If you are Jewish, what stops you from moving to israel?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I prefer living in a secular society that does not discriminate against minorities. So, I will not live in Israel. But, by this definition, I should not be living in America either.

By that definition, what country would be a good choice?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I prefer living in a secular society that does not discriminate against minorities. So, I will not live in Israel. But, by this definition, I should not be living in America either.

By that definition, what country would be a good choice?

I am not really sure. Canada, maybe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you asking this only of Jews and not, say, Canadians or Germans currently living in the U.S.?

Israel is a civilizational country, canada isn't.

You could open up the question to germans though, true.

My father is 100% German. His parents lived in the US (and became citizens) in the 20s, and moved back to Germany for a few years in the early 30s. They barely made it out before WWII. As German-Americans they quickly learned that survival in the US meant dropping their German heritage. My father and his brothers were not taught any German, there were no cultural traditions that were passed down. Nothing. The 40s were not a friendly time for them in the US but they were hell bent on survival and doing well. They did.

All that said: we have no ties to any family left in Germany, I don't think my father ever even met his grandparents, so there's nothing to go back to. We are American.

And you can't go "back" because you have no legal rights to Germany citizenship, so you would have to apply for immigration status in some other way. You can't just move to Germany and decide to become German--it doesn't work that way.

[Anonymous]

I’m Jewish but no one in my family has ever lived in Israel. I disagree with the country’s current politics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I prefer living in a secular society that does not discriminate against minorities. So, I will not live in Israel. But, by this definition, I should not be living in America either.

By that definition, what country would be a good choice?

I am not really sure. Canada, maybe.

Unless you qualify based on their very strict merit-based system, you have no chance of moving to Canada.

Hey, that's quite an idea!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is mind boggling- the question itself is offensive but the comments from some Jews are the most disturbing part.

How many Jewish responders have actually been to Israel?!?! The country is mostly secular! Tel Aviv is one of the most progressive cities on earth.

I love Israel and have traveled there many times. We have extended family there. When we are older and retired, I’d love to have an apartment in Tel Aviv if I can afford it (doubtful).

Jerusalem is our ancestral homeland and perhaps I will move their one day but life in Israel is different. I’m a 3rd generation American raising American kids paying my American taxes like everyone else. We are as American as you are.

Would you ever ask a Muslim American why they don’t just pick up and move to Mecca or Medina?

I agree and they could be trolls for all we know.

The home country of Mecca and Medina has never espoused the view that they are the rightful home of all living Muslims across the world. If anything Saudi Arabia would prefer Muslims to come for the pilgrimage, pay your respects, and get out so they don't have to share oil revenue with a larger population.

Israel was founded on the premise that it is the place where Jews, no matter their ethnicity and background, belong. Aside from all that - they also extend birthright citizenship to anyone of Jewish descent who can prove a religious/heritage claim.

Kind of hard to argue its the same thing from a Christian or Muslim perspective.

You are out of your cotton picking mind, troll.

Find some research that says Saudi Arabia is willing to give every Muslim in the world (from Indonesians to Canadians) citizenship as long as they can prove a Muslim familial background. You can't. That's just facts.

signed,

not a troll

Who needs a research when we have statistics available, troll? Muslin countries have 95%-97% of Muslim population. It doesn't get more solid then that.
Christians have to pay Jizya tax - a an epitome of discrimination - to live in a Muslim country and they are oppressed every step of the way.

Israel was founded with a special purpose - to allow Jewish people to restore their population after Holocaust and to get them back on their land that they lost centuries ago.

Muslims don't have to pay any discriminating tax to live in Israel. Palestinians have been leeching on Israel for decades using all benefits available to Jews.
Yeh, Jews are bad.
Thanks Muslims' brownnoser Obama.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you asking this only of Jews and not, say, Canadians or Germans currently living in the U.S.?

Israel is a civilizational country, canada isn't.

You could open up the question to germans though, true.

My father is 100% German. His parents lived in the US (and became citizens) in the 20s, and moved back to Germany for a few years in the early 30s. They barely made it out before WWII. As German-Americans they quickly learned that survival in the US meant dropping their German heritage. My father and his brothers were not taught any German, there were no cultural traditions that were passed down. Nothing. The 40s were not a friendly time for them in the US but they were hell bent on survival and doing well. They did.

All that said: we have no ties to any family left in Germany, I don't think my father ever even met his grandparents, so there's nothing to go back to. We are American.

And you can't go "back" because you have no legal rights to Germany citizenship, so you would have to apply for immigration status in some other way. You can't just move to Germany and decide to become German--it doesn't work that way.

A little bit more complicated.

You can't go back if you are from the USA. If you are from eastern europe though ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return#Germany

[Anonymous]

No ties to Israel. My family came before the war and right after. None have lived there. I don't get the question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was born here, my family is here. I’m an American.

+1. I'm American, not Israeli. Assuming Jews = Israeli is like assuming all Catholics should move to Italy and/or the Vatican.

Additionally, I have no desire to live in a country where religion plays a strong, sanctioned role in government. Even if that religion is my own. I strongly support the separation of church and state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is mind boggling- the question itself is offensive but the comments from some Jews are the most disturbing part.

How many Jewish responders have actually been to Israel?!?! The country is mostly secular! Tel Aviv is one of the most progressive cities on earth.

I love Israel and have traveled there many times. We have extended family there. When we are older and retired, I’d love to have an apartment in Tel Aviv if I can afford it (doubtful).

Jerusalem is our ancestral homeland and perhaps I will move their one day but life in Israel is different. I’m a 3rd generation American raising American kids paying my American taxes like everyone else. We are as American as you are.

Would you ever ask a Muslim American why they don’t just pick up and move to Mecca or Medina?

I agree and they could be trolls for all we know.

The home country of Mecca and Medina has never espoused the view that they are the rightful home of all living Muslims across the world. If anything Saudi Arabia would prefer Muslims to come for the pilgrimage, pay your respects, and get out so they don't have to share oil revenue with a larger population.

Israel was founded on the premise that it is the place where Jews, no matter their ethnicity and background, belong. Aside from all that - they also extend birthright citizenship to anyone of Jewish descent who can prove a religious/heritage claim.

Kind of hard to argue its the same thing from a Christian or Muslim perspective.

Japan does the same, or did at one point. Do you think all Japanese Americans should emigrate to Japan?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The vast majority of American Jews were not born in Israel. Relally, OP?

Or even have Israeli ancestors. My DH’s family is from Poland but left around 1900 for the US.

Are you at all curious about how Jews got to Poland?

Are you curious about how the Celts got to Ireland?

PP you are responding to - actually I am and have read a bit about the celtic expansion in iron age (?) europe. Halstat culture, IIRC?

However the continental origins of the Irish were mostly forgotten prior to modern scholarship, and seem never to have mattered much to Irish nationalists, who after all were busy creating their own nation state in Ireland. And succeeded in doing so. The early 20th century attempt to create jewish (yiddish) autonomy in Eastern Europe never went beyond essentially cultural autonomy, and it failed. Utterly. Meanwhile it always happened in the context of a Jewish people deeply aware of their roots in the middle east.

The Galician friends I have are deeply aware of their roots as an ethnic and cultural minority in the Seubi invasion, yet none of them want to return to Germany. I'm not sure what your point is.

That Jews A. Mostly are descended from people who originiated in the land of Israel B. Many of them (including secular Zionists, but certainly anyone with any attachment to Jewish scriptures and traditional Jewish liturgy) have a connection to the land of Israel.

Passover is coming. No one will end thei seder with "Next Year, in Warsaw!"

All Muslims are supposed to perform the Hajj at least once in their lifetime but most of them aren't picking up and moving to Mecca. No one I know takes "Next year in Jerusalem" literally. We could all go visit, but out of my enormous extended family, only two have ever been to Israel. My uncle moved to Israel after high school and served in the Israeli army for a few years. Then he moved back to the US, married a lapsed Catholic, and is now pretty damn secular. My sister went on a Birthright trip and came back saying it was amazing but full of propaganda. I don't know anyone who actually wants to move there. There really is nothing lacking in our lives as Americans, for which we are thankful. As another PP pointed out, as non-Orthodox Jews (we are Conservative), we probably have more freedom to practice Judaism as we see fit in the US versus in Israel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you asking this only of Jews and not, say, Canadians or Germans currently living in the U.S.?

Israel is a civilizational country, canada isn't.

You could open up the question to germans though, true.

My father is 100% German. His parents lived in the US (and became citizens) in the 20s, and moved back to Germany for a few years in the early 30s. They barely made it out before WWII. As German-Americans they quickly learned that survival in the US meant dropping their German heritage. My father and his brothers were not taught any German, there were no cultural traditions that were passed down. Nothing. The 40s were not a friendly time for them in the US but they were hell bent on survival and doing well. They did.

All that said: we have no ties to any family left in Germany, I don't think my father ever even met his grandparents, so there's nothing to go back to. We are American.

And you can't go "back" because you have no legal rights to Germany citizenship, so you would have to apply for immigration status in some other way. You can't just move to Germany and decide to become German--it doesn't work that way.

Ireland actually recognizes citizens for up to two generations, with considerations beyond that as well. I have a few 2nd/3rd Generation (cousins)who got citizenship there. In fact op’s original post could probably much more accurately apply to Irish Americans. And many Irish Americans like me are nauseatingly nostalgic about Ireland. Irish traditions like Irish dancing are a big deal here amoung us.

But it’s just romantic nostalgia our parents handed down to us - it doesn’t resemble the modern (or even the past) reality of actually living in Ireland. Irish American is its own culture now for better or worse - it’s different from Irish culture. And the actual Irish I meet are usually annoyed by the version of Ireland that Irish American descendants carry.

The reality is very few immigrants who come to America, even those not intending to stay, end up going back to home countries. And the adult children almost never do. Op, you say you can’t move to your parents’ homeland due to its insecurity but I bet that even if the country turned around tomorrow, you would be unable to shake off your Americanness as easily as you think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you asking this only of Jews and not, say, Canadians or Germans currently living in the U.S.?

Israel is a civilizational country, canada isn't.

You could open up the question to germans though, true.

My father is 100% German. His parents lived in the US (and became citizens) in the 20s, and moved back to Germany for a few years in the early 30s. They barely made it out before WWII. As German-Americans they quickly learned that survival in the US meant dropping their German heritage. My father and his brothers were not taught any German, there were no cultural traditions that were passed down. Nothing. The 40s were not a friendly time for them in the US but they were hell bent on survival and doing well. They did.

All that said: we have no ties to any family left in Germany, I don't think my father ever even met his grandparents, so there's nothing to go back to. We are American.

And you can't go "back" because you have no legal rights to Germany citizenship, so you would have to apply for immigration status in some other way. You can't just move to Germany and decide to become German--it doesn't work that way.

Ireland actually recognizes citizens for up to two generations, with considerations beyond that as well. I have a few 2nd/3rd Generation (cousins)who got citizenship there. In fact op’s original post could probably much more accurately apply to Irish Americans. And many Irish Americans like me are nauseatingly nostalgic about Ireland. Irish traditions like Irish dancing are a big deal here amoung us.

But it’s just romantic nostalgia our parents handed down to us - it doesn’t resemble the modern (or even the past) reality of actually living in Ireland. Irish American is its own culture now for better or worse - it’s different from Irish culture. And the actual Irish I meet are usually annoyed by the version of Ireland that Irish American descendants carry.

The reality is very few immigrants who come to America, even those not intending to stay, end up going back to home countries. And the adult children almost never do. Op, you say you can’t move to your parents’ homeland due to its insecurity but I bet that even if the country turned around tomorrow, you would be unable to shake off your Americanness as easily as you think.

aka 'plastic paddies'.

The percentage of jewish americans who are intimately aware of the political and societal happenings of israel is of much higher magnitude than the percentage of irish americans who know that stuff about ireland.

You are seriously telling me more irish americans (as a percentage) know who the current PM of ireland is, could give a brief overview of the political forces in ireland, describe the GFA, and explain why ireland prefers to use gni over gdp/capita to measure economic success than jewish americans who know those corresponding topics about israel?

no way - not a chance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you asking this only of Jews and not, say, Canadians or Germans currently living in the U.S.?

Israel is a civilizational country, canada isn't.

You could open up the question to germans though, true.

My father is 100% German. His parents lived in the US (and became citizens) in the 20s, and moved back to Germany for a few years in the early 30s. They barely made it out before WWII. As German-Americans they quickly learned that survival in the US meant dropping their German heritage. My father and his brothers were not taught any German, there were no cultural traditions that were passed down. Nothing. The 40s were not a friendly time for them in the US but they were hell bent on survival and doing well. They did.

All that said: we have no ties to any family left in Germany, I don't think my father ever even met his grandparents, so there's nothing to go back to. We are American.

I'm ethnically mostly German married to an actual German/American DH. DH was a dual citizen but renounced his German citizenship.

In our case, we have friends and immediate family in Germany, we both speak German and DH was educated in Germany. But why wouldn't we move there? Because we identify as American, and want to live in and contribute to the US. We want our kids to be American. This concept that being American is a secondary identity to your ancestry is ridiculous. It's a primary identity. Most jewish people have an even more tenuous connection to israel than we do to Germany, so it's odd to me that anyone would assume they want to MOVE there. They already live in the best country in the world! #america!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is mind boggling- the question itself is offensive but the comments from some Jews are the most disturbing part.

How many Jewish responders have actually been to Israel?!?! The country is mostly secular! Tel Aviv is one of the most progressive cities on earth.

I love Israel and have traveled there many times. We have extended family there. When we are older and retired, I’d love to have an apartment in Tel Aviv if I can afford it (doubtful).

Jerusalem is our ancestral homeland and perhaps I will move their one day but life in Israel is different. I’m a 3rd generation American raising American kids paying my American taxes like everyone else. We are as American as you are.

Would you ever ask a Muslim American why they don’t just pick up and move to Mecca or Medina?

I agree and they could be trolls for all we know.

The home country of Mecca and Medina has never espoused the view that they are the rightful home of all living Muslims across the world. If anything Saudi Arabia would prefer Muslims to come for the pilgrimage, pay your respects, and get out so they don't have to share oil revenue with a larger population.

Israel was founded on the premise that it is the place where Jews, no matter their ethnicity and background, belong. Aside from all that - they also extend birthright citizenship to anyone of Jewish descent who can prove a religious/heritage claim.

Kind of hard to argue its the same thing from a Christian or Muslim perspective.

Japan does the same, or did at one point. Do you think all Japanese Americans should emigrate to Japan?

Two vastly different concepts PP.

Japan has always been the continuous homeland and the birthplace of the civilization of Japanese people. It was never anything else. Israel was once the homeland of the Jewish culture (not going to do religion since Christianity was also founded there) and after leaving for over 2,000 years they came back and said 'this is still my home, get out'.

For the record with Japan, I don't think politically its the same concept either. Japanese Americans don't have one of the most powerful lobbying wings in the U.S. which explicitly advocates that Japan be the recipient of the largest amount of aid dollars from the U.S. government on a annual basis. Israel receives billions from the U.S. on the basis of advocacy by Jewish Americans.

Its a weird dichotomy. You don't want to be Israeli, but you want to support Israel to the tune of nearly $4 billion a year. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/total-u-s-foreign-aid-to-israel-1949-present