Can we just stop importing dogs from other states?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a close relative who has run a county animal shelter for years. As she puts it, "the south really needs to get its shit together." It's full hicks who don't spay or neuter and states and counties that don't fund their shelters nearly well enough. So we northerners can either do nothing about it and let the dogs die or try to help. Hence, the rescues.

She says there are good rescues and bad ones. Any rescue that charges more than a couple hundred dollars and doesn't spay or neuter before making the dog available is suspect and shouldn't be trusted.

The biggest problem is rescues is generally speaking their animals are fostered before being adopted--not kept in rescue "facilities"--so when the adoption doesn't work out there's no where to return them to and the rescue won't take them back. So they end up in shelters and the south becomes the north's problem.

Any idea on how to fix the stupid down South?

It’s not because of “hicks” or “stupidity,” it’s policy. Spay/neuter laws and policies work. The southern states don’t have them because they see it as infringement on property rights.

I actually think that’s their business but they should euthanize the discarded puppies and stop shipping them up here. It distorts and discourages the market for ethically bred companion dogs. The breed people are mostly no help, because they’re breeding for breed standards that aren’t about being good pets. You can’t tell me that a French bulldog is ethical when you could just cross breed them and solve a lot of their horrific health problems in a few generations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a close relative who has run a county animal shelter for years. As she puts it, "the south really needs to get its shit together." It's full hicks who don't spay or neuter and states and counties that don't fund their shelters nearly well enough. So we northerners can either do nothing about it and let the dogs die or try to help. Hence, the rescues.

She says there are good rescues and bad ones. Any rescue that charges more than a couple hundred dollars and doesn't spay or neuter before making the dog available is suspect and shouldn't be trusted.

The biggest problem is rescues is generally speaking their animals are fostered before being adopted--not kept in rescue "facilities"--so when the adoption doesn't work out there's no where to return them to and the rescue won't take them back. So they end up in shelters and the south becomes the north's problem.

Any idea on how to fix the stupid down South?

It’s not because of “hicks” or “stupidity,” it’s policy. Spay/neuter laws and policies work. The southern states don’t have them because they see it as infringement on property rights.

I actually think that’s their business but they should euthanize the discarded puppies and stop shipping them up here. It distorts and discourages the market for ethically bred companion dogs. The breed people are mostly no help, because they’re breeding for breed standards that aren’t about being good pets. You can’t tell me that a French bulldog is ethical when you could just cross breed them and solve a lot of their horrific health problems in a few generations.

Ever since the FDA started to approve vet medicines, the cost of vet care has gone through the roof. Of course no one wants animals dying from contaminated medicines. But vaccines, meds, and procedures are wildly expensive now.

There needs to be some balance between safety and labeling and cost. Even in DMV people can’t affford vet care. Poor people in the “South” can’t afford vet care and neutering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a close relative who has run a county animal shelter for years. As she puts it, "the south really needs to get its shit together." It's full hicks who don't spay or neuter and states and counties that don't fund their shelters nearly well enough. So we northerners can either do nothing about it and let the dogs die or try to help. Hence, the rescues.

She says there are good rescues and bad ones. Any rescue that charges more than a couple hundred dollars and doesn't spay or neuter before making the dog available is suspect and shouldn't be trusted.

The biggest problem is rescues is generally speaking their animals are fostered before being adopted--not kept in rescue "facilities"--so when the adoption doesn't work out there's no where to return them to and the rescue won't take them back. So they end up in shelters and the south becomes the north's problem.

Any idea on how to fix the stupid down South?

It’s not because of “hicks” or “stupidity,” it’s policy. Spay/neuter laws and policies work. The southern states don’t have them because they see it as infringement on property rights.

I actually think that’s their business but they should euthanize the discarded puppies and stop shipping them up here. It distorts and discourages the market for ethically bred companion dogs. The breed people are mostly no help, because they’re breeding for breed standards that aren’t about being good pets. You can’t tell me that a French bulldog is ethical when you could just cross breed them and solve a lot of their horrific health problems in a few generations.

Ever since the FDA started to approve vet medicines, the cost of vet care has gone through the roof. Of course no one wants animals dying from contaminated medicines. But vaccines, meds, and procedures are wildly expensive now.

There needs to be some balance between safety and labeling and cost. Even in DMV people can’t affford vet care. Poor people in the “South” can’t afford vet care and neutering.

Can you explain more?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I foster for a rescue and also work with shelter dogs. Shelters feed the dogs and that’s about it. Some might give vaccines if the dogs are puppies or meds if the dogs are super sick. But not much else and it costs a shelter to keep a dog there a lot. Rescues commit to spaying/neutering their dogs. Have you seen how much that is? Hundreds. Also they vaccinate every puppy and unvaccinated dogs. The heartworm and flea preventatives also aren’t cheap. That is a minimum of what every rescue does for every dog. If they are sick, well costs go up. Many rescues don’t include food in this since fosters generally pick that up, like myself. I have even paid for some medical bills for my fosters because I felt bad for the rescue being short on funds. A typical foster fee should be about $500 for young dogs and no the rescue doesn’t profit from that. They make money with donations. This is why shelter dogs can be free and rescue dogs have a fee.

I don't know what shelter you work with, but I think you've gotten this a bit backwards. Every shelter I've ever worked for has had a government budget supplemented with donations. They perform medical procedures, including spay/neuter, vax all their animals, deworm... The reason their adoption fees are lower than rescues is scale. When all you do is rescue dogs and cats, and you have a government budget for doing so, you can purchase in bulk, etc. and save on costs. Smaller rescues don't have that, which is why their prices are higher. They have volunteers and people using their own funds to provide what the pets need, plus contracts with local vets which can help lower some of the costs (many of your "rescue" pets got their spay/neuter from the shelter).

Either way, very few of these orgs are making a profit. The one or two that do have some VERY scammy practices going on (cooked books, exploited volunteers...). $500 for a dog should be considered a bare minimum. If you can't afford it, you probably can't afford to properly care for the dog, either.

Why would I go to a rescue and pay $500 plus when I can go to a well known/trusted breeder and get a pure bred dog? With a breeder, I would know genetic info on the do I get and have a decent understanding of disposition.

I feel folks working rescue forget the fact that they are doing it to save animals. You should be happy that people go there to adopt and save a dog/cat from being euthenized. Start charging "at least 500 - bare minimum" and people (like me) will just spend the money for pure bread pets.

Pure bread pets are all you seem responsible enough for handling, as you don't seem to understand that no breeder is going to offer you a purebred anything worth having for less than several thousand dollars. There are very few reputable breeders in a world where there's such a ridiculous glut of unwanted dogs, and even fewer responsible owners who buy one. A purebred dog isn't magically trained or guaranteed in any way. While some pedigreed dogs may have certain genetic traits and dispositions their offspring may/may not inherit, those latent traits are basically meaningless without the exact same time and training any other dog would need to be a decent pet dog, which is all you're really qualified to handle.

If you really need a working breed to herd your sheep or retrieve your ducks, you're not making this argument.

"Responsible enough to handle" what does this even mean? Seems like something idiotic to add to an already bad argument. You entire premise sounds like you pulled it out of your fourth point of contact (ass) - based on some "feeling" you have.

No dog is magically anything, but getting one from a decent breeder gets you a better understanding of its temperament. A rescue is an aunknown. Both options are fine, but a rescue should not cost close to what a decent breeder charges.

"Pure bread pets are all you seem responsible enough for handling" i.e. a pet made of bread is all the pp should be responsible for, as an actual dog seems beyond their skill level.

But as for the bolded, yes. That's actually the whole point. No rescue ($300-$600) is charging anywhere near what a decent, reputable breeder should be charging ($5000+, depending on actual breed, not designer mutts). Anything less is as much an unknown as a rescue, as lesser-quality, less-reputable breeders don't test or breed for temperament (see all the -poos and -doodles if you need an example).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a close relative who has run a county animal shelter for years. As she puts it, "the south really needs to get its shit together." It's full hicks who don't spay or neuter and states and counties that don't fund their shelters nearly well enough. So we northerners can either do nothing about it and let the dogs die or try to help. Hence, the rescues.

She says there are good rescues and bad ones. Any rescue that charges more than a couple hundred dollars and doesn't spay or neuter before making the dog available is suspect and shouldn't be trusted.

The biggest problem is rescues is generally speaking their animals are fostered before being adopted--not kept in rescue "facilities"--so when the adoption doesn't work out there's no where to return them to and the rescue won't take them back. So they end up in shelters and the south becomes the north's problem.

Any idea on how to fix the stupid down South?

It’s not because of “hicks” or “stupidity,” it’s policy. Spay/neuter laws and policies work. The southern states don’t have them because they see it as infringement on property rights.

I actually think that’s their business but they should euthanize the discarded puppies and stop shipping them up here. It distorts and discourages the market for ethically bred companion dogs. The breed people are mostly no help, because they’re breeding for breed standards that aren’t about being good pets. You can’t tell me that a French bulldog is ethical when you could just cross breed them and solve a lot of their horrific health problems in a few generations.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I foster for a rescue and also work with shelter dogs. Shelters feed the dogs and that’s about it. Some might give vaccines if the dogs are puppies or meds if the dogs are super sick. But not much else and it costs a shelter to keep a dog there a lot. Rescues commit to spaying/neutering their dogs. Have you seen how much that is? Hundreds. Also they vaccinate every puppy and unvaccinated dogs. The heartworm and flea preventatives also aren’t cheap. That is a minimum of what every rescue does for every dog. If they are sick, well costs go up. Many rescues don’t include food in this since fosters generally pick that up, like myself. I have even paid for some medical bills for my fosters because I felt bad for the rescue being short on funds. A typical foster fee should be about $500 for young dogs and no the rescue doesn’t profit from that. They make money with donations. This is why shelter dogs can be free and rescue dogs have a fee.

I don't know what shelter you work with, but I think you've gotten this a bit backwards. Every shelter I've ever worked for has had a government budget supplemented with donations. They perform medical procedures, including spay/neuter, vax all their animals, deworm... The reason their adoption fees are lower than rescues is scale. When all you do is rescue dogs and cats, and you have a government budget for doing so, you can purchase in bulk, etc. and save on costs. Smaller rescues don't have that, which is why their prices are higher. They have volunteers and people using their own funds to provide what the pets need, plus contracts with local vets which can help lower some of the costs (many of your "rescue" pets got their spay/neuter from the shelter).

Either way, very few of these orgs are making a profit. The one or two that do have some VERY scammy practices going on (cooked books, exploited volunteers...). $500 for a dog should be considered a bare minimum. If you can't afford it, you probably can't afford to properly care for the dog, either.

Why would I go to a rescue and pay $500 plus when I can go to a well known/trusted breeder and get a pure bred dog? With a breeder, I would know genetic info on the do I get and have a decent understanding of disposition.

I feel folks working rescue forget the fact that they are doing it to save animals. You should be happy that people go there to adopt and save a dog/cat from being euthenized. Start charging "at least 500 - bare minimum" and people (like me) will just spend the money for pure bread pets.

Pure bread pets are all you seem responsible enough for handling, as you don't seem to understand that no breeder is going to offer you a purebred anything worth having for less than several thousand dollars. There are very few reputable breeders in a world where there's such a ridiculous glut of unwanted dogs, and even fewer responsible owners who buy one. A purebred dog isn't magically trained or guaranteed in any way. While some pedigreed dogs may have certain genetic traits and dispositions their offspring may/may not inherit, those latent traits are basically meaningless without the exact same time and training any other dog would need to be a decent pet dog, which is all you're really qualified to handle.

If you really need a working breed to herd your sheep or retrieve your ducks, you're not making this argument.

"Responsible enough to handle" what does this even mean? Seems like something idiotic to add to an already bad argument. You entire premise sounds like you pulled it out of your fourth point of contact (ass) - based on some "feeling" you have.

No dog is magically anything, but getting one from a decent breeder gets you a better understanding of its temperament. A rescue is an aunknown. Both options are fine, but a rescue should not cost close to what a decent breeder charges.

"Pure bread pets are all you seem responsible enough for handling" i.e. a pet made of bread is all the pp should be responsible for, as an actual dog seems beyond their skill level.

But as for the bolded, yes. That's actually the whole point. No rescue ($300-$600) is charging anywhere near what a decent, reputable breeder should be charging ($5000+, depending on actual breed, not designer mutts). Anything less is as much an unknown as a rescue, as lesser-quality, less-reputable breeders don't test or breed for temperament (see all the -poos and -doodles if you need an example).

I think you are certifiably insane in your hatred of doodles aka designer mutts.

And no, purebred dogs don’t have to cost 5k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I foster for a rescue and also work with shelter dogs. Shelters feed the dogs and that’s about it. Some might give vaccines if the dogs are puppies or meds if the dogs are super sick. But not much else and it costs a shelter to keep a dog there a lot. Rescues commit to spaying/neutering their dogs. Have you seen how much that is? Hundreds. Also they vaccinate every puppy and unvaccinated dogs. The heartworm and flea preventatives also aren’t cheap. That is a minimum of what every rescue does for every dog. If they are sick, well costs go up. Many rescues don’t include food in this since fosters generally pick that up, like myself. I have even paid for some medical bills for my fosters because I felt bad for the rescue being short on funds. A typical foster fee should be about $500 for young dogs and no the rescue doesn’t profit from that. They make money with donations. This is why shelter dogs can be free and rescue dogs have a fee.

I don't know what shelter you work with, but I think you've gotten this a bit backwards. Every shelter I've ever worked for has had a government budget supplemented with donations. They perform medical procedures, including spay/neuter, vax all their animals, deworm... The reason their adoption fees are lower than rescues is scale. When all you do is rescue dogs and cats, and you have a government budget for doing so, you can purchase in bulk, etc. and save on costs. Smaller rescues don't have that, which is why their prices are higher. They have volunteers and people using their own funds to provide what the pets need, plus contracts with local vets which can help lower some of the costs (many of your "rescue" pets got their spay/neuter from the shelter).

Either way, very few of these orgs are making a profit. The one or two that do have some VERY scammy practices going on (cooked books, exploited volunteers...). $500 for a dog should be considered a bare minimum. If you can't afford it, you probably can't afford to properly care for the dog, either.

Why would I go to a rescue and pay $500 plus when I can go to a well known/trusted breeder and get a pure bred dog? With a breeder, I would know genetic info on the do I get and have a decent understanding of disposition.

I feel folks working rescue forget the fact that they are doing it to save animals. You should be happy that people go there to adopt and save a dog/cat from being euthenized. Start charging "at least 500 - bare minimum" and people (like me) will just spend the money for pure bread pets.

Pure bread pets are all you seem responsible enough for handling, as you don't seem to understand that no breeder is going to offer you a purebred anything worth having for less than several thousand dollars. There are very few reputable breeders in a world where there's such a ridiculous glut of unwanted dogs, and even fewer responsible owners who buy one. A purebred dog isn't magically trained or guaranteed in any way. While some pedigreed dogs may have certain genetic traits and dispositions their offspring may/may not inherit, those latent traits are basically meaningless without the exact same time and training any other dog would need to be a decent pet dog, which is all you're really qualified to handle.

If you really need a working breed to herd your sheep or retrieve your ducks, you're not making this argument.

"Responsible enough to handle" what does this even mean? Seems like something idiotic to add to an already bad argument. You entire premise sounds like you pulled it out of your fourth point of contact (ass) - based on some "feeling" you have.

No dog is magically anything, but getting one from a decent breeder gets you a better understanding of its temperament. A rescue is an aunknown. Both options are fine, but a rescue should not cost close to what a decent breeder charges.

"Pure bread pets are all you seem responsible enough for handling" i.e. a pet made of bread is all the pp should be responsible for, as an actual dog seems beyond their skill level.

But as for the bolded, yes. That's actually the whole point. No rescue ($300-$600) is charging anywhere near what a decent, reputable breeder should be charging ($5000+, depending on actual breed, not designer mutts). Anything less is as much an unknown as a rescue, as lesser-quality, less-reputable breeders don't test or breed for temperament (see all the -poos and -doodles if you need an example).

I think you are certifiably insane in your hatred of doodles aka designer mutts.

And no, purebred dogs don’t have to cost 5k.

I think using ableism as a "sick burn" reveals a weak point, and probably a weak mind, but you can say whatever you please however you want to.

A reputable breeder runs their business like a business. A business needs to recoup costs, including labor, overhead, etc. while maintaining high quality control standards and sustainable practices. This likely means a litter every other year, at most, to allow the breeding dogs time to recover. One litter every two years isn't going to bring in much of an income at all, and reputable breeders usually have more than one litter for that reason. Still, the cost of properly vetting, training, testing, breeding, and caring for their stock means that puppies do, in fact, cost thousands. Anyone selling them for less is cutting corners somewhere, and it's usually quality. Maybe they don't run genetic testing. Maybe they overbreed their dogs. Maybe they keep them in awful conditions... There's no way to ethically run a dog breeding business that isn't at significant risk of operating at a loss.

The rise of the -doodles and -poos led to the same nonsense literally every other fad breed created: dogs that aren't properly vetted for temperament, overbred by backyard/hobbyist breeders who don't run adequate genetic testing, often keeping the dogs in substandard housing conditions and selling them at what would be a loss for an ethical breeder because they're just doing it "because they love dogs" and want the pocket money.

Purebred animals are very much a case of "you get what you pay for" and "buyer beware". If you're upset about rescues charging less than a grand for a dog, you really don't understand what goes into caring for a dog of any type and probably shouldn't have one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a close relative who has run a county animal shelter for years. As she puts it, "the south really needs to get its shit together." It's full hicks who don't spay or neuter and states and counties that don't fund their shelters nearly well enough. So we northerners can either do nothing about it and let the dogs die or try to help. Hence, the rescues.

She says there are good rescues and bad ones. Any rescue that charges more than a couple hundred dollars and doesn't spay or neuter before making the dog available is suspect and shouldn't be trusted.

The biggest problem is rescues is generally speaking their animals are fostered before being adopted--not kept in rescue "facilities"--so when the adoption doesn't work out there's no where to return them to and the rescue won't take them back. So they end up in shelters and the south becomes the north's problem.

Any idea on how to fix the stupid down South?

It’s not because of “hicks” or “stupidity,” it’s policy. Spay/neuter laws and policies work. The southern states don’t have them because they see it as infringement on property rights.

I actually think that’s their business but they should euthanize the discarded puppies and stop shipping them up here. It distorts and discourages the market for ethically bred companion dogs. The breed people are mostly no help, because they’re breeding for breed standards that aren’t about being good pets. You can’t tell me that a French bulldog is ethical when you could just cross breed them and solve a lot of their horrific health problems in a few generations.

We could use policy to restrict the import of these animals into our state and they could live with their lack of policy in the south but that’s not going to happen.

Nobody has mentioned all the dogs coming from foreign countries. When we were looking for a dog a few yrs ago, a lot of them were rescued from kuwait.

[Anonymous]

I don't like the idea of closing state boarders for dog (besides it's most likely unconstitutional - restrictions on moving property between state lines???)
Dogs from foreign countries is different. Not that I like it, but if someone is willing to spend money on that move and jump all the hoops from CDC, USDA and CBP - it's their business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a close relative who has run a county animal shelter for years. As she puts it, "the south really needs to get its shit together." It's full hicks who don't spay or neuter and states and counties that don't fund their shelters nearly well enough. So we northerners can either do nothing about it and let the dogs die or try to help. Hence, the rescues.

She says there are good rescues and bad ones. Any rescue that charges more than a couple hundred dollars and doesn't spay or neuter before making the dog available is suspect and shouldn't be trusted.

The biggest problem is rescues is generally speaking their animals are fostered before being adopted--not kept in rescue "facilities"--so when the adoption doesn't work out there's no where to return them to and the rescue won't take them back. So they end up in shelters and the south becomes the north's problem.

Any idea on how to fix the stupid down South?

It’s not because of “hicks” or “stupidity,” it’s policy. Spay/neuter laws and policies work. The southern states don’t have them because they see it as infringement on property rights.

I actually think that’s their business but they should euthanize the discarded puppies and stop shipping them up here. It distorts and discourages the market for ethically bred companion dogs. The breed people are mostly no help, because they’re breeding for breed standards that aren’t about being good pets. You can’t tell me that a French bulldog is ethical when you could just cross breed them and solve a lot of their horrific health problems in a few generations.

Ever since the FDA started to approve vet medicines, the cost of vet care has gone through the roof. Of course no one wants animals dying from contaminated medicines. But vaccines, meds, and procedures are wildly expensive now.

There needs to be some balance between safety and labeling and cost. Even in DMV people can’t affford vet care. Poor people in the “South” can’t afford vet care and neutering.

While pet meds are outrageous, I vote that it’s due to private equity gobbling up vet practices. PE buys them, saddles them with debt and forces them to raise prices.

I have a new puppy and it’s insane how expensive it is. The puppy insurance plan for the first year that includes everything they need is $2,500. I mean I want my dog to have distemper, kennel cough and rabies but that’s too much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't like the idea of closing state boarders for dog (besides it's most likely unconstitutional - restrictions on moving property between state lines???)
Dogs from foreign countries is different. Not that I like it, but if someone is willing to spend money on that move and jump all the hoops from CDC, USDA and CBP - it's their business.

Disagree. They shouldn’t be importing dogs from foreign countries. I’m okay with families moving with their dogs though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I foster for a rescue and also work with shelter dogs. Shelters feed the dogs and that’s about it. Some might give vaccines if the dogs are puppies or meds if the dogs are super sick. But not much else and it costs a shelter to keep a dog there a lot. Rescues commit to spaying/neutering their dogs. Have you seen how much that is? Hundreds. Also they vaccinate every puppy and unvaccinated dogs. The heartworm and flea preventatives also aren’t cheap. That is a minimum of what every rescue does for every dog. If they are sick, well costs go up. Many rescues don’t include food in this since fosters generally pick that up, like myself. I have even paid for some medical bills for my fosters because I felt bad for the rescue being short on funds. A typical foster fee should be about $500 for young dogs and no the rescue doesn’t profit from that. They make money with donations. This is why shelter dogs can be free and rescue dogs have a fee.

I don't know what shelter you work with, but I think you've gotten this a bit backwards. Every shelter I've ever worked for has had a government budget supplemented with donations. They perform medical procedures, including spay/neuter, vax all their animals, deworm... The reason their adoption fees are lower than rescues is scale. When all you do is rescue dogs and cats, and you have a government budget for doing so, you can purchase in bulk, etc. and save on costs. Smaller rescues don't have that, which is why their prices are higher. They have volunteers and people using their own funds to provide what the pets need, plus contracts with local vets which can help lower some of the costs (many of your "rescue" pets got their spay/neuter from the shelter).

Either way, very few of these orgs are making a profit. The one or two that do have some VERY scammy practices going on (cooked books, exploited volunteers...). $500 for a dog should be considered a bare minimum. If you can't afford it, you probably can't afford to properly care for the dog, either.

Why would I go to a rescue and pay $500 plus when I can go to a well known/trusted breeder and get a pure bred dog? With a breeder, I would know genetic info on the do I get and have a decent understanding of disposition.

I feel folks working rescue forget the fact that they are doing it to save animals. You should be happy that people go there to adopt and save a dog/cat from being euthenized. Start charging "at least 500 - bare minimum" and people (like me) will just spend the money for pure bread pets.

Pure bread pets are all you seem responsible enough for handling, as you don't seem to understand that no breeder is going to offer you a purebred anything worth having for less than several thousand dollars. There are very few reputable breeders in a world where there's such a ridiculous glut of unwanted dogs, and even fewer responsible owners who buy one. A purebred dog isn't magically trained or guaranteed in any way. While some pedigreed dogs may have certain genetic traits and dispositions their offspring may/may not inherit, those latent traits are basically meaningless without the exact same time and training any other dog would need to be a decent pet dog, which is all you're really qualified to handle.

If you really need a working breed to herd your sheep or retrieve your ducks, you're not making this argument.

"Responsible enough to handle" what does this even mean? Seems like something idiotic to add to an already bad argument. You entire premise sounds like you pulled it out of your fourth point of contact (ass) - based on some "feeling" you have.

No dog is magically anything, but getting one from a decent breeder gets you a better understanding of its temperament. A rescue is an aunknown. Both options are fine, but a rescue should not cost close to what a decent breeder charges.

"Pure bread pets are all you seem responsible enough for handling" i.e. a pet made of bread is all the pp should be responsible for, as an actual dog seems beyond their skill level.

But as for the bolded, yes. That's actually the whole point. No rescue ($300-$600) is charging anywhere near what a decent, reputable breeder should be charging ($5000+, depending on actual breed, not designer mutts). Anything less is as much an unknown as a rescue, as lesser-quality, less-reputable breeders don't test or breed for temperament (see all the -poos and -doodles if you need an example).

I think you are certifiably insane in your hatred of doodles aka designer mutts.

And no, purebred dogs don’t have to cost 5k.

I think using ableism as a "sick burn" reveals a weak point, and probably a weak mind, but you can say whatever you please however you want to.

A reputable breeder runs their business like a business. A business needs to recoup costs, including labor, overhead, etc. while maintaining high quality control standards and sustainable practices. This likely means a litter every other year, at most, to allow the breeding dogs time to recover. One litter every two years isn't going to bring in much of an income at all, and reputable breeders usually have more than one litter for that reason. Still, the cost of properly vetting, training, testing, breeding, and caring for their stock means that puppies do, in fact, cost thousands. Anyone selling them for less is cutting corners somewhere, and it's usually quality. Maybe they don't run genetic testing. Maybe they overbreed their dogs. Maybe they keep them in awful conditions... There's no way to ethically run a dog breeding business that isn't at significant risk of operating at a loss.

The rise of the -doodles and -poos led to the same nonsense literally every other fad breed created: dogs that aren't properly vetted for temperament, overbred by backyard/hobbyist breeders who don't run adequate genetic testing, often keeping the dogs in substandard housing conditions and selling them at what would be a loss for an ethical breeder because they're just doing it "because they love dogs" and want the pocket money.

Purebred animals are very much a case of "you get what you pay for" and "buyer beware". If you're upset about rescues charging less than a grand for a dog, you really don't understand what goes into caring for a dog of any type and probably shouldn't have one.

I think anyone understands that puppies cost $$$. But a dog from the pound should be $250. A rescue dog is a dog that you’re doing a favor for and they likely have issues. A puppy comes from a wonderful home and you can raise it to be how you want it. I’ve done both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would have happily paid $5k for a dog bred ethically to be a healthy family pet. Good luck finding one.

The problem with the AKC is they aren’t trying to meet the pet market. They care about breed standards, which I dgaf about. They prioritize that over health. They’re terrible at marketing. I tried contacting a few breeders through the AKC directory and they didn’t even respond.

The problem with rescues is they’re not articulating their long term vision beyond continuing to prop up backyard pit and hound breeders in the south. I can’t believe all those puppies are accidents. People are discarding them.

That’s why I have a cockapoo. It’s a great little dog without a work drive I don’t need or insane conformation issues. The breeder was easy to contact and seemed reasonably ethical.

Huh? For 5k you can easily get the dog of your dreams. More like $3000-3500 and you can have a dog who is bred perfectly, who has a mom with a calm pregnancy, calm puppyhood, and is bred according to breed standards (this is different for every breed whether you want a hunting dog or a cuddly one who would never in a million years bite a child.) I’m convinced the mom dogs raise the dogs just like they were raised. Bad mom dogs pass on their trauma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't like the idea of closing state boarders for dog (besides it's most likely unconstitutional - restrictions on moving property between state lines???)
Dogs from foreign countries is different. Not that I like it, but if someone is willing to spend money on that move and jump all the hoops from CDC, USDA and CBP - it's their business.

Unconstitutional? California restricts many animals and plants from crossing their border.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have happily paid $5k for a dog bred ethically to be a healthy family pet. Good luck finding one.

The problem with the AKC is they aren’t trying to meet the pet market. They care about breed standards, which I dgaf about. They prioritize that over health. They’re terrible at marketing. I tried contacting a few breeders through the AKC directory and they didn’t even respond.

The problem with rescues is they’re not articulating their long term vision beyond continuing to prop up backyard pit and hound breeders in the south. I can’t believe all those puppies are accidents. People are discarding them.

That’s why I have a cockapoo. It’s a great little dog without a work drive I don’t need or insane conformation issues. The breeder was easy to contact and seemed reasonably ethical.

Huh? For 5k you can easily get the dog of your dreams. More like $3000-3500 and you can have a dog who is bred perfectly, who has a mom with a calm pregnancy, calm puppyhood, and is bred according to breed standards (this is different for every breed whether you want a hunting dog or a cuddly one who would never in a million years bite a child.) I’m convinced the mom dogs raise the dogs just like they were raised. Bad mom dogs pass on their trauma.

Leaving aside the ridiculous woo of your last sentence, but the bolded needs to be addressed because it's a common misconception. ALL DOGS CAN BITE. Don't believe the trope of the perfect puppy bred to be a dog who never bites due to genetics alone. It's a myth.