I don’t understand people who don’t have passports

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

A base fare from DC to Paris (off peak season) on WOW Air is about $380. It would be a little over $400 when you include a bag or a carryon. The problem I see, and I see it from my friends, they pay $1600 for a big airline like United or Air France, they stay at a hotel chain like the Sheraton or Hilton and then eat at the most expensive restaurants. Of course that trip will be expensive.

Okay, and you realize that the vast majority of people don’t live anywhere near airports like IAD with the cheap flights, right? Again, you are being sheltered and looking only from your DC-centric lens. You are unable to realize that people have different circumstances. The stat is about AMERICANS.

Example: I grew up in the UP of Michigan. O’Hare, the airport you can get cheap international flights from, was about 7 hours away (as were Detroit and Minneapolis). That requires adding another travel day, maybe a hotel stay, lots of gas money. The Green Bay airport was about 3 hours away, but that airport obviously doesn’t fly anywhere international and you need to connect in Chicago or Detroit. Adds about $400 per ticket.

Literally just saw a deal where you can go to China for 8 nights flying out of O'Hare for about $400. Even if you add a day of travel to get there, you're still saving thousands. I see deals all the time from different cities, I just saw a deal from Phoenix to Montego Bay for $400. If you're consistently telling yourself it's too expensive or its impossible, then you're never really going to go anywhere.

Um, I don't want to spend 14 hours flying to China and lose days of vacation time. I'd much rather to a van trip in Colorado and New Mexico. Plus, as has been mentioned ad nauseum, people with kids can't just up and take the cheap flight to China. They have to plan ahead on school breaks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

A base fare from DC to Paris (off peak season) on WOW Air is about $380. It would be a little over $400 when you include a bag or a carryon. The problem I see, and I see it from my friends, they pay $1600 for a big airline like United or Air France, they stay at a hotel chain like the Sheraton or Hilton and then eat at the most expensive restaurants. Of course that trip will be expensive.

I don't really want to fly on a super budget airline and stay in a a Paris youth hostel and eat baguettes for dinner in the park with my 6 year old ... For that same amount of money I can fly to say Denver and hike in the Rockies, no passport required.

You're proving my point, the mindset that you have to spend X amount of dollars to have a good time. I've never eaten baguettes or had to stay in a youth hostel and I have traveled on budget airlines.

What is the "mindset" that you seem to think is so important? I've traveled and lived abroad plenty. Now, I'm in a different position, where I need to take cheaper, more child-friendly trips, and also usually try to visit family during the trips.

Basically I laid out how you can go cheap on a trip and you equated it to staying at a youth hostel and having to eat baguettes. You're implying, whether consciously or subconsciously that b/c one can't be on a United Airlines flight that they can't afford a decent meal. It's a theme that's consistent in this thread that everything is too expensive, etc. Not necessarily from you, but just a general consensus.

Ok, what kind of 2-bedroom accommodations can I rent in Paris for $100-$150/night?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

A base fare from DC to Paris (off peak season) on WOW Air is about $380. It would be a little over $400 when you include a bag or a carryon. The problem I see, and I see it from my friends, they pay $1600 for a big airline like United or Air France, they stay at a hotel chain like the Sheraton or Hilton and then eat at the most expensive restaurants. Of course that trip will be expensive.

I don't really want to fly on a super budget airline and stay in a a Paris youth hostel and eat baguettes for dinner in the park with my 6 year old ... For that same amount of money I can fly to say Denver and hike in the Rockies, no passport required.

Or you could hike in the Alps.

This proves OPs point that it’s about mindset.

ok ... I'm fairly sure that hiking in the Rockies is less expensive than a TRIP TO SWITZERLAND. Also, what's morally superior about Switzerland v Colorado? Colorodo is a much shorter flight, too.

It's good to have an international perspectives, but nobody is morally better because they travel abroad; and vacationing is not going to somehow change the world anyway.

Morally better? No. Enlightened? Yes.

What is so enlightening about travelling to a resord in the Maya Riveiera, vs travelling to say Washington and Oregon and camping on the coast? Or just driving to Shenendoah and hiking? You're fooling yourself. Vacations are for entertainment and relaxation, not elightenment.

And that’s the disconnect. You see traveling as a vacation (entertainment and relaxation) as opposed to experiencing a new culture. I agree that the Maya Riviera is not the best place to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

A base fare from DC to Paris (off peak season) on WOW Air is about $380. It would be a little over $400 when you include a bag or a carryon. The problem I see, and I see it from my friends, they pay $1600 for a big airline like United or Air France, they stay at a hotel chain like the Sheraton or Hilton and then eat at the most expensive restaurants. Of course that trip will be expensive.

Okay, and you realize that the vast majority of people don’t live anywhere near airports like IAD with the cheap flights, right? Again, you are being sheltered and looking only from your DC-centric lens. You are unable to realize that people have different circumstances. The stat is about AMERICANS.

Example: I grew up in the UP of Michigan. O’Hare, the airport you can get cheap international flights from, was about 7 hours away (as were Detroit and Minneapolis). That requires adding another travel day, maybe a hotel stay, lots of gas money. The Green Bay airport was about 3 hours away, but that airport obviously doesn’t fly anywhere international and you need to connect in Chicago or Detroit. Adds about $400 per ticket.

Literally just saw a deal where you can go to China for 8 nights flying out of O'Hare for about $400. Even if you add a day of travel to get there, you're still saving thousands. I see deals all the time from different cities, I just saw a deal from Phoenix to Montego Bay for $400. If you're consistently telling yourself it's too expensive or its impossible, then you're never really going to go anywhere.

Montego Bay? Seriously? You’ve to be kidding me.

[Anonymous]

We previously traveled to other countries (Europe,Canada) until we moved to DC. Could either travel or buy a house, bought a house instead. We eventually plan to renew the passports.

Most of my family can't afford to travel very far even in the US,much less overseas. They are paying off student loans, and car payments and houses. At best, they may go off season for a weekend to the beach or a state park.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

A base fare from DC to Paris (off peak season) on WOW Air is about $380. It would be a little over $400 when you include a bag or a carryon. The problem I see, and I see it from my friends, they pay $1600 for a big airline like United or Air France, they stay at a hotel chain like the Sheraton or Hilton and then eat at the most expensive restaurants. Of course that trip will be expensive.

I don't really want to fly on a super budget airline and stay in a a Paris youth hostel and eat baguettes for dinner in the park with my 6 year old ... For that same amount of money I can fly to say Denver and hike in the Rockies, no passport required.

Or you could hike in the Alps.

This proves OPs point that it’s about mindset.

ok ... I'm fairly sure that hiking in the Rockies is less expensive than a TRIP TO SWITZERLAND. Also, what's morally superior about Switzerland v Colorado? Colorodo is a much shorter flight, too.

It's good to have an international perspectives, but nobody is morally better because they travel abroad; and vacationing is not going to somehow change the world anyway.

Morally better? No. Enlightened? Yes.

What is so enlightening about travelling to a resord in the Maya Riveiera, vs travelling to say Washington and Oregon and camping on the coast? Or just driving to Shenendoah and hiking? You're fooling yourself. Vacations are for entertainment and relaxation, not elightenment.

And that’s the disconnect. You see traveling as a vacation (entertainment and relaxation) as opposed to experiencing a new culture. I agree that the Maya Riviera is not the best place to do that.

What disconnect? I don't have the money or time or family structure right now to make every vacation about "experiencing a new culture." Plus, you're fooling yourself that "experiencing a new culture" for a week or two is anything but vacationing. It's a vacation. Not a moral exercise. Get over yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

A base fare from DC to Paris (off peak season) on WOW Air is about $380. It would be a little over $400 when you include a bag or a carryon. The problem I see, and I see it from my friends, they pay $1600 for a big airline like United or Air France, they stay at a hotel chain like the Sheraton or Hilton and then eat at the most expensive restaurants. Of course that trip will be expensive.

Okay, and you realize that the vast majority of people don’t live anywhere near airports like IAD with the cheap flights, right? Again, you are being sheltered and looking only from your DC-centric lens. You are unable to realize that people have different circumstances. The stat is about AMERICANS.

Example: I grew up in the UP of Michigan. O’Hare, the airport you can get cheap international flights from, was about 7 hours away (as were Detroit and Minneapolis). That requires adding another travel day, maybe a hotel stay, lots of gas money. The Green Bay airport was about 3 hours away, but that airport obviously doesn’t fly anywhere international and you need to connect in Chicago or Detroit. Adds about $400 per ticket.

Literally just saw a deal where you can go to China for 8 nights flying out of O'Hare for about $400. Even if you add a day of travel to get there, you're still saving thousands. I see deals all the time from different cities, I just saw a deal from Phoenix to Montego Bay for $400. If you're consistently telling yourself it's too expensive or its impossible, then you're never really going to go anywhere.

Montego Bay? Seriously? You’ve to be kidding me.

PP is virtuously "experiencing a new culture" while flying from Phoenix to Montego Bay, whilst us unenlightened plebes are slumming it domestically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

A base fare from DC to Paris (off peak season) on WOW Air is about $380. It would be a little over $400 when you include a bag or a carryon. The problem I see, and I see it from my friends, they pay $1600 for a big airline like United or Air France, they stay at a hotel chain like the Sheraton or Hilton and then eat at the most expensive restaurants. Of course that trip will be expensive.

Since this is a site for moms and dads, I'm going to guess that most of us have kids and can't go during the offseason, which is the school on-season,

DH and I always go off season because it's easier to get overnight sitters or grandparents to watch our kids while they're in school all day.

And we would never go on vacation without our kid.

Why not? Don’t like your husband much?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We previously traveled to other countries (Europe,Canada) until we moved to DC. Could either travel or buy a house, bought a house instead. We eventually plan to renew the passports.

Most of my family can't afford to travel very far even in the US,much less overseas. They are paying off student loans, and car payments and houses. At best, they may go off season for a weekend to the beach or a state park.

This is the life of most middle class Americans these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

A base fare from DC to Paris (off peak season) on WOW Air is about $380. It would be a little over $400 when you include a bag or a carryon. The problem I see, and I see it from my friends, they pay $1600 for a big airline like United or Air France, they stay at a hotel chain like the Sheraton or Hilton and then eat at the most expensive restaurants. Of course that trip will be expensive.

Since this is a site for moms and dads, I'm going to guess that most of us have kids and can't go during the offseason, which is the school on-season,

DH and I always go off season because it's easier to get overnight sitters or grandparents to watch our kids while they're in school all day.

And we would never go on vacation without our kid.

Why not? Don’t like your husband much?

Im married to a woman, not a man.

We wouldn't feel comfortable leaving our kid with a stranger, and grandparents aren't in area. Actually even if they were local, one grandparent is too old, and the other two are too Christian so bad influences. So we wouldn't feel comfortable leaving child with them either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

A base fare from DC to Paris (off peak season) on WOW Air is about $380. It would be a little over $400 when you include a bag or a carryon. The problem I see, and I see it from my friends, they pay $1600 for a big airline like United or Air France, they stay at a hotel chain like the Sheraton or Hilton and then eat at the most expensive restaurants. Of course that trip will be expensive.

Since this is a site for moms and dads, I'm going to guess that most of us have kids and can't go during the offseason, which is the school on-season,

DH and I always go off season because it's easier to get overnight sitters or grandparents to watch our kids while they're in school all day.

And we would never go on vacation without our kid.

Why not? Don’t like your husband much?

Im married to a woman, not a man.

We wouldn't feel comfortable leaving our kid with a stranger, and grandparents aren't in area. Actually even if they were local, one grandparent is too old, and the other two are too Christian so bad influences. So we wouldn't feel comfortable leaving child with them either.

Plus, vacation is the only chance I get to spend uninterrupted time with my kid, and enjoy a new place and new activities with him! If I had 2 more weeks of paid vacation or was a SAHM, sure, I'd vacation alone with DH too. But that's not our life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

A base fare from DC to Paris (off peak season) on WOW Air is about $380. It would be a little over $400 when you include a bag or a carryon. The problem I see, and I see it from my friends, they pay $1600 for a big airline like United or Air France, they stay at a hotel chain like the Sheraton or Hilton and then eat at the most expensive restaurants. Of course that trip will be expensive.

Okay, and you realize that the vast majority of people don’t live anywhere near airports like IAD with the cheap flights, right? Again, you are being sheltered and looking only from your DC-centric lens. You are unable to realize that people have different circumstances. The stat is about AMERICANS.

Example: I grew up in the UP of Michigan. O’Hare, the airport you can get cheap international flights from, was about 7 hours away (as were Detroit and Minneapolis). That requires adding another travel day, maybe a hotel stay, lots of gas money. The Green Bay airport was about 3 hours away, but that airport obviously doesn’t fly anywhere international and you need to connect in Chicago or Detroit. Adds about $400 per ticket.

Literally just saw a deal where you can go to China for 8 nights flying out of O'Hare for about $400. Even if you add a day of travel to get there, you're still saving thousands. I see deals all the time from different cities, I just saw a deal from Phoenix to Montego Bay for $400. If you're consistently telling yourself it's too expensive or its impossible, then you're never really going to go anywhere.

Um, I don't want to spend 14 hours flying to China and lose days of vacation time. I'd much rather to a van trip in Colorado and New Mexico. Plus, as has been mentioned ad nauseum, people with kids can't just up and take the cheap flight to China. They have to plan ahead on school breaks.

It can be difficult to get a tourist visa to china if you're not on an approved tour with gov't approved guides. You can't just fly to China and bum around. Now, Thailand ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a significant chunk of Americans who will never leave the state, let alone the country.

As others have pointed out, affordability is another reason but international travel has gotten a lot cheaper, you can find airfares to Paris on WOW Airlines for example for probably $300 roundtrip when you include a bag. There's Airbnb so you don't have to pay $700 for a hotel. There's tour groups that build your itinerary for you and have payment plans. IDK...I get it, but some are making it out to seem like a Europe team will cost you 10K.

I don't think I've see roundtrip to Europe for $300 in nearly 20 years. Please show me where and when that is happening.

A base fare from DC to Paris (off peak season) on WOW Air is about $380. It would be a little over $400 when you include a bag or a carryon. The problem I see, and I see it from my friends, they pay $1600 for a big airline like United or Air France, they stay at a hotel chain like the Sheraton or Hilton and then eat at the most expensive restaurants. Of course that trip will be expensive.

Okay, and you realize that the vast majority of people don’t live anywhere near airports like IAD with the cheap flights, right? Again, you are being sheltered and looking only from your DC-centric lens. You are unable to realize that people have different circumstances. The stat is about AMERICANS.

Example: I grew up in the UP of Michigan. O’Hare, the airport you can get cheap international flights from, was about 7 hours away (as were Detroit and Minneapolis). That requires adding another travel day, maybe a hotel stay, lots of gas money. The Green Bay airport was about 3 hours away, but that airport obviously doesn’t fly anywhere international and you need to connect in Chicago or Detroit. Adds about $400 per ticket.

Literally just saw a deal where you can go to China for 8 nights flying out of O'Hare for about $400. Even if you add a day of travel to get there, you're still saving thousands. I see deals all the time from different cities, I just saw a deal from Phoenix to Montego Bay for $400. If you're consistently telling yourself it's too expensive or its impossible, then you're never really going to go anywhere.

Um, I don't want to spend 14 hours flying to China and lose days of vacation time. I'd much rather to a van trip in Colorado and New Mexico. Plus, as has been mentioned ad nauseum, people with kids can't just up and take the cheap flight to China. They have to plan ahead on school breaks.

It can be difficult to get a tourist visa to china if you're not on an approved tour with gov't approved guides. You can't just fly to China and bum around. Now, Thailand ...

Sorry, but this is 100% untrue. Please don’t spread false information.

[Anonymous]

You can absolutely experience a different culture within the US, because we're such a melting pot. I live in San Francisco, and going just from deep in Chinatown to the Mission to the Dogpatch to Pac Heights will expose me to different cultures.

Going from a super WASPy church in New England to a Baptist church in the deep South would expose me to different cultures.

Hell, in my very own apartment building, the Hispanic men stand aside for women, or reach out to help carry heavy things up the staircases, while the Asian men push ahead. Two different cultures right there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After my passport expired, I had no interest in renewing it. I no longer want to travel outside the US any more, certainly not to *hole countries our great president has declared them to be.

I have seen all of Europe and Asia I ever want to see. I would not travel to Africa even if given a free trip, neither S. America or Latin America, heck, not even south Texas for that matter.

I'm done. If I am itching to see a place I'll go to Google maps and take a virtual tour to see old buildings and cobbled streets, tiny crappy cars squeezing between run down buildings, and other things.

I can save myself the hassle of kicking my heels at airports, waiting, and waiting, and waiting some more, checking in and out of hotels or Gasthauses, and the general hassle and inconvenience of it all.

No more travel for me. It is not a money issue, it is a "I have better things to do with my time than look at stuff over there." If I want to be treated like a money bag, I'll watch an infomercial to get the same experience.
That seems all tourists are these days, something to take as much money from all the while smiling and wishing you a pleasant trip.

Done!

Glad you’ll be staying home.

Africa, South America etc are happy to not have to deal with a small minded person like you!

Good, you go to South America and Africa --have a nice trip! Enjoy the diarrhea, maybe bring home a parasite or two, something you can tell your grandkids about.

Haha. Wow. Yup- I have lovely stories to tell my friends and family about safaris and winelands in South Africa, Carnival in Brazil, gauchos in Argentina, etc. Total shitholes and horrible experiences!