Dumb WaPoo Article on Public Schools

[Anonymous]

I do agree that in PP's hypothetical the DC government would be sued through the nose (and lose) if it intentionally cut off electricity for citizens who live in Ward 8. Governments can't discriminate like that.

But as others are pointing out, DCPS policies are doing nothing to create the unfortunate, low scholastic aptitude for many students in the city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do agree that in PP's hypothetical the DC government would be sued through the nose (and lose) if it intentionally cut off electricity for citizens who live in Ward 8. Governments can't discriminate like that.

But as others are pointing out, DCPS policies are doing nothing to create the unfortunate, low scholastic aptitude for many students in the city.

well we don't know that do we? it's not about "scholadtic aptitude" but the quality and amount of resources distributed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can always re-litigate an issue. Lawrence v Texas legalized sodomy about 20 years after a decision that did the opposite. You can always try to bring a case again to SCOTUS. But the current state of the law appears to be that if black people live in neighborhood X because it's what they can afford, and the schools in neighborhood X are poor performing, then the only constitutional requirement is that the govt not intentionally reduce the quality of schools in X. For example, the govt cannot underfund those schools. But in DC, schools in black neighborhoods are overfunded relative to schools in white neighborhoods. This satisfies the requirement of equal inputs. Sadly, and I am genuine when I say sadly, there doesn't appear to be a constitutional requirement of equal outcomes.

That is the constitutional law. There are federal and state statutes that would be the basis for a disparate impact claim.

Sometimes I wonder if you dcum lawyers actually went to law school??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do agree that in PP's hypothetical the DC government would be sued through the nose (and lose) if it intentionally cut off electricity for citizens who live in Ward 8. Governments can't discriminate like that.

But as others are pointing out, DCPS policies are doing nothing to create the unfortunate, low scholastic aptitude for many students in the city.

well we don't know that do we? it's not about "scholadtic aptitude" but the quality and amount of resources distributed.

Now you can't be serious. That isn't happening in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do agree that in PP's hypothetical the DC government would be sued through the nose (and lose) if it intentionally cut off electricity for citizens who live in Ward 8. Governments can't discriminate like that.

But as others are pointing out, DCPS policies are doing nothing to create the unfortunate, low scholastic aptitude for many students in the city.

well we don't know that do we? it's not about "scholadtic aptitude" but the quality and amount of resources distributed.

DC has the most resources of any of the local jurisdictions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do agree that in PP's hypothetical the DC government would be sued through the nose (and lose) if it intentionally cut off electricity for citizens who live in Ward 8. Governments can't discriminate like that.

But as others are pointing out, DCPS policies are doing nothing to create the unfortunate, low scholastic aptitude for many students in the city.

well we don't know that do we? it's not about "scholadtic aptitude" but the quality and amount of resources distributed.

DC has the most resources of any of the local jurisdictions.

It has the most resources of any jurisdiction in the United States, and disproportionally allocates many more resources to the under-performing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do agree that in PP's hypothetical the DC government would be sued through the nose (and lose) if it intentionally cut off electricity for citizens who live in Ward 8. Governments can't discriminate like that.

But as others are pointing out, DCPS policies are doing nothing to create the unfortunate, low scholastic aptitude for many students in the city.

well we don't know that do we? it's not about "scholadtic aptitude" but the quality and amount of resources distributed.

Now you can't be serious. That isn't happening in DC.

Gah. See. This is a problem. People have a really wacked lack of understanding of the facts.

That PP must assume that since white kids have higher scores, they must be getting something secret from DCPS that no one else is getting. Ugh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:and yeah other prior poster I totally agree

I am assuming some of the black posters who call everyone racist don't realize anyone with means is doing the same thing

what you're truly saying is that no one wants to go to school with poor blacks.

whoever figures out why gets a Nobel Prize.

No one wants to go to school with redneck possum and dirt eatin Bubba either

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:and yeah other prior poster I totally agree

I am assuming some of the black posters who call everyone racist don't realize anyone with means is doing the same thing

what you're truly saying is that no one wants to go to school with poor blacks.

whoever figures out why gets a Nobel Prize.

No one wants to go to school with redneck possum and dirt eatin Bubba either

Ha! You're right!! I went to a school like that (in the south) in 6th grade and the girl sitting next to me was 6 mos pregnant. Until she had to leave at 9 months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this surprising to anyone

Anyone with means is going to do what is best for their children aka living in the best school district possible away from the poors/ESOLS/blacks/hispanics

DC Charter system is white flight
Choice in Arlington is white flight
AAP in Fairfax is white flight
Magnets in MoCo is white flight

See a pattern

You would make more sense if you substituted "poverty flight" or "blight flight." It's not just whites who care about high-quality schools, upper-income AA families don't want to put their children in low-quality schools either.

Exactly. Our private is full of high income, highly accomplished African Americans. They sit on the Board of Trustees and are leaders in the school. I didn't see you that in our MoCo public schools with the exception of one or two very engaged moms. At the privates, the Dads are engaged too. It's a much better environment for smart AA boys (and girls). Yes, there are black families on FA, but they appear to be in the minority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this surprising to anyone

Anyone with means is going to do what is best for their children aka living in the best school district possible away from the poors/ESOLS/blacks/hispanics

DC Charter system is white flight
Choice in Arlington is white flight
AAP in Fairfax is white flight
Magnets in MoCo is white flight

See a pattern

You would make more sense if you substituted "poverty flight" or "blight flight." It's not just whites who care about high-quality schools, upper-income AA families don't want to put their children in low-quality schools either.

Exactly. Our private is full of high income, highly accomplished African Americans. They sit on the Board of Trustees and are leaders in the school. I didn't see you that in our MoCo public schools with the exception of one or two very engaged moms. At the privates, the Dads are engaged too. It's a much better environment for smart AA boys (and girls). Yes, there are black families on FA, but they appear to be in the minority.

Which also contributes to the achievement gap in public schools, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is a link to the GAO report on which the article is based. http://www.gao.gov/assets/680/676745.pdf

As I read it, the report is saying something pretty similar to what OP suggested. Schools with students that are disproportionately black/Hispanic and low-income do worse on academic achievement measures. People who can afford to avoid schools with low academic achievement measures will avoid them. The people who can afford to avoid those schools are more often white. As a result, segregation increases because of income disparities. Various school districts have tried different tactics to encourage more racial diversity at schools, by giving extra money and better facilities to the schools that are low-income and black/Hispanic. But even those extra resources do not lead to much more diversity.

To me, it seems there are essentially two potential solutions:

1. Decide as a society that we value integration/diversity more highly than academic success. If maximizing integration is the goal, then schools and governments will essentially need to force students to integrate by race and income. This means upper and middle class students will somehow be forced into schools that are academically weaker, all in the name of increased diversity. The hope, of course, is that in more integrated/diverse schools, the academic success of wealthier/whiter students will somehow encourage the other students to academic improvement, but I have not seen much evidence that approach works.

2. Decide as a society that we value academic success for each student more highly than integration/diversity. This means we focus on lifting the academic achievement of each student, regardless of the impact on integration/diversity. That likely means we have fairly segregated schools in the short term, as we abandon efforts at diversity. It means lots of education money gets thrown at increasing the academic performance of black/Hispanic and low-income students. Hopefully, in the long term, it means we succeed in raising the academic performance of the black/Hispanic and low-income groups, so that integration naturally follows. (Speaking personally, I suspect that this approach would lead to more racial integration over time, but would never lead to much income integration because the wealthy will always have more money to spend on things that lead to improved academic performance.)

Meanwhile, the Chinese are laughing all the way. Our public schools are largely crap, with the exception of the select few who are put in magnet or G&T programs. Yes, we need socioeconomic diversity but it should not mean that the smarter kids are neglected while the teachers focus on bringing up the bottom of the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this surprising to anyone

Anyone with means is going to do what is best for their children aka living in the best school district possible away from the poors/ESOLS/blacks/hispanics

DC Charter system is white flight
Choice in Arlington is white flight
AAP in Fairfax is white flight
Magnets in MoCo is white flight

See a pattern

What? You mean Asian flight?

whites and asians are interchangeable silly :-p its all about ses anyway I mean upper income blacks do the same thing

But aren't the Asians fleeing from the whites in cases of AAP and TJ?

The evidence seems to show that whites are fleeing from Asians in the case of TJ.

umm no

White applications have gone down as the Asian %age has gone up. White flight from Asians.

Asians don't care about race they care about test scores and education.

-Asian

Exactly. And that's what should motivate the rest of us too. I'm not saying we want to continue the rote, teach to the test approach we have now, but there is enough data out there - and commonsensemedia - to show what works. We need smaller class sizes, more enriching extracurriculars, a focus on social / emotional skills - and academic rigor with tracking. This is how our educational system worked decades ago, and it's how most strong private and parochial schools operate now.

[Anonymous]

Basically, "The world needs ditch diggers too, Danny." This is the harsh reality of the human condition. There is really no easy means of escape.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole point here is that public schools suck and will always suck and there will be no meaningful integration until the idiot bureaucrats discover that you have to have safety in the classroom as a pre-req. No safety, no integration. When you mix in kids from problem environments, and a small number of those kids had intense behavioral issues, people are going to flee unless the kids with behavioral problems are dealt with in a meaningful way, i.e. pull them out into a reform school until they get their stuff together. Otherwise, screw the thought of integration.

It is not only safety which is major pre-requisite but it is also academics. There needs to be serious flexible tracking in separate classrooms when there are many kids years behind grade level since differentiation does not work in this environment. You cannot expect parents with kids working several to many years above grade level to accept a classroom teaching to the lowest common denominator.

Why not? It seems to be working in MCPS. I'm convinced most parents don't go over their kids' homework - and rarely do the teachers.