PSA: Jews are a racial group

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just do not see it. It sounds like white supremacy garbage. It’s a religion. You choose to believe or not.

I actually think many Jews believe themselves to be a separate race.

[Anonymous]

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Sure, but studies have shown Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews have remarkable genetic homogeneity.

Also, PP: I am Jewish, not alt right. I am proud of my Jewish ethnicity and claim it, regardless of the fact that anti-Semites have exploited it to try to exterminate my grandparents and other relatives.

We are strong and proud and reject your attempts to deny our ethnic identity.

Its remarkable, I suppose, that they have 60% mideastern ancestry (probably) after 2000 years. But they are still 40% european ancestry, and anyway, all that is, is a certain degree of genetici homogeneity in a cultural religious group. It does not make it an "ethnic group".

Ok, then bring your case to those who have actually studied this.

here ya go

https://www.zdnet.com/article/scientists-ethnicity-may-not-exist-genetically-speaking/

DP... I didn't read the entire study, but this caught my attention: they studied Central Asia: the Turkic and Indo-Iranian groups.

That area straddles two continents, and with the migration pattern of both Europeans and Asians, it would be harder to find a distinct marker that identifies them as white or asian. They are going to be a mish/mash of both, and thus have more differences with both groups.

Find me a peer reviewed genetic paper that contradicts it.

contradicts what?

Contradicts the paper that says ethnicity may not exist genetically speaking?

Are you one of the folks claiming to be ethnically ashkenazi? You realize you are helping to disprove a stereotype?

nope.

Oh goodie, a goyish kopf.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just do not see it. It sounds like white supremacy garbage. It’s a religion. You choose to believe or not.

I actually think many Jews believe themselves to be a separate race.

yes, Jews have been influenced by living in the West for hundreds of years, and especially since the mid 19th century have been influenced by western concepts of "race". Just as others have been influenced by the western concept of "religion"

Our own texts make clear neither are authentic to us. Jews who worshiped idols were still Jews. But Ruth, born a moabite, was also a Jew, and the ancestor of King David, the father of our line of kings, and, in time to come, of the messiah.

We are a people. An am kadosh. A holy people. Not a religion, not a race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just do not see it. It sounds like white supremacy garbage. It’s a religion. You choose to believe or not.

I actually think many Jews believe themselves to be a separate race.

yes, Jews have been influenced by living in the West for hundreds of years, and especially since the mid 19th century have been influenced by western concepts of "race". Just as others have been influenced by the western concept of "religion"

Our own texts make clear neither are authentic to us. Jews who worshiped idols were still Jews. But Ruth, born a moabite, was also a Jew, and the ancestor of King David, the father of our line of kings, and, in time to come, of the messiah.

We are a people. An am kadosh. A holy people. Not a religion, not a race.

oh lordy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just do not see it. It sounds like white supremacy garbage. It’s a religion. You choose to believe or not.

I actually think many Jews believe themselves to be a separate race.

yes, Jews have been influenced by living in the West for hundreds of years, and especially since the mid 19th century have been influenced by western concepts of "race". Just as others have been influenced by the western concept of "religion"

Our own texts make clear neither are authentic to us. Jews who worshiped idols were still Jews. But Ruth, born a moabite, was also a Jew, and the ancestor of King David, the father of our line of kings, and, in time to come, of the messiah.

We are a people. An am kadosh. A holy people. Not a religion, not a race.

further. Ruth was a Jew based on her affirmative CHOICE. Her actions and her relationships with living human beings.

Ruth would have agreed with JK Rowling

It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just do not see it. It sounds like white supremacy garbage. It’s a religion. You choose to believe or not.

I actually think many Jews believe themselves to be a separate race.

yes, Jews have been influenced by living in the West for hundreds of years, and especially since the mid 19th century have been influenced by western concepts of "race". Just as others have been influenced by the western concept of "religion"

Our own texts make clear neither are authentic to us. Jews who worshiped idols were still Jews. But Ruth, born a moabite, was also a Jew, and the ancestor of King David, the father of our line of kings, and, in time to come, of the messiah.

We are a people. An am kadosh. A holy people. Not a religion, not a race.

oh lordy.

A translation of "adon" lord, used as a substitute for the four letter name of G-d at least from early post biblical times.

You know this of course because of your connection to Jewish culture, which makes your ancestors proud.

Of course you can't find this with a a 60 buck DNA test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Sure, but studies have shown Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews have remarkable genetic homogeneity.

Also, PP: I am Jewish, not alt right. I am proud of my Jewish ethnicity and claim it, regardless of the fact that anti-Semites have exploited it to try to exterminate my grandparents and other relatives.

We are strong and proud and reject your attempts to deny our ethnic identity.

Its remarkable, I suppose, that they have 60% mideastern ancestry (probably) after 2000 years. But they are still 40% european ancestry, and anyway, all that is, is a certain degree of genetici homogeneity in a cultural religious group. It does not make it an "ethnic group".

Ok, then bring your case to those who have actually studied this.

here ya go

https://www.zdnet.com/article/scientists-ethnicity-may-not-exist-genetically-speaking/

DP... I didn't read the entire study, but this caught my attention: they studied Central Asia: the Turkic and Indo-Iranian groups.

That area straddles two continents, and with the migration pattern of both Europeans and Asians, it would be harder to find a distinct marker that identifies them as white or asian. They are going to be a mish/mash of both, and thus have more differences with both groups.

Find me a peer reviewed genetic paper that contradicts it.

contradicts what?

Contradicts the paper that says ethnicity may not exist genetically speaking?

Are you one of the folks claiming to be ethnically ashkenazi? You realize you are helping to disprove a stereotype?

nope.

Oh goodie, a goyish kopf.

While genetics doesn't identify "race", it does identify your ancestry. Call it ancestry or race, but it defines where your genetics came from, Europe, Asia, Africa...

IMO, "race" doesn't define your intelligence, ability or character, obviously, but for the sake of this discussion, race (or call it ancestry) does exist.

http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2017/science-genetics-reshaping-race-debate-21st-century/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure what this point of view serves, except for Jewish people to be able to claim “racism” when faced with prejudice. But it’s both wrong and not necessary. You CAN be Jewish and any racial/ethnic group. You can also fully make it argument that it’s wrong to be prejudiced against someone on the basis of religion/culture. It’s not a contest.

+1

It's like a Venn Diagram. Judaism is not a race. You can be Jewish and Black, Asian, whatever. You can be Sephardic and Ashkenazi ethnically, but not Jewish - in the sense that you don't believe in the religion. You can be both, or none. They can overlap but they're not one and the same.

- non-religious at all but cultural Muslim with Ashkenazi DNA according to 23andMe

This, but alas some people are too dumb to understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Sure, but studies have shown Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews have remarkable genetic homogeneity.

Also, PP: I am Jewish, not alt right. I am proud of my Jewish ethnicity and claim it, regardless of the fact that anti-Semites have exploited it to try to exterminate my grandparents and other relatives.

We are strong and proud and reject your attempts to deny our ethnic identity.

Its remarkable, I suppose, that they have 60% mideastern ancestry (probably) after 2000 years. But they are still 40% european ancestry, and anyway, all that is, is a certain degree of genetici homogeneity in a cultural religious group. It does not make it an "ethnic group".

Ok, then bring your case to those who have actually studied this.

here ya go

https://www.zdnet.com/article/scientists-ethnicity-may-not-exist-genetically-speaking/

DP... I didn't read the entire study, but this caught my attention: they studied Central Asia: the Turkic and Indo-Iranian groups.

That area straddles two continents, and with the migration pattern of both Europeans and Asians, it would be harder to find a distinct marker that identifies them as white or asian. They are going to be a mish/mash of both, and thus have more differences with both groups.

Find me a peer reviewed genetic paper that contradicts it.

contradicts what?

Contradicts the paper that says ethnicity may not exist genetically speaking?

Are you one of the folks claiming to be ethnically ashkenazi? You realize you are helping to disprove a stereotype?

nope.

Oh goodie, a goyish kopf.

While genetics doesn't identify "race", it does identify your ancestry. Call it ancestry or race, but it defines where your genetics came from, Europe, Asia, Africa...

IMO, "race" doesn't define your intelligence, ability or character, obviously, but for the sake of this discussion, race (or call it ancestry) does exist.

http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2017/science-genetics-reshaping-race-debate-21st-century/

A 60 buck DNA test does NOT identify your ancestry. It shows how much you have in common with certain groups of test subjects the DNA company used to establish standards for "groups"

So if they got a hundred people from Stockholm and used that to define Swedish, and you are a close match to them, you will show as "swedish" If you happen to be close to people from say, Malmo, with genes that for some odd historical reasons are rare in Stockholm, you may not show up as "swedish" at all. By the same token, its even conceivable that a few of the "Swedes" they tested were from Estonia, and you may match with them because your ancestors actually came from Estonia.

It is very inexact, even as far as it goes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Sure, but studies have shown Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews have remarkable genetic homogeneity.

Also, PP: I am Jewish, not alt right. I am proud of my Jewish ethnicity and claim it, regardless of the fact that anti-Semites have exploited it to try to exterminate my grandparents and other relatives.

We are strong and proud and reject your attempts to deny our ethnic identity.

Its remarkable, I suppose, that they have 60% mideastern ancestry (probably) after 2000 years. But they are still 40% european ancestry, and anyway, all that is, is a certain degree of genetici homogeneity in a cultural religious group. It does not make it an "ethnic group".

Ok, then bring your case to those who have actually studied this.

here ya go

https://www.zdnet.com/article/scientists-ethnicity-may-not-exist-genetically-speaking/

DP... I didn't read the entire study, but this caught my attention: they studied Central Asia: the Turkic and Indo-Iranian groups.

That area straddles two continents, and with the migration pattern of both Europeans and Asians, it would be harder to find a distinct marker that identifies them as white or asian. They are going to be a mish/mash of both, and thus have more differences with both groups.

Find me a peer reviewed genetic paper that contradicts it.

contradicts what?

Contradicts the paper that says ethnicity may not exist genetically speaking?

Are you one of the folks claiming to be ethnically ashkenazi? You realize you are helping to disprove a stereotype?

nope.

Oh goodie, a goyish kopf.

While genetics doesn't identify "race", it does identify your ancestry. Call it ancestry or race, but it defines where your genetics came from, Europe, Asia, Africa...

IMO, "race" doesn't define your intelligence, ability or character, obviously, but for the sake of this discussion, race (or call it ancestry) does exist.

http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2017/science-genetics-reshaping-race-debate-21st-century/

Did you read that article? It seems to agree with my point, that race is fundamentally a social construct and is NOT grounded in genetics. and that the dna testing thing is misleading people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

- non-religious at all but cultural Muslim with Ashkenazi DNA according to 23andMe

Did the folks at 23andMe test a sample of Palestinian muslims from Samaria (sorry, the northern West Bank) an area where Jews were forcibly converted en masse to Islam in I think it was the 9th century of the Common Era? Are you sure that you have ancestors among the Talmud scholars of the 13th century Rhineland, and not among the former Jews of Nablus, who may have similar genes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since race is a social construct, I hardly think “Jews are a race” to be without question and undebatable.
Your statement doesn’t even make sense. Are you saying that the ashkenazi and Sephardim are separate racial groups? You realize that there are Jews who fit into neither category?
Are Muslims a race? Hindus?

Just stop.

I don’t know about Muslims or Hindus, but yes — Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews (as well as some others) are considered racial groups. I had the Ashkenazi Jew genetic screening panel done when I was pregnant. My 23 and me results say “50% Ashkenazi Jewish.”

You don’t know what you’re talking about.

This is absolutely correct.
Both sets of my maternal great grandparents were Jewish. When they immigrated to the US, they became Christian. If I took a DNA test, it would find 50% ashkenazi Jewish ancestry even though my maternal family has never practiced Judaism. All of their children( my grand parents) and their siblings married other ethnic European Jews from the same country. All practised Christianity when they immigrated here, but are still 100% of ethnic Jewish ancestry including my mother and her cousins.

If you took a DNA test it PROBABLY would find that you have a set of genes that has some statistical commonality with that of the ashkenazi Jews the company happened to sample.

Private gene testing companies can find only such things - not where your ancestors came from or who they were. Much less can they determine what is or is not an ethnic group, a race, or anything else.

I already know what country they came from. For as far as we know (many generations) no ancestors have married outside their country of origin. my mother was the first and it was very hard on her family because it was the end of their strong ethnic line. My grandparents and their siblings were very fond and proud of their country of origin.

P.S.
I did not intend to offend anyone. I don't claim or identify Jewish ancestry unless I am asked. My mother's maiden name usually brings up the question of Jewish ancestry because it has strong ties to a historic Jewish rabbai and Jewish artist who focused on religious art.

[Anonymous]

We are a tribe - and if we could kick Stephan Miller out on his incel ass, we surely would. Plenty in our tribe are neither Sephardi or Askenazi (e.g., Italkim, Temanim, Gruzinim, Parsim, Berber Jews (e.g., Morocco), Ethipian, Indian, and we come in all colors and many races, speak diverse languages, have different cultural traditions, and different religious rites, some of which converge, and some of which diverge.

[Anonymous]

Woah.

Stop.

No self-respecting Jew thinks Judaism is a race.

No half-intelligent person who can read a dictionary thinks Judaism is a race.

And the Ruth point makes THIS point -- Ruth converted!!! She was a non-Jew.

This is true even though she came from the people of Lot (Abraham's nephew) and was thus the SAME "race", she was a different religion.

I don't know how to fight all the ignorance and I blame 23&me and Hitler -- not sure who more.

Jews are NOT a race.

Period.

There's no more to add.

[Anonymous]

This is just a theory, but it seems to me that OP is "proud" of her Ashkenazi Jewish "ethnicity" because she is fearful about the dilutuon of that bloodline as Jews intermarry. Im Hindu Indian married to an Ashkenazi Jew. We are vaguely following aspects of both religions, but arguably neither. Our kids see themselves as both. That is a threat to the OP and other religious nationalists who see the mixing of religions and cultures as a threat. Also, to complicate matters, I am an atheist and dont give one fig about it.