If you are Jewish, what stops you from moving to israel?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is mind boggling- the question itself is offensive but the comments from some Jews are the most disturbing part.

How many Jewish responders have actually been to Israel?!?! The country is mostly secular! Tel Aviv is one of the most progressive cities on earth.

I love Israel and have traveled there many times. We have extended family there. When we are older and retired, I’d love to have an apartment in Tel Aviv if I can afford it (doubtful).

Jerusalem is our ancestral homeland and perhaps I will move their one day but life in Israel is different. I’m a 3rd generation American raising American kids paying my American taxes like everyone else. We are as American as you are.

Would you ever ask a Muslim American why they don’t just pick up and move to Mecca or Medina?

I agree and they could be trolls for all we know.

The home country of Mecca and Medina has never espoused the view that they are the rightful home of all living Muslims across the world. If anything Saudi Arabia would prefer Muslims to come for the pilgrimage, pay your respects, and get out so they don't have to share oil revenue with a larger population.

Israel was founded on the premise that it is the place where Jews, no matter their ethnicity and background, belong. Aside from all that - they also extend birthright citizenship to anyone of Jewish descent who can prove a religious/heritage claim.

Kind of hard to argue its the same thing from a Christian or Muslim perspective.

Japan does the same, or did at one point. Do you think all Japanese Americans should emigrate to Japan?

Two vastly different concepts PP.

Japan has always been the continuous homeland and the birthplace of the civilization of Japanese people. It was never anything else. Israel was once the homeland of the Jewish culture (not going to do religion since Christianity was also founded there) and after leaving for over 2,000 years they came back and said 'this is still my home, get out'.

For the record with Japan, I don't think politically its the same concept either. Japanese Americans don't have one of the most powerful lobbying wings in the U.S. which explicitly advocates that Japan be the recipient of the largest amount of aid dollars from the U.S. government on a annual basis. Israel receives billions from the U.S. on the basis of advocacy by Jewish Americans.

Its a weird dichotomy. You don't want to be Israeli, but you want to support Israel to the tune of nearly $4 billion a year. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/total-u-s-foreign-aid-to-israel-1949-present

As the "German" pp immediately above this post, I feel obligated to point out that Israel was set up as a protection state for Jewish people, because there was no Jewish homeland and they were the target of genocide. This is also an important distinction.

Israel doesn't set out to attract all Jews everywhere to emigrate to Israel. Hut they are there if you NEED to. Surely everyone has read about those boats full of jewish refugees, looking for asylum and not finding friendly shores.

Also, pp, the US gives money to its client states. The was literally the cofounder of Israel. We gave enormous support to Germany post war, and we give 5B per anum to Afghanistan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is mind boggling- the question itself is offensive but the comments from some Jews are the most disturbing part.

How many Jewish responders have actually been to Israel?!?! The country is mostly secular! Tel Aviv is one of the most progressive cities on earth.

I love Israel and have traveled there many times. We have extended family there. When we are older and retired, I’d love to have an apartment in Tel Aviv if I can afford it (doubtful).

Jerusalem is our ancestral homeland and perhaps I will move their one day but life in Israel is different. I’m a 3rd generation American raising American kids paying my American taxes like everyone else. We are as American as you are.

Would you ever ask a Muslim American why they don’t just pick up and move to Mecca or Medina?

I agree and they could be trolls for all we know.

The home country of Mecca and Medina has never espoused the view that they are the rightful home of all living Muslims across the world. If anything Saudi Arabia would prefer Muslims to come for the pilgrimage, pay your respects, and get out so they don't have to share oil revenue with a larger population.

Israel was founded on the premise that it is the place where Jews, no matter their ethnicity and background, belong. Aside from all that - they also extend birthright citizenship to anyone of Jewish descent who can prove a religious/heritage claim.

Kind of hard to argue its the same thing from a Christian or Muslim perspective.

Japan does the same, or did at one point. Do you think all Japanese Americans should emigrate to Japan?

Two vastly different concepts PP.

Japan has always been the continuous homeland and the birthplace of the civilization of Japanese people. It was never anything else. Israel was once the homeland of the Jewish culture (not going to do religion since Christianity was also founded there) and after leaving for over 2,000 years they came back and said 'this is still my home, get out'.

For the record with Japan, I don't think politically its the same concept either. Japanese Americans don't have one of the most powerful lobbying wings in the U.S. which explicitly advocates that Japan be the recipient of the largest amount of aid dollars from the U.S. government on a annual basis. Israel receives billions from the U.S. on the basis of advocacy by Jewish Americans.

Its a weird dichotomy. You don't want to be Israeli, but you want to support Israel to the tune of nearly $4 billion a year. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/total-u-s-foreign-aid-to-israel-1949-present

As the "German" pp immediately above this post, I feel obligated to point out that Israel was set up as a protection state for Jewish people, because there was no Jewish homeland and they were the target of genocide. This is also an important distinction.

Israel doesn't set out to attract all Jews everywhere to emigrate to Israel. Hut they are there if you NEED to. Surely everyone has read about those boats full of jewish refugees, looking for asylum and not finding friendly shores.

Also, pp, the US gives money to its client states. The was literally the cofounder of Israel. We gave enormous support to Germany post war, and we give 5B per anum to Afghanistan.

50 years of continuous and escalating support is a little different from temporary (and in Berlin's case - mutual) pacts and agreements the U.S. has with Germany and Afghanistan.

As for the refugee boats, agreed. I had an interesting discussion with an Israeli friend (born and raised) about why Israel chose where it did to locate. In their opinion, Israel would have saved itself a massive headache by requesting a sovereign territory somewhere else...like Alaska.

With the way the Middle East has developed, Israel will be asking for $10 billion in aid annually by 2030. They're like the child that won't leave mom's basement at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is mind boggling- the question itself is offensive but the comments from some Jews are the most disturbing part.

How many Jewish responders have actually been to Israel?!?! The country is mostly secular! Tel Aviv is one of the most progressive cities on earth.

I love Israel and have traveled there many times. We have extended family there. When we are older and retired, I’d love to have an apartment in Tel Aviv if I can afford it (doubtful).

Jerusalem is our ancestral homeland and perhaps I will move their one day but life in Israel is different. I’m a 3rd generation American raising American kids paying my American taxes like everyone else. We are as American as you are.

Would you ever ask a Muslim American why they don’t just pick up and move to Mecca or Medina?

I agree and they could be trolls for all we know.

The home country of Mecca and Medina has never espoused the view that they are the rightful home of all living Muslims across the world. If anything Saudi Arabia would prefer Muslims to come for the pilgrimage, pay your respects, and get out so they don't have to share oil revenue with a larger population.

Israel was founded on the premise that it is the place where Jews, no matter their ethnicity and background, belong. Aside from all that - they also extend birthright citizenship to anyone of Jewish descent who can prove a religious/heritage claim.

Kind of hard to argue its the same thing from a Christian or Muslim perspective.

Japan does the same, or did at one point. Do you think all Japanese Americans should emigrate to Japan?

Two vastly different concepts PP.

Japan has always been the continuous homeland and the birthplace of the civilization of Japanese people. It was never anything else. Israel was once the homeland of the Jewish culture (not going to do religion since Christianity was also founded there) and after leaving for over 2,000 years they came back and said 'this is still my home, get out'.

For the record with Japan, I don't think politically its the same concept either. Japanese Americans don't have one of the most powerful lobbying wings in the U.S. which explicitly advocates that Japan be the recipient of the largest amount of aid dollars from the U.S. government on a annual basis. Israel receives billions from the U.S. on the basis of advocacy by Jewish Americans.

Its a weird dichotomy. You don't want to be Israeli, but you want to support Israel to the tune of nearly $4 billion a year. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/total-u-s-foreign-aid-to-israel-1949-present

As the "German" pp immediately above this post, I feel obligated to point out that Israel was set up as a protection state for Jewish people, because there was no Jewish homeland and they were the target of genocide. This is also an important distinction.

Israel doesn't set out to attract all Jews everywhere to emigrate to Israel. Hut they are there if you NEED to. Surely everyone has read about those boats full of jewish refugees, looking for asylum and not finding friendly shores.

Also, pp, the US gives money to its client states. The was literally the cofounder of Israel. We gave enormous support to Germany post war, and we give 5B per anum to Afghanistan.

50 years of continuous and escalating support is a little different from temporary (and in Berlin's case - mutual) pacts and agreements the U.S. has with Germany and Afghanistan.

As for the refugee boats, agreed. I had an interesting discussion with an Israeli friend (born and raised) about why Israel chose where it did to locate. In their opinion, Israel would have saved itself a massive headache by requesting a sovereign territory somewhere else...like Alaska.

With the way the Middle East has developed, Israel will be asking for $10 billion in aid annually by 2030. They're like the child that won't leave mom's basement at this point.

Should be 71 years of continuous support, which is a correction I can't believe I need to make.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is mind boggling- the question itself is offensive but the comments from some Jews are the most disturbing part.

How many Jewish responders have actually been to Israel?!?! The country is mostly secular! Tel Aviv is one of the most progressive cities on earth.

I love Israel and have traveled there many times. We have extended family there. When we are older and retired, I’d love to have an apartment in Tel Aviv if I can afford it (doubtful).

Jerusalem is our ancestral homeland and perhaps I will move their one day but life in Israel is different. I’m a 3rd generation American raising American kids paying my American taxes like everyone else. We are as American as you are.

Would you ever ask a Muslim American why they don’t just pick up and move to Mecca or Medina?

I agree and they could be trolls for all we know.

The home country of Mecca and Medina has never espoused the view that they are the rightful home of all living Muslims across the world. If anything Saudi Arabia would prefer Muslims to come for the pilgrimage, pay your respects, and get out so they don't have to share oil revenue with a larger population.

Israel was founded on the premise that it is the place where Jews, no matter their ethnicity and background, belong. Aside from all that - they also extend birthright citizenship to anyone of Jewish descent who can prove a religious/heritage claim.

Kind of hard to argue its the same thing from a Christian or Muslim perspective.

Japan does the same, or did at one point. Do you think all Japanese Americans should emigrate to Japan?

Two vastly different concepts PP.

Japan has always been the continuous homeland and the birthplace of the civilization of Japanese people. It was never anything else. Israel was once the homeland of the Jewish culture (not going to do religion since Christianity was also founded there) and after leaving for over 2,000 years they came back and said 'this is still my home, get out'.

For the record with Japan, I don't think politically its the same concept either. Japanese Americans don't have one of the most powerful lobbying wings in the U.S. which explicitly advocates that Japan be the recipient of the largest amount of aid dollars from the U.S. government on a annual basis. Israel receives billions from the U.S. on the basis of advocacy by Jewish Americans.

Its a weird dichotomy. You don't want to be Israeli, but you want to support Israel to the tune of nearly $4 billion a year. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/total-u-s-foreign-aid-to-israel-1949-present

As the "German" pp immediately above this post, I feel obligated to point out that Israel was set up as a protection state for Jewish people, because there was no Jewish homeland and they were the target of genocide. This is also an important distinction.

Israel doesn't set out to attract all Jews everywhere to emigrate to Israel. Hut they are there if you NEED to. Surely everyone has read about those boats full of jewish refugees, looking for asylum and not finding friendly shores.

Also, pp, the US gives money to its client states. The was literally the cofounder of Israel. We gave enormous support to Germany post war, and we give 5B per anum to Afghanistan.

50 years of continuous and escalating support is a little different from temporary (and in Berlin's case - mutual) pacts and agreements the U.S. has with Germany and Afghanistan.

As for the refugee boats, agreed. I had an interesting discussion with an Israeli friend (born and raised) about why Israel chose where it did to locate. In their opinion, Israel would have saved itself a massive headache by requesting a sovereign territory somewhere else...like Alaska.

With the way the Middle East has developed, Israel will be asking for $10 billion in aid annually by 2030. They're like the child that won't leave mom's basement at this point.

I'm the pp you're replying to. Agreed on all points. We put them in bad neighborhood and we are all going to pay for that for centuries to come.

Israel isn't a very good friend to us, we pay out of obligation because of the purpose they serve as a hedge against genocide (although, arguably, the tension created might make it a wash in terms of total deaths). It's like sending my mother in law a monthly check- better than the alternative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you asking this only of Jews and not, say, Canadians or Germans currently living in the U.S.?

Israel is a civilizational country, canada isn't.

You could open up the question to germans though, true.

My father is 100% German. His parents lived in the US (and became citizens) in the 20s, and moved back to Germany for a few years in the early 30s. They barely made it out before WWII. As German-Americans they quickly learned that survival in the US meant dropping their German heritage. My father and his brothers were not taught any German, there were no cultural traditions that were passed down. Nothing. The 40s were not a friendly time for them in the US but they were hell bent on survival and doing well. They did.

All that said: we have no ties to any family left in Germany, I don't think my father ever even met his grandparents, so there's nothing to go back to. We are American.

And you can't go "back" because you have no legal rights to Germany citizenship, so you would have to apply for immigration status in some other way. You can't just move to Germany and decide to become German--it doesn't work that way.

Ireland actually recognizes citizens for up to two generations, with considerations beyond that as well. I have a few 2nd/3rd Generation (cousins)who got citizenship there. In fact op’s original post could probably much more accurately apply to Irish Americans. And many Irish Americans like me are nauseatingly nostalgic about Ireland. Irish traditions like Irish dancing are a big deal here amoung us.

But it’s just romantic nostalgia our parents handed down to us - it doesn’t resemble the modern (or even the past) reality of actually living in Ireland. Irish American is its own culture now for better or worse - it’s different from Irish culture. And the actual Irish I meet are usually annoyed by the version of Ireland that Irish American descendants carry.

The reality is very few immigrants who come to America, even those not intending to stay, end up going back to home countries. And the adult children almost never do. Op, you say you can’t move to your parents’ homeland due to its insecurity but I bet that even if the country turned around tomorrow, you would be unable to shake off your Americanness as easily as you think.

aka 'plastic paddies'.

The percentage of jewish americans who are intimately aware of the political and societal happenings of israel is of much higher magnitude than the percentage of irish americans who know that stuff about ireland.

You are seriously telling me more irish americans (as a percentage) know who the current PM of ireland is, could give a brief overview of the political forces in ireland, describe the GFA, and explain why ireland prefers to use gni over gdp/capita to measure economic success than jewish americans who know those corresponding topics about israel?

no way - not a chance.

Irish Americans not active in Irish politics? Are you kidding me? Americans were a primary source of funding for the IRA to the point where it threatened political relations between England and the US. This continued right up until 9/11. If Ireland came under threat tomorrow no American politician would dare risk the Irish American voting block by suggesting we withdraw support from them. Sorry OP, it sounds to me like you are just looking for lame excuses for your anti-Semitism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is mind boggling- the question itself is offensive but the comments from some Jews are the most disturbing part.

How many Jewish responders have actually been to Israel?!?! The country is mostly secular! Tel Aviv is one of the most progressive cities on earth.

I love Israel and have traveled there many times. We have extended family there. When we are older and retired, I’d love to have an apartment in Tel Aviv if I can afford it (doubtful).

Jerusalem is our ancestral homeland and perhaps I will move their one day but life in Israel is different. I’m a 3rd generation American raising American kids paying my American taxes like everyone else. We are as American as you are.

Would you ever ask a Muslim American why they don’t just pick up and move to Mecca or Medina?

I agree and they could be trolls for all we know.

The home country of Mecca and Medina has never espoused the view that they are the rightful home of all living Muslims across the world. If anything Saudi Arabia would prefer Muslims to come for the pilgrimage, pay your respects, and get out so they don't have to share oil revenue with a larger population.

Israel was founded on the premise that it is the place where Jews, no matter their ethnicity and background, belong. Aside from all that - they also extend birthright citizenship to anyone of Jewish descent who can prove a religious/heritage claim.

Kind of hard to argue its the same thing from a Christian or Muslim perspective.

Japan does the same, or did at one point. Do you think all Japanese Americans should emigrate to Japan?

Two vastly different concepts PP.

Japan has always been the continuous homeland and the birthplace of the civilization of Japanese people. It was never anything else. Israel was once the homeland of the Jewish culture (not going to do religion since Christianity was also founded there) and after leaving for over 2,000 years they came back and said 'this is still my home, get out'.

For the record with Japan, I don't think politically its the same concept either. Japanese Americans don't have one of the most powerful lobbying wings in the U.S. which explicitly advocates that Japan be the recipient of the largest amount of aid dollars from the U.S. government on a annual basis. Israel receives billions from the U.S. on the basis of advocacy by Jewish Americans.

Its a weird dichotomy. You don't want to be Israeli, but you want to support Israel to the tune of nearly $4 billion a year. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/total-u-s-foreign-aid-to-israel-1949-present

Who is this "you"? It's almost like you think Jews are a monolith with foreign allegience based simply on being Jewish ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you asking this only of Jews and not, say, Canadians or Germans currently living in the U.S.?

Israel is a civilizational country, canada isn't.

You could open up the question to germans though, true.

My father is 100% German. His parents lived in the US (and became citizens) in the 20s, and moved back to Germany for a few years in the early 30s. They barely made it out before WWII. As German-Americans they quickly learned that survival in the US meant dropping their German heritage. My father and his brothers were not taught any German, there were no cultural traditions that were passed down. Nothing. The 40s were not a friendly time for them in the US but they were hell bent on survival and doing well. They did.

All that said: we have no ties to any family left in Germany, I don't think my father ever even met his grandparents, so there's nothing to go back to. We are American.

And you can't go "back" because you have no legal rights to Germany citizenship, so you would have to apply for immigration status in some other way. You can't just move to Germany and decide to become German--it doesn't work that way.

Ireland actually recognizes citizens for up to two generations, with considerations beyond that as well. I have a few 2nd/3rd Generation (cousins)who got citizenship there. In fact op’s original post could probably much more accurately apply to Irish Americans. And many Irish Americans like me are nauseatingly nostalgic about Ireland. Irish traditions like Irish dancing are a big deal here amoung us.

But it’s just romantic nostalgia our parents handed down to us - it doesn’t resemble the modern (or even the past) reality of actually living in Ireland. Irish American is its own culture now for better or worse - it’s different from Irish culture. And the actual Irish I meet are usually annoyed by the version of Ireland that Irish American descendants carry.

The reality is very few immigrants who come to America, even those not intending to stay, end up going back to home countries. And the adult children almost never do. Op, you say you can’t move to your parents’ homeland due to its insecurity but I bet that even if the country turned around tomorrow, you would be unable to shake off your Americanness as easily as you think.

aka 'plastic paddies'.

The percentage of jewish americans who are intimately aware of the political and societal happenings of israel is of much higher magnitude than the percentage of irish americans who know that stuff about ireland.

You are seriously telling me more irish americans (as a percentage) know who the current PM of ireland is, could give a brief overview of the political forces in ireland, describe the GFA, and explain why ireland prefers to use gni over gdp/capita to measure economic success than jewish americans who know those corresponding topics about israel?

no way - not a chance.

Irish Americans not active in Irish politics? Are you kidding me? Americans were a primary source of funding for the IRA to the point where it threatened political relations between England and the US. This continued right up until 9/11. If Ireland came under threat tomorrow no American politician would dare risk the Irish American voting block by suggesting we withdraw support from them. Sorry OP, it sounds to me like you are just looking for lame excuses for your anti-Semitism.

+1

[Anonymous]

I'm an American. Born and raised.

[jsteele]

This thread has turned pretty political so probably time to lock it.