I don’t understand people who don’t have passports

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m also surprised by the emotion this thread has elicited. Lots of strong feelings on both sides. At the end of the day, travel is not all about money. It takes a lot of knowledge, planning, and skill to travel smartly. But international travel is not as expensive as many on here seem to think, especially relative to other purchases in their life I’m sure, although at the same time there’s no question it’s a luxury item. But it’s the best investment you can make in yourself or your children, and that’s more true today than ever.

Hmmm. I think my children would rather have full bellies. To each his own though!

If money is that tight then yes, by all means, you should prioritize food. But if it’s between an XBox and a million games and an international experience, you would be wise to choose the latter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

I took 4 planes to EE and it was $500. I bet it was only $300 if I had stayed in Amsterdam and not continued. You have to watch out for deals and sign up for e-mails from airlines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

A base fare from DC to Paris (off peak season) on WOW Air is about $380. It would be a little over $400 when you include a bag or a carryon. The problem I see, and I see it from my friends, they pay $1600 for a big airline like United or Air France, they stay at a hotel chain like the Sheraton or Hilton and then eat at the most expensive restaurants. Of course that trip will be expensive.

I don't really want to fly on a super budget airline and stay in a a Paris youth hostel and eat baguettes for dinner in the park with my 6 year old ... For that same amount of money I can fly to say Denver and hike in the Rockies, no passport required.

Or you could hike in the Alps.

This proves OPs point that it’s about mindset.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s leas than $100 and good for 10 years. Why don’t people just get them? Gives you so many more travel options

People who travel, do get passports. I don't see why you think people who don't travel need to get them. Some countries mandate getting passports at 16/18, but not US. So there is no need to get one unless you like to travel. I'd rather talk about why people don't have IDs, SS cards, DL birt certificates and other documents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

A base fare from DC to Paris (off peak season) on WOW Air is about $380. It would be a little over $400 when you include a bag or a carryon. The problem I see, and I see it from my friends, they pay $1600 for a big airline like United or Air France, they stay at a hotel chain like the Sheraton or Hilton and then eat at the most expensive restaurants. Of course that trip will be expensive.

I don't really want to fly on a super budget airline and stay in a a Paris youth hostel and eat baguettes for dinner in the park with my 6 year old ... For that same amount of money I can fly to say Denver and hike in the Rockies, no passport required.

Or you could hike in the Alps.

This proves OPs point that it’s about mindset.

I agree, mindset. The mindset that paying loads extra (or staying in a hostel/flying on a super budget airline) to hike in the Alps instead of the Rockies is worth it, or essential in creating well-rounded children, is just bizarre.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m also surprised by the emotion this thread has elicited. Lots of strong feelings on both sides. At the end of the day, travel is not all about money. It takes a lot of knowledge, planning, and skill to travel smartly. But international travel is not as expensive as many on here seem to think, especially relative to other purchases in their life I’m sure, although at the same time there’s no question it’s a luxury item. But it’s the best investment you can make in yourself or your children, and that’s more true today than ever.

My daughter's teeth x-rays showed that if she did not get braces, the teeth growing in would damage the roots and four of her top front teeth would fall out. We went to two orthos for consult AND double-checked with our beloved and trusted dentist. They all said this would happen without hearing what the others had said, and all said it would happen in DD's early 20's. So I've spent $5k on braces and orthodontia so DD will not become toothless as she's graduating from college. I think that's a better investment in my child than taking her to London.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

A base fare from DC to Paris (off peak season) on WOW Air is about $380. It would be a little over $400 when you include a bag or a carryon. The problem I see, and I see it from my friends, they pay $1600 for a big airline like United or Air France, they stay at a hotel chain like the Sheraton or Hilton and then eat at the most expensive restaurants. Of course that trip will be expensive.

Since this is a site for moms and dads, I'm going to guess that most of us have kids and can't go during the offseason, which is the school on-season,

DH and I always go off season because it's easier to get overnight sitters or grandparents to watch our kids while they're in school all day.

And we would never go on vacation without our kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound terribly sheltered, OP. Grow up.

And entitled. Even relatively recently, people I grew up around, middle-class/UMC, some wealthy, vacationed nearby. I grew up in the Boston area in the 1970s/80s, and everyone went to the Cape or Maine for a week to a month. The Vineyard for the summer if they were wealthier. That was 85%+. We traveled internationally because my parents' came from another country, and we visited grandparents every other summer. We were the exception.

+1 I grew up in an affluent LA suburb and it was very unusual for a classmate to take a vacation outside the US. My parents never took us outside the US, my first trip abroad was study abroad in college.

fyi, about 40% of American adults have a passport and only about a quarter have traveled outside the US in the past 3 years.

This. Even for the American that have money, many lack the curiosity to travel abroad.

And even if they do travel overseas, many Americand are fearful of going anywhere besides North America or Western Europe. That’s been my observation since I moved to the US in the 1980’s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

A base fare from DC to Paris (off peak season) on WOW Air is about $380. It would be a little over $400 when you include a bag or a carryon. The problem I see, and I see it from my friends, they pay $1600 for a big airline like United or Air France, they stay at a hotel chain like the Sheraton or Hilton and then eat at the most expensive restaurants. Of course that trip will be expensive.

I don't really want to fly on a super budget airline and stay in a a Paris youth hostel and eat baguettes for dinner in the park with my 6 year old ... For that same amount of money I can fly to say Denver and hike in the Rockies, no passport required.

You're proving my point, the mindset that you have to spend X amount of dollars to have a good time. I've never eaten baguettes or had to stay in a youth hostel and I have traveled on budget airlines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

A base fare from DC to Paris (off peak season) on WOW Air is about $380. It would be a little over $400 when you include a bag or a carryon. The problem I see, and I see it from my friends, they pay $1600 for a big airline like United or Air France, they stay at a hotel chain like the Sheraton or Hilton and then eat at the most expensive restaurants. Of course that trip will be expensive.

I don't really want to fly on a super budget airline and stay in a a Paris youth hostel and eat baguettes for dinner in the park with my 6 year old ... For that same amount of money I can fly to say Denver and hike in the Rockies, no passport required.

Or you could hike in the Alps.

This proves OPs point that it’s about mindset.

ok ... I'm fairly sure that hiking in the Rockies is less expensive than a TRIP TO SWITZERLAND. Also, what's morally superior about Switzerland v Colorado? Colorodo is a much shorter flight, too.

It's good to have an international perspectives, but nobody is morally better because they travel abroad; and vacationing is not going to somehow change the world anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

A base fare from DC to Paris (off peak season) on WOW Air is about $380. It would be a little over $400 when you include a bag or a carryon. The problem I see, and I see it from my friends, they pay $1600 for a big airline like United or Air France, they stay at a hotel chain like the Sheraton or Hilton and then eat at the most expensive restaurants. Of course that trip will be expensive.

I don't really want to fly on a super budget airline and stay in a a Paris youth hostel and eat baguettes for dinner in the park with my 6 year old ... For that same amount of money I can fly to say Denver and hike in the Rockies, no passport required.

Or you could hike in the Alps.

This proves OPs point that it’s about mindset.

ok ... I'm fairly sure that hiking in the Rockies is less expensive than a TRIP TO SWITZERLAND. Also, what's morally superior about Switzerland v Colorado? Colorodo is a much shorter flight, too.

It's good to have an international perspectives, but nobody is morally better because they travel abroad; and vacationing is not going to somehow change the world anyway.

Morally better? No. Enlightened? Yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

A base fare from DC to Paris (off peak season) on WOW Air is about $380. It would be a little over $400 when you include a bag or a carryon. The problem I see, and I see it from my friends, they pay $1600 for a big airline like United or Air France, they stay at a hotel chain like the Sheraton or Hilton and then eat at the most expensive restaurants. Of course that trip will be expensive.

I don't really want to fly on a super budget airline and stay in a a Paris youth hostel and eat baguettes for dinner in the park with my 6 year old ... For that same amount of money I can fly to say Denver and hike in the Rockies, no passport required.

You're proving my point, the mindset that you have to spend X amount of dollars to have a good time. I've never eaten baguettes or had to stay in a youth hostel and I have traveled on budget airlines.

What is the "mindset" that you seem to think is so important? I've traveled and lived abroad plenty. Now, I'm in a different position, where I need to take cheaper, more child-friendly trips, and also usually try to visit family during the trips.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

A base fare from DC to Paris (off peak season) on WOW Air is about $380. It would be a little over $400 when you include a bag or a carryon. The problem I see, and I see it from my friends, they pay $1600 for a big airline like United or Air France, they stay at a hotel chain like the Sheraton or Hilton and then eat at the most expensive restaurants. Of course that trip will be expensive.

Okay, and you realize that the vast majority of people don’t live anywhere near airports like IAD with the cheap flights, right? Again, you are being sheltered and looking only from your DC-centric lens. You are unable to realize that people have different circumstances. The stat is about AMERICANS.

Example: I grew up in the UP of Michigan. O’Hare, the airport you can get cheap international flights from, was about 7 hours away (as were Detroit and Minneapolis). That requires adding another travel day, maybe a hotel stay, lots of gas money. The Green Bay airport was about 3 hours away, but that airport obviously doesn’t fly anywhere international and you need to connect in Chicago or Detroit. Adds about $400 per ticket.

Literally just saw a deal where you can go to China for 8 nights flying out of O'Hare for about $400. Even if you add a day of travel to get there, you're still saving thousands. I see deals all the time from different cities, I just saw a deal from Phoenix to Montego Bay for $400. If you're consistently telling yourself it's too expensive or its impossible, then you're never really going to go anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

A base fare from DC to Paris (off peak season) on WOW Air is about $380. It would be a little over $400 when you include a bag or a carryon. The problem I see, and I see it from my friends, they pay $1600 for a big airline like United or Air France, they stay at a hotel chain like the Sheraton or Hilton and then eat at the most expensive restaurants. Of course that trip will be expensive.

I don't really want to fly on a super budget airline and stay in a a Paris youth hostel and eat baguettes for dinner in the park with my 6 year old ... For that same amount of money I can fly to say Denver and hike in the Rockies, no passport required.

Or you could hike in the Alps.

This proves OPs point that it’s about mindset.

ok ... I'm fairly sure that hiking in the Rockies is less expensive than a TRIP TO SWITZERLAND. Also, what's morally superior about Switzerland v Colorado? Colorodo is a much shorter flight, too.

It's good to have an international perspectives, but nobody is morally better because they travel abroad; and vacationing is not going to somehow change the world anyway.

Morally better? No. Enlightened? Yes.

What is so enlightening about travelling to a resord in the Maya Riveiera, vs travelling to say Washington and Oregon and camping on the coast? Or just driving to Shenendoah and hiking? You're fooling yourself. Vacations are for entertainment and relaxation, not elightenment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

A base fare from DC to Paris (off peak season) on WOW Air is about $380. It would be a little over $400 when you include a bag or a carryon. The problem I see, and I see it from my friends, they pay $1600 for a big airline like United or Air France, they stay at a hotel chain like the Sheraton or Hilton and then eat at the most expensive restaurants. Of course that trip will be expensive.

I don't really want to fly on a super budget airline and stay in a a Paris youth hostel and eat baguettes for dinner in the park with my 6 year old ... For that same amount of money I can fly to say Denver and hike in the Rockies, no passport required.

You're proving my point, the mindset that you have to spend X amount of dollars to have a good time. I've never eaten baguettes or had to stay in a youth hostel and I have traveled on budget airlines.

What is the "mindset" that you seem to think is so important? I've traveled and lived abroad plenty. Now, I'm in a different position, where I need to take cheaper, more child-friendly trips, and also usually try to visit family during the trips.

Basically I laid out how you can go cheap on a trip and you equated it to staying at a youth hostel and having to eat baguettes. You're implying, whether consciously or subconsciously that b/c one can't be on a United Airlines flight that they can't afford a decent meal. It's a theme that's consistent in this thread that everything is too expensive, etc. Not necessarily from you, but just a general consensus.