Crazy paternity leave situation

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Even if a job offers it, often men cannot take it or they will be penalized. My husband took a few days. He got little leave. It sucked.

Did he lie to you about it?

No, he did not lie but most people cannot take off six weeks without risking their job. He lied as she wouldn’t listen.

Women take off more than six weeks ALL THE TIME.

Do you think that helps or hurts their career?

It only hurts women because men don’t take comparable leave when they have children…

But it doesn't stop with maternity leave. Lots of women want to get off the fast track and onto the mommy track and have more time with their kids. It limits the career but that's the choice they want to make.

And lots of women don’t want to do that but end up mommy-tracked due to stereotypes, and lots of men feel confined by stereotypes that they’re the secondary caregiver. In an equitable world, many men and women would be interested in shifting work priorities and would be given the option to do so. Instead, after kids, men make more money and women make less money even after controlling for education levels and career breaks.

You know women who got involuntarily mommy tracked? I don't know any.

Yes, I’ve litigated class actions on this…

Are you OP? Pretty strange OP hasn't come back.

No? I just know a lot about pregnancy discrimination and parental leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Even if a job offers it, often men cannot take it or they will be penalized. My husband took a few days. He got little leave. It sucked.

Did he lie to you about it?

No, he did not lie but most people cannot take off six weeks without risking their job. He lied as she wouldn’t listen.

Women take off more than six weeks ALL THE TIME.

Do you think that helps or hurts their career?

It only hurts women because men don’t take comparable leave when they have children…

Men often don’t get the same paternity leave. If I had another child my husband would get zero leave. He has no pto, sick leave or anything else. He’s hourly.

Same if you get preggo within 12 mos of hire date— no paid leave. Ie you can’t show up pregnant to a white collared job and take paid leave a few months later.

Maybe teachers union people can…

Once again, wrong. You’re entitled to parental leave in DC (and soon VA) after you’ve been with the employer for a year. So you will need to be employed for 3 months before you’re pregnant.

In my world (biglaw) it’s common to have no minimum employment period before being eligible for parental leave. And those that have a minimum period often waive it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if a job offers it, often men cannot take it or they will be penalized. My husband took a few days. He got little leave. It sucked.

Did he lie to you about it?

No, he did not lie but most people cannot take off six weeks without risking their job. He lied as she wouldn’t listen.

Women take off more than six weeks ALL THE TIME.

Do you think that helps or hurts their career?

It only hurts women because men don’t take comparable leave when they have children…

But it doesn't stop with maternity leave. Lots of women want to get off the fast track and onto the mommy track and have more time with their kids. It limits the career but that's the choice they want to make.

And lots of women don’t want to do that but end up mommy-tracked due to stereotypes, and lots of men feel confined by stereotypes that they’re the secondary caregiver. In an equitable world, many men and women would be interested in shifting work priorities and would be given the option to do so. Instead, after kids, men make more money and women make less money even after controlling for education levels and career breaks.

You know women who got involuntarily mommy tracked? I don't know any.

Yes, I’ve litigated class actions on this…

Are you OP? Pretty strange OP hasn't come back.

No? I just know a lot about pregnancy discrimination and parental leave.

So then you would know why one parent might not want to take their leave if it can be weaponized against them at work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if a job offers it, often men cannot take it or they will be penalized. My husband took a few days. He got little leave. It sucked.

Did he lie to you about it?

No, he did not lie but most people cannot take off six weeks without risking their job. He lied as she wouldn’t listen.

Women take off more than six weeks ALL THE TIME.

Do you think that helps or hurts their career?

Depends. But the important point is, why is the man’s career the only important one?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if a job offers it, often men cannot take it or they will be penalized. My husband took a few days. He got little leave. It sucked.

Did he lie to you about it?

No, he did not lie but most people cannot take off six weeks without risking their job. He lied as she wouldn’t listen.

Women take off more than six weeks ALL THE TIME.

Do you think that helps or hurts their career?

It only hurts women because men don’t take comparable leave when they have children…

But it doesn't stop with maternity leave. Lots of women want to get off the fast track and onto the mommy track and have more time with their kids. It limits the career but that's the choice they want to make.

And lots of women don’t want to do that but end up mommy-tracked due to stereotypes, and lots of men feel confined by stereotypes that they’re the secondary caregiver. In an equitable world, many men and women would be interested in shifting work priorities and would be given the option to do so. Instead, after kids, men make more money and women make less money even after controlling for education levels and career breaks.

You know women who got involuntarily mommy tracked? I don't know any.

Yes, I’ve litigated class actions on this…

Are you OP? Pretty strange OP hasn't come back.

No? I just know a lot about pregnancy discrimination and parental leave.

So then you would know why one parent might not want to take their leave if it can be weaponized against them at work.

As I explained, the penalty is largely derived from it being viewed as a “women” problem as opposed to an “everyone” problem. Hence why I’m a huge advocate for paternity leave. And yeah, I think it’s shitty for men who view paternity leave “as optional” to perpetuate the penalty on women by not taking their full, legally protected parental leave.

While there’s a long history of “mommy tracking” there is no phenomenon of “daddy tracking” whatsoever. Women still bear the disproportionate risk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't automatically make him a bad person, OP, especially if there were office politics that meant he could never, realistically, take that much leave if he wanted to stay in the promotion lane.

But taken in the context of his divorce, it might indicate that he never prioritized his wife's wellbeing, and never challenged societal beliefs about mothers looking after children and fathers sticking to work.

I know plenty of fathers who didn't take their full leave, leaving their wives to fend for themselves with infants. Most of them are not divorced. They were afraid of being laid off or not taken seriously at work.

Not being taken seriously by… the other selfish AH’s like them?

How spineless.

When you have kids you have people depending on you. Jobs aren't that easy to come by and everyone is replaceable. Feel free to gamble with your own career.

Lololol. Again working moms do this ALL the time. If this guy’s position was “my career takes precedence over everything” no wonder he is getting divorced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if a job offers it, often men cannot take it or they will be penalized. My husband took a few days. He got little leave. It sucked.

Did he lie to you about it?

No, he did not lie but most people cannot take off six weeks without risking their job. He lied as she wouldn’t listen.

Women take off more than six weeks ALL THE TIME.

Do you think that helps or hurts their career?

It only hurts women because men don’t take comparable leave when they have children…

Men often don’t get the same paternity leave. If I had another child my husband would get zero leave. He has no pto, sick leave or anything else. He’s hourly.

Same if you get preggo within 12 mos of hire date— no paid leave. Ie you can’t show up pregnant to a white collared job and take paid leave a few months later.

Maybe teachers union people can…

I wish people who didn’t know what tf they were talking about wouldn’t talk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if a job offers it, often men cannot take it or they will be penalized. My husband took a few days. He got little leave. It sucked.

Did he lie to you about it?

No, he did not lie but most people cannot take off six weeks without risking their job. He lied as she wouldn’t listen.

Women take off more than six weeks ALL THE TIME.

Do you think that helps or hurts their career?

It only hurts women because men don’t take comparable leave when they have children…

But it doesn't stop with maternity leave. Lots of women want to get off the fast track and onto the mommy track and have more time with their kids. It limits the career but that's the choice they want to make.

And lots of women don’t want to do that but end up mommy-tracked due to stereotypes, and lots of men feel confined by stereotypes that they’re the secondary caregiver. In an equitable world, many men and women would be interested in shifting work priorities and would be given the option to do so. Instead, after kids, men make more money and women make less money even after controlling for education levels and career breaks.

You know women who got involuntarily mommy tracked? I don't know any.

Yes, I’ve litigated class actions on this…

Are you OP? Pretty strange OP hasn't come back.

No? I just know a lot about pregnancy discrimination and parental leave.

So then you would know why one parent might not want to take their leave if it can be weaponized against them at work.

Honestly, if your priority as a dad is to never have to juggle work and parenthood and not have your work life change at all when you have kids - then you don’t deserve 50-50 custody.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if a job offers it, often men cannot take it or they will be penalized. My husband took a few days. He got little leave. It sucked.

Did he lie to you about it?

No, he did not lie but most people cannot take off six weeks without risking their job. He lied as she wouldn’t listen.

Women take off more than six weeks ALL THE TIME.

Do you think that helps or hurts their career?

It only hurts women because men don’t take comparable leave when they have children…

But it doesn't stop with maternity leave. Lots of women want to get off the fast track and onto the mommy track and have more time with their kids. It limits the career but that's the choice they want to make.

And lots of women don’t want to do that but end up mommy-tracked due to stereotypes, and lots of men feel confined by stereotypes that they’re the secondary caregiver. In an equitable world, many men and women would be interested in shifting work priorities and would be given the option to do so. Instead, after kids, men make more money and women make less money even after controlling for education levels and career breaks.

You know women who got involuntarily mommy tracked? I don't know any.

Yes, I’ve litigated class actions on this…

Are you OP? Pretty strange OP hasn't come back.

No? I just know a lot about pregnancy discrimination and parental leave.

So then you would know why one parent might not want to take their leave if it can be weaponized against them at work.

Honestly, if your priority as a dad is to never have to juggle work and parenthood and not have your work life change at all when you have kids - then you don’t deserve 50-50 custody.

Pick a lane. Parents are discirimated against for taking leave or they aren't. But this has nothing to do with custody.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if a job offers it, often men cannot take it or they will be penalized. My husband took a few days. He got little leave. It sucked.

Did he lie to you about it?

No, he did not lie but most people cannot take off six weeks without risking their job. He lied as she wouldn’t listen.

Women take off more than six weeks ALL THE TIME.

Do you think that helps or hurts their career?

It only hurts women because men don’t take comparable leave when they have children…

But it doesn't stop with maternity leave. Lots of women want to get off the fast track and onto the mommy track and have more time with their kids. It limits the career but that's the choice they want to make.

And lots of women don’t want to do that but end up mommy-tracked due to stereotypes, and lots of men feel confined by stereotypes that they’re the secondary caregiver. In an equitable world, many men and women would be interested in shifting work priorities and would be given the option to do so. Instead, after kids, men make more money and women make less money even after controlling for education levels and career breaks.

You know women who got involuntarily mommy tracked? I don't know any.

Yes, I’ve litigated class actions on this…

Are you OP? Pretty strange OP hasn't come back.

No? I just know a lot about pregnancy discrimination and parental leave.

So then you would know why one parent might not want to take their leave if it can be weaponized against them at work.

Honestly, if your priority as a dad is to never have to juggle work and parenthood and not have your work life change at all when you have kids - then you don’t deserve 50-50 custody.

Pick a lane. Parents are discirimated against for taking leave or they aren't. But this has nothing to do with custody.

DP, but if a parent lies to get out of caring for their child, that seems to weigh (slightly) against arguments for large amounts of custody.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if a job offers it, often men cannot take it or they will be penalized. My husband took a few days. He got little leave. It sucked.

Did he lie to you about it?

No, he did not lie but most people cannot take off six weeks without risking their job. He lied as she wouldn’t listen.

Women take off more than six weeks ALL THE TIME.

Do you think that helps or hurts their career?

It only hurts women because men don’t take comparable leave when they have children…

But it doesn't stop with maternity leave. Lots of women want to get off the fast track and onto the mommy track and have more time with their kids. It limits the career but that's the choice they want to make.

And lots of women don’t want to do that but end up mommy-tracked due to stereotypes, and lots of men feel confined by stereotypes that they’re the secondary caregiver. In an equitable world, many men and women would be interested in shifting work priorities and would be given the option to do so. Instead, after kids, men make more money and women make less money even after controlling for education levels and career breaks.

You know women who got involuntarily mommy tracked? I don't know any.

Yes, I’ve litigated class actions on this…

Are you OP? Pretty strange OP hasn't come back.

No? I just know a lot about pregnancy discrimination and parental leave.

So then you would know why one parent might not want to take their leave if it can be weaponized against them at work.

Honestly, if your priority as a dad is to never have to juggle work and parenthood and not have your work life change at all when you have kids - then you don’t deserve 50-50 custody.

Pick a lane. Parents are discirimated against for taking leave or they aren't. But this has nothing to do with custody.

It absolutely does. If a parent chooses not to be an equal parent for whatever reason then they should not expect to get 50-50 custody. “But the guys would laugh at me if I took paternity leave” is not a good rebuttal. YOU can’t have it both ways - claim that men cannot possibly be expected to do 50% during the marriage, but demand 50% after the divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if a job offers it, often men cannot take it or they will be penalized. My husband took a few days. He got little leave. It sucked.

Did he lie to you about it?

No, he did not lie but most people cannot take off six weeks without risking their job. He lied as she wouldn’t listen.

Women take off more than six weeks ALL THE TIME.

Do you think that helps or hurts their career?

It only hurts women because men don’t take comparable leave when they have children…

But it doesn't stop with maternity leave. Lots of women want to get off the fast track and onto the mommy track and have more time with their kids. It limits the career but that's the choice they want to make.

And lots of women don’t want to do that but end up mommy-tracked due to stereotypes, and lots of men feel confined by stereotypes that they’re the secondary caregiver. In an equitable world, many men and women would be interested in shifting work priorities and would be given the option to do so. Instead, after kids, men make more money and women make less money even after controlling for education levels and career breaks.

You know women who got involuntarily mommy tracked? I don't know any.

Yes, I’ve litigated class actions on this…

Are you OP? Pretty strange OP hasn't come back.

No? I just know a lot about pregnancy discrimination and parental leave.

So then you would know why one parent might not want to take their leave if it can be weaponized against them at work.

Honestly, if your priority as a dad is to never have to juggle work and parenthood and not have your work life change at all when you have kids - then you don’t deserve 50-50 custody.

Pick a lane. Parents are discirimated against for taking leave or they aren't. But this has nothing to do with custody.

DP, but if a parent lies to get out of caring for their child, that seems to weigh (slightly) against arguments for large amounts of custody.

If they have a pattern of shirking parenting then that potentially is going to weigh a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't automatically make him a bad person, OP, especially if there were office politics that meant he could never, realistically, take that much leave if he wanted to stay in the promotion lane.

But taken in the context of his divorce, it might indicate that he never prioritized his wife's wellbeing, and never challenged societal beliefs about mothers looking after children and fathers sticking to work.

I know plenty of fathers who didn't take their full leave, leaving their wives to fend for themselves with infants. Most of them are not divorced. They were afraid of being laid off or not taken seriously at work.

Not being taken seriously by… the other selfish AH’s like them?

How spineless.

When you have kids you have people depending on you. Jobs aren't that easy to come by and everyone is replaceable. Feel free to gamble with your own career.

Lololol. Again working moms do this ALL the time. If this guy’s position was “my career takes precedence over everything” no wonder he is getting divorced.

They don’t both need to be on leave at the same time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if a job offers it, often men cannot take it or they will be penalized. My husband took a few days. He got little leave. It sucked.

Did he lie to you about it?

No, he did not lie but most people cannot take off six weeks without risking their job. He lied as she wouldn’t listen.

Women take off more than six weeks ALL THE TIME.

Do you think that helps or hurts their career?

It only hurts women because men don’t take comparable leave when they have children…

But it doesn't stop with maternity leave. Lots of women want to get off the fast track and onto the mommy track and have more time with their kids. It limits the career but that's the choice they want to make.

And lots of women don’t want to do that but end up mommy-tracked due to stereotypes, and lots of men feel confined by stereotypes that they’re the secondary caregiver. In an equitable world, many men and women would be interested in shifting work priorities and would be given the option to do so. Instead, after kids, men make more money and women make less money even after controlling for education levels and career breaks.

You know women who got involuntarily mommy tracked? I don't know any.

Yes, I’ve litigated class actions on this…

Are you OP? Pretty strange OP hasn't come back.

No? I just know a lot about pregnancy discrimination and parental leave.

So then you would know why one parent might not want to take their leave if it can be weaponized against them at work.

Honestly, if your priority as a dad is to never have to juggle work and parenthood and not have your work life change at all when you have kids - then you don’t deserve 50-50 custody.

Pick a lane. Parents are discirimated against for taking leave or they aren't. But this has nothing to do with custody.

It absolutely does. If a parent chooses not to be an equal parent for whatever reason then they should not expect to get 50-50 custody. “But the guys would laugh at me if I took paternity leave” is not a good rebuttal. YOU can’t have it both ways - claim that men cannot possibly be expected to do 50% during the marriage, but demand 50% after the divorce.

Obviously this person can’t make a strong case if they are hoping this paternity leave revelation is the game changer. Maybe something more recent?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if a job offers it, often men cannot take it or they will be penalized. My husband took a few days. He got little leave. It sucked.

Did he lie to you about it?

No, he did not lie but most people cannot take off six weeks without risking their job. He lied as she wouldn’t listen.

Women take off more than six weeks ALL THE TIME.

Do you think that helps or hurts their career?

It only hurts women because men don’t take comparable leave when they have children…

But it doesn't stop with maternity leave. Lots of women want to get off the fast track and onto the mommy track and have more time with their kids. It limits the career but that's the choice they want to make.

And lots of women don’t want to do that but end up mommy-tracked due to stereotypes, and lots of men feel confined by stereotypes that they’re the secondary caregiver. In an equitable world, many men and women would be interested in shifting work priorities and would be given the option to do so. Instead, after kids, men make more money and women make less money even after controlling for education levels and career breaks.

You know women who got involuntarily mommy tracked? I don't know any.

Yes, I’ve litigated class actions on this…

Are you OP? Pretty strange OP hasn't come back.

No? I just know a lot about pregnancy discrimination and parental leave.

So then you would know why one parent might not want to take their leave if it can be weaponized against them at work.

Honestly, if your priority as a dad is to never have to juggle work and parenthood and not have your work life change at all when you have kids - then you don’t deserve 50-50 custody.

Pick a lane. Parents are discirimated against for taking leave or they aren't. But this has nothing to do with custody.

It absolutely does. If a parent chooses not to be an equal parent for whatever reason then they should not expect to get 50-50 custody. “But the guys would laugh at me if I took paternity leave” is not a good rebuttal. YOU can’t have it both ways - claim that men cannot possibly be expected to do 50% during the marriage, but demand 50% after the divorce.

So women are crying that people are laughing at them and holding them back in their careers? Were there cases all dismissed?