Parents who don't allow their kids to major in liberal arts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quite frankly, and I am speaking as manager who has been involved in hiring college graduates for many years, we prefer those who have a STEM degree for the most part.

Now if a liberal arts major is from a top notch school, that would be a positive. The only reasonably assured path for someone with a liberal arts degree is to then go to grad school, law school or the medical field or a field where there are decent employment prospects.

I am not impressed with examples of people who went to a liberal arts school and then did very well whether they majored in philosophy, etc. There was a time through the nineties when that was a viable route to well paying jobs. But the economy has changed and what worked several decades ago does not do so any longer.

Yes, there may be exceptions even today, but with the cost of college being what it is today it would be foolhardy to ignore the realities of today's economy.

You're assuming liberal arts people want to work for you. I think what you're seeing here is many who decide to take the unconventional path and major in liberal arts also take unconventional paths when it comes to career and find a way to make it work for them. And I'm going to bet for many liberal arts majors the idea of toiling away in an office is not super high on the desires list, hence pursuing jobs that allow for creativity.

Sure, if you have a trust fund, you don't have to work in an office. The only other option is barista or similar service position that never required a degree to begin with. A very small percentage of those people will be able to earn a living wage working in an unconventional job. A few live that dream with a lot of talent and luck, but even most very talented people will eventually have to work for the man (or the woman, you know what I mean).

Actually, those aren't the only options. Not by a long shot. But keep believing what you've been told.

Please, supply me with a list of viable careers for a liberal arts major that does not involve working a 9-5 job. Even most photography majors have to wait tables to make ends meet.

let's see... entrepreneur for one. That covers a whole range of options, including owning your own business. Millennials have been statistically much more likely to open their own business than any other age group. And it's one of the best paths to wealth.

Just because you live in DC where everyone works for the government in an office job, does not mean everyone needs to do that.

[Anonymous]

I posted this once a few months ago but I'll post it again. DS did get into the SLAC of his choice - that's the only thing that's changed.

My son is interested in attending a SLAC, he's applied ED to a well-regarded (at least on DCUM) and hopefully he will get in.

I'm being brutally honest and telling you all something that I probably wouldn't admit to in person.

I have a science degree. In fact, I have earned a BS, MS and Doctorate in my field from a great academic institution, state university, tops in my field, etc. I'm regarded as being very smart, able to write well, etc. I have risen to the very top of my profession and earn about 500K per year.

But I when I'm around the liberal arts folks, I feel dumb. I"m not well rounded, I am not as mentally nimble, not as well written or spoken. My program did not allow for courses considered to be "fluff." Electives were from a list, core courses were from a list that were approved by the dept for my major. I worked my ass off to learn how to write, I did learn how to write for publication in grad school and of course for my PhD but scientific writing is different - I basically stink at other styles of writing.

So while I'm very knowledgeable in my field and intelligent, I'm not well-educated and I really regret not having a broader depth of knowledge, a stronger vocabulary, higher order critical thinking, the ability to integrate knowledge from various disciplines, etc.

I would love to engage on the Political forum (the reasonably intelligent posts, not the partisan diatribe crap) but honestly I would just get destroyed by some philosophy major. So, I lurk and basically keep my mouth shut.

Touring SLACs with my son, I fell in love and wish I had the opportunity to not just go to college to get a career, but to go to college for an education. I could still have my career.

So, I will encourage my kids to go the SLAC route, pick an interesting major and quite honestly, if they need another year or two to gain marketable skills I'm fine with helping them out. I want them to take this chance of a lifetime to become a well-rounded person.

So damn the graphs and the articles and the experts. I want my kids to be educated first, then we will work on a career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Philosophy majors have two choices. Go to graduate school or live off of Daddy's trust fund.

Maybe if you say it enough times it will come true and you won't have to feel bitter about your office job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Please, supply me with a list of viable careers for a liberal arts major that does not involve working a 9-5 job. Even most photography majors have to wait tables to make ends meet.

let's see... entrepreneur for one. That covers a whole range of options, including owning your own business. Millennials have been statistically much more likely to open their own business than any other age group. And it's one of the best paths to wealth.

Just because you live in DC where everyone works for the government in an office job, does not mean everyone needs to do that.

You might need a good chunk of that trust fund to start your own business.

[Anonymous]

If you can't see the tide is turning and that the entire world is tech-focused you're helpless. Liberal arts degrees are going to be obsolete.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you can't see the tide is turning and that the entire world is tech-focused you're helpless. Liberal arts degrees are going to be obsolete.

Yeah, I don't think this is true at all. The world has always needed--will always need--artists, performers, historians, writers, thinkers...and people to teach those things. I dread a world where technology rules everything and people are automatons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you can't see the tide is turning and that the entire world is tech-focused you're helpless. Liberal arts degrees are going to be obsolete.

Actually they're predicting the opposite. With increased computerization so many jobs that just require math are going to be taken away and filled by machines. Pretty easy to switch that out.

On the other hand, it's a lot easier to have a computer program write a really moving book, for example. So the prediction is that jobs that rely on creativity will be more secure.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/08/15/as-machines-take-on-more-human-work-whats-left-for-us/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I posted this once a few months ago but I'll post it again. DS did get into the SLAC of his choice - that's the only thing that's changed.

My son is interested in attending a SLAC, he's applied ED to a well-regarded (at least on DCUM) and hopefully he will get in.

I'm being brutally honest and telling you all something that I probably wouldn't admit to in person.

I have a science degree. In fact, I have earned a BS, MS and Doctorate in my field from a great academic institution, state university, tops in my field, etc. I'm regarded as being very smart, able to write well, etc. I have risen to the very top of my profession and earn about 500K per year.

But I when I'm around the liberal arts folks, I feel dumb. I"m not well rounded, I am not as mentally nimble, not as well written or spoken. My program did not allow for courses considered to be "fluff." Electives were from a list, core courses were from a list that were approved by the dept for my major. I worked my ass off to learn how to write, I did learn how to write for publication in grad school and of course for my PhD but scientific writing is different - I basically stink at other styles of writing.

So while I'm very knowledgeable in my field and intelligent, I'm not well-educated and I really regret not having a broader depth of knowledge, a stronger vocabulary, higher order critical thinking, the ability to integrate knowledge from various disciplines, etc.

I would love to engage on the Political forum (the reasonably intelligent posts, not the partisan diatribe crap) but honestly I would just get destroyed by some philosophy major. So, I lurk and basically keep my mouth shut.

Touring SLACs with my son, I fell in love and wish I had the opportunity to not just go to college to get a career, but to go to college for an education. I could still have my career.

So, I will encourage my kids to go the SLAC route, pick an interesting major and quite honestly, if they need another year or two to gain marketable skills I'm fine with helping them out. I want them to take this chance of a lifetime to become a well-rounded person.

So damn the graphs and the articles and the experts. I want my kids to be educated first, then we will work on a career.

Great posting. Thank you for sharing.

We're with you. As parents, we also went the STEM route in our undergraduate days (as well as all our post-grad degrees). It has served us well but, honestly, the older we get the more limited we see that those choices made us. That is why we both are hoping that our children will go the liberal arts route although we'll support them no matter what direction they take. Like you, we want well-rounded children.

Our children and, it sounds like yours, will succeed because they are high achieving with high expectations. Their undergrad major won't make or break them. And we firmly expect that they will be earning some sort of graduate degree, for the purpose of a career, whether that additional degree be a MA/MS, JD, MD or PhD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted this once a few months ago but I'll post it again. DS did get into the SLAC of his choice - that's the only thing that's changed.

My son is interested in attending a SLAC, he's applied ED to a well-regarded (at least on DCUM) and hopefully he will get in.

I'm being brutally honest and telling you all something that I probably wouldn't admit to in person.

I have a science degree. In fact, I have earned a BS, MS and Doctorate in my field from a great academic institution, state university, tops in my field, etc. I'm regarded as being very smart, able to write well, etc. I have risen to the very top of my profession and earn about 500K per year.

But I when I'm around the liberal arts folks, I feel dumb. I"m not well rounded, I am not as mentally nimble, not as well written or spoken. My program did not allow for courses considered to be "fluff." Electives were from a list, core courses were from a list that were approved by the dept for my major. I worked my ass off to learn how to write, I did learn how to write for publication in grad school and of course for my PhD but scientific writing is different - I basically stink at other styles of writing.

So while I'm very knowledgeable in my field and intelligent, I'm not well-educated and I really regret not having a broader depth of knowledge, a stronger vocabulary, higher order critical thinking, the ability to integrate knowledge from various disciplines, etc.

I would love to engage on the Political forum (the reasonably intelligent posts, not the partisan diatribe crap) but honestly I would just get destroyed by some philosophy major. So, I lurk and basically keep my mouth shut.

Touring SLACs with my son, I fell in love and wish I had the opportunity to not just go to college to get a career, but to go to college for an education. I could still have my career.

So, I will encourage my kids to go the SLAC route, pick an interesting major and quite honestly, if they need another year or two to gain marketable skills I'm fine with helping them out. I want them to take this chance of a lifetime to become a well-rounded person.

So damn the graphs and the articles and the experts. I want my kids to be educated first, then we will work on a career.

Great posting. Thank you for sharing.

We're with you. As parents, we also went the STEM route in our undergraduate days (as well as all our post-grad degrees). It has served us well but, honestly, the older we get the more limited we see that those choices made us. That is why we both are hoping that our children will go the liberal arts route although we'll support them no matter what direction they take. Like you, we want well-rounded children.

Our children and, it sounds like yours, will succeed because they are high achieving with high expectations. Their undergrad major won't make or break them. And we firmly expect that they will be earning some sort of graduate degree, for the purpose of a career, whether that additional degree be a MA/MS, JD, MD or PhD.

You hit the nail on the head. Sounds like we could be friends! Lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted this once a few months ago but I'll post it again. DS did get into the SLAC of his choice - that's the only thing that's changed.

My son is interested in attending a SLAC, he's applied ED to a well-regarded (at least on DCUM) and hopefully he will get in.

I'm being brutally honest and telling you all something that I probably wouldn't admit to in person.

I have a science degree. In fact, I have earned a BS, MS and Doctorate in my field from a great academic institution, state university, tops in my field, etc. I'm regarded as being very smart, able to write well, etc. I have risen to the very top of my profession and earn about 500K per year.

But I when I'm around the liberal arts folks, I feel dumb. I"m not well rounded, I am not as mentally nimble, not as well written or spoken. My program did not allow for courses considered to be "fluff." Electives were from a list, core courses were from a list that were approved by the dept for my major. I worked my ass off to learn how to write, I did learn how to write for publication in grad school and of course for my PhD but scientific writing is different - I basically stink at other styles of writing.

So while I'm very knowledgeable in my field and intelligent, I'm not well-educated and I really regret not having a broader depth of knowledge, a stronger vocabulary, higher order critical thinking, the ability to integrate knowledge from various disciplines, etc.

I would love to engage on the Political forum (the reasonably intelligent posts, not the partisan diatribe crap) but honestly I would just get destroyed by some philosophy major. So, I lurk and basically keep my mouth shut.

Touring SLACs with my son, I fell in love and wish I had the opportunity to not just go to college to get a career, but to go to college for an education. I could still have my career.

So, I will encourage my kids to go the SLAC route, pick an interesting major and quite honestly, if they need another year or two to gain marketable skills I'm fine with helping them out. I want them to take this chance of a lifetime to become a well-rounded person.

So damn the graphs and the articles and the experts. I want my kids to be educated first, then we will work on a career.

Great posting. Thank you for sharing.

We're with you. As parents, we also went the STEM route in our undergraduate days (as well as all our post-grad degrees). It has served us well but, honestly, the older we get the more limited we see that those choices made us. That is why we both are hoping that our children will go the liberal arts route although we'll support them no matter what direction they take. Like you, we want well-rounded children.

Our children and, it sounds like yours, will succeed because they are high achieving with high expectations. Their undergrad major won't make or break them. And we firmly expect that they will be earning some sort of graduate degree, for the purpose of a career, whether that additional degree be a MA/MS, JD, MD or PhD.

We're highly educated non-STEM parents. Our kid appears to be headed toward a science career, but is insistent about a getting a liberal arts education. DC has been very clear that she wants to know what we know (-- and more!). Personally, I'm glad she's going the STEM route (so much BS in the world today) and I don't perceive a categorical divide between STEM and non-STEM people wrt how well-educated they are. Most people don't write well or read closely or think critically, or even use what they learned in college in their daily lives. In the end I think it comes down more to personality and interests than what kind of college education you've had. Although I guess I acted on the assumption that pre-collegiate education matters. I feel deficient wrt sciences and foreign languages. And made sure DC got exposed to both much earlier than I did. Turned out to be her favorite subjects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you can't see the tide is turning and that the entire world is tech-focused you're helpless. Liberal arts degrees are going to be obsolete.

Tech changes constantly. You need to be well-educated, not just technically educated to keep up. We need more people who can think and innovate, not just people who can code.

Liberal arts majors need technical skills, but those are easy to get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you can't see the tide is turning and that the entire world is tech-focused you're helpless. Liberal arts degrees are going to be obsolete.

Actually they're predicting the opposite. With increased computerization so many jobs that just require math are going to be taken away and filled by machines. Pretty easy to switch that out.

On the other hand, it's a lot easier to have a computer program write a really moving book, for example. So the prediction is that jobs that rely on creativity will be more secure.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/08/15/as-machines-take-on-more-human-work-whats-left-for-us/

It was true 30 years ago. PP is fighting the last war.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you can't see the tide is turning and that the entire world is tech-focused you're helpless. Liberal arts degrees are going to be obsolete.

Tech changes constantly. You need to be well-educated, not just technically educated to keep up. We need more people who can think and innovate, not just people who can code.

Liberal arts majors need technical skills, but those are easy to get.

I prefer to state the converse (allow me since I was a liberal arts major):
Technical majors need liberal arts skills, but those are easy to get!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really think we are seeing a class divide in the vocationalism of higher ed. Upper-class people go to college and are fine majoring in the liberal arts; they have the connections to get a job after graduation either through family or an alumni network. For people with out connections or money, they see STEM degrees or anything practical like business or accounting as a way to pay off debt/loans and compensate for lack of family connections and alumni networks.

This isn't true. Typically smarter kids and kids with math and science aptitude lean towards stem degrees. High school kids are old enough or mature enough to understand family connections or lack thereof. I suppose you could say I have family connections but that at all wasn't something I weighed when choosing my major and college.

Actually, philosophy majors are the smartest kids measured by test scores and IQ scores.

They are also high earners.

http://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2015/09/philosophy-majors-out-earn-other-humanities/403555/

[Anonymous]

Do people really think colleges are teaching people how to create or be innovative? If so, in what kinds of courses?