see the US as a home, just an economy) and would leave in a heartbeat if they could, if they had someplace else to go. So they genuinely don't understand why people who DO have someplace to go aren't flocking there.

This.

Actually OP's follow up (admiring "Bibi") indicates that OP is an ethnonationalist. Which leads to the question -- OP if you don't think "minorities" should live in nations, why do you think you should be in the US?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honest question. i'm not jewish but my family is clearly in the US because our home country isn't developed enough. If it was one of the twenty most developed countries in the world, we would leave. The US is an economy, not a home or a civilization.

I'm curious given the option that jewish people have, and israel's economic strength and development, that jewish people choose to stay in the US.

This has probably already been mentioned by the time I post it, but, OP, why are you assuming that Jewish Americans would feel like they belong in Israel? That's really odd. My roots are in the UK and no one has suggested I should want to move to the UK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The vast majority of American Jews were not born in Israel. Relally, OP?

Or even have Israeli ancestors. My DH’s family is from Poland but left around 1900 for the US.

Are you at all curious about how Jews got to Poland?

Are you curious about how the Celts got to Ireland?

Is anyone curious how we all got to America? I’m one of the Jews whose non-Jewish half of the family has been here since the Mayflower and I have relatives killed in an Indian massacre. Lots of messy to stuff to go around.

Yes, and I'm also curious about how the Siberians crossed the Bering Land Bridge to populate North America.

Uh oh.

And what happened to the previous Native Native Americans?

The Siberians were the first to populate North America, ding dong. https://www.futurity.org/dna-native-americans-founding-population-1762572/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a really odd question, Op. My ancestors are from Europe but I have never once had someone suggest that I move back to Europe. I was born in America, this is my country. I'm happy here, why would I want to leave and go live somewhere that I've never even been before?

You posters who keep saying this seem unfamiliar with Israel's Law of Return, or Right of return, which appears to be somewhat unique in all the world.

Not really. Americans could emigrate to many countries, especially DCUM types with professional jobs. Nobody every asks "why don't you emigrate" to everyone in gneral.

I think you are vastly overestimating the ease of immigration by Americans to other developed countries- even dcum types.

Secondly, people ask the latter question all the time - especially to liberals when republicans win elections

And I think you and OP are vastly overestimating the ease of immigration to Israel. Legally, it's may be easier to get the paperwork, but you also have to find a job, find friends, housing, get the money to accomplish an overseas move, find a place to live ... Not all that much harder than going to live in Canada. If an RN for example wanted to move to Canada or Australia, it would not be all that hard. In general, Americans who really want to live abroad can figure out a way to do it.

In many ways moving to Canada (if you have the legal right) would be much easier. Although most Israelis speak some English, not speaking Hebrew can still be isolating, IIUC. The day to day culture is different from anglophone North america, the housing market is very challenging, and real incomes are lower than in Canada.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The vast majority of American Jews were not born in Israel. Relally, OP?

Or even have Israeli ancestors. My DH’s family is from Poland but left around 1900 for the US.

Are you at all curious about how Jews got to Poland?

Are you curious about how the Celts got to Ireland?

PP you are responding to - actually I am and have read a bit about the celtic expansion in iron age (?) europe. Halstat culture, IIRC?

However the continental origins of the Irish were mostly forgotten prior to modern scholarship, and seem never to have mattered much to Irish nationalists, who after all were busy creating their own nation state in Ireland. And succeeded in doing so. The early 20th century attempt to create jewish (yiddish) autonomy in Eastern Europe never went beyond essentially cultural autonomy, and it failed. Utterly. Meanwhile it always happened in the context of a Jewish people deeply aware of their roots in the middle east.

The Galician friends I have are deeply aware of their roots as an ethnic and cultural minority in the Seubi invasion, yet none of them want to return to Germany. I'm not sure what your point is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was born here, my family is here. I’m an American.

OP thinks we’re all secret Israelis.

OP, go back to your MAGA rallies.

I know - it's fascinating that people are criticizing Ilhan Omar for using the expression "dual loyalties" but no one seems to care that Trump referred to Netanyahu before the Republican Jewish Caucus as "your prime minister" and OP seems to think that being Jewish means you would automatically have some kind of affinity for Israel and ought to consider moving there.