I don’t understand people who don’t have passports

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm kind of surprised this thread is still going, because the OP seemed so unbelievably clueless and tone deaf.

First, to level set, I've had a passport since I was 2 mos old and my parents took me back to their home country for my uncle's wedding. I've regularly traveled internationally since I was an infant.

But some of the posts here remind me of things people would say to me when I was studying abroad in the UK. They would talk about how only x% of Americans had passports. My response was 1) yeah, but I'm obviously one of them so why be rude. And 2) going from Nebraska to South Dakota is a longer trip than France to Germany. For all of their worldliness, Europeans have no sense of American geography and what a huge country this is.

Would I like to see more Americans travel abroad to get a better sense of the world? Yes. Do I think a European who's been to the UK, France, and Germany is vastly more cultured than an American who's been to 10 of 50 states? I do not.

I actually do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

A base fare from DC to Paris (off peak season) on WOW Air is about $380. It would be a little over $400 when you include a bag or a carryon. The problem I see, and I see it from my friends, they pay $1600 for a big airline like United or Air France, they stay at a hotel chain like the Sheraton or Hilton and then eat at the most expensive restaurants. Of course that trip will be expensive.

Since this is a site for moms and dads, I'm going to guess that most of us have kids and can't go during the offseason, which is the school on-season,

DH and I always go off season because it's easier to get overnight sitters or grandparents to watch our kids while they're in school all day.

And we would never go on vacation without our kid.

Never? Yikes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

A base fare from DC to Paris (off peak season) on WOW Air is about $380. It would be a little over $400 when you include a bag or a carryon. The problem I see, and I see it from my friends, they pay $1600 for a big airline like United or Air France, they stay at a hotel chain like the Sheraton or Hilton and then eat at the most expensive restaurants. Of course that trip will be expensive.

I don't really want to fly on a super budget airline and stay in a a Paris youth hostel and eat baguettes for dinner in the park with my 6 year old ... For that same amount of money I can fly to say Denver and hike in the Rockies, no passport required.

Or you could hike in the Alps.

This proves OPs point that it’s about mindset.

ok ... I'm fairly sure that hiking in the Rockies is less expensive than a TRIP TO SWITZERLAND. Also, what's morally superior about Switzerland v Colorado? Colorodo is a much shorter flight, too.

It's good to have an international perspectives, but nobody is morally better because they travel abroad; and vacationing is not going to somehow change the world anyway.

Morally better? No. Enlightened? Yes.

What is so enlightening about travelling to a resord in the Maya Riveiera, vs travelling to say Washington and Oregon and camping on the coast? Or just driving to Shenendoah and hiking? You're fooling yourself. Vacations are for entertainment and relaxation, not elightenment.

You may find it enlightening to camp in Oregon. I found it enlightening to tour temples in Japan. Neither of us is wrong. Neither of us is changing the world. It's about rest, relaxation, recharging, learning, getting out of your comfort zone, and seeing/hearing/eating things that you have read about in history books, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

A base fare from DC to Paris (off peak season) on WOW Air is about $380. It would be a little over $400 when you include a bag or a carryon. The problem I see, and I see it from my friends, they pay $1600 for a big airline like United or Air France, they stay at a hotel chain like the Sheraton or Hilton and then eat at the most expensive restaurants. Of course that trip will be expensive.

I don't really want to fly on a super budget airline and stay in a a Paris youth hostel and eat baguettes for dinner in the park with my 6 year old ... For that same amount of money I can fly to say Denver and hike in the Rockies, no passport required.

You're proving my point, the mindset that you have to spend X amount of dollars to have a good time. I've never eaten baguettes or had to stay in a youth hostel and I have traveled on budget airlines.

What is the "mindset" that you seem to think is so important? I've traveled and lived abroad plenty. Now, I'm in a different position, where I need to take cheaper, more child-friendly trips, and also usually try to visit family during the trips.

Basically I laid out how you can go cheap on a trip and you equated it to staying at a youth hostel and having to eat baguettes. You're implying, whether consciously or subconsciously that b/c one can't be on a United Airlines flight that they can't afford a decent meal. It's a theme that's consistent in this thread that everything is too expensive, etc. Not necessarily from you, but just a general consensus.

Ok, what kind of 2-bedroom accommodations can I rent in Paris for $100-$150/night?

Airbnb, without question. I've done it.

My issue with this thread and with a lot of people in real life, is that people make assumptions. European and Asian vacations don't have to be budget busters. I can't tell you how many times I have spoken with people who vacation at Disney 1-2 times a year, but then scoff at my Euro/S Amer/Asian trips. Guess who spent less money?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

A base fare from DC to Paris (off peak season) on WOW Air is about $380. It would be a little over $400 when you include a bag or a carryon. The problem I see, and I see it from my friends, they pay $1600 for a big airline like United or Air France, they stay at a hotel chain like the Sheraton or Hilton and then eat at the most expensive restaurants. Of course that trip will be expensive.

I don't really want to fly on a super budget airline and stay in a a Paris youth hostel and eat baguettes for dinner in the park with my 6 year old ... For that same amount of money I can fly to say Denver and hike in the Rockies, no passport required.

Or you could hike in the Alps.

This proves OPs point that it’s about mindset.

ok ... I'm fairly sure that hiking in the Rockies is less expensive than a TRIP TO SWITZERLAND. Also, what's morally superior about Switzerland v Colorado? Colorodo is a much shorter flight, too.

It's good to have an international perspectives, but nobody is morally better because they travel abroad; and vacationing is not going to somehow change the world anyway.

Morally better? No. Enlightened? Yes.

What is so enlightening about travelling to a resord in the Maya Riveiera, vs travelling to say Washington and Oregon and camping on the coast? Or just driving to Shenendoah and hiking? You're fooling yourself. Vacations are for entertainment and relaxation, not elightenment.

And that’s the disconnect. You see traveling as a vacation (entertainment and relaxation) as opposed to experiencing a new culture. I agree that the Maya Riviera is not the best place to do that.

What disconnect? I don't have the money or time or family structure right now to make every vacation about "experiencing a new culture." Plus, you're fooling yourself that "experiencing a new culture" for a week or two is anything but vacationing. It's a vacation. Not a moral exercise. Get over yourself.

You are hilariously wrong.

Safari for a wek