I'd like to tell Sheryl Sandberg to STFU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Well I think she is doing some good for the world. I'm grateful there are women out there who will sacrifice time with their children for the greater good. I'm not one of those women, so I'm glad they are out there. If every mom cut back dramatically, it would be even more of a man's world than it already is. I think Mark Z is seriously considering running for office and I think she is helping to lay the groundwork. She has done a lot of good for women internationally and women in tech. She did take some time after the death of her husband, but I mean, he died what 2-3 years ago now? Her children are likely thriving in their routine, and i'm sure have loving caregivers who help when she is away.

Again, this lifestyle is not for me, but I don't want every women who has or wants kids to think they can't be a leader.

Are you a woman in tech? I am. I don't think she's done much for women in tech specifically, but I'd be interested if you have a counter-perspective on this. I also think it's disingenuous for her to present herself as a "woman in tech" in the same way that those of us in technical parts of tech companies are.

I'm also curious what qualifications you think Mark Z. has for political office. I don't see it, myself.

(reposting with fixed quotes)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don't be so harsh pp and mind your own business. I don't care for her but she can do what she wants in her private life.

She is not keeping her life private by writing books about it. She is publishing advice for women, all women - very few have the privilege and breaks she has. When she tells women to lean in, it implies we are not working hard enough, we should work harder like her. I wouldn't resent her if she just lived her life, breathed her purified air and also would not pontificate on what women should do. She will never be a role model for me unless she gives a bunch of deserving women a leg up because she can. In my experience many successful women have an attitude of I got mine, now you go get your own, or worse yet go out of their way to hold other women back in a corporate environment.

[Anonymous]

Women are their own worst enemies...
I'd personally like to see more women leaders out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a man, I found the book helpful to realizing some of my own blind spots with respect to female colleagues and also to making sure that I am a "real partner" to my wife and share the household duties 50/50. These aren't revolutionary concepts, and no she isn't exactly breaking new ground. But I thought the book did a good job of highlighting some of the imbalances a lot of well-intentioned men are sometimes oblivious to. It was something that helped me learn and grow.

I honestly didn't find the book preachy or grating like so many of you obviously did. I don't think she ever said anything like "success is easy if you just do 1, 2, and 3. I interpreted her message more as "These are some obstacles that ambitious, driven women are facing in today's workplace. Here are some strategies/devices to deal with them."

Did the book solve all of women's problems? No. Was it a useful contribution? Yes.

It is so easy to criticize and condemn. It's much harder to do something constructive.

I am the poster that was 50/50 on liking her book. Yes, she has some good points. But the other 50 is a real turn off, imagine to us her comments sound like this... when you have parent die and you are crying and grieving and Sheryl says "oh I know how you feel my cat died" .... CAT ... she is trying to be empathetic and helpful but it's like UM WHAT.

Can you direct me to something that she said that is analogous to the your parent dying = my cat dying type of comment? That's just totally inconsistent with what I remember her book to be about, that I don't even understand how to respond. I think that's a real distortion of what she wrote and what her message is.

I don't have access to her book right now but here is an example from her speech at Berkley....

Everyone who has made it through Cal has already experienced some disappointment. You wanted an A but you got a B. OK, let’s be honest—you got an A- but you’re still mad. You applied for an internship at Facebook, but you only got one from Google. She was the love of your life… but then she swiped left.

Here are my disappointments or some of my friends disappointments in college:

1. Best friend at Standford's boyfriend cheated on her, she got herpes, called hysterical, I called her mom, she flew out but she killed herself before her mom arrived.
2. Room mates mom got cancer and could not afford college, moved home and cared fro her mom and worked as a waitress, did not graduate until she was 25.
3. Friend got hit by a car crossing the street lost 1 leg.
4. People had parents die during college
5. People get pregnant during college.

Is a B a disappointment? Is working for Google a disappointment?

My son's school has something where kids talk about the challenges in life... some of them were sexually molested as a child and now live with panic attacks, some physically abused, losing a parent, getting cancer as a child.... this is at a highly regarded school.

The best she had was not getting an internship at Facebook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see why she annoys people. But I also she's calling out some pretty real shit and people don't like hearing it. The idea that who you marry will be the most important decision you make in terms of your career couldn't be more spot on.

I've heard that since before she was born. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

I think we need more Sheryl Sandbergs in this world, from all backgrounds. And we all need to look for them and lift them up. What is the point in tearing her down if she's sharing her truth? If it doesn't resonate with you, change the channel or pick up another book.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a man, I found the book helpful to realizing some of my own blind spots with respect to female colleagues and also to making sure that I am a "real partner" to my wife and share the household duties 50/50. These aren't revolutionary concepts, and no she isn't exactly breaking new ground. But I thought the book did a good job of highlighting some of the imbalances a lot of well-intentioned men are sometimes oblivious to. It was something that helped me learn and grow.

I honestly didn't find the book preachy or grating like so many of you obviously did. I don't think she ever said anything like "success is easy if you just do 1, 2, and 3. I interpreted her message more as "These are some obstacles that ambitious, driven women are facing in today's workplace. Here are some strategies/devices to deal with them."

Did the book solve all of women's problems? No. Was it a useful contribution? Yes.

It is so easy to criticize and condemn. It's much harder to do something constructive.

I am the poster that was 50/50 on liking her book. Yes, she has some good points. But the other 50 is a real turn off, imagine to us her comments sound like this... when you have parent die and you are crying and grieving and Sheryl says "oh I know how you feel my cat died" .... CAT ... she is trying to be empathetic and helpful but it's like UM WHAT.

Can you direct me to something that she said that is analogous to the your parent dying = my cat dying type of comment? That's just totally inconsistent with what I remember her book to be about, that I don't even understand how to respond. I think that's a real distortion of what she wrote and what her message is.

I don't have access to her book right now but here is an example from her speech at Berkley....

Everyone who has made it through Cal has already experienced some disappointment. You wanted an A but you got a B. OK, let’s be honest—you got an A- but you’re still mad. You applied for an internship at Facebook, but you only got one from Google. She was the love of your life… but then she swiped left.

Here are my disappointments or some of my friends disappointments in college:

1. Best friend at Standford's boyfriend cheated on her, she got herpes, called hysterical, I called her mom, she flew out but she killed herself before her mom arrived.
2. Room mates mom got cancer and could not afford college, moved home and cared fro her mom and worked as a waitress, did not graduate until she was 25.
3. Friend got hit by a car crossing the street lost 1 leg.
4. People had parents die during college
5. People get pregnant during college.

Is a B a disappointment? Is working for Google a disappointment?

My son's school has something where kids talk about the challenges in life... some of them were sexually molested as a child and now live with panic attacks, some physically abused, losing a parent, getting cancer as a child.... this is at a highly regarded school.

The best she had was not getting an internship at Facebook.

It's called tailoring your message to your audience...

Of course that's not the worst thing that's ever happened to her.

[Anonymous]

Um, have you read some of the postings on Dcum about parents lived virtually ending because little Larlo didn't get into an ivy?

I agree with the pp who didn't mind her, but pointed out that she has made herself a public figure now- not a private business woman. Once she does some things to help other women, instead of just selling a book, I will have more interest in her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a man, I found the book helpful to realizing some of my own blind spots with respect to female colleagues and also to making sure that I am a "real partner" to my wife and share the household duties 50/50. These aren't revolutionary concepts, and no she isn't exactly breaking new ground. But I thought the book did a good job of highlighting some of the imbalances a lot of well-intentioned men are sometimes oblivious to. It was something that helped me learn and grow.

I honestly didn't find the book preachy or grating like so many of you obviously did. I don't think she ever said anything like "success is easy if you just do 1, 2, and 3. I interpreted her message more as "These are some obstacles that ambitious, driven women are facing in today's workplace. Here are some strategies/devices to deal with them."

Did the book solve all of women's problems? No. Was it a useful contribution? Yes.

It is so easy to criticize and condemn. It's much harder to do something constructive.

I am the poster that was 50/50 on liking her book. Yes, she has some good points. But the other 50 is a real turn off, imagine to us her comments sound like this... when you have parent die and you are crying and grieving and Sheryl says "oh I know how you feel my cat died" .... CAT ... she is trying to be empathetic and helpful but it's like UM WHAT.

Can you direct me to something that she said that is analogous to the your parent dying = my cat dying type of comment? That's just totally inconsistent with what I remember her book to be about, that I don't even understand how to respond. I think that's a real distortion of what she wrote and what her message is.

I don't have access to her book right now but here is an example from her speech at Berkley....

Everyone who has made it through Cal has already experienced some disappointment. You wanted an A but you got a B. OK, let’s be honest—you got an A- but you’re still mad. You applied for an internship at Facebook, but you only got one from Google. She was the love of your life… but then she swiped left.

Here are my disappointments or some of my friends disappointments in college:

1. Best friend at Standford's boyfriend cheated on her, she got herpes, called hysterical, I called her mom, she flew out but she killed herself before her mom arrived.
2. Room mates mom got cancer and could not afford college, moved home and cared fro her mom and worked as a waitress, did not graduate until she was 25.
3. Friend got hit by a car crossing the street lost 1 leg.
4. People had parents die during college
5. People get pregnant during college.

Is a B a disappointment? Is working for Google a disappointment?

My son's school has something where kids talk about the challenges in life... some of them were sexually molested as a child and now live with panic attacks, some physically abused, losing a parent, getting cancer as a child.... this is at a highly regarded school.

The best she had was not getting an internship at Facebook.

Right, so her commencement speech should have been "Everyone who has made it through Cal has already experienced some disappointment. Some of you have lost a leg crossing a street, and others of you have killed yourselves."

Doesn't this seem a little silly? Obviously, people have worse problems in life than what Sandberg outlined. But, it's a commencement address. She's talking to the middle of the audience here -- the everyday disappointments of not doing as well as your expectations or getting a job rejection. That's perfectly normal fodder for every commencement speech ever. I've never heard of a commencement speech talking about how the students have been molested or their parents have died or gotten cancer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Well I think she is doing some good for the world. I'm grateful there are women out there who will sacrifice time with their children for the greater good. I'm not one of those women, so I'm glad they are out there. If every mom cut back dramatically, it would be even more of a man's world than it already is. I think Mark Z is seriously considering running for office and I think she is helping to lay the groundwork. She has done a lot of good for women internationally and women in tech. She did take some time after the death of her husband, but I mean, he died what 2-3 years ago now? Her children are likely thriving in their routine, and i'm sure have loving caregivers who help when she is away.

Again, this lifestyle is not for me, but I don't want every women who has or wants kids to think they can't be a leader.

Are you a woman in tech? I am. I don't think she's done much for women in tech specifically, but I'd be interested if you have a counter-perspective on this. I also think it's disingenuous for her to present herself as a "woman in tech" in the same way that those of us in technical parts of tech companies are.

I'm also curious what qualifications you think Mark Z. has for political office. I don't see it, myself.

(reposting with fixed quotes)

PP - I work for a tech company but would not say I'm a woman in tech. So fair enough. I do think she's done good for the world. Donating to Planned Parenthood and not being shy about it, and trying to start a conversation with Lean In, even if it wasn't perfect. I also have heard Facebook has some good policies in terms of flexibility etc., but just from one friend who works there. And, I do think it's helpful to have a woman in the c-suite of a powerful, global, well known company. I also think Marissa Mayer gets painted unfairly - there is a line of CEOs before her that failed Yahoo. When she took it over, it was well known it was probably past the point of no return. And yet she gets the blame for others' mistake. How many men have left failing companies and do we bitch about their parenting or their management style on DCUM? Nope.

I don't know if Mark Z is necessarily qualified or frankly interested, but I got the sense he was like a lot of us, stunned and saddened by where we are politically now and wants to do something. I do believe he and his wife are good people, like the Gates, who are using their influence and wealth to try to make a difference, and I see sheryl as part of that.

I actually enjoyed Lean In, and found it helpful, but the message seemed to be that it didn't address all women and every situation - and I just don't agree with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think we need more Sheryl Sandbergs in this world, from all backgrounds. And we all need to look for them and lift them up. What is the point in tearing her down if she's sharing her truth? If it doesn't resonate with you, change the channel or pick up another book.

Yes.
This post is part of the reason women haven't risen to the top in the workplace. Everyone wants to cut down and poke holes in an aspiring lifting message from one of the most successful women in Corporate America (through her own hard work- not through marriage or working for Dad). This board is one excuse after another about what's holding women back from success or tearing down Sandberg's success. We have enough to overcome from men, so shouldn't women pull together even more? How about just looking at some of the VERY valid points in the book to help yourself like:
- pick and marry a good life partner (if you don't everything can fall apart. true)
- Don't leave before you leave. I've seen too many women mentally check out or start planning for part-time, while they are pregnant or even just thinking about starting a family. You haven't even had the kid yet. Who knows yet if you really want to stop working.
- attach yourself and become indispensable to bosses above you. When you are their go-to person, they will pull you up with them.

Meanwhile, men pull each other up, look out for each other, overlook the negative, give each other breaks and second chances.
Many women, like me, who work in upper management, know we have to work almost twice as hard as men to overcome all the male... and female bullshit.
I wonder how much further we could go, if women truly supported and cheered for each other the way men do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think we need more Sheryl Sandbergs in this world, from all backgrounds. And we all need to look for them and lift them up. What is the point in tearing her down if she's sharing her truth? If it doesn't resonate with you, change the channel or pick up another book.

Yes.
This post is part of the reason women haven't risen to the top in the workplace. Everyone wants to cut down and poke holes in an aspiring lifting message from one of the most successful women in Corporate America (through her own hard work- not through marriage or working for Dad). This board is one excuse after another about what's holding women back from success or tearing down Sandberg's success. We have enough to overcome from men, so shouldn't women pull together even more? How about just looking at some of the VERY valid points in the book to help yourself like:
- pick and marry a good life partner (if you don't everything can fall apart. true)
- Don't leave before you leave. I've seen too many women mentally check out or start planning for part-time, while they are pregnant or even just thinking about starting a family. You haven't even had the kid yet. Who knows yet if you really want to stop working.
- attach yourself and become indispensable to bosses above you. When you are their go-to person, they will pull you up with them.

Meanwhile, men pull each other up, look out for each other, overlook the negative, give each other breaks and second chances.
Many women, like me, who work in upper management, know we have to work almost twice as hard as men to overcome all the male... and female bullshit.
I wonder how much further we could go, if women truly supported and cheered for each other the way men do.

+1000. It makes me so sad, whether it is a successful well known woman, or just the usual crapping on working moms or stay at home moms, DCUM is all about putting women down. If a successful woman like Sandberg has a message, it is shot down because it doesn't resonate with everyone, perfectly, in every stage of their life, and she can't possibly relate to the average woman, even though, for many years she WAS the average woman who achieved a great deal of success...which is the damn point of her book.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Well I think she is doing some good for the world. I'm grateful there are women out there who will sacrifice time with their children for the greater good. I'm not one of those women, so I'm glad they are out there. If every mom cut back dramatically, it would be even more of a man's world than it already is. I think Mark Z is seriously considering running for office and I think she is helping to lay the groundwork. She has done a lot of good for women internationally and women in tech. She did take some time after the death of her husband, but I mean, he died what 2-3 years ago now? Her children are likely thriving in their routine, and i'm sure have loving caregivers who help when she is away.

Again, this lifestyle is not for me, but I don't want every women who has or wants kids to think they can't be a leader.

Are you a woman in tech? I am. I don't think she's done much for women in tech specifically, but I'd be interested if you have a counter-perspective on this. I also think it's disingenuous for her to present herself as a "woman in tech" in the same way that those of us in technical parts of tech companies are.

I'm also curious what qualifications you think Mark Z. has for political office. I don't see it, myself.

(reposting with fixed quotes)

PP - I work for a tech company but would not say I'm a woman in tech. So fair enough. I do think she's done good for the world. Donating to Planned Parenthood and not being shy about it, and trying to start a conversation with Lean In, even if it wasn't perfect. I also have heard Facebook has some good policies in terms of flexibility etc., but just from one friend who works there. And, I do think it's helpful to have a woman in the c-suite of a powerful, global, well known company. I also think Marissa Mayer gets painted unfairly - there is a line of CEOs before her that failed Yahoo. When she took it over, it was well known it was probably past the point of no return. And yet she gets the blame for others' mistake. How many men have left failing companies and do we bitch about their parenting or their management style on DCUM? Nope.

I don't know if Mark Z is necessarily qualified or frankly interested, but I got the sense he was like a lot of us, stunned and saddened by where we are politically now and wants to do something. I do believe he and his wife are good people, like the Gates, who are using their influence and wealth to try to make a difference, and I see sheryl as part of that.

I actually enjoyed Lean In, and found it helpful, but the message seemed to be that it didn't address all women and every situation - and I just don't agree with that.

PPs on this thread have leveled several other criticisms of her...you should read this thread and the other one. The problem with SS is that she paints herself as a woman's advocate, when there's little evidence that she is. Fine, I'm glad she donated publicly to PP...my sister used her risk her life crossing picket lines to work there. I'm not going to go into my thoughts about how to evaluate flexibility policies at SV companies, but I don't think FB is outside the norm of its competitors. I would have a lot more respect for her if she were just good at her job and didn't try to start a "movement" through a best-selling book.

I really don't know how to evaluate your perspective on Mark Z, along with your comparing him to Gates. Gates has a mixed record on some issues, but what's undeniable is that he stepped down from his job at MS to start a foundation and has devoted tons of time, resources, and energy to trying to understand the most effective way to make change in the world. I agree that Zuckerberg seems like he's inclined to want to do good in the world as well, but that in no way makes him qualified for public office unless he demonstrates that he's willing to learn about policy and social issues the hard way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a man, I found the book helpful to realizing some of my own blind spots with respect to female colleagues and also to making sure that I am a "real partner" to my wife and share the household duties 50/50. These aren't revolutionary concepts, and no she isn't exactly breaking new ground. But I thought the book did a good job of highlighting some of the imbalances a lot of well-intentioned men are sometimes oblivious to. It was something that helped me learn and grow.

I honestly didn't find the book preachy or grating like so many of you obviously did. I don't think she ever said anything like "success is easy if you just do 1, 2, and 3. I interpreted her message more as "These are some obstacles that ambitious, driven women are facing in today's workplace. Here are some strategies/devices to deal with them."

Did the book solve all of women's problems? No. Was it a useful contribution? Yes.

It is so easy to criticize and condemn. It's much harder to do something constructive.

I am the poster that was 50/50 on liking her book. Yes, she has some good points. But the other 50 is a real turn off, imagine to us her comments sound like this... when you have parent die and you are crying and grieving and Sheryl says "oh I know how you feel my cat died" .... CAT ... she is trying to be empathetic and helpful but it's like UM WHAT.

Can you direct me to something that she said that is analogous to the your parent dying = my cat dying type of comment? That's just totally inconsistent with what I remember her book to be about, that I don't even understand how to respond. I think that's a real distortion of what she wrote and what her message is.

I don't have access to her book right now but here is an example from her speech at Berkley....

Everyone who has made it through Cal has already experienced some disappointment. You wanted an A but you got a B. OK, let’s be honest—you got an A- but you’re still mad. You applied for an internship at Facebook, but you only got one from Google. She was the love of your life… but then she swiped left.

Here are my disappointments or some of my friends disappointments in college:

1. Best friend at Standford's boyfriend cheated on her, she got herpes, called hysterical, I called her mom, she flew out but she killed herself before her mom arrived.
2. Room mates mom got cancer and could not afford college, moved home and cared fro her mom and worked as a waitress, did not graduate until she was 25.
3. Friend got hit by a car crossing the street lost 1 leg.
4. People had parents die during college
5. People get pregnant during college.

Is a B a disappointment? Is working for Google a disappointment?

My son's school has something where kids talk about the challenges in life... some of them were sexually molested as a child and now live with panic attacks, some physically abused, losing a parent, getting cancer as a child.... this is at a highly regarded school.

The best she had was not getting an internship at Facebook.

It's called tailoring your message to your audience...

Of course that's not the worst thing that's ever happened to her.

It was tailored for 8th graders. Surely Berkeley students have dealt with death, rape, unwanted pregnancy, cancer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a man, I found the book helpful to realizing some of my own blind spots with respect to female colleagues and also to making sure that I am a "real partner" to my wife and share the household duties 50/50. These aren't revolutionary concepts, and no she isn't exactly breaking new ground. But I thought the book did a good job of highlighting some of the imbalances a lot of well-intentioned men are sometimes oblivious to. It was something that helped me learn and grow.

I honestly didn't find the book preachy or grating like so many of you obviously did. I don't think she ever said anything like "success is easy if you just do 1, 2, and 3. I interpreted her message more as "These are some obstacles that ambitious, driven women are facing in today's workplace. Here are some strategies/devices to deal with them."

Did the book solve all of women's problems? No. Was it a useful contribution? Yes.

It is so easy to criticize and condemn. It's much harder to do something constructive.

I am the poster that was 50/50 on liking her book. Yes, she has some good points. But the other 50 is a real turn off, imagine to us her comments sound like this... when you have parent die and you are crying and grieving and Sheryl says "oh I know how you feel my cat died" .... CAT ... she is trying to be empathetic and helpful but it's like UM WHAT.

Can you direct me to something that she said that is analogous to the your parent dying = my cat dying type of comment? That's just totally inconsistent with what I remember her book to be about, that I don't even understand how to respond. I think that's a real distortion of what she wrote and what her message is.

I don't have access to her book right now but here is an example from her speech at Berkley....

Everyone who has made it through Cal has already experienced some disappointment. You wanted an A but you got a B. OK, let’s be honest—you got an A- but you’re still mad. You applied for an internship at Facebook, but you only got one from Google. She was the love of your life… but then she swiped left.

Here are my disappointments or some of my friends disappointments in college:

1. Best friend at Standford's boyfriend cheated on her, she got herpes, called hysterical, I called her mom, she flew out but she killed herself before her mom arrived.
2. Room mates mom got cancer and could not afford college, moved home and cared fro her mom and worked as a waitress, did not graduate until she was 25.
3. Friend got hit by a car crossing the street lost 1 leg.
4. People had parents die during college
5. People get pregnant during college.

Is a B a disappointment? Is working for Google a disappointment?

My son's school has something where kids talk about the challenges in life... some of them were sexually molested as a child and now live with panic attacks, some physically abused, losing a parent, getting cancer as a child.... this is at a highly regarded school.

The best she had was not getting an internship at Facebook.

Right, so her commencement speech should have been "Everyone who has made it through Cal has already experienced some disappointment. Some of you have lost a leg crossing a street, and others of you have killed yourselves."

Doesn't this seem a little silly? Obviously, people have worse problems in life than what Sandberg outlined. But, it's a commencement address. She's talking to the middle of the audience here -- the everyday disappointments of not doing as well as your expectations or getting a job rejection. That's perfectly normal fodder for every commencement speech ever. I've never heard of a commencement speech talking about how the students have been molested or their parents have died or gotten cancer.

No. It does not seem silly.

She is a widow! She could have said something like... I never thought about it before, but I know people have lost parents during college, or a friend. I can't even imagine what you went through. I have a safety net. I can fail at work and my boss... You know mark z, he has my back. I wonder did you have that support? You had to endure that incredible grief, as a young person, and still find a way to graduate from College. Just like I have to wake up each morning and be a mom, I just can't stop being a mom.

Something... Anything less contrite and robotic.

I have heard many commencements talk about loss, grieving and hardship. I will find one and post it for you. After most serious points a light hearted statement is made to lighten up the commencement. But her address is so robotic. She is not talking to the middle she is talking to the younger siblings in the audience.