American Women Are Giving Up on Marriage (Wall Street Journal)

[Anonymous]

White women are not marrying in America? Or is this true of all races and SES?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:White women are not marrying in America? Or is this true of all races and SES?

This is a proxy for SES:

Men’s economic struggles seem to be having the biggest effect on women without a college degree, whose marriage rates by age 45 have plummeted from 79% to 52% for those born between 1930 and 1980, according to research by Cornell University economist Benjamin Goldman. “Young men without a degree are struggling so much as a group that there simply aren’t enough with steady jobs and earnings for non-college women to date,” said Goldman.

[Anonymous]

So are Chinese women -

[Anonymous]

It's far worse for Asian women...which is why marriage rates and birthrates are plummeting for both.

I believe if you see a woman with a stroller in Seoul, it's more likely to have a toy dog vs. a kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Young men without a degree are struggling so much as a group that there simply aren’t enough with steady jobs and earnings for non-college women to date,” said Goldman.

This^. There is a shortage of single, young, educated, employed and decent men. Ones who are available, they've plenty of educated, employed and decent women to choose from.

[Anonymous]

Minority singles are at a higher disadvantage. Whites being a majority have more options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's far worse for Asian women...which is why marriage rates and birthrates are plummeting for both.

I believe if you see a woman with a stroller in Seoul, it's more likely to have a toy dog vs. a kid.

It's been like this for some time in Japan as well. Japan is ranked 111th in the World Economic Forum's Global Gender Gap Report 2016. They never had a feminist movement, so married women are still expected to fulfill very traditional gender roles, including taking care of their husbands, kids, and in-laws. It was tradition for a wife to move into her husband's family home and care for his family. Under those circumstances, I'd rather stay single, too. My friend from college who came to the US for boarding school then US college is still single in her forties (and she's super pretty and still looks like she's in her twenties, so it's not that she doesn't attract men).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: How many women, if given the chance to do it all over, would avoid marriage? And if you want children, choose to become single mothers instead. I know I would.

Me too. I've been married a long time and plan to stay married but if I had to do it over, I'd stat single and have one child. It was not something women did when I was young but if I were coming up now, I would choose this. Marriage can be great but it's not necessary either. I grew up thinking I had to get married. I've always been an independent person and I would have been fine living on my own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So are Chinese women -

It's global. Same for South Korean women.

Agree with a PP.. women now have choices. My mother got married because she didn't have many choices for her life. I don't think otherwise she would've ever married my dad. They have a horrible marriage.

I'm very glad that I and my 17 yr old DD have choices. Men need to step up.

My 30 yr old niece with a graduate degree is married to a plumber. She was previously dating a guy with a degree but he was lazy, and she couldn't see herself married to such a lazy person, let alone have kids with him. The plumber is not lazy, and their goals and lifestyle align better.

So, it's not just about the education, but about maturity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's far worse for Asian women...which is why marriage rates and birthrates are plummeting for both.

I believe if you see a woman with a stroller in Seoul, it's more likely to have a toy dog vs. a kid.

It's been like this for some time in Japan as well. Japan is ranked 111th in the World Economic Forum's Global Gender Gap Report 2016. They never had a feminist movement, so married women are still expected to fulfill very traditional gender roles, including taking care of their husbands, kids, and in-laws. It was tradition for a wife to move into her husband's family home and care for his family. Under those circumstances, I'd rather stay single, too. My friend from college who came to the US for boarding school then US college is still single in her forties (and she's super pretty and still looks like she's in her twenties, so it's not that she doesn't attract men).

+1 If men had to do all these things, they wouldn't want to get married and have kids, either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Young men without a degree are struggling so much as a group that there simply aren’t enough with steady jobs and earnings for non-college women to date,” said Goldman.

This^. There is a shortage of single, young, educated, employed and decent men. Ones who are available, they've plenty of educated, employed and decent women to choose from.

I would redefine this as skilled. And at least HS grads and trade school. Those make great income after their apprenticeships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's far worse for Asian women...which is why marriage rates and birthrates are plummeting for both.

I believe if you see a woman with a stroller in Seoul, it's more likely to have a toy dog vs. a kid.

It's been like this for some time in Japan as well. Japan is ranked 111th in the World Economic Forum's Global Gender Gap Report 2016. They never had a feminist movement, so married women are still expected to fulfill very traditional gender roles, including taking care of their husbands, kids, and in-laws. It was tradition for a wife to move into her husband's family home and care for his family. Under those circumstances, I'd rather stay single, too. My friend from college who came to the US for boarding school then US college is still single in her forties (and she's super pretty and still looks like she's in her twenties, so it's not that she doesn't attract men).

+1 If men had to do all these things, they wouldn't want to get married and have kids, either.

+2. I'd add in their all consuming work culture that makes it basically impossible to both have a family and a job and it's not surprising at all the women are opting out. I worked for several years in Japan and met one working mom and she was really a unicorn. There's a lot I like about Japan but I would never want to be Japanese. They're going to have to shift culturally if they're really concerned about their demographics and I don't see any indication they're willing to do so. My Japanese girlfriends married foreigners and got the heck out.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting because my understanding is that the sociological data shows that married parents have high levels of happiness. Having a stable family is an overall benefit to the individuals involved and society.

Certain demographic groups are more successful in forming and maintaining families including the college educated professional class, Asian Americans, and more religious people.

We talk about this issue with our teen. Alongside college and career prep, we want him to know the importance of family and the value of intentionally prioritizing a good marriage. It doesn’t just magically happen. Effort is both required and rewarded.

Nope - single women are happiest, followed by married men. I forget whether single men or married women are least happy.

We talk with our teen DD about choosing a partner who shares your values and will pull their weight.

You're incorrect. Data show married people are happier--both men and women.
From Stack, Steven, and J. Ross Eshleman. "Marital status and happiness: A 17-nation study." Journal of Marriage and the Family (1998): 527-536:
"Research on marital status and happiness has
tended to be restricted to the U.S. We extend the
analysis to a set of 17 industrialized nations with
diverse social and institutional frameworks. Con-
trolling for sociodemographic variables, we found
that married persons have a significantly higher
level of happiness than persons who are not mar-
ried."

1998?? It's a different world now.

Here's more recent data from 2022 General Social Survey: https://ifstudies.org/blog/who-is-happiest-married-mothers-and-fathers-per-the-latest-general-social-survey
"The GSS shows that a combination of marriage and parenthood is linked to the biggest happiness dividends for women. Among married women with children between the ages of 18 and 55, 40% reported they are “very happy,” compared to 25% of married childless women, and just 22% of unmarried childless women.

Nevertheless, it is important to note that unmarried mothers are the least likely to be very happy: with just 17% of them indicating they are very happy. "

Can we please be serious. This is not an actual research, this is propaganda. I’m going to read research studies by actual scientists, not mouth breathing morons who are homeschooled and molested by their family members.

The source is the well-respected General Social Survey. The Institute for Family Studies is "pro-family" but that doesn't mean they're lying. Anyway here is another study published in the Journal of Mental Health and Clinincal Psychology. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7304555/

Their conclusion "Overall, high education, being employed, and being married were associated with better Self Reported Health and happiness." This applies for men and women. They also included interactions and the odds ratio for women who were married was 1.14. In laymen's terms " the effect of marital status [on happiness] is larger for women." Parentheses mine.

It is pretty well established in the happiness literature that married people are happier. There is little to no debate about this among people who study this topic.

There is some debate as to whether happier people are more likely to marry/stay married as opposed to marriage causing the happiness. The evidence suggests both are in play.

Sorry, but no one is buying this, hence the declining rates of marriage. You’re going to have to try harder.

Tons of studies by actual scientists with brain show that the happiest cohort are single women without kids.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Women don’t need men to survive like they did in the past. We have our own money, our own homes, and our own children. Who needs a man anymore?

Women who want a loving companion and a family for their children.

Agree, but that assumes a man who is a loving companion and good parent. A man who ticks those boxes will do well.

And attractive and smart women are mostly able to find these men. The biggest hurdle I believe is that you have to find them early. You don't have to marry or have kids early, but I do think by age 25 or so most of the good men are in serious dating relationships. Obviously there are exceptions - good men who for whatever reason didn't want to be committed earlier - but the amount of good ones still unattached shrinks drastically as the years go on.

Yes ladies, if you are only pretty enough, you can find a perfect man. Project 2025 has spoken, keep sweet and keep pretty for those men!

Or gain 100lbs and drive a Subaru.

tell me more about this subaru...

but seriously - look who men voted for. look who they admire. can you blame young women for saying no thanks?

and now comes the fun part where everyone blames the women for the men having become so undesirable. look what you've done, women!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Women don’t need men to survive like they did in the past. We have our own money, our own homes, and our own children. Who needs a man anymore?

Women who want a loving companion and a family for their children.

Agree, but that assumes a man who is a loving companion and good parent. A man who ticks those boxes will do well.

And attractive and smart women are mostly able to find these men. The biggest hurdle I believe is that you have to find them early. You don't have to marry or have kids early, but I do think by age 25 or so most of the good men are in serious dating relationships. Obviously there are exceptions - good men who for whatever reason didn't want to be committed earlier - but the amount of good ones still unattached shrinks drastically as the years go on.

Yes ladies, if you are only pretty enough, you can find a perfect man. Project 2025 has spoken, keep sweet and keep pretty for those men!

Or gain 100lbs and drive a Subaru.

I did this AND got married. To a man. Not quite 100. But I have the man, resentment about the housework, and the kid all in the Subaru!

My main thing as far as social policy is I want to support women getting married or not getting married, and having children or not, as they like. The most terrifying part of right wing America is the idea that god and/or the government are entitled to use women’s wombs.

Can you provide an example of right wing wanting to use women’s wombs? Most republicans support abortion with parameters.

sorry - in what year/universe did you make that comment? or did you just forget the /s?