Fairfax County: McLean Citizens Association demands smaller class sizes

[Anonymous]

The problem is-its not that most schools and classes have 18-25 and the outliers are 25+ and less than 18. My impression is schools either have very small classes or very big classes. There are very few classes/schools that can consistently staff 18-25 kids in an elementary class.

[Anonymous]

In a normal market, people seek out the good they desire. If a parent desires a smaller classroom size for their child, then why do they continue to segregate themselves into those school districts with more crowded classrooms. It seems like the solution would be to move to those school districts with smaller class sizes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In a normal market, people seek out the good they desire. If a parent desires a smaller classroom size for their child, then why do they continue to segregate themselves into those school districts with more crowded classrooms. It seems like the solution would be to move to those school districts with smaller class sizes.

Many of the jobs are not located in these areas. Plus many people do not want to relocate. It costs a lot of money to sell and buy again and start over just because FCPS has increased their class sizes over the past 5 years. Why isn't all of Fairfax though excellent? That's what FCPS says, so people move into areas deemed great and then are underwhelmed. Plus FCPS does not want people driving all over the place. Traffic is a mess already. Why ask for more businesses to come to Tysons if you are not willing to fund the schools there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In a normal market, people seek out the good they desire. If a parent desires a smaller classroom size for their child, then why do they continue to segregate themselves into those school districts with more crowded classrooms. It seems like the solution would be to move to those school districts with smaller class sizes.

School quality is but one factor of many in the decision of where to live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a normal market, people seek out the good they desire. If a parent desires a smaller classroom size for their child, then why do they continue to segregate themselves into those school districts with more crowded classrooms. It seems like the solution would be to move to those school districts with smaller class sizes.

Many of the jobs are not located in these areas. Plus many people do not want to relocate. It costs a lot of money to sell and buy again and start over just because FCPS has increased their class sizes over the past 5 years. Why isn't all of Fairfax though excellent? That's what FCPS says, so people move into areas deemed great and then are underwhelmed. Plus FCPS does not want people driving all over the place. Traffic is a mess already. Why ask for more businesses to come to Tysons if you are not willing to fund the schools there?

Actually if FCPS wants to see these schools get better, what they really need to do is zone the land for better quality buildings and entice businesses to move near those schools. And they need to enforce their own zoning laws. Letting people illegally cram into apartment complexes isn't helping the schools for those complexes at all. People see them as dangerous areas and stay away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In a normal market, people seek out the good they desire. If a parent desires a smaller classroom size for their child, then why do they continue to segregate themselves into those school districts with more crowded classrooms. It seems like the solution would be to move to those school districts with smaller class sizes.

That's simplistic. People can speak with their mouths as well as vote with their feet.

Some people will respond by voting with their feet - going private or moving elsewhere. But people also decide where to live based on a number of factors, and there are significant transaction costs associated with moving, so trying to effect changes is, in market terms, far more efficient.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In a normal market, people seek out the good they desire. If a parent desires a smaller classroom size for their child, then why do they continue to segregate themselves into those school districts with more crowded classrooms. It seems like the solution would be to move to those school districts with smaller class sizes.

Maybe biased, but I found the housing stock in McLean to be better than in Arlington when we were looking. Maybe things have changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a normal market, people seek out the good they desire. If a parent desires a smaller classroom size for their child, then why do they continue to segregate themselves into those school districts with more crowded classrooms. It seems like the solution would be to move to those school districts with smaller class sizes.

Maybe biased, but I found the housing stock in McLean to be better than in Arlington when we were looking. Maybe things have changed.

The housing stock in McLean overall remains more expensive than in Arlington, but smaller class sizes and shorter commutes matter, too. I'm sure anyone in Arlington thinking of putting his or her house on the market soon loves this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a normal market, people seek out the good they desire. If a parent desires a smaller classroom size for their child, then why do they continue to segregate themselves into those school districts with more crowded classrooms. It seems like the solution would be to move to those school districts with smaller class sizes.

Maybe biased, but I found the housing stock in McLean to be better than in Arlington when we were looking. Maybe things have changed.

The housing stock in McLean overall remains more expensive than in Arlington, but smaller class sizes and shorter commutes matter, too. I'm sure anyone in Arlington thinking of putting his or her house on the market soon loves this thread.

And Arlington has lower property taxes than us!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Title one classes are capped around 21 students so she doesn't have to worry.

They are only capped (and I'm not sure what the cap is) until 3rd grade. And then there is no cap.

I don't think it's right to have classes over 30 kids. I think a cap of 25 is asking too much. I think suggesting that non-Title 1 classes be capped at only 4 more kids than Title 1 classes is preposterous because the needs at impoverished schools are so great. I think 28-30 per class is reasonable and that there should be no more than 30, regardless of the FRL percentage. Assuming the classrooms can accommodate 30 desks, of course. Fire Marshals, anyone?

I would support a measure that would cap class sizes at 30, but would not support taking away needs-based staffing.

I could be wrong, but i wonder if those classes that have a low number of kids is driven by the caps. Hypothetically, if there are 45 kids in a school area in a Title 1 school and the cap is indeed 21 per class, then it's not legal to have only 2 classes of 23 and 22 kids. There would have to be 3 classes of 15 each. Either that, or you have to combine grade levels in one class, which is not ideal, and would probably be difficult in a high FRL, possibly high ESL setting.

Taxes may have to go up, which I would support. That being said, I think developer proffers have to go way up as well (which is something the School Board is looking at), particularly if they want to develop in areas without sufficient school capacity.

The only other option is redrawing the boundary lines. This might mean taking some kids out of the 35-kid McLean classrooms and putting them in other schools, which I bet would meet resistance (just read any thread in which someone suggests moving kids to Falls Church HS). Parents rightfully complain about too-large class size, but don't want to pay more taxes and don't want to be the ones who have to move to schools with available capacity because the schools are perceived as lesser. So what's the solution? Are there empty classrooms in McLean just waiting for FCPS to allow them to hire another teacher? If not, then where are those extra kids going? A trailer?

Could not agree more that developers building up these areas have got to chip in more than they do. County officials can't seem to give them enough incentives....meanwhile schools which were remodeled to handle overcrowding are in danger of or already overcrowded again in areas like Tysons. it's just ridiculous and becoming a huge quality of life issue in the area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a normal market, people seek out the good they desire. If a parent desires a smaller classroom size for their child, then why do they continue to segregate themselves into those school districts with more crowded classrooms. It seems like the solution would be to move to those school districts with smaller class sizes.

Maybe biased, but I found the housing stock in McLean to be better than in Arlington when we were looking. Maybe things have changed.

The housing stock in McLean overall remains more expensive than in Arlington, but smaller class sizes and shorter commutes matter, too. I'm sure anyone in Arlington thinking of putting his or her house on the market soon loves this thread.

And Arlington has lower property taxes than us!

And higher spending per student!

[Anonymous]

Does FCPS still have kindergarten aides? If so, then you are at least one step ahead of MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a normal market, people seek out the good they desire. If a parent desires a smaller classroom size for their child, then why do they continue to segregate themselves into those school districts with more crowded classrooms. It seems like the solution would be to move to those school districts with smaller class sizes.

That's simplistic. People can speak with their mouths as well as vote with their feet.

Some people will respond by voting with their feet - going private or moving elsewhere. But people also decide where to live based on a number of factors, and there are significant transaction costs associated with moving, so trying to effect changes is, in market terms, far more efficient.

Many of the non-desirable and overcrowded places were not that way 10 years ago. No one had even ever heard of our elementary school which had some 400 odd kids when we bought our house. Now thats its been turned into an unneeded AAP center we're looking at close to 1000 kids in a couple of years. No one could have predicted that kind of craziness. I have less sympathy for folks who move to say, the Haycock area and complain -- that's been an obvious mess for years.

[Anonymous]

Get rid of centers. Then, redraw boundaries and try to create community schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a normal market, people seek out the good they desire. If a parent desires a smaller classroom size for their child, then why do they continue to segregate themselves into those school districts with more crowded classrooms. It seems like the solution would be to move to those school districts with smaller class sizes.

Maybe biased, but I found the housing stock in McLean to be better than in Arlington when we were looking. Maybe things have changed.

The housing stock in McLean overall remains more expensive than in Arlington, but smaller class sizes and shorter commutes matter, too. I'm sure anyone in Arlington thinking of putting his or her house on the market soon loves this thread.

And Arlington has lower property taxes than us!

And higher spending per student!

They need it, as they have a higher percentage of FARMS kids than FCPS.