Asians are suing Harvard and UNC - Chapel Hill for use of quotas

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG. No one who reads Michelle Obama's senior thesis can reasonably come away without thinking she deserved to attend an Ivy. I had no idea it was that bad on virtually every level.

Yes, an Asian or Jewish student with higher SATs and a demonstrated ability to compose an English sentence was more deserving of her place at Princeton.

Nor, for that matter, do I. But, then, I didn't.

Should be "No one who reads Michelle Obama's senior thesis can reasonably come away without thinking she did not deserve to attend an Ivy."

And no one who reviews George W. Bush's academic record can reasonably come away without thinking he did not deserve to attend an Ivy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish we had an admission process where the applicant is merely designated with a number and there is no indication of race or other identifying information pertaining to ethnicity.

Then go ahead and use the holistic approach and it would be interesting to see which students were offered admission.

^ but then what if few blacks and Hispanics got using that process? Then you'd have another lawsuit.

Well, also, there's these things called "interviews", that some schools use. Because part of the "holistic" approach is talking with them and seeing them.

[Anonymous]

Many people of means should not have gotten into an Ivy or any other top school. Ironically, the smartest one was Richard Nixon who genuinely had good grades. The rest is history.

1. Al Gore
Gore’s the brainiest politician around, right? Possibly, but you wouldn’t know it from looking at his Harvard transcript. Gore apparently spent quite a bit of time loafing during his sophomore year, and some of his grades weren't very good: a D, a C-minus, two C’s, two C-pluses, and a B-minus, marks that put him in the lowest fifth of his class. Strangely enough, the D came in a class that sounds like it would be right in Gore’s wheelhouse: Natural Sciences 6 (Man’s Place in Nature).

2. George W. Bush
Gore’s foe in the 2000 presidential election takes a lot of ribbing for his intellect, but his college grades at Yale were more mediocre than embarrassing. Through his first three years at Yale, Bush’s grades averaged out to 77 on a 100-point scale. He only received one D during his college career, in an astronomy course.

3. John Kerry

Like Bush, Kerry attended Yale. And he had some really rotten grades, particularly during his freshman year. As a Yale frosh, Kerry rang up D’s in geology, two history classes, and – strangely enough for a future Senator – political science. While Kerry’s 2004 campaign presented him as a more cerebral alternative to Bush, the two men’s grades at Yale were roughly equivalent.

4. Dan Quayle
Quayle’s academic struggles didn’t start with his infamously ill-fated attempt to spell “potato.” According to a 1988 Cleveland Plain Dealer story, he wasn’t a bang-up student at DePauw University, either. Quayle’s grades were so lousy that he wouldn’t ordinarily have been able to earn admission into Indiana University’s law school, but he secured a spot thanks to an equal opportunity program. During the 1988 presidential campaign a Quayle spokesman explained that high marks were simply hard to come by at DePauw.

5. George H.W. Bush
When Quayle’s middling college grades became a story during the 1988 campaign, running mate George H.W. Bush defended his eventual VP and revealed a bit of his own classroom struggle. Bush joked, ''I refuse to release my high school transcript because I failed chemistry and I don't want anyone to know that.''

6. John McCain
McCain excelled at a lot of things during his time at the United States Naval Academy, including boxing. McCain’s classes knocked him out, though. His grades were so poor that in his graduating class of 899, he earned spot 894 in the rankings.

7. Joe Biden
By all accounts, Biden wasn’t the world’s greatest student, but he made up for his academic shortcomings with sheer likability. Biden ranked 506th out of 688 students in the University of Delaware’s class of 1965, but a professor still recommended him for law school “on grounds of personality and general promise.” The future VP didn’t exactly turn on the jets once he got to law school, either. He finished 76th in his class of 85 students at Syracuse, and admitted to plagiarism in his first year of law school. But again, a dean recommended him for a job on the basis of his “confidence,” “general physical appearance,” and “general speaking ability.”

8. Franklin Pierce
It’s not just modern politicians who goofed around in college. When Pierce attended Bowdoin College, he spent so much time hanging out with friends, including a young Nathaniel Hawthorne, that at one point he was ranked dead last in his class. He eventually found some motivation and worked his way up to fifth in his class.

9. Richard Nixon
Unlike the other names on this list, Nixon was actually an excellent student. After Whittier College, Nixon went on to Duke Law, where he graduated third in his class in 1937. He also served as president of the Duke Bar Association. But we're including him because his good grades didn't earn him much respect from his alma mater.

In 1954, a committee recommended that then-VP Nixon be given an honorary Doctor of Laws degree, and Nixon agreed to be the graduation speaker. However, after vociferous debate, a faculty panel voted down the recommendation, and Nixon bailed on the commencement address.

Over a quarter-century later, Duke President Terry Sanford pushed to build Nixon’s presidential library on campus, even meeting with Nixon himself to work out the details. However, a similar faculty committee killed the idea. The Nixon Library ended up in Yorba Linda, California.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMG. No one who reads Michelle Obama's senior thesis can reasonably come away without thinking she deserved to attend an Ivy. I had no idea it was that bad on virtually every level.

Yes, an Asian or Jewish student with higher SATs and a demonstrated ability to compose an English sentence was more deserving of her place at Princeton.

Really? You read it? And somehow she managed to get into a great law school and make partner at a major law firm. Let me guess, that was all just unfair advantages? She seems to have done ok for herself. And I've never heard her speak unintelligently.
You know, I went to top ivies (I'm a white girl with no "hooks") for undergrad and law school, and I never met a person who wasn't really smart there. Plenty of arrogant people, and plenty of people who thought they knew everything already and therefore didn't learn everything they could have, and plenty of people who were born on third and thought they hit a triple, but there wasn't a dumb person there. Of any color.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And nobody but nobody gets into Harvard or any other Ivy with substandard grades. Period.

AA or Latinos do.

Your intention is to race bait, pure and simple. And for what it's worth, not every Asian or white student who applies has a perfect SAT score and perfect GPA. But contrary to your belief, there are AA and Latino students who DO have better scores. But they are not recognized for their academic success. They are accused of getting in because of affirmative action. What is your excuse for the 1.6% American Indians who are admitted. Kick them to the curb too? Don't you people ever get enough?

Show me the data. Make me a believer.

Nobody has to cater to you. You can google just like everybody else does. You are not exceptional and no one should kowtow to you because you don't want to believe. That's a personal problem. Do your own research.

Yeah sure. I thought so.

NP here who happens to be White. What you did is a "bitch" move. You made an highly inflammatory statement that you CANNOT back up with data. When challenged on it, you came up with "prove me wrong" with data although you have no data to back up your statement. Luckily for us all, folks here are too smart for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG. No one who reads Michelle Obama's senior thesis can reasonably come away without thinking she deserved to attend an Ivy. I had no idea it was that bad on virtually every level.

Yes, an Asian or Jewish student with higher SATs and a demonstrated ability to compose an English sentence was more deserving of her place at Princeton.

Really? You read it? And somehow she managed to get into a great law school and make partner at a major law firm. Let me guess, that was all just unfair advantages? She seems to have done ok for herself. And I've never heard her speak unintelligently.
You know, I went to top ivies (I'm a white girl with no "hooks") for undergrad and law school, and I never met a person who wasn't really smart there. Plenty of arrogant people, and plenty of people who thought they knew everything already and therefore didn't learn everything they could have, and plenty of people who were born on third and thought they hit a triple, but there wasn't a dumb person there. Of any color.

This is really it in a nutshell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG. No one who reads Michelle Obama's senior thesis can reasonably come away without thinking she deserved to attend an Ivy. I had no idea it was that bad on virtually every level.

Yes, an Asian or Jewish student with higher SATs and a demonstrated ability to compose an English sentence was more deserving of her place at Princeton.

Nor, for that matter, do I. But, then, I didn't.

Should be "No one who reads Michelle Obama's senior thesis can reasonably come away without thinking she did not deserve to attend an Ivy."

And no one who reviews George W. Bush's academic record can reasonably come away without thinking he did not deserve to attend an Ivy.

At least we know that Bush cracked 1200 on his SATs, which made him a viable legacy candidate for Yale back in the 1960s. Michelle Robinson applied to Princeton roughly 20 years later, when admissions were more competitive, but the poor quality of her thesis suggests that she neither belonged at an Ivy nor benefited from an Ivy education. I mean, you can find her senior thesis on-line and read it. It's an exercise in poorly written navel-gazing, not scholarship. A more qualified Asian student surely would have come up with something more impressive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:12:27 - it's sad no one will believe (other than parents) she got there by her own merit. people will always think she got there b/c she is an AA and the system "helped" her.

What a load of crap. I work with plenty of AA Ivy grads. I don't think they got here with "help". Because they're great at what they do, so why would I think that.
Sure, SOME people will think that. But that number of people is shrinking every day as they die off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG. No one who reads Michelle Obama's senior thesis can reasonably come away without thinking she deserved to attend an Ivy. I had no idea it was that bad on virtually every level.

Yes, an Asian or Jewish student with higher SATs and a demonstrated ability to compose an English sentence was more deserving of her place at Princeton.

Really? You read it? And somehow she managed to get into a great law school and make partner at a major law firm. Let me guess, that was all just unfair advantages? She seems to have done ok for herself. And I've never heard her speak unintelligently.
You know, I went to top ivies (I'm a white girl with no "hooks") for undergrad and law school, and I never met a person who wasn't really smart there. Plenty of arrogant people, and plenty of people who thought they knew everything already and therefore didn't learn everything they could have, and plenty of people who were born on third and thought they hit a triple, but there wasn't a dumb person there. Of any color.

This is really it in a nutshell.

People who went to Ivies often give everyone else who went to an Ivy the benefit of the doubt, particularly if they have the same politics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many people of means should not have gotten into an Ivy or any other top school. Ironically, the smartest one was Richard Nixon who genuinely had good grades. The rest is history.

1. Al Gore
Gore’s the brainiest politician around, right? Possibly, but you wouldn’t know it from looking at his Harvard transcript. Gore apparently spent quite a bit of time loafing during his sophomore year, and some of his grades weren't very good: a D, a C-minus, two C’s, two C-pluses, and a B-minus, marks that put him in the lowest fifth of his class. Strangely enough, the D came in a class that sounds like it would be right in Gore’s wheelhouse: Natural Sciences 6 (Man’s Place in Nature).

2. George W. Bush
Gore’s foe in the 2000 presidential election takes a lot of ribbing for his intellect, but his college grades at Yale were more mediocre than embarrassing. Through his first three years at Yale, Bush’s grades averaged out to 77 on a 100-point scale. He only received one D during his college career, in an astronomy course.

3. John Kerry

Like Bush, Kerry attended Yale. And he had some really rotten grades, particularly during his freshman year. As a Yale frosh, Kerry rang up D’s in geology, two history classes, and – strangely enough for a future Senator – political science. While Kerry’s 2004 campaign presented him as a more cerebral alternative to Bush, the two men’s grades at Yale were roughly equivalent.

4. Dan Quayle
Quayle’s academic struggles didn’t start with his infamously ill-fated attempt to spell “potato.” According to a 1988 Cleveland Plain Dealer story, he wasn’t a bang-up student at DePauw University, either. Quayle’s grades were so lousy that he wouldn’t ordinarily have been able to earn admission into Indiana University’s law school, but he secured a spot thanks to an equal opportunity program. During the 1988 presidential campaign a Quayle spokesman explained that high marks were simply hard to come by at DePauw.

5. George H.W. Bush
When Quayle’s middling college grades became a story during the 1988 campaign, running mate George H.W. Bush defended his eventual VP and revealed a bit of his own classroom struggle. Bush joked, ''I refuse to release my high school transcript because I failed chemistry and I don't want anyone to know that.''

6. John McCain
McCain excelled at a lot of things during his time at the United States Naval Academy, including boxing. McCain’s classes knocked him out, though. His grades were so poor that in his graduating class of 899, he earned spot 894 in the rankings.

7. Joe Biden
By all accounts, Biden wasn’t the world’s greatest student, but he made up for his academic shortcomings with sheer likability. Biden ranked 506th out of 688 students in the University of Delaware’s class of 1965, but a professor still recommended him for law school “on grounds of personality and general promise.” The future VP didn’t exactly turn on the jets once he got to law school, either. He finished 76th in his class of 85 students at Syracuse, and admitted to plagiarism in his first year of law school. But again, a dean recommended him for a job on the basis of his “confidence,” “general physical appearance,” and “general speaking ability.”

8. Franklin Pierce
It’s not just modern politicians who goofed around in college. When Pierce attended Bowdoin College, he spent so much time hanging out with friends, including a young Nathaniel Hawthorne, that at one point he was ranked dead last in his class. He eventually found some motivation and worked his way up to fifth in his class.

9. Richard Nixon
Unlike the other names on this list, Nixon was actually an excellent student. After Whittier College, Nixon went on to Duke Law, where he graduated third in his class in 1937. He also served as president of the Duke Bar Association. But we're including him because his good grades didn't earn him much respect from his alma mater.

In 1954, a committee recommended that then-VP Nixon be given an honorary Doctor of Laws degree, and Nixon agreed to be the graduation speaker. However, after vociferous debate, a faculty panel voted down the recommendation, and Nixon bailed on the commencement address.

Over a quarter-century later, Duke President Terry Sanford pushed to build Nixon’s presidential library on campus, even meeting with Nixon himself to work out the details. However, a similar faculty committee killed the idea. The Nixon Library ended up in Yorba Linda, California.

Is this a filibuster? Because, otherwise, it proves nothing other than that many politicians were weak academically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:12:27 - it's sad no one will believe (other than parents) she got there by her own merit. people will always think she got there b/c she is an AA and the system "helped" her.

Are you kidding? That is a view from 25 years ago. People would have to be willfully ignorant to not know that there are URMs in their midst with superior academic qualifications. You need to get out more.

I do not want to intefere in your discussion with PP, but someone said just that a few pages back. So no one needs to "get out more." This thread is evidence that quite a few people still feel that way.


AA who did not attend HYP, but a similarly outstanding school on the West Coast.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG. No one who reads Michelle Obama's senior thesis can reasonably come away without thinking she deserved to attend an Ivy. I had no idea it was that bad on virtually every level.

Yes, an Asian or Jewish student with higher SATs and a demonstrated ability to compose an English sentence was more deserving of her place at Princeton.

Nor, for that matter, do I. But, then, I didn't.

Should be "No one who reads Michelle Obama's senior thesis can reasonably come away without thinking she did not deserve to attend an Ivy."

And no one who reviews George W. Bush's academic record can reasonably come away without thinking he did not deserve to attend an Ivy.

At least we know that Bush cracked 1200 on his SATs, which made him a viable legacy candidate for Yale back in the 1960s. Michelle Robinson applied to Princeton roughly 20 years later, when admissions were more competitive, but the poor quality of her thesis suggests that she neither belonged at an Ivy nor benefited from an Ivy education. I mean, you can find her senior thesis on-line and read it. It's an exercise in poorly written navel-gazing, not scholarship. A more qualified Asian student surely would have come up with something more impressive.

Oh, sure. Let's see if we can find some Asian Ivy grad's thesis and crap on it now. Really? That's your example? You find one URM thesis and make fun of it? You are so desperate.
I just skimmed it, and it's a typical sociology thesis. I'm not a fan of sociology as a discipline, because it's too fuzzy for me. But you could find thousands of similar sociology theses by people of many races and they'd look similar. The writing itself is perfectly competent. You don't like the subject matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG. No one who reads Michelle Obama's senior thesis can reasonably come away without thinking she deserved to attend an Ivy. I had no idea it was that bad on virtually every level.

Yes, an Asian or Jewish student with higher SATs and a demonstrated ability to compose an English sentence was more deserving of her place at Princeton.

Really? You read it? And somehow she managed to get into a great law school and make partner at a major law firm. Let me guess, that was all just unfair advantages? She seems to have done ok for herself. And I've never heard her speak unintelligently.
You know, I went to top ivies (I'm a white girl with no "hooks") for undergrad and law school, and I never met a person who wasn't really smart there. Plenty of arrogant people, and plenty of people who thought they knew everything already and therefore didn't learn everything they could have, and plenty of people who were born on third and thought they hit a triple, but there wasn't a dumb person there. Of any color.

This is really it in a nutshell.

People who went to Ivies often give everyone else who went to an Ivy the benefit of the doubt, particularly if they have the same politics.

Wait, so let me get this straight: you are certain that URM's you went to Ivies aren't as smart, despite the fact that you've never set foot in one. I spent 8 years total at Ivies, in classes with people, in study groups, etc., and I'm telling you they're all smart (lots of other flaws, but all smart) and you say that because I went to ivies I'm biased. Ohhhhkay. I'm seeing why you didn't get into an Ivy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And nobody but nobody gets into Harvard or any other Ivy with substandard grades. Period.

AA or Latinos do.

No they don't. You are totally wrong.

Yes they do.

Prove it. You're just making shit up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:12:27 - it's sad no one will believe (other than parents) she got there by her own merit. people will always think she got there b/c she is an AA and the system "helped" her.

Are you kidding? That is a view from 25 years ago. People would have to be willfully ignorant to not know that there are URMs in their midst with superior academic qualifications. You need to get out more.

I do not want to intefere in your discussion with PP, but someone said just that a few pages back. So no one needs to "get out more." This thread is evidence that quite a few people still feel that way.


AA who did not attend HYP, but a similarly outstanding school on the West Coast.

Or at least one or two people probably including the one that started the thread