Hollywood praising Tonya Harding

[Anonymous]

Honestly no matter how Kerrigan met her (married coach ew) husband, they've been married now for 22 years, so the proof is in the pudding. It's a lot harder to maintain contempt for the details of a relationship when it's going that long and strong.

But if you need a person to be a little trashy in order to feel for them/what they came from, just know that Kerrigan's brother was charged with murdering their dad. He was acquitted and it was downgraded to assault for which he did a couple years in jail. Nothing more trashy/hillbilly/redneck that getting into a physical fight that results in your dad's death!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly no matter how Kerrigan met her (married coach ew) husband, they've been married now for 22 years, so the proof is in the pudding. It's a lot harder to maintain contempt for the details of a relationship when it's going that long and strong.

But if you need a person to be a little trashy in order to feel for them/what they came from, just know that Kerrigan's brother was charged with murdering their dad. He was acquitted and it was downgraded to assault for which he did a couple years in jail. Nothing more trashy/hillbilly/redneck that getting into a physical fight that results in your dad's death!

What's your point? Has anyone here other then ONE poster made light of what happened to her? I don't think so.

Other people talked about how she was kind of a habitual b to coaches and staff at competitions. You can acknowledge that and think that what happened to her was awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been wondering - was Tonya really abused as a child? I assume she was, since that's what she says. But then here's an interview with her mother, who denies it. I wonder which one is telling the truth.
https://www.popsugar.com/entertainment/Tonya-Harding-Abused-Child-44354774

Starting to feel guilty about painting a child abuse victim as Satan incarnate and rationalizing?

For the record, not saying Tonya was innocent/ good person/ Nancy deserved it.

Um, what? I’m the PP and haven’t “painted” anyone as “Satan incarnate.” You do realize there are multiple posters here, right? I was simply questioning the veracity of Tonya’s child abuse claims.

[Anonymous]

The truth is that Tonya had an amazing amount of raw physical talent, and because of this had received all kinds of breaks and slack from USFSA. But unfortunately, the woman had no work ethic. Tonya likes to play the game of "I'm not an ice princess so no one likes me". No, Tonya, people in skating didn't like you because you didn't work hard enough. Kerrigan, a child of a welder and a legally blind mother, is as far from ice princess as could be. She simply did better with her gifts using old-fashioned hard work and listening to her coaches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other PP here. I don't know who is faulting Kerrigan, but I do think that she made herself rather unlikable with her lack of personality, and her facial expression (lack of sportsmanship) when she won silver, and marrying her married coach. I don't think anyone ever expected Kerrigan to get gold (if I recall correctly). I definitely did not see Oksana coming, at the time. She was just so fun, young, spunky, talented and full of likable personality. LOVE Oksana, don't know what she has done since (I haven't really looked any of these people up). PP here. Team Oksana, though!

Kerrigan skated beautifully during the Olympics. She was every much a contender for the gold as Oksana was.

Kerrigan had really been put through it with the attack, her recovery from her injury, the press and just the plain ugliness of what had happened to her. It was A LOT for her to go through on top of the already intense training that all Olympic athletes go through to be the best in their sport.

Kerrigan really thought that she had earned the gold medal. A lot of people did. And it was natural to want to see such a harrowing ordeal end with a gold medal. I think that she was just plain emotionally spent when she stood on the podium and was honored with her silver.

In the first jumping pass of her long program, she did a double loop instead of a triple loop. She didn't fall, had a lovely overall presence and programs, and of course her signature spiral. But she didn't have as many triple jumps, as complex spins, or as much overall speed as Oksana. She didn't deserve the gold that night, pure and simple. Yes, Nancy went through a lot. But so did Oksana--she was literally an orphan hanging out at an ice rink in the Ukraine.

Look, let's not rehash 1994. Oksana didn't skate a clean program either. It could have gone either way, which was reflected in how the judging votes split 5/4. That doesn't happen when one person is a clear winner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie was great, and I personally don't think Tonya knew the guy was going to physically hurt Nancy Kerrigan. Harding had a crazy life and I find her sympathetic.

The movie wants her to be portrayed as the victim. It was a movie that is not set in reality of the actual events. Plenty of people have crappy lives and would not contribute to the assault of another human being. Hollywood movies manipulate the facts, your brain while they take in the cash.

I think how some people like you are so bizarrely emphatic even years later that nothing about her life and situation can generate empathy. I feel like its so like...it was such an encapsulation of how we (American's) view the world.

Nancy was this good traditional hardworking elegant girl, and got the whole country behind her. And Tonya was a tough, poor, arguably far more hardworking considering what she was overcoming, crass girl who never learned how to be a good person but who wanted a different life for herself and fell victim to the habits her crappy life instilled in her. Nancy was always going to be fine. In another life she may or may not have won the gold but no matter what she was going to be fine. Tonya needed that gold to escape, so she behaved badly. And was very very thoroughly punished for it. And still 30 years later people are unable to find empathy (which is not the same as forgiveness or acceptance) for her. Its amazing to me.

Tonya was many things but she was never a hard worker, and THAT was her downfall. Looking for shortcuts instead of just putting her nose to the grindstone.

Nancy, despite what you may believe, was a tomboy from a workingclass New England family, a welder's daughter, not especially refined or princessy until the Scotsvolds explained to her what Olympic caliber skating means and what it required of her. It was NOT natural or easy for Nancy but she applied herself and got there. I was never a fan of her skating but she did what she needed to do to elevate herself.

Tonya did NOT need the gold to "escape", whatever you mean by that. Remember that by the time she had a chance to go to the Olympics, she was already a world-class skater who could have settled into a respectable career of shows and coaching later. You don't need a gold medal for that. Michelle Kwan had an amazing career without ever winning Olympic gold. Tonya's own laziness, lack of work ethic and trashy character did her in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a bit older & totally remember the whole Tonya Harding vs. Nancy Kerrigan situation.

Tonya DID NOT attack Nancy w/a club to her knee.
It was actually her then-husband Jeff Golooly (he has since changed his entire name) + Tonya’s bodyguard.

She may not have known that they were going to hurt Nancy.
But even if she did know in advance, she never actually committed the crime.
Her husband and bodyguard did.

Yes.....
She knew they did it after the fact, but that is not so bad that she deserved a lifetime ban on ice skating.

Plus even though she stated she would kick Nancy’s butt in the Olympics, she had problems w/her skate laces and thus didn’t even medal.
She had bragged that when she would win the gold medal, she would hang it up on her bedroom wall.

Nancy placed Silver and Oksana B. from Russia ended up bringing home the Gold that year.

It is true what Margot Robbie has said though.
That Tonya didn’t deserve what she got.

Not only was she banned from skating for the rest of her life, she also lost millions upon millions in endorsements because of what had occurred.

Except you totally don't remember that Oksana represented Ukraine, not Russia. What else don't you remember?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oksana deserved the gold, btw. Her skating was flawless.

No it wasn't. It was many things but flawless it wasn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not one of you remembers Tonya's lousy start of her routine and then her fake claim that her "laces broke"? Or Tonya's involvement in "America's Dumbest ___"? This is not a person to praise.

I actually vividly remember this. I was just a little kid, maybe 7, and I have a lasting lifelong impression of how horrible it was to watch someone that everyone hated come out and try only to have that happen and have to start over. I remember looking at her face and seeing real genuine agony and as a result my entire life I have always had more sympathy for Tonya Harding than anyone thought was appropriate.

No one wants to do a real thoughtful examination of this of course, it is easy to label her trailer trash. But someone can be a not-very-good-person and you can still have empathy for why they are who they are. Tonya grew up abused and her only ticket out was skating. If you back an abused dog into a corner they are going to lash out when they try to escape. I think the whole thing also showed how insanely classist figure skating was (is?). Tonya was 'athletic' and not 'graceful'. She didn't have the prettiest costumes because she couldn't afford them, she didn't have the grace of a girl raised in a wealthy family in new england. Those things were not her fault but resulted in the whole skating industry/country rooting for Nancy because she was prettier and more graceful and more what people wanted their daughters to be.

I think Tonya probably knew something. I think she isn't particularly good about accepting responsibility for her mistakes. I also think she was treated terribly long before the Kerrigan incident. Tonya Harding is a product of her circumstances, and so while I think she acted poorly, I think she's entitled to a redemption and I think perhaps we as a country should look back on that incident in a new light considering the growing economic divides in this country and the way it is causing us to stereotype and pigeonhole people. I don't think we ever need to create another Tonya Harding. But I'm grateful that she taught me such a serious lesson in empathy at such a young age, it has made me a better person I think.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Nancy Kerrigan grew up in a very modest family in a hardscrabble Mass. town. Her father was a welder, mom never worked and is as good as blind. Dad worked three jobs to pay for her skating, drove a zamboni at a local rink. Wealthy! Please, child. Learn some history.

Tonya, at the time of the accident, was a national caliber skating who was given every opportunity and more that she didn't deserve. At that level, skaters get pretty much everything paid for by the USFSA. Yes she's not beautiful but Oksana's no raging beauty either and it didn't hurt her. Kerrigan was a tomboy by nature but her coaches, when Olympics were in sight, explained to her what she had to do to fit the look of the "world class" skater. Kerrigan did her best to comply, although ice princess is as far from her smalltown personality as possible. Yes, there is pigeonholing in this country - pigeonholing of trashy people as victims who still need one more chance - even after they got a boatload of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You don't get it.
I totally get it. Pulling oneself out of that kind of situation is hard. Some people are able to do it and become Oprah and some people aren't. What would Nancy have been like if she'd grown up like Tonya? Would she have been the rare person who had the ability to get out of it relatively unscathed or would she have been a complicated person too? I didn't use the word sympathy BTW, you did, it means something different and more condescending than empathy.

I think we have an obligation as a society to try to create fewer Tonyas and in order to do that one needs to understand the Tonyas AND the ones who made it out, you need to understand both to understand why there will always be more Tonyas than Oprahs so we should try to help less kids be born into that fate that is so hard to scrape your way out of. And try to give resources to those kids who are born there to help them if they show the fortitude to try to get out. Tonya showed that fortitude and was mocked by the media for a long time before that bat was swung.

AND FWIW I am not saying her punishment was unjust, I'm not saying it wasn't understandable to be disgusted with her in the moment. I'm saying that now, 30 years later, we have the ability to view her as a whole three dimensional person which is not something anyone bothered to do back then. Tonya wasn't able to overcome all the obstacles thrown at her. Would you have been? Would Nancy have been? Why do we hold poor people to a standard that we probably couldn't meet ourselves?

No, YOU don't get it. Kerrigan grew up in a poor workingclass family that yes, never had the same vices as Harding, but silver spoon it wasn't. What you all forget that at the time of the attack, Harding was already a national champion, Olympic pewter medalist, World medalist etc. She has made it. She had ample use of free or nearly-free USFSA resources. Stop with the poor Tonya story. She has made it at that point. She could have had a very respectable career with these results. She chose not to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

They hated her for all of those things before she chose to fight dirty. And that made hating her after much easier and more satisfying. She fought dirty because the country and her life had told her that the only person looking out for her was herself. And while what she did was wrong, she was right about that. No one was on Tonya's side except Tonya even BEFORE this happened.

You ask who she was representing at the Olympics and that shows a fundamental misunderstanding of people in her position. She was absolutely representing herself, her only chance. That gold medal wasn't for honor/glory, it was going to be freedom.

And once again I never said sympathy, I said empathy. They aren't the same thing.

What? The country has made her twice national champion. World medalist. Olympic medalist (which 4th place is considered to be). Do you realize how much free stuff, how many breaks, how many resources she has received from USFSA at that point? You think anyone makes it to these heights straight outta trailer park without massive infusion of support?

Stop with the sob story. Learn the facts.

[Anonymous]

Wow pp...a lot of rage to go back and respond to all my posts individually! I knew all that about Kerrigan. Doesn't change my position but thanks for typing it out 5 times!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow pp...a lot of rage to go back and respond to all my posts individually! I knew all that about Kerrigan. Doesn't change my position but thanks for typing it out 5 times!

So... you know Kerrigan grew up poor and workingclass but it doesn't change your position that she grew up wealthy? Because it works better for your story? How does that work, exactly?

It's not rage, it's countering bullshit where it happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow pp...a lot of rage to go back and respond to all my posts individually! I knew all that about Kerrigan. Doesn't change my position but thanks for typing it out 5 times!

So... you know Kerrigan grew up poor and workingclass but it doesn't change your position that she grew up wealthy? Because it works better for your story? How does that work, exactly?

It's not rage, it's countering bullshit where it happens.

It was a comparison. I never said Kerrigan grew up with a silver spoon, but from all accounts she had a financially and emotionally stable happy childhood. I don't think she ever went hungry or had someone drunkenly throw something at her as a child. That is what I meant...and that is wealthy by comparison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

They hated her for all of those things before she chose to fight dirty. And that made hating her after much easier and more satisfying. She fought dirty because the country and her life had told her that the only person looking out for her was herself. And while what she did was wrong, she was right about that. No one was on Tonya's side except Tonya even BEFORE this happened.

You ask who she was representing at the Olympics and that shows a fundamental misunderstanding of people in her position. She was absolutely representing herself, her only chance. That gold medal wasn't for honor/glory, it was going to be freedom.

And once again I never said sympathy, I said empathy. They aren't the same thing.

What? The country has made her twice national champion. World medalist. Olympic medalist (which 4th place is considered to be). Do you realize how much free stuff, how many breaks, how many resources she has received from USFSA at that point? You think anyone makes it to these heights straight outta trailer park without massive infusion of support?

Stop with the sob story. Learn the facts.

But you seem to think someone can make it to those heights, be the first American woman to land a triple axle in competition, and be a lazy loser who didn't put in the work. Which is it?