Wall Street Journal on rampant growth in percentage of college students with “disabilities”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a huge problem. I worked at a university and one of my jobs was dealing with accommodation requests. We received a significant number of requests that were highly suspect. But we almost never rejected the request (assuming they had the minimal paperwork) and it was even rare for us to ask for a neutral evaluation.

It just wasn't worth it. We would incur significant expenses and hassle and invite the prospect of a lawsuit.

We all recognize the problem on a macro level that it creates a tremendous incentive to cheat and that it was unfair to others, but on a micro level we couldn't justify disputing all but the most egregious cases.

(To be clear, some of the increase is better diagnosis, but a lot of it isn't.)

This post is telling the real story. There is no push back from colleges and universities against a flood of people requesting disabilities on questionable grounds. Also, parents these days want their kids to have it as easy as possible. Gone are the days when it was considered character building to have to tough it out yourself. Of course, there are students with genuine disabilities who should be accommodated, no one is arguing against that. The rampant cheating of the system hurts these kids though because most reasonable and ethical people are cynical about the accommodations especially the extra time on SAT and ACT.

About 7.5% of SAT test takers receive accommodations. That is lower than the percentage of students in H.S. who receive accommodations. Whatever cheating is occurring can hardly be called "rampant".

But the percentage is much higher in affluent areas. According to this 2012 article, up to 20% of students got accommodations on the ACT from one affluent district. And that was 6 years ago! I can only imagine what percentage it is now ... http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-met-testing-accommodations-20120429-58-story.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Truly - what is the harm of accommodations? What is one single example of an accommodated kid gaining an unfair advantage? I am asking this and my kids are accommodation free. These kids may not fit into the box they are dealt with but this has nothing to do with intellect, ideas or ability to innovate. Sure - perhaps there are some careers where they may not be properly suited but that’s between them and their employer.

Obviously, with more time they could out-perform their peers who have to stick to the time limit.

Agree SATs and ACTs are as much a test of getting through all the questions within the time limits as a test of skills/ability. If one kid has say 45 seconds to work out a math problem, it is harder to get it right than if they have 90-120 seconds per question. When there's a strict time limit, many kids don't have the luxury of double checking answers. I think a lot of test prep is to teach kids how to zero in on the right answer, dismissing clearly wrong answers, as quickly as possible. It must also be more comfortable writing the SAT essay when you've got double the time to think and plan.

You don't get it. It takes the ADHD/ADD/anxiety/EF disabled student longer to do the same work, so 45 seconds for a non-disabled student = 90-120 seconds for a disabled student. There is no advantage, only a levelled playing field. There is no extra double-checking of answers. It takes the disabled student the entire period to simply get through the test! There is no extra time to plan an essay response. It takes that long just to decide what to write and write it! Some of you need to study up on this type of disability rather than impulsively responding. -Mom of ADD DD who barely squeaked by HS -- even with so-called "extras."

I think YOU don't get it. Standardized tests are build to test processing speed and working memory, in part. They're not designed to test content knowledge and creativity. It would be laughably backwards to argue that a kid should get longer on tests because he is "disabled" due to his reduced executive functioning ability.

Now, a much better argument is that schools and colleges should design evaluations and courses that give more kinds of options to different kinds of learners. That, I agree with. But standardized tests measure processing speed, period.

You are ignorant person. Psychological tests measure processing speed, not ACT or SAT.
My child has slow processing speed and low working memory. But my child with support is finishing MS magnet and will go to HS magnet next year.
Should my child not go to college? There is no way my child will take SAT or ACT without extended time... No way of any college, even CC without accommodations.
However, you have to know what kind of solutions and approaches child uses when solving some problems. I periodically literally open my mouth. I can't do it that way even with several advanced degrees and no LD. He just thinks differently.
No any single person who works with my child ever question that he belong where he is .

No, the SAT and ACT literally measure processing speed and working memory, in part. That is why they are *timed.* Your child may have many strengths, but processing speed is not one of them. It would be much better that he focuses on a college and major that does not prioritize processing speed metrics, than that he circumvent timed tests. That would be a better fit for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:



No, the SAT and ACT literally measure processing speed and working memory, in part. That is why they are *timed.* Your child may have many strengths, but processing speed is not one of them. It would be much better that he focuses on a college and major that does not prioritize processing speed metrics, than that he circumvent timed tests. That would be a better fit for him.

what college would that be exactly? Almost all colleges from whom a degree means something require one of these tests. As long as that remains the case, accommodations on these tests is necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are exactly right.

The other responders are in fact ignorant, and lucky that they have not had to learn the hard way that these disabilities are real (despite the fact that they are invisible).

Careful snarky posters, karma might be real...

I don't think people mind when the disabilities are real. They do mind that there is abuse of the system.

They don't mind when a blind person has a guide dog or someone with PTSD from service in Afghanistan has emotional support dog.

They do mind when someone spends $50 for a fake emotional support certificate to take their pet ferret (or camel) on the plane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz8bqJaKeKk

or rich parents spending thousands for a fake diagnosis so that their kid gets extra time on the SATs https://www.thedailybeast.com/faking-adhd-gets-you-into-harvard

or college students fake ADHD to get Adderall. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mouse-man/201007/new-study-claims-it-is-easy-fake-adhd

As long as these things are allowed to occur, it undermines the case of people with real needs.

Except in this thread we have people telling those with disabled to go find their "niche" [that isn't in college]. We have lots of shaming language directed towards anyone who uses and accommodation, including calling them disgraceful. Your starting assumption is that you should be arbiter of what constitutes a "real" disability.

You want to focus on abuse of the system yet until very recently people with very disabilities were unable to get reasonable accommodations. Children with learning disabilities are still left unidentified and failed out of school. Children with identified learning disabilities are still not provided with scientifically backed learning methods and then called "lazy" or a "behavioral problem" when they still don't catch up when provided with more of the same methods that don't work. You only care about abuse of the system because it doesn't affect you at all that bright kids with a lot of potential are short changed. Personally, I'm delighted to know a pair of brothers with ADHD and dyslexia who are doing great in the engineering program at their chosen university. What's even more marvelous for me is out confident they are in themselves that they can talk about their challenges and how they overcome them without the shame people like you want to place on them.

Guess what. I have a child with a legitimate IEP, and I think that inflated disability claims do NOTHING to help him. It only makes people more skeptical of disability rights in general.

Guess what. Most of the posters here don't think your child's IEP is legitimate and that s/he doesn't belong in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:



No, the SAT and ACT literally measure processing speed and working memory, in part. That is why they are *timed.* Your child may have many strengths, but processing speed is not one of them. It would be much better that he focuses on a college and major that does not prioritize processing speed metrics, than that he circumvent timed tests. That would be a better fit for him.

what college would that be exactly? Almost all colleges from whom a degree means something require one of these tests. As long as that remains the case, accommodations on these tests is necessary.

And meanwhile, scores on SAT and ACT are extremely poor predictors of success in college, but colleges largely don't ditch them because their standing and income is dependent upon students' SAT and ACT scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If anyone was curious about what disability accommodations look like specifically from Pomona: https://www.pomona.edu/accessibility/student-accessibility/accommodation-services

Test-Taking Accommodations
50% or 100% additional time on traditional tests
Quiet location for testing
Computer test reader
Dragon Naturally Speaking as a test writing resource
Use of computer to type essay exams
Assistive technology for exams or for course work
Spelling and punctuation considerations on exams
Classroom Accommodations
Notes or course notes
Permission to record the course lecture
Preferential seating
Course handouts in an enlarged font
Course handouts in an electronic format
Use of service animal in the classroom
Assistive technology in classroom

Mobility Accommodations
Relocating classrooms, lab, field trips and living spaces in accessible locations.
Pomona Medical Supply will provide carts and mobility devices.
Foreign Language Exemption
All exemptions are processed through the Academic Procedure Committee. Contact the Associate Dean of Students to assist with this process.

Emotional Support Animals
To obtain permission to have an emotional support animal on campus, review the pets in residence hall policy and have the medical professional complete the emotional support animal application form. Once that is completed, contact the Dean of Students Office to secure permission to have an emotional support animal on campus.

Housing Accommodations
Please contact the Dean of Students Office to secure permission to have an air conditioner or single room.

Here is the form students fill out: https://www.pomona.edu/sites/default/files/disability-request-for-services.pdf and the one professionals do: https://www.pomona.edu/sites/default/files/disability-documentation-form.pdf

I find it strange that the student form asks- "What accommodations do you need?" Shouldn't this be to the judgement of the professional solely? If the student form is the primary way accommodations are assigned, the potential for abuse is significant.

A further look at "tips for accommodations" gives far too much leverage, IMO, for students to create accommodations as they WANT rather than as they NEED (or as is reasonable). https://www.pomona.edu/accessibility/student-accessibility/accommodation-services/how-make-most-your-academic-accommodations

Pomona's Common Data Set states that 94% of entering students ranked in the top 10% of their high school class. Their profile states 27% of enrolled students ranked valedictorian. Pomona seems to bend over backwards to accommodate students that I could not imagine happening at any high school. Those students clearly thrived academically- most without needing accommodations in the first place. They're not suddenly going to come into college unable to handle the lifestyle or workload. The reality is that Pomona needs to take a long hard look on the ease which it allows accommodations and ensure that the students who genuinely need them are getting the bulk of the resources.

The free "market" will sort all this out by declining to hire Pomona grads, then smart students and their parents will revolt and demand standards. Smart students won't allow the devaluation of their hard won credential (the diploma) by the allowance of practices (e.g. excessive accommodation) that are not respected by prospective employers. The same problem afflicts POC who are the beneficiaries of affirmative action - people rationally question whether a POC doctor is capable or a beneficiary of "special accommodations". Of course there are many capable and even brilliant POC doctors (e.g. Ben Carson) but their achievement is called into question by the practices of affirmative action. Meet the standard, don't lower it.

Or they will do just fine. I don't think you're getting it. People who need accommodations in college often succeed very well in their careers and needing accommodations isn't reflective of intellect. In fact, those that have to work harder to do as well as their peers in school often do better when they're no longer being judged in such an artificial environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Truly - what is the harm of accommodations? What is one single example of an accommodated kid gaining an unfair advantage? I am asking this and my kids are accommodation free. These kids may not fit into the box they are dealt with but this has nothing to do with intellect, ideas or ability to innovate. Sure - perhaps there are some careers where they may not be properly suited but that’s between them and their employer.

Obviously, with more time they could out-perform their peers who have to stick to the time limit.

Agree SATs and ACTs are as much a test of getting through all the questions within the time limits as a test of skills/ability. If one kid has say 45 seconds to work out a math problem, it is harder to get it right than if they have 90-120 seconds per question. When there's a strict time limit, many kids don't have the luxury of double checking answers. I think a lot of test prep is to teach kids how to zero in on the right answer, dismissing clearly wrong answers, as quickly as possible. It must also be more comfortable writing the SAT essay when you've got double the time to think and plan.

You don't get it. It takes the ADHD/ADD/anxiety/EF disabled student longer to do the same work, so 45 seconds for a non-disabled student = 90-120 seconds for a disabled student. There is no advantage, only a levelled playing field. There is no extra double-checking of answers. It takes the disabled student the entire period to simply get through the test! There is no extra time to plan an essay response. It takes that long just to decide what to write and write it! Some of you need to study up on this type of disability rather than impulsively responding. -Mom of ADD DD who barely squeaked by HS -- even with so-called "extras."

I think YOU don't get it. Standardized tests are build to test processing speed and working memory, in part. They're not designed to test content knowledge and creativity. It would be laughably backwards to argue that a kid should get longer on tests because he is "disabled" due to his reduced executive functioning ability.

Now, a much better argument is that schools and colleges should design evaluations and courses that give more kinds of options to different kinds of learners. That, I agree with. But standardized tests measure processing speed, period.

You are ignorant person. Psychological tests measure processing speed, not ACT or SAT.
My child has slow processing speed and low working memory. But my child with support is finishing MS magnet and will go to HS magnet next year.
Should my child not go to college? There is no way my child will take SAT or ACT without extended time... No way of any college, even CC without accommodations.
However, you have to know what kind of solutions and approaches child uses when solving some problems. I periodically literally open my mouth. I can't do it that way even with several advanced degrees and no LD. He just thinks differently.
No any single person who works with my child ever question that he belong where he is .

No, the SAT and ACT literally measure processing speed and working memory, in part. That is why they are *timed.* Your child may have many strengths, but processing speed is not one of them. It would be much better that he focuses on a college and major that does not prioritize processing speed metrics, than that he circumvent timed tests. That would be a better fit for him.

If someone doesn't have a disability that requires extra time and they know the material, they have no problem finishing in under time. If someone knows the material but has a disability that makes it take longer to perform the mechanics of the test, limiting time does affect their ability to finish the test. This is why scores don't change very much when people without disabilities are given extra time but scores do change a lot when people with disabilities are given extra time. I don't know why you're stuck on processing speed being a key indicator on whether someone should go to college. There are many, many professions requiring advanced degrees where processing speed is completely irrelevant. Of course SAT scores are also largely irrelevant too. So maybe that is your point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:



No, the SAT and ACT literally measure processing speed and working memory, in part. That is why they are *timed.* Your child may have many strengths, but processing speed is not one of them. It would be much better that he focuses on a college and major that does not prioritize processing speed metrics, than that he circumvent timed tests. That would be a better fit for him.

what college would that be exactly? Almost all colleges from whom a degree means something require one of these tests. As long as that remains the case, accommodations on these tests is necessary.

And meanwhile, scores on SAT and ACT are extremely poor predictors of success in college, but colleges largely don't ditch them because their standing and income is dependent upon students' SAT and ACT scores.

They are excellent predictors of grades. And coupled with a kids’ grades they show if a kid has learned a lot and gotten a good education.
Just because your kid can’t do well on the tests is not a valid reason to trash them.
The test should be telling you and your child that maybe he should pick exercise science as a major instead of engineering, say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Truly - what is the harm of accommodations? What is one single example of an accommodated kid gaining an unfair advantage? I am asking this and my kids are accommodation free. These kids may not fit into the box they are dealt with but this has nothing to do with intellect, ideas or ability to innovate. Sure - perhaps there are some careers where they may not be properly suited but that’s between them and their employer.

Obviously, with more time they could out-perform their peers who have to stick to the time limit.

Agree SATs and ACTs are as much a test of getting through all the questions within the time limits as a test of skills/ability. If one kid has say 45 seconds to work out a math problem, it is harder to get it right than if they have 90-120 seconds per question. When there's a strict time limit, many kids don't have the luxury of double checking answers. I think a lot of test prep is to teach kids how to zero in on the right answer, dismissing clearly wrong answers, as quickly as possible. It must also be more comfortable writing the SAT essay when you've got double the time to think and plan.

You don't get it. It takes the ADHD/ADD/anxiety/EF disabled student longer to do the same work, so 45 seconds for a non-disabled student = 90-120 seconds for a disabled student. There is no advantage, only a levelled playing field. There is no extra double-checking of answers. It takes the disabled student the entire period to simply get through the test! There is no extra time to plan an essay response. It takes that long just to decide what to write and write it! Some of you need to study up on this type of disability rather than impulsively responding. -Mom of ADD DD who barely squeaked by HS -- even with so-called "extras."

I think YOU don't get it. Standardized tests are build to test processing speed and working memory, in part. They're not designed to test content knowledge and creativity. It would be laughably backwards to argue that a kid should get longer on tests because he is "disabled" due to his reduced executive functioning ability.

Now, a much better argument is that schools and colleges should design evaluations and courses that give more kinds of options to different kinds of learners. That, I agree with. But standardized tests measure processing speed, period.

You are ignorant person. Psychological tests measure processing speed, not ACT or SAT.
My child has slow processing speed and low working memory. But my child with support is finishing MS magnet and will go to HS magnet next year.
Should my child not go to college? There is no way my child will take SAT or ACT without extended time... No way of any college, even CC without accommodations.
However, you have to know what kind of solutions and approaches child uses when solving some problems. I periodically literally open my mouth. I can't do it that way even with several advanced degrees and no LD. He just thinks differently.
No any single person who works with my child ever question that he belong where he is .

No, the SAT and ACT literally measure processing speed and working memory, in part. That is why they are *timed.* Your child may have many strengths, but processing speed is not one of them. It would be much better that he focuses on a college and major that does not prioritize processing speed metrics, than that he circumvent timed tests. That would be a better fit for him.

If someone doesn't have a disability that requires extra time and they know the material, they have no problem finishing in under time. If someone knows the material but has a disability that makes it take longer to perform the mechanics of the test, limiting time does affect their ability to finish the test. This is why scores don't change very much when people without disabilities are given extra time but scores do change a lot when people with disabilities are given extra time. I don't know why you're stuck on processing speed being a key indicator on whether someone should go to college. There are many, many professions requiring advanced degrees where processing speed is completely irrelevant. Of course SAT scores are also largely irrelevant too. So maybe that is your point?

SAT scores are not irrelevant. I know many people at the upper echelons of law (Supreme Court), medicine and academia who scored very highly. I know of none who did not.
I know smart athletes who didn’t do well in school or on tests, but for many professions the scores were universally high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:



No, the SAT and ACT literally measure processing speed and working memory, in part. That is why they are *timed.* Your child may have many strengths, but processing speed is not one of them. It would be much better that he focuses on a college and major that does not prioritize processing speed metrics, than that he circumvent timed tests. That would be a better fit for him.

what college would that be exactly? Almost all colleges from whom a degree means something require one of these tests. As long as that remains the case, accommodations on these tests is necessary.

Here you go: https://blog.prepscholar.com/the-complete-guide-to-sat-optional-colleges

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are exactly right.

The other responders are in fact ignorant, and lucky that they have not had to learn the hard way that these disabilities are real (despite the fact that they are invisible).

Careful snarky posters, karma might be real...

I don't think people mind when the disabilities are real. They do mind that there is abuse of the system.

They don't mind when a blind person has a guide dog or someone with PTSD from service in Afghanistan has emotional support dog.

They do mind when someone spends $50 for a fake emotional support certificate to take their pet ferret (or camel) on the plane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz8bqJaKeKk

or rich parents spending thousands for a fake diagnosis so that their kid gets extra time on the SATs https://www.thedailybeast.com/faking-adhd-gets-you-into-harvard

or college students fake ADHD to get Adderall. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mouse-man/201007/new-study-claims-it-is-easy-fake-adhd

As long as these things are allowed to occur, it undermines the case of people with real needs.

Except in this thread we have people telling those with disabled to go find their "niche" [that isn't in college]. We have lots of shaming language directed towards anyone who uses and accommodation, including calling them disgraceful. Your starting assumption is that you should be arbiter of what constitutes a "real" disability.

You want to focus on abuse of the system yet until very recently people with very disabilities were unable to get reasonable accommodations. Children with learning disabilities are still left unidentified and failed out of school. Children with identified learning disabilities are still not provided with scientifically backed learning methods and then called "lazy" or a "behavioral problem" when they still don't catch up when provided with more of the same methods that don't work. You only care about abuse of the system because it doesn't affect you at all that bright kids with a lot of potential are short changed. Personally, I'm delighted to know a pair of brothers with ADHD and dyslexia who are doing great in the engineering program at their chosen university. What's even more marvelous for me is out confident they are in themselves that they can talk about their challenges and how they overcome them without the shame people like you want to place on them.

Guess what. I have a child with a legitimate IEP, and I think that inflated disability claims do NOTHING to help him. It only makes people more skeptical of disability rights in general.

Guess what. Most of the posters here don't think your child's IEP is legitimate and that s/he doesn't belong in college.

I highly doubt that. And if my kid (who by all accounts actually has great working memory and processing speed) got extra time on the SAT and ACT and outscored their kid, I think they would be right to think that was wrong. My goal for my child is for him to learn to understand and compensate for his weaknesses, and play to his strengths. I do want him to get supports along the way, but not supports that give him an unfair advantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If anyone was curious about what disability accommodations look like specifically from Pomona: https://www.pomona.edu/accessibility/student-accessibility/accommodation-services

Test-Taking Accommodations
50% or 100% additional time on traditional tests
Quiet location for testing
Computer test reader
Dragon Naturally Speaking as a test writing resource
Use of computer to type essay exams
Assistive technology for exams or for course work
Spelling and punctuation considerations on exams
Classroom Accommodations
Notes or course notes
Permission to record the course lecture
Preferential seating
Course handouts in an enlarged font
Course handouts in an electronic format
Use of service animal in the classroom
Assistive technology in classroom

Mobility Accommodations
Relocating classrooms, lab, field trips and living spaces in accessible locations.
Pomona Medical Supply will provide carts and mobility devices.
Foreign Language Exemption
All exemptions are processed through the Academic Procedure Committee. Contact the Associate Dean of Students to assist with this process.

Emotional Support Animals
To obtain permission to have an emotional support animal on campus, review the pets in residence hall policy and have the medical professional complete the emotional support animal application form. Once that is completed, contact the Dean of Students Office to secure permission to have an emotional support animal on campus.

Housing Accommodations
Please contact the Dean of Students Office to secure permission to have an air conditioner or single room.

Here is the form students fill out: https://www.pomona.edu/sites/default/files/disability-request-for-services.pdf and the one professionals do: https://www.pomona.edu/sites/default/files/disability-documentation-form.pdf

I find it strange that the student form asks- "What accommodations do you need?" Shouldn't this be to the judgement of the professional solely? If the student form is the primary way accommodations are assigned, the potential for abuse is significant.

A further look at "tips for accommodations" gives far too much leverage, IMO, for students to create accommodations as they WANT rather than as they NEED (or as is reasonable). https://www.pomona.edu/accessibility/student-accessibility/accommodation-services/how-make-most-your-academic-accommodations

Pomona's Common Data Set states that 94% of entering students ranked in the top 10% of their high school class. Their profile states 27% of enrolled students ranked valedictorian. Pomona seems to bend over backwards to accommodate students that I could not imagine happening at any high school. Those students clearly thrived academically- most without needing accommodations in the first place. They're not suddenly going to come into college unable to handle the lifestyle or workload. The reality is that Pomona needs to take a long hard look on the ease which it allows accommodations and ensure that the students who genuinely need them are getting the bulk of the resources.

The free "market" will sort all this out by declining to hire Pomona grads, then smart students and their parents will revolt and demand standards. Smart students won't allow the devaluation of their hard won credential (the diploma) by the allowance of practices (e.g. excessive accommodation) that are not respected by prospective employers. The same problem afflicts POC who are the beneficiaries of affirmative action - people rationally question whether a POC doctor is capable or a beneficiary of "special accommodations". Of course there are many capable and even brilliant POC doctors (e.g. Ben Carson) but their achievement is called into question by the practices of affirmative action. Meet the standard, don't lower it.

Or they will do just fine. I don't think you're getting it. People who need accommodations in college often succeed very well in their careers and needing accommodations isn't reflective of intellect. In fact, those that have to work harder to do as well as their peers in school often do better when they're no longer being judged in such an artificial environment.

What you say was true in the past. But it does not grapple with the fact that it's facially ridiculous that a full 20% of kids in a well-to-to Chicago suburb are somehow so disabled as to need ACT accommodations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Obviously, with more time they could out-perform their peers who have to stick to the time limit.

No, accommodations put them on level playing fields.

Part of growing up is figuring out your niche and finding jobs where your quirks and strengths are rewarded.

Speaking as the mother of an adult who received accommodations and services in HS and accommodations in college, this PP is right. Kids who need accommodations are not going to be looking for jobs that they can only perform if the jobs are modified. But, when you are in school, whether it be pre-college or post high school, there are skills that are required to be even minimally successful that you may never use again. The lack of those skills should not bar someone from the education necessary to be successful in this world.

‘The level playing field’ doesn’t exist and has never existed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:



No, the SAT and ACT literally measure processing speed and working memory, in part. That is why they are *timed.* Your child may have many strengths, but processing speed is not one of them. It would be much better that he focuses on a college and major that does not prioritize processing speed metrics, than that he circumvent timed tests. That would be a better fit for him.

what college would that be exactly? Almost all colleges from whom a degree means something require one of these tests. As long as that remains the case, accommodations on these tests is necessary.

And meanwhile, scores on SAT and ACT are extremely poor predictors of success in college, but colleges largely don't ditch them because their standing and income is dependent upon students' SAT and ACT scores.

They are excellent predictors of grades. And coupled with a kids’ grades they show if a kid has learned a lot and gotten a good education.
Just because your kid can’t do well on the tests is not a valid reason to trash them.
The test should be telling you and your child that maybe he should pick exercise science as a major instead of engineering, say.

It's not just me trashing them .. it's colleges. They've found SAT and ACT scores are poor predictors of success in college. High School grades are a better predictor by far because those are much more closely tied to work ethic.

https://www.iacac.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/H59-Defining-Promise.pdf


PS: Many kids with ADHD do just fine with an engineering major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Truly - what is the harm of accommodations? What is one single example of an accommodated kid gaining an unfair advantage? I am asking this and my kids are accommodation free. These kids may not fit into the box they are dealt with but this has nothing to do with intellect, ideas or ability to innovate. Sure - perhaps there are some careers where they may not be properly suited but that’s between them and their employer.

Obviously, with more time they could out-perform their peers who have to stick to the time limit.

Agree SATs and ACTs are as much a test of getting through all the questions within the time limits as a test of skills/ability. If one kid has say 45 seconds to work out a math problem, it is harder to get it right than if they have 90-120 seconds per question. When there's a strict time limit, many kids don't have the luxury of double checking answers. I think a lot of test prep is to teach kids how to zero in on the right answer, dismissing clearly wrong answers, as quickly as possible. It must also be more comfortable writing the SAT essay when you've got double the time to think and plan.

You don't get it. It takes the ADHD/ADD/anxiety/EF disabled student longer to do the same work, so 45 seconds for a non-disabled student = 90-120 seconds for a disabled student. There is no advantage, only a levelled playing field. There is no extra double-checking of answers. It takes the disabled student the entire period to simply get through the test! There is no extra time to plan an essay response. It takes that long just to decide what to write and write it! Some of you need to study up on this type of disability rather than impulsively responding. -Mom of ADD DD who barely squeaked by HS -- even with so-called "extras."

I think YOU don't get it. Standardized tests are build to test processing speed and working memory, in part. They're not designed to test content knowledge and creativity. It would be laughably backwards to argue that a kid should get longer on tests because he is "disabled" due to his reduced executive functioning ability.

Now, a much better argument is that schools and colleges should design evaluations and courses that give more kinds of options to different kinds of learners. That, I agree with. But standardized tests measure processing speed, period.

You are ignorant person. Psychological tests measure processing speed, not ACT or SAT.
My child has slow processing speed and low working memory. But my child with support is finishing MS magnet and will go to HS magnet next year.
Should my child not go to college? There is no way my child will take SAT or ACT without extended time... No way of any college, even CC without accommodations.
However, you have to know what kind of solutions and approaches child uses when solving some problems. I periodically literally open my mouth. I can't do it that way even with several advanced degrees and no LD. He just thinks differently.
No any single person who works with my child ever question that he belong where he is .

No, the SAT and ACT literally measure processing speed and working memory, in part. That is why they are *timed.* Your child may have many strengths, but processing speed is not one of them. It would be much better that he focuses on a college and major that does not prioritize processing speed metrics, than that he circumvent timed tests. That would be a better fit for him.

If someone doesn't have a disability that requires extra time and they know the material, they have no problem finishing in under time. If someone knows the material but has a disability that makes it take longer to perform the mechanics of the test, limiting time does affect their ability to finish the test. This is why scores don't change very much when people without disabilities are given extra time but scores do change a lot when people with disabilities are given extra time. I don't know why you're stuck on processing speed being a key indicator on whether someone should go to college. There are many, many professions requiring advanced degrees where processing speed is completely irrelevant. Of course SAT scores are also largely irrelevant too. So maybe that is your point?

But the "mechanics of the test" are the whole point. Standardized tests measure your ability to take standardized tests, which includes how well you cope with the "mechanics" of the test. And if the outcomes are the same, lets let everyone have extra time. I know you don't want to hear this, but processing speed, working memory, and executive function ARE key components of intelligence, as generally understood. Your child may well have other kinds of intelligence and personal qualities that are important, perhaps even more important. But standardized tests have a purpose, and I'd rather see us just get rid of them than make them nonsensical.