DS upset about loans

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spend your winter holiday wrapping gifts at Wider Circle together. Hopefully he will get over his bitterness if he spends some time wrapping gifts for families who can’t afford to buy gifts.

What does this have to do with anything. Op is pretending they are not wealthy and set this kid up.

Set them up? They’re paying $70,000 for crying out loud! Kid could go to 99% of colleges, he chose the 1% that would put him in debt. Play stupid games and you know what kinda of prizes you’ll get!

No. OP agreed to it, and she's supposed to be the parent in this relationship. An 18 year old cannot be expected to realize how hard it is to work AND study at the same time.

I fault the parent more than the kid here, simply because the parent is supposed to have more life experience and wisdom to foresee all the issues that might arise, while the 18 year old brain cannot.

I think the nature of DS's complaints are obnoxious ("why aren't you richer?"), but I also think OP made a very poor parenting decision. PP is correct that DS really had no way of knowing what he was getting himself into. OP should have known better. This option shouldn't have been on the table in the first place. Borrowing up to the federal limits and working to cover spending money is reasonable. More than that is a very hard row. Graduating with $80k in loans? Absolutely not. Surely there were more affordable options on DS's list, and he should have been told that he needed to choose one of those.

I would be firm about my financial situation and what I can afford, but also very sympathetic about the financial situation he is in and openly apologetic that I had helped put him there, and I would help him consider his options, including strongly encouraging him to think about transferring.

+1 we had a budget, kids knew what it was, and weren't allowed to consider schools that didn't have a chance of meeting that budget. Both were able to find schools that worked well for them (one in state public, one private with merit).

Now that OPs kid has a better understanding of the reality of college costs, they need to talk about options. And Mom and Dad getting richer isn't one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, my sympathies to you and your DS. My DS is also a freshman in a midwest college that also has a $92K+ COA. Like your DS, he came home for thanksgiving and we had similar discussions. I don't see it at all as your DS being bratty or ungrateful. He is simply sharing his bewilderment (and yes, some resentment, but that is not directed at you) on the realities of financial inequalities and how that is addressed in College America, i.e. the doughnut hole families ended up worse financially. I totally get how he feels since we are in the same position and felt similar financial squeeze. This is not about regretting the college choice he made. You made it clear DC is in the school that he judged to be the best fit earlier this year, including the financial aspects of it. That hasn't changed and really should continue to be the primary motivation for your DC to stay at this school. The financial aspect of 'being short' $20K/year also hasn't changed from when he made the decision to attend this college. The only thing that changed is additional perspective post matriculation that exposes the financial aid inequalities in College America. It is natural and understandable for DC (and his parents) to feel a bit burned knowing that other families in different financial situation didn't get squeezed as much as they did. However, this too shall pass, and one day your DC will be a proud graduate of the college of his choice, embarking on a career of his dreams. All the best to your family.

This. The donut hole is very real.

Plus college costs have soared in recent years, creating a tough decision for families forced to decide between expensive college/significantly lower standard of living/sacrificing retirement vs. lower priced school that's likely not kid's top choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DS is a freshman at his top choice, costing $92k/year. It’s a very good school and we’re happy he’s there. He knew from the start we could only contribute $72k each year and he’d have to work for the rest and take loans. He knew this and was nervous about it but went ahead. Now that he’s at school he seems to feel duped. He has only met full ride kids who don’t pay a dime, or wealthy kids who don’t have to work or borrow. All of those kids have more money and time than him to go out, get take out, shop. His low income fullride roommate gets Starbucks and takeout every day. He feels really upset that we as parents somehow failed him because we can “afford” to pay the whole bill but don’t. (Of course we can’t afford to pay the full bill without compromising our retirement or tightening our belts to the point of absurdity. We already live frugally). We are going to have a serious chat with him about this but has anyone been in this situation? Any advice?

Welcome to the real world kid. You’re doing him a favor. He needs to learn about budgeting and bills. It’s excellent parenting on your part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To those who keep saying DS will have $80k in loans, where are you getting that figure from? He is also working so the $20k annual gap is only partially covered by debt.

+1 It sounds like the kid has a small loan and is working to make up the difference for the $20K/year. The kid won't graduate with the full $80K ($20K x 4 years) of debt.

I get why he's upset. He has less money and time than the wealthy full pay kids (to be expected) but he also has less money and time than many of the FA kids. The latter is something that I didn't understand that we need to consider until I read this thread.

Thank OP, this is helpful. I hope your kid finds a way to make this work. Could he just find the highest-paying summer job possible and save so he can reduce the working during the school year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To those who keep saying DS will have $80k in loans, where are you getting that figure from? He is also working so the $20k annual gap is only partially covered by debt.

+1 It sounds like the kid has a small loan and is working to make up the difference for the $20K/year. The kid won't graduate with the full $80K ($20K x 4 years) of debt.

I get why he's upset. He has less money and time than the wealthy full pay kids (to be expected) but he also has less money and time than many of the FA kids. The latter is something that I didn't understand that we need to consider until I read this thread.

Thank OP, this is helpful. I hope your kid finds a way to make this work. Could he just find the highest-paying summer job possible and save so he can reduce the working during the school year?

Correct. As a freshman he can only borrow $5,500 in federal loans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, my sympathies to you and your DS. My DS is also a freshman in a midwest college that also has a $92K+ COA. Like your DS, he came home for thanksgiving and we had similar discussions. I don't see it at all as your DS being bratty or ungrateful. He is simply sharing his bewilderment (and yes, some resentment, but that is not directed at you) on the realities of financial inequalities and how that is addressed in College America, i.e. the doughnut hole families ended up worse financially. I totally get how he feels since we are in the same position and felt similar financial squeeze. This is not about regretting the college choice he made. You made it clear DC is in the school that he judged to be the best fit earlier this year, including the financial aspects of it. That hasn't changed and really should continue to be the primary motivation for your DC to stay at this school. The financial aspect of 'being short' $20K/year also hasn't changed from when he made the decision to attend this college. The only thing that changed is additional perspective post matriculation that exposes the financial aid inequalities in College America. It is natural and understandable for DC (and his parents) to feel a bit burned knowing that other families in different financial situation didn't get squeezed as much as they did. However, this too shall pass, and one day your DC will be a proud graduate of the college of his choice, embarking on a career of his dreams. All the best to your family.

This. The donut hole is very real.

Plus college costs have soared in recent years, creating a tough decision for families forced to decide between expensive college/significantly lower standard of living/sacrificing retirement vs. lower priced school that's likely not kid's top choice.

THIS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had the choice:

In-state paid in full by my parents or any school I wanted with them only contributing what they would for in-state tuition. In your scenario today’s prices that would be about $40k out of $90k.

My dad explained loans, etc. I chose in-state.
I now pay $92k each for both my kids’ Ivy education. We aren’t taking loans. It sure ain’t cheap, but I’m now more well-off than my parents were and we can swing it.

It’s interesting that you started in-state and did well, and now it sounds like your kids will also graduate with no debt and attend a prestigious school. In that case, do you actually factor ROI into the decision? Do you think they'd need that legacy and luxury donation later for their children and still able to afford the tuition? (In 20 years, $92,000 becomes roughly $244,000 with 5% inflation.)

I did fine, Fed job. I married a T10 private school guy who came from nothing and the school changed his life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DS is a freshman at his top choice, costing $92k/year. It’s a very good school and we’re happy he’s there. He knew from the start we could only contribute $72k each year and he’d have to work for the rest and take loans. He knew this and was nervous about it but went ahead. Now that he’s at school he seems to feel duped. He has only met full ride kids who don’t pay a dime, or wealthy kids who don’t have to work or borrow. All of those kids have more money and time than him to go out, get take out, shop. His low income fullride roommate gets Starbucks and takeout every day. He feels really upset that we as parents somehow failed him because we can “afford” to pay the whole bill but don’t. (Of course we can’t afford to pay the full bill without compromising our retirement or tightening our belts to the point of absurdity. We already live frugally). We are going to have a serious chat with him about this but has anyone been in this situation? Any advice?

Having access to a $92k per year higher education, and having parents who are able to contribute $72k per year – that's higher than average household income pre-tax in the U.S. – make your DS among the luckiest on this planet. He should stop complaining.

Kids over 18 can't claim they are adults and demand their independence while whining about not getting enough allowance from their parents for Starbucks. Don't crave on your planned serious chat; you are great parents and have done nothing wrong, but sometimes being too lenient on bad behaviors like this can hurt him long term. He does not seem clear on right from wrong; you need to steer him back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had the choice:

In-state paid in full by my parents or any school I wanted with them only contributing what they would for in-state tuition. In your scenario today’s prices that would be about $40k out of $90k.

My dad explained loans, etc. I chose in-state.
I now pay $92k each for both my kids’ Ivy education. We aren’t taking loans. It sure ain’t cheap, but I’m now more well-off than my parents were and we can swing it.

It’s interesting that you started in-state and did well, and now it sounds like your kids will also graduate with no debt and attend a prestigious school. In that case, do you actually factor ROI into the decision? Do you think they'd need that legacy and luxury donation later for their children and still able to afford the tuition? (In 20 years, $92,000 becomes roughly $244,000 with 5% inflation.)

I did fine, Fed job. I married a T10 private school guy who came from nothing and the school changed his life.

If you can swing it for your kids, it’s something that will always be part of them. “Where did you go to school ?” is still happening at my mom’s old folks home. Lol…and where do your grandkids go?

My kids aren’t sTEM like me, the Ivies really helped them so much from Day 1. Really really great internships while attending, etc.

[Anonymous]

Op let kid bite off more than they can chew. Earning 15k per year is tough. Anticipate potential impact on grades.

-i worked way too much in college and my grades and participation in clubs absolutely suffered.

[Anonymous]

I’m just really curious how anyone comes to the conclusion that any bachelors degree is worth $400,000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spend your winter holiday wrapping gifts at Wider Circle together. Hopefully he will get over his bitterness if he spends some time wrapping gifts for families who can’t afford to buy gifts.

What does this have to do with anything. Op is pretending they are not wealthy and set this kid up.

Set them up? They’re paying $70,000 for crying out loud! Kid could go to 99% of colleges, he chose the 1% that would put him in debt. Play stupid games and you know what kinda of prizes you’ll get!

No. OP agreed to it, and she's supposed to be the parent in this relationship. An 18 year old cannot be expected to realize how hard it is to work AND study at the same time.

I fault the parent more than the kid here, simply because the parent is supposed to have more life experience and wisdom to foresee all the issues that might arise, while the 18 year old brain cannot.

I think the nature of DS's complaints are obnoxious ("why aren't you richer?"), but I also think OP made a very poor parenting decision. PP is correct that DS really had no way of knowing what he was getting himself into. OP should have known better. This option shouldn't have been on the table in the first place. Borrowing up to the federal limits and working to cover spending money is reasonable. More than that is a very hard row. Graduating with $80k in loans? Absolutely not. Surely there were more affordable options on DS's list, and he should have been told that he needed to choose one of those.

I would be firm about my financial situation and what I can afford, but also very sympathetic about the financial situation he is in and openly apologetic that I had helped put him there, and I would help him consider his options, including strongly encouraging him to think about transferring.

+1 we had a budget, kids knew what it was, and weren't allowed to consider schools that didn't have a chance of meeting that budget. Both were able to find schools that worked well for them (one in state public, one private with merit).

Now that OPs kid has a better understanding of the reality of college costs, they need to talk about options. And Mom and Dad getting richer isn't one of them.

+1 We discussed all this with our kids when they were applying. They knew the budget.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Find the money. If you can pay $72k you are wealthy. You should not have agreed to this.

$80,000 is way too much debt for undergrad, I too would not have given the kid this option. You should have set a budget with him and applied accordingly. Teens cannot appreciate the emotional and financial load of starting out with so much debt.

[Anonymous]

I am going to avoid giving financial advice to another family.
However, as to the student themselves this is a real problem. I just spent the holiday with my DC home from his 92k+ college (we are full pay) and he reports that the money situation is very apparent on campus. Its a bar bell with most at either end and his is a school where financial aid is not loans or work study so the only kids in that situation are the donut hole ones. I can well imagine OP's son feeling unfairness from that situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m just really curious how anyone comes to the conclusion that any bachelors degree is worth $400,000.

Exactly! It’s just undergrad!