Question about re zoning elementary schools in S. Arlington

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to run away. You can't fix it on the timetable that your kids are in elementary. It takes you til about grade 1 or 2 to realize that they are not getting what they need and then you only have 3 more years before they go to middle. So you leave.

But if you leave, no one holds the schools to account. The problems ignored because people will just leave. It seems odd to me because most of my neighbors have stayed. So go choice, but more are going to Randolph and Barcroft.

Demand more. You're already paying for it.

What, specifically, would you demand? Boundary changes that bring in a large UMC cohort is all that matters.

Or eliminate the option schools so people can't flee.

For the umpteenth time! You can't force people to attend a school! All schools are choice schools. Without option schools people will just move or go private. They already do!

Yeah, glebe looks pretty good. Arlnow story just posted about how their PTA cleared $88k in one nights auction. What is that, the sum total of all pta funds raised in the neediest SA schools in the
last five years? I can't imagine how much tuckahoe's or jamestown's auction raises.

welllll, they didn't exactly clear it....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You have to run away. You can't fix it on the timetable that your kids are in elementary. It takes you til about grade 1 or 2 to realize that they are not getting what they need and then you only have 3 more years before they go to middle. So you leave.

You CAN fix it - people just won't let APS fix it because they won't allow boundaries that change anything.

[Anonymous]

And a lot of us understand that, even if our kids aren't experiencing the same fast-paced classrooms and group projects and putting on musical productions during elementary school, they are not forever doomed to failure and poverty. Kids from every elementary school go on to thrive in middle and high school on par with the kids who did experience all those things in elementary. Do I feel my kids missed out or could have had more exciting elementary experiences? to some extent, yes. Do my kids know any differently? No. And they get the same high SOL scores those more privileged kids in low-poverty schools get. But they aren't looking at a kid in the neighborhood park and asking him where he lives and goes to school because it's obvious by his skin color or speech that he doesn't go to theirs.

+1

-Parent at a "bad" school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to run away. You can't fix it on the timetable that your kids are in elementary. It takes you til about grade 1 or 2 to realize that they are not getting what they need and then you only have 3 more years before they go to middle. So you leave.

But if you leave, no one holds the schools to account. The problems ignored because people will just leave. It seems odd to me because most of my neighbors have stayed. So go choice, but more are going to Randolph and Barcroft.

Demand more. You're already paying for it.

What, specifically, would you demand? Boundary changes that bring in a large UMC cohort is all that matters.

Or eliminate the option schools so people can't flee.

For the umpteenth time! You can't force people to attend a school! All schools are choice schools. Without option schools people will just move or go private. They already do!

Sure, some people will do that. They'll enjoy their 2 hour commutes from Leesburg. There's an extreme shortage of reasonably priced homes with good commutes to downtown. Most of us want to see our children and not spend our lives in the car.

They don't need to move to Leesburg. They have enough equity to move to North Arlington, like their neighbors before them. Or, they are just plain wealthy enough not to need public schools. Have you not seen the price of real estate for anyone moving here now?

Just doing away with option schools won't make people put their kid in a school where they will be alone. Option schools are the most integrated schools in Arlington, and they are voluntarily integrated. You can't force integration (look at Alexandria). But you can encourage it, by making boundaries that reasonably prioritize demographic diversity and by strategically placing the option schools where diversity needs to be encouraged. People down here don't need or even expect schools that can raise $88,000 in one night. But they do expect their child not to be an extreme outlier. And while I personally don't think being an economic or racial/ethnic minority would be a socially or even academically detrimental experience for a white UMC kid, I also know that pretty much nobody else in my demographic feels the same way. Otherwise, we wouldn't have these intractably segregated schools in the first place.

Every true. As an educated minority, I'm glad you understand that.

North Arlington exemplifies the UMC educational arms race. People would rather cram into the zoning of a few schools and fight tooth and nail to stay there (and keep the FARMS out) than uplift another community. There was another thread, I think the North/South divide one where someone mentioned trying to balance the number of FARMS/ELLs across the schools South of 50. That would be something. Personally, I think it should be county wide (other jurisdictions have done it). I know it's not the Arlington way, but something has the change. People forget that N Arlington was working class just 20 years ago. Look at how parts of DC have changed. Hell, Park Slope. Things change. You just need to demand it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
And a lot of us understand that, even if our kids aren't experiencing the same fast-paced classrooms and group projects and putting on musical productions during elementary school, they are not forever doomed to failure and poverty. Kids from every elementary school go on to thrive in middle and high school on par with the kids who did experience all those things in elementary. Do I feel my kids missed out or could have had more exciting elementary experiences? to some extent, yes. Do my kids know any differently? No. And they get the same high SOL scores those more privileged kids in low-poverty schools get. But they aren't looking at a kid in the neighborhood park and asking him where he lives and goes to school because it's obvious by his skin color or speech that he doesn't go to theirs.

+1

-Parent at a "bad" school

Dude, just cause you are willing to settle for a mediocre educational experience for your kid doesn't mean the rest of us should. You do you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
And a lot of us understand that, even if our kids aren't experiencing the same fast-paced classrooms and group projects and putting on musical productions during elementary school, they are not forever doomed to failure and poverty. Kids from every elementary school go on to thrive in middle and high school on par with the kids who did experience all those things in elementary. Do I feel my kids missed out or could have had more exciting elementary experiences? to some extent, yes. Do my kids know any differently? No. And they get the same high SOL scores those more privileged kids in low-poverty schools get. But they aren't looking at a kid in the neighborhood park and asking him where he lives and goes to school because it's obvious by his skin color or speech that he doesn't go to theirs.

+1

-Parent at a "bad" school

Dude, just cause you are willing to settle for a mediocre educational experience for your kid doesn't mean the rest of us should. You do you.

Obviously, you're one of those who don't understand the concept above. So, good for you. Our kids will be sitting next to yours in middle school, or in their AP/IB high school classes, or even sitting the other side of the desk waiting for your kid to come in for his/her interview.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
And a lot of us understand that, even if our kids aren't experiencing the same fast-paced classrooms and group projects and putting on musical productions during elementary school, they are not forever doomed to failure and poverty. Kids from every elementary school go on to thrive in middle and high school on par with the kids who did experience all those things in elementary. Do I feel my kids missed out or could have had more exciting elementary experiences? to some extent, yes. Do my kids know any differently? No. And they get the same high SOL scores those more privileged kids in low-poverty schools get. But they aren't looking at a kid in the neighborhood park and asking him where he lives and goes to school because it's obvious by his skin color or speech that he doesn't go to theirs.

+1

-Parent at a "bad" school

Dude, just cause you are willing to settle for a mediocre educational experience for your kid doesn't mean the rest of us should. You do you.

Obviously, you're one of those who don't understand the concept above. So, good for you. Our kids will be sitting next to yours in middle school, or in their AP/IB high school classes, or even sitting the other side of the desk waiting for your kid to come in for his/her interview.

I understand perfectly. J just don't agree. I'm not going to validate your individual choice. It's yours, not mine. If it makes you feel better to think you're chill, and I'm high strung, ok. But the reality is we're not talking about elite Manhattan day cares. We're talking about public elementary schools. I'm a laid back midwesterner and sh1t here isn't normal. It's segregated, and wrong.

[Anonymous]

If the Arlington School Board proposed to sprinkle the poors equally between north and south, there would literally be a civil war in Arlington County. The families in North would claim they should not be forced to pay for the “poor” decisions of the families in the South. And the families in the South would claim that the families in the North should pay. In a capitalistic society where you have winners and poors, you will always have this dymamic- the wealthy want to stay away from the poors and the poors want to stay away from the other poors and latch onto the resources of the wealthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the Arlington School Board proposed to sprinkle the poors equally between north and south, there would literally be a civil war in Arlington County. The families in North would claim they should not be forced to pay for the “poor” decisions of the families in the South. And the families in the South would claim that the families in the North should pay. In a capitalistic society where you have winners and poors, you will always have this dymamic- the wealthy want to stay away from the poors and the poors want to stay away from the other poors and latch onto the resources of the wealthy.

If there was equity, there would not be "poor" decisions. We all pay taxes, we're all entitled to equal education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sort of surprised there isn't some type of cottage industry cram schools in S Arlington for elem, they way people talk. Or there is and I just missed it?

Huh?

After school learning enrichment. If so many people are complaining about the schools, why isn't (or is there) a market for after school enrichment to fill the gaps so that kids aren't behind for middle school?

Not the PP you were responding to, but how could after school enrichment help kids who are missing out on daily instruction? If kids aren't keeping pace with kids in other parts of Arlington, what is an hour after school going to do? If half the schools are covering an entire year's worth of curriculum in a far more accelerated way (and I don't know that this is true, it's just what I've heard from a couple people who have moved or switched to option schools and found their kids who had been "advanced" were now "behind"), what type of enrichment do you envision that can replace daily instruction? Also, the schools where this might be an issue are also the ones whose PTAs do not have the $$ or organizational manpower to offer these enrichment programs. Again, I don't know that this is true, but it does seem that a couple high-needs schools have lower targets for their students, so students who could be learning might be missing out. This would include children from every demographic. My general observation is that, barring an educational impediment, kids will rise to the occasion. If you expect excellence, you will get excellence.

I don't know, which is why I asked. You do raise valid points, I am asking if there were efforts or ways to address the problem. For example, if you can't get into a choice school, can't move, but you don't want your child to be behind when they move to middle school, do you supplement with such a program? It would nice if a PTA sponsored something like this, but I assumed it would be something commercial, like Kumon, that a family would pursue on their own. It would not replace daily instruction, but would add to it.

If daily instruction is so bad that the kids aren't being educated, that is a whole different issue. From what I have heard, no one is complaining about that, but rather N Arlington schools seem to be ahead in subject matter, versus kids in the South not learning anything.

The thing is, a family can always move if they want to badly enough. It might be expensive and inconvenient, but moving is always an option.

That's what the SB is praying all these pesky SA families do.

That is essentially the county and school boards attitude to school quality. The only people they believe are entitled to live here are the impoverished and the wealthy. And they are supposed to live in south and north Arlington, respectively, so their political priorities dont conflict. It's the people in between they believe should just F off already and move to fairfax so that our elected leaders look like they have a clue about governing.

The appearance of gov competence completely foundered once office vacancy went up and people stopped moving to fairfax to raise families. Now the sb and cb has to do something other that cut checks for nice to haves and they have zero experience. Housing is now so expensive here that people who would've lived in NA 20 years ago now live in SA, and not inexpensively. Guess what? people who spend 600k on a starter home expect a school to match. This problem is not going to go away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sort of surprised there isn't some type of cottage industry cram schools in S Arlington for elem, they way people talk. Or there is and I just missed it?

Huh?

After school learning enrichment. If so many people are complaining about the schools, why isn't (or is there) a market for after school enrichment to fill the gaps so that kids aren't behind for middle school?

Not the PP you were responding to, but how could after school enrichment help kids who are missing out on daily instruction? If kids aren't keeping pace with kids in other parts of Arlington, what is an hour after school going to do? If half the schools are covering an entire year's worth of curriculum in a far more accelerated way (and I don't know that this is true, it's just what I've heard from a couple people who have moved or switched to option schools and found their kids who had been "advanced" were now "behind"), what type of enrichment do you envision that can replace daily instruction? Also, the schools where this might be an issue are also the ones whose PTAs do not have the $$ or organizational manpower to offer these enrichment programs. Again, I don't know that this is true, but it does seem that a couple high-needs schools have lower targets for their students, so students who could be learning might be missing out. This would include children from every demographic. My general observation is that, barring an educational impediment, kids will rise to the occasion. If you expect excellence, you will get excellence.

I don't know, which is why I asked. You do raise valid points, I am asking if there were efforts or ways to address the problem. For example, if you can't get into a choice school, can't move, but you don't want your child to be behind when they move to middle school, do you supplement with such a program? It would nice if a PTA sponsored something like this, but I assumed it would be something commercial, like Kumon, that a family would pursue on their own. It would not replace daily instruction, but would add to it.

If daily instruction is so bad that the kids aren't being educated, that is a whole different issue. From what I have heard, no one is complaining about that, but rather N Arlington schools seem to be ahead in subject matter, versus kids in the South not learning anything.

The thing is, a family can always move if they want to badly enough. It might be expensive and inconvenient, but moving is always an option.

That's what the SB is praying all these pesky SA families do.

That is essentially the county and school boards attitude to school quality. The only people they believe are entitled to live here are the impoverished and the wealthy. And they are supposed to live in south and north Arlington, respectively, so their political priorities dont conflict. It's the people in between they believe should just F off already and move to fairfax so that our elected leaders look like they have a clue about governing.

The appearance of gov competence completely foundered once office vacancy went up and people stopped moving to fairfax to raise families. Now the sb and cb has to do something other that cut checks for nice to haves and they have zero experience. Housing is now so expensive here that people who would've lived in NA 20 years ago now live in SA, and not inexpensively. Guess what? people who spend 600k on a starter home expect a school to match. This problem is not going to go away.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sort of surprised there isn't some type of cottage industry cram schools in S Arlington for elem, they way people talk. Or there is and I just missed it?

Huh?

After school learning enrichment. If so many people are complaining about the schools, why isn't (or is there) a market for after school enrichment to fill the gaps so that kids aren't behind for middle school?

Not the PP you were responding to, but how could after school enrichment help kids who are missing out on daily instruction? If kids aren't keeping pace with kids in other parts of Arlington, what is an hour after school going to do? If half the schools are covering an entire year's worth of curriculum in a far more accelerated way (and I don't know that this is true, it's just what I've heard from a couple people who have moved or switched to option schools and found their kids who had been "advanced" were now "behind"), what type of enrichment do you envision that can replace daily instruction? Also, the schools where this might be an issue are also the ones whose PTAs do not have the $$ or organizational manpower to offer these enrichment programs. Again, I don't know that this is true, but it does seem that a couple high-needs schools have lower targets for their students, so students who could be learning might be missing out. This would include children from every demographic. My general observation is that, barring an educational impediment, kids will rise to the occasion. If you expect excellence, you will get excellence.

I don't know, which is why I asked. You do raise valid points, I am asking if there were efforts or ways to address the problem. For example, if you can't get into a choice school, can't move, but you don't want your child to be behind when they move to middle school, do you supplement with such a program? It would nice if a PTA sponsored something like this, but I assumed it would be something commercial, like Kumon, that a family would pursue on their own. It would not replace daily instruction, but would add to it.

If daily instruction is so bad that the kids aren't being educated, that is a whole different issue. From what I have heard, no one is complaining about that, but rather N Arlington schools seem to be ahead in subject matter, versus kids in the South not learning anything.

The thing is, a family can always move if they want to badly enough. It might be expensive and inconvenient, but moving is always an option.

That's what the SB is praying all these pesky SA families do.

That is essentially the county and school boards attitude to school quality. The only people they believe are entitled to live here are the impoverished and the wealthy. And they are supposed to live in south and north Arlington, respectively, so their political priorities dont conflict. It's the people in between they believe should just F off already and move to fairfax so that our elected leaders look like they have a clue about governing.

The appearance of gov competence completely foundered once office vacancy went up and people stopped moving to fairfax to raise families. Now the sb and cb has to do something other that cut checks for nice to haves and they have zero experience. Housing is now so expensive here that people who would've lived in NA 20 years ago now live in SA, and not inexpensively. Guess what? people who spend 600k on a starter home expect a school to match. This problem is not going to go away.

But a $600k starter home in fact does go hand and hand with a school that is majority FARMS. You have champagne taste on a minimum wage salary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sort of surprised there isn't some type of cottage industry cram schools in S Arlington for elem, they way people talk. Or there is and I just missed it?

Huh?

After school learning enrichment. If so many people are complaining about the schools, why isn't (or is there) a market for after school enrichment to fill the gaps so that kids aren't behind for middle school?

Not the PP you were responding to, but how could after school enrichment help kids who are missing out on daily instruction? If kids aren't keeping pace with kids in other parts of Arlington, what is an hour after school going to do? If half the schools are covering an entire year's worth of curriculum in a far more accelerated way (and I don't know that this is true, it's just what I've heard from a couple people who have moved or switched to option schools and found their kids who had been "advanced" were now "behind"), what type of enrichment do you envision that can replace daily instruction? Also, the schools where this might be an issue are also the ones whose PTAs do not have the $$ or organizational manpower to offer these enrichment programs. Again, I don't know that this is true, but it does seem that a couple high-needs schools have lower targets for their students, so students who could be learning might be missing out. This would include children from every demographic. My general observation is that, barring an educational impediment, kids will rise to the occasion. If you expect excellence, you will get excellence.

I don't know, which is why I asked. You do raise valid points, I am asking if there were efforts or ways to address the problem. For example, if you can't get into a choice school, can't move, but you don't want your child to be behind when they move to middle school, do you supplement with such a program? It would nice if a PTA sponsored something like this, but I assumed it would be something commercial, like Kumon, that a family would pursue on their own. It would not replace daily instruction, but would add to it.

If daily instruction is so bad that the kids aren't being educated, that is a whole different issue. From what I have heard, no one is complaining about that, but rather N Arlington schools seem to be ahead in subject matter, versus kids in the South not learning anything.

The thing is, a family can always move if they want to badly enough. It might be expensive and inconvenient, but moving is always an option.

That's what the SB is praying all these pesky SA families do.

That is essentially the county and school boards attitude to school quality. The only people they believe are entitled to live here are the impoverished and the wealthy. And they are supposed to live in south and north Arlington, respectively, so their political priorities dont conflict. It's the people in between they believe should just F off already and move to fairfax so that our elected leaders look like they have a clue about governing.

The appearance of gov competence completely foundered once office vacancy went up and people stopped moving to fairfax to raise families. Now the sb and cb has to do something other that cut checks for nice to haves and they have zero experience. Housing is now so expensive here that people who would've lived in NA 20 years ago now live in SA, and not inexpensively. Guess what? people who spend 600k on a starter home expect a school to match. This problem is not going to go away.

But a $600k starter home in fact does go hand and hand with a school that is majority FARMS. You have champagne taste on a minimum wage salary.

LOL. So wanting a school where only half the kids in every class are on food stamps is "champagne"? Pass the bottle. Thats not remotely acceptable to anyone in NA so what's above champagne? The blood of unicorns?

[Anonymous]

Must we go around and around again on this? I'd like a separate APS board with a sticky at the top that says these:

1. Housing policy creates segregation.
2. School board can't fix problems of #1 without busing.
3. No one, rich or poor, wants to be bused.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Must we go around and around again on this? I'd like a separate APS board with a sticky at the top that says these:

1. Housing policy creates segregation.
2. School board can't fix problems of #1 without busing.
3. No one, rich or poor, wants to be bused.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Yup. Love making self satisfied liberals in NA face their inner conservatism.