How does MCPS determine race/ethnicity?

[Anonymous]

Here's a perfect example -- my preschool-aged and early elementary DDs both love reading books and going to the library. We'll probably do it tomorrow, like we do on many Saturdays. We've been to many libraries all over MoCo, and every time we've gone, the kids section is mostly white and Asian kids. Where are the black and hispanic kids? Hispanics outnumber whites in MCPS, so I'd expect to see a lot of them at the library.

Have you considered the problem is your highly segregated neighborhood? I'm going to take my kids to the downtown Silver Spring library today, like we do many Saturdays. I expect to find my children to be some of the only white children in the building, as they are most Saturdays. The majority of the kids at the library will be Black, and most of those will be first and second generation immigrants.

I'm sure the other parents at the Silver Spring library are wondering where the white kids are, and assuming that white families just don't value education as much as they do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


+1000
Books are truly an invaluable resource. As a weekly visitor of the library I see this trend as well. If you want to be around more Asian and White kids, it’s the place to be. I’d like to see more AA and Hispanic families take advantage of this free and open access. They offer tons of programs during the school year as well as during the summer. This totally beats Chuckee Cheese.

Huh. I see plenty of non-white, non-Asian-American people at my library. In fact, most of the people at the library look like they're not white or Asian-American. Maybe your local library is an area where there aren't a lot of people who aren't white or Asian-American? Maybe you should get out into the rest of the county more?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why not try to elevate everyone by 10%? Every group will get better that way.

I understand that it won't narrow the achievement gap, but why are we focusing on achievement gap to start with.

Why not try to push the top group and the bottom group at the same time even if achievement gap remains the same?

AGREE completely. MCPS should focus on showing progression for each student. It would make so much more sense.

TRying to close the achievement gap is misguided at best, hugely detrimental at worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Here's a perfect example -- my preschool-aged and early elementary DDs both love reading books and going to the library. We'll probably do it tomorrow, like we do on many Saturdays. We've been to many libraries all over MoCo, and every time we've gone, the kids section is mostly white and Asian kids. Where are the black and hispanic kids? Hispanics outnumber whites in MCPS, so I'd expect to see a lot of them at the library.

Have you considered the problem is your highly segregated neighborhood? I'm going to take my kids to the downtown Silver Spring library today, like we do many Saturdays. I expect to find my children to be some of the only white children in the building, as they are most Saturdays. The majority of the kids at the library will be Black, and most of those will be first and second generation immigrants.

I'm sure the other parents at the Silver Spring library are wondering where the white kids are, and assuming that white families just don't value education as much as they do.

This!

We are walking distance to that same library. But we aren’t white. When we go to the library on Arcola instead, the kids are mainly Latino.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not try to elevate everyone by 10%? Every group will get better that way.

I understand that it won't narrow the achievement gap, but why are we focusing on achievement gap to start with.

Why not try to push the top group and the bottom group at the same time even if achievement gap remains the same?

AGREE completely. MCPS should focus on showing progression for each student. It would make so much more sense.

TRying to close the achievement gap is misguided at best, hugely detrimental at worse.

Here's what you're saying: as long as every student is learning something, it's fine with me for white, Asian-American, and non-poor students, as a group, to do better in school than other groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not try to elevate everyone by 10%? Every group will get better that way.

I understand that it won't narrow the achievement gap, but why are we focusing on achievement gap to start with.

Why not try to push the top group and the bottom group at the same time even if achievement gap remains the same?

Because it isn’t really an achievement gap so much as an opportunity gap. Lots of gifted and talented ES students of color are not being encouraged and mentored, or even informed of opportunities. That has not changed in the 16 years I’ve taught here or the twenty years I have had children of color enrolled in MCPS.

Well then MCPS should focus on informing and encouraging AA and Hispanics to not have opportunity gap. I am not using children of color because many Asians are children of colors, but MCPS seems to bracket them with white.

Why do you assume that isn’t happening?

What we see now is that certain people start absolutely flipping out when AA and Hispanic kids start showing up at those opportunities. They decided particular schools and programs were for them only. When they see AA and Hispanic students they are sure that the students of color took a seat they didn’t earn or that MCPS must be watering down the program if the students of color did qualify.

Do you know the rate at which AA or Hispanics students drop out of MCPS magnet programs? They may “qualify” but do they thrive in these programs?

Observing one school that had 5 students leave this year: 1 was white. 1 was AA. 1 was Asian. 1 Latino/white. 1 Asian/white. Based on this, I’d predict that Asian and white students are more likely to drop out than AA or Latino students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not try to elevate everyone by 10%? Every group will get better that way.

I understand that it won't narrow the achievement gap, but why are we focusing on achievement gap to start with.

Why not try to push the top group and the bottom group at the same time even if achievement gap remains the same?

AGREE completely. MCPS should focus on showing progression for each student. It would make so much more sense.

TRying to close the achievement gap is misguided at best, hugely detrimental at worse.

I fully agree and have been saying this for years as an ESOL teacher in a Title 1 school. Our students make great progress from where they started, but they're not always going to meet benchmark. It's demoralizing for the student and the staff who put in so much effort and just keep being told that progress doesn't count, only proficiency. I've had students arrive who are illiterate in their native language and then increase two ESOL levels in a year as well as learn to read and write in English, but they still don't meet the proficiency benchmarks so our work and their work is considered a failure in the eyes of central office and admin. Same for a kid in foster care who has never attended school regularly and was 3 years below grade level, but made 2 years worth of progress in 1 year but is also considered a failure. We have to meet kids where they are and celebrate their successes. Not every kid starts at the same place. Central office and admin treat kids like widgets instead of humans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not try to elevate everyone by 10%? Every group will get better that way.

I understand that it won't narrow the achievement gap, but why are we focusing on achievement gap to start with.

Why not try to push the top group and the bottom group at the same time even if achievement gap remains the same?

AGREE completely. MCPS should focus on showing progression for each student. It would make so much more sense.

TRying to close the achievement gap is misguided at best, hugely detrimental at worse.

I fully agree and have been saying this for years as an ESOL teacher in a Title 1 school. Our students make great progress from where they started, but they're not always going to meet benchmark. It's demoralizing for the student and the staff who put in so much effort and just keep being told that progress doesn't count, only proficiency. I've had students arrive who are illiterate in their native language and then increase two ESOL levels in a year as well as learn to read and write in English, but they still don't meet the proficiency benchmarks so our work and their work is considered a failure in the eyes of central office and admin. Same for a kid in foster care who has never attended school regularly and was 3 years below grade level, but made 2 years worth of progress in 1 year but is also considered a failure. We have to meet kids where they are and celebrate their successes. Not every kid starts at the same place. Central office and admin treat kids like widgets instead of humans.

+100

Special Ed teachers say this all the time. They’re doing ridiculous evaluations that the County/State require that are ultimately useless and demoralizing.

It would be useful to track student scores over time and have that be how we judge school performance. NOT focusing on race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not try to elevate everyone by 10%? Every group will get better that way.

I understand that it won't narrow the achievement gap, but why are we focusing on achievement gap to start with.

Why not try to push the top group and the bottom group at the same time even if achievement gap remains the same?

AGREE completely. MCPS should focus on showing progression for each student. It would make so much more sense.

TRying to close the achievement gap is misguided at best, hugely detrimental at worse.

Here's what you're saying: as long as every student is learning something, it's fine with me for white, Asian-American, and non-poor students, as a group, to do better in school than other groups.

Not the PP, but you are misunderstanding the point raised by posters. MCPS should aim to elevate everyone from their current level. Each child should get attention and some child should more attention which they already get in terms of Tile 1/Focus/FARMs etc.

Everyone at 50% efficiency with zero achievement gap is not a better outcome than one group at 90% and other group at 70%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Iran and the middle eastern countries are part of the Asian continent. How do they even classify themselves as white?

And to the pp who asked if Indian people are white. No, we are not. We are brown. The few light skinned Indians you may have seen are just that - a few. Most of us are brown skinned.

+1

Those of us from the warmer south (it is either hot or warm throughout the year) generally tend to have darker skin tone than those from the north, but generally speaking it is pretty difficult to mistake even someone from the North for a caucasian! May be the PP ran into an Anglo-indian - folks who have Indian and British ancestry!

Well, now you’re in the US.

And MCPS categorizes you in the White and Asian category, so as far as MCPS is concerned, your kid is White.

MCPS does not categorize students with a heritage in India as white.

Maybe not, but they do lump them together when looking at ‘equity outcomes’.

NP. What's wrong with lumping them (high income whites and South/East Asians) together in this context?

-Indian American parent

Because it’s stupid.

It makes no sense to do that.

- Another Indian American parent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not try to elevate everyone by 10%? Every group will get better that way.

I understand that it won't narrow the achievement gap, but why are we focusing on achievement gap to start with.

Why not try to push the top group and the bottom group at the same time even if achievement gap remains the same?

AGREE completely. MCPS should focus on showing progression for each student. It would make so much more sense.

TRying to close the achievement gap is misguided at best, hugely detrimental at worse.

I fully agree and have been saying this for years as an ESOL teacher in a Title 1 school. Our students make great progress from where they started, but they're not always going to meet benchmark. It's demoralizing for the student and the staff who put in so much effort and just keep being told that progress doesn't count, only proficiency. I've had students arrive who are illiterate in their native language and then increase two ESOL levels in a year as well as learn to read and write in English, but they still don't meet the proficiency benchmarks so our work and their work is considered a failure in the eyes of central office and admin. Same for a kid in foster care who has never attended school regularly and was 3 years below grade level, but made 2 years worth of progress in 1 year but is also considered a failure. We have to meet kids where they are and celebrate their successes. Not every kid starts at the same place. Central office and admin treat kids like widgets instead of humans.

+100

Special Ed teachers say this all the time. They’re doing ridiculous evaluations that the County/State require that are ultimately useless and demoralizing.

It would be useful to track student scores over time and have that be how we judge school performance. NOT focusing on race.

Agree with this. If child is making great progress then it should be celebrated. We shouldn't be saying that unless you reach to the top level to help with zero achievement gap, all progress is useless. That's doing disservice to all the hard work teachers and kids put in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not try to elevate everyone by 10%? Every group will get better that way.

I understand that it won't narrow the achievement gap, but why are we focusing on achievement gap to start with.

Why not try to push the top group and the bottom group at the same time even if achievement gap remains the same?

AGREE completely. MCPS should focus on showing progression for each student. It would make so much more sense.

TRying to close the achievement gap is misguided at best, hugely detrimental at worse.

Here's what you're saying: as long as every student is learning something, it's fine with me for white, Asian-American, and non-poor students, as a group, to do better in school than other groups.

Nope. That’s not what I’m saying.

Figure out where a kid is starting and show PROGRESS from that level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not try to elevate everyone by 10%? Every group will get better that way.

I understand that it won't narrow the achievement gap, but why are we focusing on achievement gap to start with.

Why not try to push the top group and the bottom group at the same time even if achievement gap remains the same?

AGREE completely. MCPS should focus on showing progression for each student. It would make so much more sense.

TRying to close the achievement gap is misguided at best, hugely detrimental at worse.

Here's what you're saying: as long as every student is learning something, it's fine with me for white, Asian-American, and non-poor students, as a group, to do better in school than other groups.

Not the PP, but you are misunderstanding the point raised by posters. MCPS should aim to elevate everyone from their current level. Each child should get attention and some child should more attention which they already get in terms of Tile 1/Focus/FARMs etc.

Everyone at 50% efficiency with zero achievement gap is not a better outcome than one group at 90% and other group at 70%.

It should be an aim that each child gets EQUAL attention during teacher instruction time no matter what performance level, SES or race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not try to elevate everyone by 10%? Every group will get better that way.

I understand that it won't narrow the achievement gap, but why are we focusing on achievement gap to start with.

Why not try to push the top group and the bottom group at the same time even if achievement gap remains the same?

AGREE completely. MCPS should focus on showing progression for each student. It would make so much more sense.

TRying to close the achievement gap is misguided at best, hugely detrimental at worse.

Here's what you're saying: as long as every student is learning something, it's fine with me for white, Asian-American, and non-poor students, as a group, to do better in school than other groups.

Not the PP, but you are misunderstanding the point raised by posters. MCPS should aim to elevate everyone from their current level. Each child should get attention and some child should more attention which they already get in terms of Tile 1/Focus/FARMs etc.

Everyone at 50% efficiency with zero achievement gap is not a better outcome than one group at 90% and other group at 70%.

It should be an aim that each child gets EQUAL attention during teacher instruction time no matter what performance level, SES or race.

The goal should be appropriate time, not equal because some kids will need less instruction and some will need more. If your non-Hispanic kid and mine are in the same Spanish 2 class, mine will need less time to grasp the same material because mine sometimes speaks Spanish at home and has also studied another Romance language for years. It would be unfair to give your child and mine exactly the same amount of time and then claim your child is dragging down the rigor of the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not try to elevate everyone by 10%? Every group will get better that way.

I understand that it won't narrow the achievement gap, but why are we focusing on achievement gap to start with.

Why not try to push the top group and the bottom group at the same time even if achievement gap remains the same?

AGREE completely. MCPS should focus on showing progression for each student. It would make so much more sense.

TRying to close the achievement gap is misguided at best, hugely detrimental at worse.

Here's what you're saying: as long as every student is learning something, it's fine with me for white, Asian-American, and non-poor students, as a group, to do better in school than other groups.

Not the PP, but you are misunderstanding the point raised by posters. MCPS should aim to elevate everyone from their current level. Each child should get attention and some child should more attention which they already get in terms of Tile 1/Focus/FARMs etc.

Everyone at 50% efficiency with zero achievement gap is not a better outcome than one group at 90% and other group at 70%.

It should be an aim that each child gets EQUAL attention during teacher instruction time no matter what performance level, SES or race.

The goal should be appropriate time, not equal because some kids will need less instruction and some will need more. If your non-Hispanic kid and mine are in the same Spanish 2 class, mine will need less time to grasp the same material because mine sometimes speaks Spanish at home and has also studied another Romance language for years. It would be unfair to give your child and mine exactly the same amount of time and then claim your child is dragging down the rigor of the class.

Agree here. Appropriate time is needed. I will take 90%-70% scenario anytime over everyone at 50%.