Fairfax County: McLean Citizens Association demands smaller class sizes

[Anonymous]

We are in a very middle class area. My children have never had less than 26/27 kids in their elementary classes. I had no idea there were schools with only 10 or 15 kids per class. That's ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a normal market, people seek out the good they desire. If a parent desires a smaller classroom size for their child, then why do they continue to segregate themselves into those school districts with more crowded classrooms. It seems like the solution would be to move to those school districts with smaller class sizes.

That's simplistic. People can speak with their mouths as well as vote with their feet.

Some people will respond by voting with their feet - going private or moving elsewhere. But people also decide where to live based on a number of factors, and there are significant transaction costs associated with moving, so trying to effect changes is, in market terms, far more efficient.

Many of the non-desirable and overcrowded places were not that way 10 years ago. No one had even ever heard of our elementary school which had some 400 odd kids when we bought our house. Now thats its been turned into an unneeded AAP center we're looking at close to 1000 kids in a couple of years. No one could have predicted that kind of craziness. I have less sympathy for folks who move to say, the Haycock area and complain -- that's been an obvious mess for years.

I meant many of the now-desirable schools, not non

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a normal market, people seek out the good they desire. If a parent desires a smaller classroom size for their child, then why do they continue to segregate themselves into those school districts with more crowded classrooms. It seems like the solution would be to move to those school districts with smaller class sizes.

That's simplistic. People can speak with their mouths as well as vote with their feet.

Some people will respond by voting with their feet - going private or moving elsewhere. But people also decide where to live based on a number of factors, and there are significant transaction costs associated with moving, so trying to effect changes is, in market terms, far more efficient.

Many of the non-desirable and overcrowded places were not that way 10 years ago. No one had even ever heard of our elementary school which had some 400 odd kids when we bought our house. Now thats its been turned into an unneeded AAP center we're looking at close to 1000 kids in a couple of years. No one could have predicted that kind of craziness. I have less sympathy for folks who move to say, the Haycock area and complain -- that's been an obvious mess for years.

Building capacity and class sizes are different issues. Some schools in Great Falls are under capacity but still have large class sizes. Some schools in the Bailey's Crossroads area are overcrowded but still have small classes (and lots of trailers).

Haycock was over-capacity, but FCPS is dealing with by moving AAP students to Lemon Road, expanding the capacity as part of the renovation, and planning ahead to potentially move more AAP kids to either Franklin Sherman or Chesterbrook. But none of that will change the size of the classes unless the current staffing formula is adjusted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow. I will try and bring up this "McLean Resolution" with Dr. Garza tomorrow on her listening tour stop. This whole letter is just in poor taste. I'm sure there are some average or underachieving children of wealthy people in general education elementary classes in McLean that could benefit from smaller class sizes, but on the overall, McLean just doesn't have ESL, FARMS, or students in tenuous, at-risk situations, who just do not do well on state tests, SATs, and all other measures of student achievement.

You know what isn't "fair"? That affordable housing is concentrated in Mason, Lee, and Mount Vernon. How about McLean takes on a larger share of the affordable housing pie? It's around 40% in 7 Corners. And, my idiot Mason District Supervisor wants to add another 15% to that. This greatly affects the local schools.

The infinite wisdom of the County BOS causes never ending heartburn for my district, and yet, it isn't enough for the "haves" of Fairfax County.

Where is there a proposal to add new guaranteed affordable housing to Seven Corners. I believe you are confusing proposals to add market rate housing, not affordable housing. New market rate housing in Seven Corners (or anywhere else in Mason) is not likely to have a large impact on the schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You could elect a BOS member who actually tries to enforce the housing codes, has said "no" to developers who keep pushing to increase density in areas that aren't convenient to Metro, and insists that new schools have adequate playground space and aren't located in abandoned office buildings when there were several better alternatives.

But, no, you kept electing Penny Gross, and then you think we should smile and keep quiet when FCPS puts twice as many kids in our classes as yours? Sorry, but our class sizes are too big, and we'll advocate aggressively to bring them down. See you at the polls, or in the court house, whichever comes first.

So now McLean wants to blame Mason district for not ejecting the poor? Where do you suppose those people are going to go when you "enforce the code"? (BTW last I heard code enforcement was by the County, not the Supervisor, so your supervisor would have to vote for it too)
You know there are already homeless people in Fairfax, don't you?

You are such lovely, lovely people in McLean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow. I will try and bring up this "McLean Resolution" with Dr. Garza tomorrow on her listening tour stop. This whole letter is just in poor taste. I'm sure there are some average or underachieving children of wealthy people in general education elementary classes in McLean that could benefit from smaller class sizes, but on the overall, McLean just doesn't have ESL, FARMS, or students in tenuous, at-risk situations, who just do not do well on state tests, SATs, and all other measures of student achievement.

You know what isn't "fair"? That affordable housing is concentrated in Mason, Lee, and Mount Vernon. How about McLean takes on a larger share of the affordable housing pie? It's around 40% in 7 Corners. And, my idiot Mason District Supervisor wants to add another 15% to that. This greatly affects the local schools.

The infinite wisdom of the County BOS causes never ending heartburn for my district, and yet, it isn't enough for the "haves" of Fairfax County.



Where is there a proposal to add new guaranteed affordable housing to Seven Corners. I believe you are confusing proposals to add market rate housing, not affordable housing. New market rate housing in Seven Corners (or anywhere else in Mason) is not likely to have a large impact on the schools.

It is my understanding that all builders are required to proffer affordable housing when they build new developments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. I will try and bring up this "McLean Resolution" with Dr. Garza tomorrow on her listening tour stop. This whole letter is just in poor taste. I'm sure there are some average or underachieving children of wealthy people in general education elementary classes in McLean that could benefit from smaller class sizes, but on the overall, McLean just doesn't have ESL, FARMS, or students in tenuous, at-risk situations, who just do not do well on state tests, SATs, and all other measures of student achievement.

You know what isn't "fair"? That affordable housing is concentrated in Mason, Lee, and Mount Vernon. How about McLean takes on a larger share of the affordable housing pie? It's around 40% in 7 Corners. And, my idiot Mason District Supervisor wants to add another 15% to that. This greatly affects the local schools.

The infinite wisdom of the County BOS causes never ending heartburn for my district, and yet, it isn't enough for the "haves" of Fairfax County.

Where is there a proposal to add new guaranteed affordable housing to Seven Corners. I believe you are confusing proposals to add market rate housing, not affordable housing. New market rate housing in Seven Corners (or anywhere else in Mason) is not likely to have a large impact on the schools.

Not the PP, but the proposal for the redevelopment of the Sears site calls for setting aside 12% of the units for "affordable housing."

The other issue in that area is not knowing who'll end up living in "market rate housing" when the area isn't exactly screaming "Clarendon." They think Penny Gross will do the developer's bidding, and then wash her hands if the units end up with four families in a single apartment in a few years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In a normal market, people seek out the good they desire. If a parent desires a smaller classroom size for their child, then why do they continue to segregate themselves into those school districts with more crowded classrooms. It seems like the solution would be to move to those school districts with smaller class sizes.

Go look at the RE estate boards. There is abundant evidence will pay a premium for schools in McLean, people will live in apts to get into those schools, people fight over which areas are "really" McLean with its highly sought after schools, and people accuse people who live in areas with less good schools of child neglect.

Clearly the notion that the class size issue has resulted in McLean schools being less desirable than schools in other parts of FFX county is absurd.

It IS possible that a few people move to North Arlington or to the City of Falls Church for smaller class sizes. But there are only so many SFHs in those areas (I don't think many people are crowding into condos in Clarendon to avoid McLean schools) so there is a definite limit on how much that can effect McLean RE prices, and thus County revenue. In any case, McLean residential property tax revenue is undoubtedly dwarfed by the tax revenue on residential and commercial high rises in Tysons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. I will try and bring up this "McLean Resolution" with Dr. Garza tomorrow on her listening tour stop. This whole letter is just in poor taste. I'm sure there are some average or underachieving children of wealthy people in general education elementary classes in McLean that could benefit from smaller class sizes, but on the overall, McLean just doesn't have ESL, FARMS, or students in tenuous, at-risk situations, who just do not do well on state tests, SATs, and all other measures of student achievement.

You know what isn't "fair"? That affordable housing is concentrated in Mason, Lee, and Mount Vernon. How about McLean takes on a larger share of the affordable housing pie? It's around 40% in 7 Corners. And, my idiot Mason District Supervisor wants to add another 15% to that. This greatly affects the local schools.

The infinite wisdom of the County BOS causes never ending heartburn for my district, and yet, it isn't enough for the "haves" of Fairfax County.

Where is there a proposal to add new guaranteed affordable housing to Seven Corners. I believe you are confusing proposals to add market rate housing, not affordable housing. New market rate housing in Seven Corners (or anywhere else in Mason) is not likely to have a large impact on the schools.

Not the PP, but the proposal for the redevelopment of the Sears site calls for setting aside 12% of the units for "affordable housing."

The other issue in that area is not knowing who'll end up living in "market rate housing" when the area isn't exactly screaming "Clarendon." They think Penny Gross will do the developer's bidding, and then wash her hands if the units end up with four families in a single apartment in a few years.

12% of the new housing is a lot less than 15% of all the housing. And some of that is probably going to be "workforce" housing, IE with incomes higher than that in the old garden apts people here are thinking of.

And while it likely will not command Clarendon rents, in general new multifamily housing in this area does get middle to upper middle income people. Take a look at the buildings in East Falls Church, or the new market rate buildings on Columbia Pike in Arlington, or in Shirlington.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. I will try and bring up this "McLean Resolution" with Dr. Garza tomorrow on her listening tour stop. This whole letter is just in poor taste. I'm sure there are some average or underachieving children of wealthy people in general education elementary classes in McLean that could benefit from smaller class sizes, but on the overall, McLean just doesn't have ESL, FARMS, or students in tenuous, at-risk situations, who just do not do well on state tests, SATs, and all other measures of student achievement.

You know what isn't "fair"? That affordable housing is concentrated in Mason, Lee, and Mount Vernon. How about McLean takes on a larger share of the affordable housing pie? It's around 40% in 7 Corners. And, my idiot Mason District Supervisor wants to add another 15% to that. This greatly affects the local schools.

The infinite wisdom of the County BOS causes never ending heartburn for my district, and yet, it isn't enough for the "haves" of Fairfax County.

Where is there a proposal to add new guaranteed affordable housing to Seven Corners. I believe you are confusing proposals to add market rate housing, not affordable housing. New market rate housing in Seven Corners (or anywhere else in Mason) is not likely to have a large impact on the schools.

The county is zoning for thousands more multi family units, and 15% of those will be affordable. Plans are still in the works. Fairfax County requires a certain percentage, but it isn't 15%.

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/mason/seven_corners_special_working_group/01.20.15._-_7c_final_meeting_minutes_.pdf

The BOS is either idiotic, or willfully sadistic say to us constituents that Seven Corners is suddenly going to attract a bevvy of millenials and empty nesters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You could elect a BOS member who actually tries to enforce the housing codes, has said "no" to developers who keep pushing to increase density in areas that aren't convenient to Metro, and insists that new schools have adequate playground space and aren't located in abandoned office buildings when there were several better alternatives.

But, no, you kept electing Penny Gross, and then you think we should smile and keep quiet when FCPS puts twice as many kids in our classes as yours? Sorry, but our class sizes are too big, and we'll advocate aggressively to bring them down. See you at the polls, or in the court house, whichever comes first.

So now McLean wants to blame Mason district for not ejecting the poor? Where do you suppose those people are going to go when you "enforce the code"? (BTW last I heard code enforcement was by the County, not the Supervisor, so your supervisor would have to vote for it too)
You know there are already homeless people in Fairfax, don't you?

You are such lovely, lovely people in McLean.

The people who complain the most about the current quality of life in Mason are people who live there. And many believe the local Supervisor could have played a far more active role in insisting upon code enforcement, which certainly would not have required a vote by supervisors in other districts, but instead leaning upon the county employees charged with monitoring and enforcing compliance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. I will try and bring up this "McLean Resolution" with Dr. Garza tomorrow on her listening tour stop. This whole letter is just in poor taste. I'm sure there are some average or underachieving children of wealthy people in general education elementary classes in McLean that could benefit from smaller class sizes, but on the overall, McLean just doesn't have ESL, FARMS, or students in tenuous, at-risk situations, who just do not do well on state tests, SATs, and all other measures of student achievement.

You know what isn't "fair"? That affordable housing is concentrated in Mason, Lee, and Mount Vernon. How about McLean takes on a larger share of the affordable housing pie? It's around 40% in 7 Corners. And, my idiot Mason District Supervisor wants to add another 15% to that. This greatly affects the local schools.

The infinite wisdom of the County BOS causes never ending heartburn for my district, and yet, it isn't enough for the "haves" of Fairfax County.

Where is there a proposal to add new guaranteed affordable housing to Seven Corners. I believe you are confusing proposals to add market rate housing, not affordable housing. New market rate housing in Seven Corners (or anywhere else in Mason) is not likely to have a large impact on the schools.

The county is zoning for thousands more multi family units, and 15% of those will be affordable. Plans are still in the works. Fairfax County requires a certain percentage, but it isn't 15%.

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/mason/seven_corners_special_working_group/01.20.15._-_7c_final_meeting_minutes_.pdf

The BOS is either idiotic, or willfully sadistic say to us constituents that Seven Corners is suddenly going to attract a bevvy of millenials and empty nesters.

One more time. Someone (you?) said Gross wants to add 15% to "that". IE 15% more than the existing amount of affordable housing. 15% of the NEW housing being guaranteed affordable is not adding 15% to the total stock of affordable housing. Indeed, though the current proposals are for commercial parcels, it is likely at some point affordable units will be lost, as older garden apartments are redeveloped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You could elect a BOS member who actually tries to enforce the housing codes, has said "no" to developers who keep pushing to increase density in areas that aren't convenient to Metro, and insists that new schools have adequate playground space and aren't located in abandoned office buildings when there were several better alternatives.

But, no, you kept electing Penny Gross, and then you think we should smile and keep quiet when FCPS puts twice as many kids in our classes as yours? Sorry, but our class sizes are too big, and we'll advocate aggressively to bring them down. See you at the polls, or in the court house, whichever comes first.

So now McLean wants to blame Mason district for not ejecting the poor? Where do you suppose those people are going to go when you "enforce the code"? (BTW last I heard code enforcement was by the County, not the Supervisor, so your supervisor would have to vote for it too)
You know there are already homeless people in Fairfax, don't you?

You are such lovely, lovely people in McLean.

The people who complain the most about the current quality of life in Mason are people who live there. And many believe the local Supervisor could have played a far more active role in insisting upon code enforcement, which certainly would not have required a vote by supervisors in other districts, but instead leaning upon the county employees charged with monitoring and enforcing compliance.

Most people I know in Mason like the quality of life there, and are not obsessed with the poor brown people. There is of course a vocal faction which is. I doubt very much that the person now running against Gross is going to satisfy that faction.

But what I am hearing here is that some people from McLean, unable to defend the request of the MCA, are trying to divert the anger of some Mason (and other district) voters about that letter to the poor. Classic tactic - the rich try to get the middles to fear the poor, instead of uniting with them for change.

[Anonymous]

Oh and this is all being said on the annandale blog.

Why dont you also threaten to secede from Fairfax while you are at it?

You do know that would require consent from Richmond, which you will not get, because too many counties around the commonwealth would be threatened.

But I hve a deal - North County can secede, but "rest of Fairfax" keeps Tysons, and the other TOD areas adjacent to the Silver Line. We can finally build what we want there, without getting signoff from the MCA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. I will try and bring up this "McLean Resolution" with Dr. Garza tomorrow on her listening tour stop. This whole letter is just in poor taste. I'm sure there are some average or underachieving children of wealthy people in general education elementary classes in McLean that could benefit from smaller class sizes, but on the overall, McLean just doesn't have ESL, FARMS, or students in tenuous, at-risk situations, who just do not do well on state tests, SATs, and all other measures of student achievement.

You know what isn't "fair"? That affordable housing is concentrated in Mason, Lee, and Mount Vernon. How about McLean takes on a larger share of the affordable housing pie? It's around 40% in 7 Corners. And, my idiot Mason District Supervisor wants to add another 15% to that. This greatly affects the local schools.

The infinite wisdom of the County BOS causes never ending heartburn for my district, and yet, it isn't enough for the "haves" of Fairfax County.



Where is there a proposal to add new guaranteed affordable housing to Seven Corners. I believe you are confusing proposals to add market rate housing, not affordable housing. New market rate housing in Seven Corners (or anywhere else in Mason) is not likely to have a large impact on the schools.

It is my understanding that all builders are required to proffer affordable housing when they build new developments.

Yes, and the costs of this affordable housing is a joke. Not to mention they;re constantly playing with the number to have to pay less and allot less. And our county officials let them.