How does MCPS determine race/ethnicity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Here's a perfect example -- my preschool-aged and early elementary DDs both love reading books and going to the library. We'll probably do it tomorrow, like we do on many Saturdays. We've been to many libraries all over MoCo, and every time we've gone, the kids section is mostly white and Asian kids. Where are the black and hispanic kids? Hispanics outnumber whites in MCPS, so I'd expect to see a lot of them at the library.

Have you considered the problem is your highly segregated neighborhood? I'm going to take my kids to the downtown Silver Spring library today, like we do many Saturdays. I expect to find my children to be some of the only white children in the building, as they are most Saturdays. The majority of the kids at the library will be Black, and most of those will be first and second generation immigrants.

I'm sure the other parents at the Silver Spring library are wondering where the white kids are, and assuming that white families just don't value education as much as they do.

So these are immigrant black families not long-term AA? Is that what you are saying?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not try to elevate everyone by 10%? Every group will get better that way.

I understand that it won't narrow the achievement gap, but why are we focusing on achievement gap to start with.

Why not try to push the top group and the bottom group at the same time even if achievement gap remains the same?

AGREE completely. MCPS should focus on showing progression for each student. It would make so much more sense.

TRying to close the achievement gap is misguided at best, hugely detrimental at worse.

Here's what you're saying: as long as every student is learning something, it's fine with me for white, Asian-American, and non-poor students, as a group, to do better in school than other groups.

Nope. That’s not what I’m saying.

Figure out where a kid is starting and show PROGRESS from that level.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not try to elevate everyone by 10%? Every group will get better that way.

I understand that it won't narrow the achievement gap, but why are we focusing on achievement gap to start with.

Why not try to push the top group and the bottom group at the same time even if achievement gap remains the same?

AGREE completely. MCPS should focus on showing progression for each student. It would make so much more sense.

TRying to close the achievement gap is misguided at best, hugely detrimental at worse.

Here's what you're saying: as long as every student is learning something, it's fine with me for white, Asian-American, and non-poor students, as a group, to do better in school than other groups.

Not the PP, but you are misunderstanding the point raised by posters. MCPS should aim to elevate everyone from their current level. Each child should get attention and some child should more attention which they already get in terms of Tile 1/Focus/FARMs etc.

Everyone at 50% efficiency with zero achievement gap is not a better outcome than one group at 90% and other group at 70%.

It should be an aim that each child gets EQUAL attention during teacher instruction time no matter what performance level, SES or race.

The goal should be appropriate time, not equal because some kids will need less instruction and some will need more. If your non-Hispanic kid and mine are in the same Spanish 2 class, mine will need less time to grasp the same material because mine sometimes speaks Spanish at home and has also studied another Romance language for years. It would be unfair to give your child and mine exactly the same amount of time and then claim your child is dragging down the rigor of the class.

Well that’s the opposite of every private or catholic school out there. Kids under 18 of every academic ability thrive more with teaching to potential and attention, feedback, challenges, in depth projects. Don’t kid yourself that putting top quartile k-12 students on the self-teach route is the definition if a “good school.” That’s BS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Here's a perfect example -- my preschool-aged and early elementary DDs both love reading books and going to the library. We'll probably do it tomorrow, like we do on many Saturdays. We've been to many libraries all over MoCo, and every time we've gone, the kids section is mostly white and Asian kids. Where are the black and hispanic kids? Hispanics outnumber whites in MCPS, so I'd expect to see a lot of them at the library.

Have you considered the problem is your highly segregated neighborhood? I'm going to take my kids to the downtown Silver Spring library today, like we do many Saturdays. I expect to find my children to be some of the only white children in the building, as they are most Saturdays. The majority of the kids at the library will be Black, and most of those will be first and second generation immigrants.

I'm sure the other parents at the Silver Spring library are wondering where the white kids are, and assuming that white families just don't value education as much as they do.

Yes, I"ve taken my DDs to a fairly broad number of libraries, at least downcounty -- Rockville, Aspen Hill, Silver Spring, Potomac, Chevy Chase, Bethesda, Little Falls, Davis, Noyes (Kensington). Always the same -- the majority of kids in the childrens section are white or Asian. I get this for Potomac and Little Falls.. but Silver Spring, Noyes, and Aspen Hill?

I know you can say I expect everyone to appreciate the library but... isn't reading kind of a fundamental life skill, and libraries a great place to develop that? It's not like I'm complaining about who I see on the lacrosse field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Here's a perfect example -- my preschool-aged and early elementary DDs both love reading books and going to the library. We'll probably do it tomorrow, like we do on many Saturdays. We've been to many libraries all over MoCo, and every time we've gone, the kids section is mostly white and Asian kids. Where are the black and hispanic kids? Hispanics outnumber whites in MCPS, so I'd expect to see a lot of them at the library.

Have you considered the problem is your highly segregated neighborhood? I'm going to take my kids to the downtown Silver Spring library today, like we do many Saturdays. I expect to find my children to be some of the only white children in the building, as they are most Saturdays. The majority of the kids at the library will be Black, and most of those will be first and second generation immigrants.

I'm sure the other parents at the Silver Spring library are wondering where the white kids are, and assuming that white families just don't value education as much as they do.

Yes, I"ve taken my DDs to a fairly broad number of libraries, at least downcounty -- Rockville, Aspen Hill, Silver Spring, Potomac, Chevy Chase, Bethesda, Little Falls, Davis, Noyes (Kensington). Always the same -- the majority of kids in the childrens section are white or Asian. I get this for Potomac and Little Falls.. but Silver Spring, Noyes, and Aspen Hill?

I know you can say I expect everyone to appreciate the library but... isn't reading kind of a fundamental life skill, and libraries a great place to develop that? It's not like I'm complaining about who I see on the lacrosse field.

Not my experience at Silver Spring or Aspen Hill. I’ve only been in Noyes midday on a week day, so I can’t speak to a non-nannied or SAHMed child population.

However, there are many AA and Latino kids in academic extracurricular activities even if you don’t personally see them. Sometimes I purposely select a bookstore in a majority AA area to give my child a chance to hear an author with our background or just get a break from being a minority in a society that thinks black kids don’t read. My child doesn’t have to perform in public for the benefit of eradicating your ignorance.

[Anonymous]

Lots of private school kids in silver spring too. Maybe they’re the ones at the libraries

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Here's a perfect example -- my preschool-aged and early elementary DDs both love reading books and going to the library. We'll probably do it tomorrow, like we do on many Saturdays. We've been to many libraries all over MoCo, and every time we've gone, the kids section is mostly white and Asian kids. Where are the black and hispanic kids? Hispanics outnumber whites in MCPS, so I'd expect to see a lot of them at the library.

Have you considered the problem is your highly segregated neighborhood? I'm going to take my kids to the downtown Silver Spring library today, like we do many Saturdays. I expect to find my children to be some of the only white children in the building, as they are most Saturdays. The majority of the kids at the library will be Black, and most of those will be first and second generation immigrants.

I'm sure the other parents at the Silver Spring library are wondering where the white kids are, and assuming that white families just don't value education as much as they do.

So these are immigrant black families not long-term AA? Is that what you are saying?

No, not exactly. The neighborhood around Silver Spring library is largely first generation immigrants, not established African American communities. As a result, that split is reflected in who uses the local, walkable, municipal services.

The point is that PP's neighborhood is almost certainly predominantly white and Asian, so she only sees white and Asian families at the library. The Silver Spring library is predominantly Black, with a heavy emphasis on Eastern African immigrants. Hence, that's who is most often seen at the public library.

The point is that PP needs to get out of her highly segregated bubble. Black families in Silver Spring don't assume that white families don't value education just becuase they aren't at the Silver Spring library. In fact, I doubt they give it much thought at all. Whereas PP thinks she can make sweeping generalizations about whether Black and Latino families go to the library, based solely on her own highly segregated neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lots of private school kids in silver spring too. Maybe they’re the ones at the libraries

This is such an interesting microcosm of racist thought.

Racist Assertion 1: There are no Black or brown kids at the library because their families don't care enough.

People in the Neighborhood: Actually, there are lots of Black and brown kids at the libraries near me. Maybe the problem is your neighborhood.

Racist Assertion 2: Oh, but those are probably not PUBLIC school kids.


It's like....the goalposts keep moving to placate some ridiculous and untrue stereotypes about who is an is not an involved and interested parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of private school kids in silver spring too. Maybe they’re the ones at the libraries

This is such an interesting microcosm of racist thought.

Racist Assertion 1: There are no Black or brown kids at the library because their families don't care enough.

People in the Neighborhood: Actually, there are lots of Black and brown kids at the libraries near me. Maybe the problem is your neighborhood.

Racist Assertion 2: Oh, but those are probably not PUBLIC school kids.


It's like....the goalposts keep moving to placate some ridiculous and untrue stereotypes about who is an is not an involved and interested parent.

Yep. Now imagine that this is your daily experience growing up as a black or brown kid. How stressful and discouraging that would feel. How that might make it much riskier to raise your hand in class or enroll in a more challenging course. In this culture despite it being 2019, my skin color + gender signifies not highly education or a person with authority. I have to establish my credentials to get people to listen in a way that a white male typically does not. That has been my experience since enrolling in a predominantly white institution at age 13. And it never seems to end. It’s distracting and exhausting when I have to venture from my work site to interact with other professionals in my field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of private school kids in silver spring too. Maybe they’re the ones at the libraries

This is such an interesting microcosm of racist thought.

Racist Assertion 1: There are no Black or brown kids at the library because their families don't care enough.

People in the Neighborhood: Actually, there are lots of Black and brown kids at the libraries near me. Maybe the problem is your neighborhood.

Racist Assertion 2: Oh, but those are probably not PUBLIC school kids.


It's like....the goalposts keep moving to placate some ridiculous and untrue stereotypes about who is an is not an involved and interested parent.

Wake up. It’s the educated black AA families in that area that go to private schools as URMS. They don’t want to run the risk that (a) any teachers lump their hard working kids with the poor performers and (b) poor performers latch on or bully their good performer. It’s a tough culture to play both sides when a teen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Here's a perfect example -- my preschool-aged and early elementary DDs both love reading books and going to the library. We'll probably do it tomorrow, like we do on many Saturdays. We've been to many libraries all over MoCo, and every time we've gone, the kids section is mostly white and Asian kids. Where are the black and hispanic kids? Hispanics outnumber whites in MCPS, so I'd expect to see a lot of them at the library.

Have you considered the problem is your highly segregated neighborhood? I'm going to take my kids to the downtown Silver Spring library today, like we do many Saturdays. I expect to find my children to be some of the only white children in the building, as they are most Saturdays. The majority of the kids at the library will be Black, and most of those will be first and second generation immigrants.

I'm sure the other parents at the Silver Spring library are wondering where the white kids are, and assuming that white families just don't value education as much as they do.

So these are immigrant black families not long-term AA? Is that what you are saying?

No, not exactly. The neighborhood around Silver Spring library is largely first generation immigrants, not established African American communities. As a result, that split is reflected in who uses the local, walkable, municipal services.

The point is that PP's neighborhood is almost certainly predominantly white and Asian, so she only sees white and Asian families at the library. The Silver Spring library is predominantly Black, with a heavy emphasis on Eastern African immigrants. Hence, that's who is most often seen at the public library.

The point is that PP needs to get out of her highly segregated bubble. Black families in Silver Spring don't assume that white families don't value education just becuase they aren't at the Silver Spring library. In fact, I doubt they give it much thought at all. Whereas PP thinks she can make sweeping generalizations about whether Black and Latino families go to the library, based solely on her own highly segregated neighborhood.

Nice try. Maybe you need to hang out with African Americans not immigrants from Africa or the Caribbean. There are whole colleges and majors devoted to the differences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Here's a perfect example -- my preschool-aged and early elementary DDs both love reading books and going to the library. We'll probably do it tomorrow, like we do on many Saturdays. We've been to many libraries all over MoCo, and every time we've gone, the kids section is mostly white and Asian kids. Where are the black and hispanic kids? Hispanics outnumber whites in MCPS, so I'd expect to see a lot of them at the library.

Have you considered the problem is your highly segregated neighborhood? I'm going to take my kids to the downtown Silver Spring library today, like we do many Saturdays. I expect to find my children to be some of the only white children in the building, as they are most Saturdays. The majority of the kids at the library will be Black, and most of those will be first and second generation immigrants.

I'm sure the other parents at the Silver Spring library are wondering where the white kids are, and assuming that white families just don't value education as much as they do.

So these are immigrant black families not long-term AA? Is that what you are saying?

I go to the library and I am typically one of the only white families there. Lots of black and Hispanic people at my library.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not try to elevate everyone by 10%? Every group will get better that way.

I understand that it won't narrow the achievement gap, but why are we focusing on achievement gap to start with.

Why not try to push the top group and the bottom group at the same time even if achievement gap remains the same?

AGREE completely. MCPS should focus on showing progression for each student. It would make so much more sense.

TRying to close the achievement gap is misguided at best, hugely detrimental at worse.

Here's what you're saying: as long as every student is learning something, it's fine with me for white, Asian-American, and non-poor students, as a group, to do better in school than other groups.

Yeah talk about white supremacy right there.

Or the tyranny of low expectations. Shouldn't mcps want all of their children to succeed? Or just assume that if you are Black or Hispanic or you speak a different language or you're poor that you're just going to be a c student and be happy with that

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of private school kids in silver spring too. Maybe they’re the ones at the libraries

This is such an interesting microcosm of racist thought.

Racist Assertion 1: There are no Black or brown kids at the library because their families don't care enough.

People in the Neighborhood: Actually, there are lots of Black and brown kids at the libraries near me. Maybe the problem is your neighborhood.

Racist Assertion 2: Oh, but those are probably not PUBLIC school kids.


It's like....the goalposts keep moving to placate some ridiculous and untrue stereotypes about who is an is not an involved and interested parent.

Wake up. It’s the educated black AA families in that area that go to private schools as URMS. They don’t want to run the risk that (a) any teachers lump their hard working kids with the poor performers and (b) poor performers latch on or bully their good performer. It’s a tough culture to play both sides when a teen.

Plenty of educated AA families in SS send their kids to TPMS, SSIMS, and on to Blair or Northwood. We are one of those families. And when my DC was in private, there were Nigerian, Ethiopian, Haitian, Jamaican, and Guyanese among other immigrant black families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not try to elevate everyone by 10%? Every group will get better that way.

I understand that it won't narrow the achievement gap, but why are we focusing on achievement gap to start with.

Why not try to push the top group and the bottom group at the same time even if achievement gap remains the same?

AGREE completely. MCPS should focus on showing progression for each student. It would make so much more sense.

Trying to close the achievement gap is misguided at best, hugely detrimental at worse.

I agree as well. Instead of paying more consultants and researchers to do studies, let's focus on very small class sizes at ESs with 30% or more low income students. MS and HS is more complex. Students who are on grade level in their native language can focus on college readiness with instructional supports in english language. Students who are not on grade level in their native language (and English speaking students who are not on grade level), should be given instructional supports with a heavy focus on getting a diploma/GED and career readiness after graduation. These students and their families need wrap around supports including health care, affordable housing, English language instruction, food bank etc., etc., etc.

None of this is cheap or easy, but, if we had realistic goals of incremental academic progression (along with smaller classroom sizes and more academic support staff) teachers and administrators could celebrate successes with all their students.

I work in social services and incremental change does not show enough "impact" for policymakers, funders, and the general public. It just does not make for a sexy headline.