Current MCPS language immersion programs are incredibly classist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Anonymous wrote:
"Re postcard expense -- there are 357,000+ households in MOCO. Postcards cost about 40 cents just to mail not to mention the cost of printing, addressing and staff time to prepare. as A frame of reference annual births in the county are about 13,000, so the cohort of kids entering K in any one year is a small fraction of the total number of households. Mailing every single MOCO household doesn't seem like a very efficient use of funds."

Fine - so switch the registration date & the lottery dates then so you capture in the info outreach the vast majority of families registering.

To when?"

Whenever works for lottery planning timing but so that the sequencing is: first general registration period for school which is widely advertized as is now the case and then as part of that allow parents to designate if they want to submit for the lottery as one of the forms/boxes they fill out during that process.

This is not a cure-all as I still think that bestowing such HUGE benefits on a very few lucky families is not right but it at least improves the odds that everyone has a more equal shot at winning that extremely large pay-off.

I think you are looking at it the wrong way. What makes the program unfair is more so to do with equal accessibility throughout the county. The program is not really talked about where I live because its distance is prohibitive if you get in or not. The first thing that needs to happen, and I'm 1000% sure Metis will agree, is that the programs need to be distributed to all parts of the county. Once that happens it will be easier to spread info on the programs.

Attaching the lottery to some type of early registration may help but most people just aren't going to think of registering in April/May. So it will be more of the same.. those in the know will register early and those who aren't will miss out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I know of at least 3 families within 3 blocks of our house that applied to and were accepted at immersion programs within the past 3 years. The ONLY reason they applied was because the neighborhood school is not considered a great option. Each of these families expressed concern about their children adjusting to the language, and it was viewed almost as a sacrifice/risk, but one that was preferable to attending the neighborhood school. I spoke with all of them, because it was our plan as well. I was told, and I quote "we looked at [local school] and we just couldn't do it." This isn't everyone, but this is a very real dynamic in some neighborhoods in Silver Spring. I know there are other reasons, but in some neighborhoods where the parents have decided for whatever reason that they don't have faith in their assigned school, they apply to the lottery and hope for a good outcome. Anyone who thinks this isn't a dynamic and is just some random and unconfirmed theory should just come to our hood and talk to the parents, especially those who did NOT get in! You'll get an earful about the mass exodus from our local school (ours being one of the poorest in the county) and how effectively and completely it diminishes middle class enrollment at the local school.

So should MCPS get rid of the immersion programs on grounds that some people enter the lottery for the immersion programs with the goal of avoiding their neighborhood school?

That seems to be OP's philosophy. F*ck everyone, so that the poor/ distracted/ busy don't fall behind.

Not PP but I have to wonder is it fair that the quality of education is based on a lottery? That seems to be the case in some areas of the county. If someone from a W cluster applies but does not get in they still get to go to their sought after school. In other clusters, like the one PP is referring to if families do not get in the lottery, their essentially stuck with a substandard school. Yes, they can move if they can afford it but that's not an option in a lot of cases. I don't have a solution, but it seems like a question worth asking. And no, I don't think they should get rid of the immersion programs.

THIS is the problem. Non of the schools in MoCo are substandard. As a PP mentioned, the ratios of higher v. lower performing students are just different. This has nothing to do with the school.

[Anonymous]

Also, the fact that they might appear classist is kind of the point. They bring higher SES kids into lower performing schools.

The RCF example is a bit weird because demographics and boundaries have changed, but that was the purpose even for RCF.

IMO this is a good thing and should be supported.

[Anonymous]

I purposely did NOT sign my kid up for an immersion program because they are all in crap or overcrowded schools.

And if you are an illiterate parent, that is not the county's problem. That is the parent's problem. Stop enabling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I purposely did NOT sign my kid up for an immersion program because they are all in crap or overcrowded schools.

And if you are an illiterate parent, that is not the county's problem. That is the parent's problem. Stop enabling.

This... Everywhere I go I spread word on the immersion program. By far the majority have no interest, many of whom live in less desirable clusters. Some think we're crazy for doing it. So I never feel like I won some free ride they others can never obtain. Most people certainly are not trying to escape and are content where they are at.

[Anonymous]

"Anonymous wrote:
I purposely did NOT sign my kid up for an immersion program because they are all in crap or overcrowded schools.

And if you are an illiterate parent, that is not the county's problem. That is the parent's problem. Stop enabling.


This... Everywhere I go I spread word on the immersion program. By far the majority have no interest, many of whom live in less desirable clusters. Some think we're crazy for doing it. So I never feel like I won some free ride they others can never obtain. Most people certainly are not trying to escape and are content where they are at."

That depends on where you live. Do you live in the DCC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I know of at least 3 families within 3 blocks of our house that applied to and were accepted at immersion programs within the past 3 years. The ONLY reason they applied was because the neighborhood school is not considered a great option. Each of these families expressed concern about their children adjusting to the language, and it was viewed almost as a sacrifice/risk, but one that was preferable to attending the neighborhood school. I spoke with all of them, because it was our plan as well. I was told, and I quote "we looked at [local school] and we just couldn't do it." This isn't everyone, but this is a very real dynamic in some neighborhoods in Silver Spring. I know there are other reasons, but in some neighborhoods where the parents have decided for whatever reason that they don't have faith in their assigned school, they apply to the lottery and hope for a good outcome. Anyone who thinks this isn't a dynamic and is just some random and unconfirmed theory should just come to our hood and talk to the parents, especially those who did NOT get in! You'll get an earful about the mass exodus from our local school (ours being one of the poorest in the county) and how effectively and completely it diminishes middle class enrollment at the local school.

So should MCPS get rid of the immersion programs on grounds that some people enter the lottery for the immersion programs with the goal of avoiding their neighborhood school?

That seems to be OP's philosophy. F*ck everyone, so that the poor/ distracted/ busy don't fall behind.

Not PP but I have to wonder is it fair that the quality of education is based on a lottery? That seems to be the case in some areas of the county. If someone from a W cluster applies but does not get in they still get to go to their sought after school. In other clusters, like the one PP is referring to if families do not get in the lottery, their essentially stuck with a substandard school. Yes, they can move if they can afford it but that's not an option in a lot of cases. I don't have a solution, but it seems like a question worth asking. And no, I don't think they should get rid of the immersion programs.

THIS is the problem. Non of the schools in MoCo are substandard. As a PP mentioned, the ratios of higher v. lower performing students are just different. This has nothing to do with the school.

PP here. Yes, "substandard" was a poor choice of words. It is not a fair description of the teachers and administrators who work very hard at all MoCo schools. Disparaging the schools was not my intent. Only to pose the question in the first sentence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Wrong, wrong, wrong.... The majority of the people with Latin American backgrounds in the Immersion program are not central american. I actually know of 1. The rest are from South American, the Caribbean and Spain. There are a significant # of families who have ancestry from Spain. Hint: you realize you can't just look at people and tell their background you might actually have to talk and get to know them and you might be surprised.

There are a lot of families at Rolling Terrace ES who are from Spain?

Not saying they are the majority by any means but I know of several families that are from Spainish (Europe) background.

First you say "a significant number", then you say "several". Also, what does "Spanish background" mean? Are they actually from Spain, or are they from somewhere else?

Did you now see the (Europe) part?

(New PP here) I just saw the "Spainish" part. Are you trying to be incredibly classiist and ignoraint?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Anonymous wrote:
I purposely did NOT sign my kid up for an immersion program because they are all in crap or overcrowded schools.

And if you are an illiterate parent, that is not the county's problem. That is the parent's problem. Stop enabling.


This... Everywhere I go I spread word on the immersion program. By far the majority have no interest, many of whom live in less desirable clusters. Some think we're crazy for doing it. So I never feel like I won some free ride they others can never obtain. Most people certainly are not trying to escape and are content where they are at."

That depends on where you live. Do you live in the DCC?

I live in a lower-performing school district and language immersion was NOT chosen as a way to escape my lower-performing HS. My DC completed high school closer to home and did just fine. Using this as an escape is really doing your child a disservice. And let's be honest, it's not the school but the composition of the student body that people want to avoid. So you plant your child in a language immersion program and then discourage their continuation to a culturally diverse environment. That's just screwed up all away around if you ask me.

[Anonymous]

^ My kid is not in an immersion program but I am familiar with why my neighbors tout their slots in them as lifesavers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Anonymous wrote:
I purposely did NOT sign my kid up for an immersion program because they are all in crap or overcrowded schools.

And if you are an illiterate parent, that is not the county's problem. That is the parent's problem. Stop enabling.


This... Everywhere I go I spread word on the immersion program. By far the majority have no interest, many of whom live in less desirable clusters. Some think we're crazy for doing it. So I never feel like I won some free ride they others can never obtain. Most people certainly are not trying to escape and are content where they are at."

That depends on where you live. Do you live in the DCC?

I live in a lower-performing school district and language immersion was NOT chosen as a way to escape my lower-performing HS. My DC completed high school closer to home and did just fine. Using this as an escape is really doing your child a disservice. And let's be honest, it's not the school but the composition of the student body that people want to avoid. So you plant your child in a language immersion program and then discourage their continuation to a culturally diverse environment. That's just screwed up all away around if you ask me.

Cool story... But hate to tell you that immersion schools are more diverse than many parents homeschool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ My kid is not in an immersion program but I am familiar with why my neighbors tout their slots in them as lifesavers.

My kid is in an immersion program, and we are zoned for a "better" elementary school than where he is for immersion.

Anecdote does not equal data.

[Anonymous]

FWIW we live in the DCC and are zoned for what DCUM would consider a "less desirable" ES and we are planning to send our kids to the regular English-speaking school. We want our children to learn in English, since we don't speak any other languages at home. We want to be able to help them with their homework. I don't really see the value of the immersion program if the language spoken at home is exclusively English.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW we live in the DCC and are zoned for what DCUM would consider a "less desirable" ES and we are planning to send our kids to the regular English-speaking school. We want our children to learn in English, since we don't speak any other languages at home. We want to be able to help them with their homework. I don't really see the value of the immersion program if the language spoken at home is exclusively English.

If you only speak English and you don't see the value in learning another language it's a strange but valid opinion. Immersion isn't for everyone. That's why it's a special program.

[Anonymous]

I don't consider College Gardens less desirable. I think it is rated a 9. I wish it did not have an immersion program because the school is so over crowded. I think it was placed there because of the PYP/IB program not because it needed improved scores.