American Women Are Giving Up on Marriage (Wall Street Journal)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's far worse for Asian women...which is why marriage rates and birthrates are plummeting for both.

I believe if you see a woman with a stroller in Seoul, it's more likely to have a toy dog vs. a kid.

It's been like this for some time in Japan as well. Japan is ranked 111th in the World Economic Forum's Global Gender Gap Report 2016. They never had a feminist movement, so married women are still expected to fulfill very traditional gender roles, including taking care of their husbands, kids, and in-laws. It was tradition for a wife to move into her husband's family home and care for his family. Under those circumstances, I'd rather stay single, too. My friend from college who came to the US for boarding school then US college is still single in her forties (and she's super pretty and still looks like she's in her twenties, so it's not that she doesn't attract men).

+1 If men had to do all these things, they wouldn't want to get married and have kids, either.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Men and women both are better off single and childless. Today's women are as bad as men.

[Anonymous]

Women are about to be obsolete with AI-powered sex-bots on the horizon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting because my understanding is that the sociological data shows that married parents have high levels of happiness. Having a stable family is an overall benefit to the individuals involved and society.

Certain demographic groups are more successful in forming and maintaining families including the college educated professional class, Asian Americans, and more religious people.

We talk about this issue with our teen. Alongside college and career prep, we want him to know the importance of family and the value of intentionally prioritizing a good marriage. It doesn’t just magically happen. Effort is both required and rewarded.

Nope - single women are happiest, followed by married men. I forget whether single men or married women are least happy.

We talk with our teen DD about choosing a partner who shares your values and will pull their weight.

You're incorrect. Data show married people are happier--both men and women.
From Stack, Steven, and J. Ross Eshleman. "Marital status and happiness: A 17-nation study." Journal of Marriage and the Family (1998): 527-536:
"Research on marital status and happiness has
tended to be restricted to the U.S. We extend the
analysis to a set of 17 industrialized nations with
diverse social and institutional frameworks. Con-
trolling for sociodemographic variables, we found
that married persons have a significantly higher
level of happiness than persons who are not mar-
ried."

1998?? It's a different world now.

Here's more recent data from 2022 General Social Survey: https://ifstudies.org/blog/who-is-happiest-married-mothers-and-fathers-per-the-latest-general-social-survey
"The GSS shows that a combination of marriage and parenthood is linked to the biggest happiness dividends for women. Among married women with children between the ages of 18 and 55, 40% reported they are “very happy,” compared to 25% of married childless women, and just 22% of unmarried childless women.

Nevertheless, it is important to note that unmarried mothers are the least likely to be very happy: with just 17% of them indicating they are very happy. "

Can we please be serious. This is not an actual research, this is propaganda. I’m going to read research studies by actual scientists, not mouth breathing morons who are homeschooled and molested by their family members.

The source is the well-respected General Social Survey. The Institute for Family Studies is "pro-family" but that doesn't mean they're lying. Anyway here is another study published in the Journal of Mental Health and Clinincal Psychology. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7304555/

Their conclusion "Overall, high education, being employed, and being married were associated with better Self Reported Health and happiness." This applies for men and women. They also included interactions and the odds ratio for women who were married was 1.14. In laymen's terms " the effect of marital status [on happiness] is larger for women." Parentheses mine.

It is pretty well established in the happiness literature that married people are happier. There is little to no debate about this among people who study this topic.

There is some debate as to whether happier people are more likely to marry/stay married as opposed to marriage causing the happiness. The evidence suggests both are in play.

Sorry, but no one is buying this, hence the declining rates of marriage. You’re going to have to try harder.

Tons of studies by actual scientists with brain show that the happiest cohort are single women without kids.

DP. The only study anyone has mentioned here that claims that was from Paul Dolan who dramatically misinterpreted the Time Use Survey data he was using. To his credit, he has retracted the erroneous claims, but it's hard to call him an "actual scientist with a brain" when he made so much hay out of data he didn't understand on a basic level. He also got a ton of press at first, but not so much when he had retract his claims which is, unfortunately, how it tends to go.

He stands by his overall claims about happiness, but they're really not supported by the data. You can also look at ATUS data which shows higher reported happiness among both men and women who are married versus single. The numbers are actually pretty similar, but they're definitely not highest among single women without kids; they're highest among married women with kids (mean 4.2 on a scale of 1-6) and lowest among single men without kids (4.1) (that data is here: https://x.com/graykimbrough/status/1134845684526583813 yes, it's twitter, but it's from an academic and he screenshots his sources). Men GAIN more happiness by being married than women (in that data), but all groups, on average, gain happiness from marriage and having kids.

I don't have a strong opinion either way on whether marriage makes people happier overall (mine own has made me immeasurably happier, but that's just one data point), but your statement about "tons of studies" showing that the happiest women are single women without kids is just wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women are about to be obsolete with AI-powered sex-bots on the horizon.

Great! If what men Really Really want is an AI-powered sex-bot, then have at it.

I’ll watch I’m Your Man for the fourth or fifth time and wait for the algorithms to get perfected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women are about to be obsolete with AI-powered sex-bots on the horizon.

So would men then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women are about to be obsolete with AI-powered sex-bots on the horizon.

Until one man loses his d*ck to one. Then we'll be right back here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting because my understanding is that the sociological data shows that married parents have high levels of happiness. Having a stable family is an overall benefit to the individuals involved and society.

Certain demographic groups are more successful in forming and maintaining families including the college educated professional class, Asian Americans, and more religious people.

We talk about this issue with our teen. Alongside college and career prep, we want him to know the importance of family and the value of intentionally prioritizing a good marriage. It doesn’t just magically happen. Effort is both required and rewarded.

Nope - single women are happiest, followed by married men. I forget whether single men or married women are least happy.

We talk with our teen DD about choosing a partner who shares your values and will pull their weight.

You're incorrect. Data show married people are happier--both men and women.
From Stack, Steven, and J. Ross Eshleman. "Marital status and happiness: A 17-nation study." Journal of Marriage and the Family (1998): 527-536:
"Research on marital status and happiness has
tended to be restricted to the U.S. We extend the
analysis to a set of 17 industrialized nations with
diverse social and institutional frameworks. Con-
trolling for sociodemographic variables, we found
that married persons have a significantly higher
level of happiness than persons who are not mar-
ried."

1998?? It's a different world now.

Here's more recent data from 2022 General Social Survey: https://ifstudies.org/blog/who-is-happiest-married-mothers-and-fathers-per-the-latest-general-social-survey
"The GSS shows that a combination of marriage and parenthood is linked to the biggest happiness dividends for women. Among married women with children between the ages of 18 and 55, 40% reported they are “very happy,” compared to 25% of married childless women, and just 22% of unmarried childless women.

Nevertheless, it is important to note that unmarried mothers are the least likely to be very happy: with just 17% of them indicating they are very happy. "

Can we please be serious. This is not an actual research, this is propaganda. I’m going to read research studies by actual scientists, not mouth breathing morons who are homeschooled and molested by their family members.

The source is the well-respected General Social Survey. The Institute for Family Studies is "pro-family" but that doesn't mean they're lying. Anyway here is another study published in the Journal of Mental Health and Clinincal Psychology. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7304555/

Their conclusion "Overall, high education, being employed, and being married were associated with better Self Reported Health and happiness." This applies for men and women. They also included interactions and the odds ratio for women who were married was 1.14. In laymen's terms " the effect of marital status [on happiness] is larger for women." Parentheses mine.

It is pretty well established in the happiness literature that married people are happier. There is little to no debate about this among people who study this topic.

There is some debate as to whether happier people are more likely to marry/stay married as opposed to marriage causing the happiness. The evidence suggests both are in play.

Sorry, but no one is buying this, hence the declining rates of marriage. You’re going to have to try harder.

Tons of studies by actual scientists with brain show that the happiest cohort are single women without kids.

DP. The only study anyone has mentioned here that claims that was from Paul Dolan who dramatically misinterpreted the Time Use Survey data he was using. To his credit, he has retracted the erroneous claims, but it's hard to call him an "actual scientist with a brain" when he made so much hay out of data he didn't understand on a basic level. He also got a ton of press at first, but not so much when he had retract his claims which is, unfortunately, how it tends to go.

He stands by his overall claims about happiness, but they're really not supported by the data. You can also look at ATUS data which shows higher reported happiness among both men and women who are married versus single. The numbers are actually pretty similar, but they're definitely not highest among single women without kids; they're highest among married women with kids (mean 4.2 on a scale of 1-6) and lowest among single men without kids (4.1) (that data is here: https://x.com/graykimbrough/status/1134845684526583813 yes, it's twitter, but it's from an academic and he screenshots his sources). Men GAIN more happiness by being married than women (in that data), but all groups, on average, gain happiness from marriage and having kids.

I don't have a strong opinion either way on whether marriage makes people happier overall (mine own has made me immeasurably happier, but that's just one data point), but your statement about "tons of studies" showing that the happiest women are single women without kids is just wrong.

You can continue to blather on all you want, or you can step outside and see what’s going on in the real world, which is women are turning away from marriage and the birth rate is largely plummeting, with some fluctuations, but basically continuing to decline.

But please go on continuing to cling to these studies if these very, very smart people, who don’t have an agenda at all lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting because my understanding is that the sociological data shows that married parents have high levels of happiness. Having a stable family is an overall benefit to the individuals involved and society.

Certain demographic groups are more successful in forming and maintaining families including the college educated professional class, Asian Americans, and more religious people.

We talk about this issue with our teen. Alongside college and career prep, we want him to know the importance of family and the value of intentionally prioritizing a good marriage. It doesn’t just magically happen. Effort is both required and rewarded.

Nope - single women are happiest, followed by married men. I forget whether single men or married women are least happy.

We talk with our teen DD about choosing a partner who shares your values and will pull their weight.

You're incorrect. Data show married people are happier--both men and women.
From Stack, Steven, and J. Ross Eshleman. "Marital status and happiness: A 17-nation study." Journal of Marriage and the Family (1998): 527-536:
"Research on marital status and happiness has
tended to be restricted to the U.S. We extend the
analysis to a set of 17 industrialized nations with
diverse social and institutional frameworks. Con-
trolling for sociodemographic variables, we found
that married persons have a significantly higher
level of happiness than persons who are not mar-
ried."

1998?? It's a different world now.

Here's more recent data from 2022 General Social Survey: https://ifstudies.org/blog/who-is-happiest-married-mothers-and-fathers-per-the-latest-general-social-survey
"The GSS shows that a combination of marriage and parenthood is linked to the biggest happiness dividends for women. Among married women with children between the ages of 18 and 55, 40% reported they are “very happy,” compared to 25% of married childless women, and just 22% of unmarried childless women.

Nevertheless, it is important to note that unmarried mothers are the least likely to be very happy: with just 17% of them indicating they are very happy. "

Can we please be serious. This is not an actual research, this is propaganda. I’m going to read research studies by actual scientists, not mouth breathing morons who are homeschooled and molested by their family members.

The source is the well-respected General Social Survey. The Institute for Family Studies is "pro-family" but that doesn't mean they're lying. Anyway here is another study published in the Journal of Mental Health and Clinincal Psychology. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7304555/

Their conclusion "Overall, high education, being employed, and being married were associated with better Self Reported Health and happiness." This applies for men and women. They also included interactions and the odds ratio for women who were married was 1.14. In laymen's terms " the effect of marital status [on happiness] is larger for women." Parentheses mine.

It is pretty well established in the happiness literature that married people are happier. There is little to no debate about this among people who study this topic.

There is some debate as to whether happier people are more likely to marry/stay married as opposed to marriage causing the happiness. The evidence suggests both are in play.

Sorry, but no one is buying this, hence the declining rates of marriage. You’re going to have to try harder.

Tons of studies by actual scientists with brain show that the happiest cohort are single women without kids.

DP. The only study anyone has mentioned here that claims that was from Paul Dolan who dramatically misinterpreted the Time Use Survey data he was using. To his credit, he has retracted the erroneous claims, but it's hard to call him an "actual scientist with a brain" when he made so much hay out of data he didn't understand on a basic level. He also got a ton of press at first, but not so much when he had retract his claims which is, unfortunately, how it tends to go.

He stands by his overall claims about happiness, but they're really not supported by the data. You can also look at ATUS data which shows higher reported happiness among both men and women who are married versus single. The numbers are actually pretty similar, but they're definitely not highest among single women without kids; they're highest among married women with kids (mean 4.2 on a scale of 1-6) and lowest among single men without kids (4.1) (that data is here: https://x.com/graykimbrough/status/1134845684526583813 yes, it's twitter, but it's from an academic and he screenshots his sources). Men GAIN more happiness by being married than women (in that data), but all groups, on average, gain happiness from marriage and having kids.

I don't have a strong opinion either way on whether marriage makes people happier overall (mine own has made me immeasurably happier, but that's just one data point), but your statement about "tons of studies" showing that the happiest women are single women without kids is just wrong.

You can continue to blather on all you want, or you can step outside and see what’s going on in the real world, which is women are turning away from marriage and the birth rate is largely plummeting, with some fluctuations, but basically continuing to decline.

But please go on continuing to cling to these studies if these very, very smart people, who don’t have an agenda at all lol.

I thought you had tons of studies by actual scientists? Now studies are blather?

Marriage rates are definitely declining. Happiness is also declining, especially among women. Maybe those are unrelated, but maybe they're not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women don’t need men to survive like they did in the past. We have our own money, our own homes, and our own children. Who needs a man anymore?

Women who want a loving companion and a family for their children.

Agree, but that assumes a man who is a loving companion and good parent. A man who ticks those boxes will do well.

And attractive and smart women are mostly able to find these men. The biggest hurdle I believe is that you have to find them early. You don't have to marry or have kids early, but I do think by age 25 or so most of the good men are in serious dating relationships. Obviously there are exceptions - good men who for whatever reason didn't want to be committed earlier - but the amount of good ones still unattached shrinks drastically as the years go on.

Yes ladies, if you are only pretty enough, you can find a perfect man. Project 2025 has spoken, keep sweet and keep pretty for those men!

Or gain 100lbs and drive a Subaru.

tell me more about this subaru...

but seriously - look who men voted for. look who they admire. can you blame young women for saying no thanks?

and now comes the fun part where everyone blames the women for the men having become so undesirable. look what you've done, women!

+1000 (and love my subaru)

Being married to my DH makes me happy. But I'm very lucky that we've grown in the same direction as we aged, instead of him getting redpilled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women are about to be obsolete with AI-powered sex-bots on the horizon.

Until one man loses his d*ck to one. Then we'll be right back here.

I mean, women chop them off all the time. Hasn't stopped anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women are about to be obsolete with AI-powered sex-bots on the horizon.

Until one man loses his d*ck to one. Then we'll be right back here.

Haha. No. History shows us that men will never stop putting their dicks in danger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting because my understanding is that the sociological data shows that married parents have high levels of happiness. Having a stable family is an overall benefit to the individuals involved and society.

Certain demographic groups are more successful in forming and maintaining families including the college educated professional class, Asian Americans, and more religious people.

We talk about this issue with our teen. Alongside college and career prep, we want him to know the importance of family and the value of intentionally prioritizing a good marriage. It doesn’t just magically happen. Effort is both required and rewarded.

Nope - single women are happiest, followed by married men. I forget whether single men or married women are least happy.

We talk with our teen DD about choosing a partner who shares your values and will pull their weight.

You're incorrect. Data show married people are happier--both men and women.
From Stack, Steven, and J. Ross Eshleman. "Marital status and happiness: A 17-nation study." Journal of Marriage and the Family (1998): 527-536:
"Research on marital status and happiness has
tended to be restricted to the U.S. We extend the
analysis to a set of 17 industrialized nations with
diverse social and institutional frameworks. Con-
trolling for sociodemographic variables, we found
that married persons have a significantly higher
level of happiness than persons who are not mar-
ried."

1998?? It's a different world now.

Here's more recent data from 2022 General Social Survey: https://ifstudies.org/blog/who-is-happiest-married-mothers-and-fathers-per-the-latest-general-social-survey
"The GSS shows that a combination of marriage and parenthood is linked to the biggest happiness dividends for women. Among married women with children between the ages of 18 and 55, 40% reported they are “very happy,” compared to 25% of married childless women, and just 22% of unmarried childless women.

Nevertheless, it is important to note that unmarried mothers are the least likely to be very happy: with just 17% of them indicating they are very happy. "

Can we please be serious. This is not an actual research, this is propaganda. I’m going to read research studies by actual scientists, not mouth breathing morons who are homeschooled and molested by their family members.

The source is the well-respected General Social Survey. The Institute for Family Studies is "pro-family" but that doesn't mean they're lying. Anyway here is another study published in the Journal of Mental Health and Clinincal Psychology. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7304555/

Their conclusion "Overall, high education, being employed, and being married were associated with better Self Reported Health and happiness." This applies for men and women. They also included interactions and the odds ratio for women who were married was 1.14. In laymen's terms " the effect of marital status [on happiness] is larger for women." Parentheses mine.

It is pretty well established in the happiness literature that married people are happier. There is little to no debate about this among people who study this topic.

There is some debate as to whether happier people are more likely to marry/stay married as opposed to marriage causing the happiness. The evidence suggests both are in play.

Sorry, but no one is buying this, hence the declining rates of marriage. You’re going to have to try harder.

Tons of studies by actual scientists with brain show that the happiest cohort are single women without kids.

DP. The only study anyone has mentioned here that claims that was from Paul Dolan who dramatically misinterpreted the Time Use Survey data he was using. To his credit, he has retracted the erroneous claims, but it's hard to call him an "actual scientist with a brain" when he made so much hay out of data he didn't understand on a basic level. He also got a ton of press at first, but not so much when he had retract his claims which is, unfortunately, how it tends to go.

He stands by his overall claims about happiness, but they're really not supported by the data. You can also look at ATUS data which shows higher reported happiness among both men and women who are married versus single. The numbers are actually pretty similar, but they're definitely not highest among single women without kids; they're highest among married women with kids (mean 4.2 on a scale of 1-6) and lowest among single men without kids (4.1) (that data is here: https://x.com/graykimbrough/status/1134845684526583813 yes, it's twitter, but it's from an academic and he screenshots his sources). Men GAIN more happiness by being married than women (in that data), but all groups, on average, gain happiness from marriage and having kids.

I don't have a strong opinion either way on whether marriage makes people happier overall (mine own has made me immeasurably happier, but that's just one data point), but your statement about "tons of studies" showing that the happiest women are single women without kids is just wrong.

You can continue to blather on all you want, or you can step outside and see what’s going on in the real world, which is women are turning away from marriage and the birth rate is largely plummeting, with some fluctuations, but basically continuing to decline.

But please go on continuing to cling to these studies if these very, very smart people, who don’t have an agenda at all lol.

I thought you had tons of studies by actual scientists? Now studies are blather?

Marriage rates are definitely declining. Happiness is also declining, especially among women. Maybe those are unrelated, but maybe they're not.

Largely men have benefited from marriage. The current political landscape of making birth control, abortion and divorce harder is reflective of that. Women needed a husband or father to have a bank account or lines of credit. There are some states that treat marital rape as less an offense than “rape’.

I have no patience for really reductive arguments that doesn’t recognize the burdens women have faced in marriage and Joe men have benefited.

We are now seeing women pushing back - divorcing or opting out of marriages that fine serve them.

I’m a happily married mom so not anti marriage but I’m not interested in a “pro family “ group that exists become are pushing back and they have an agenda and that agenda is not women’s happiness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting because my understanding is that the sociological data shows that married parents have high levels of happiness. Having a stable family is an overall benefit to the individuals involved and society.

Certain demographic groups are more successful in forming and maintaining families including the college educated professional class, Asian Americans, and more religious people.

We talk about this issue with our teen. Alongside college and career prep, we want him to know the importance of family and the value of intentionally prioritizing a good marriage. It doesn’t just magically happen. Effort is both required and rewarded.

Nope - single women are happiest, followed by married men. I forget whether single men or married women are least happy.

We talk with our teen DD about choosing a partner who shares your values and will pull their weight.

You're incorrect. Data show married people are happier--both men and women.
From Stack, Steven, and J. Ross Eshleman. "Marital status and happiness: A 17-nation study." Journal of Marriage and the Family (1998): 527-536:
"Research on marital status and happiness has
tended to be restricted to the U.S. We extend the
analysis to a set of 17 industrialized nations with
diverse social and institutional frameworks. Con-
trolling for sociodemographic variables, we found
that married persons have a significantly higher
level of happiness than persons who are not mar-
ried."

1998?? It's a different world now.

Here's more recent data from 2022 General Social Survey: https://ifstudies.org/blog/who-is-happiest-married-mothers-and-fathers-per-the-latest-general-social-survey
"The GSS shows that a combination of marriage and parenthood is linked to the biggest happiness dividends for women. Among married women with children between the ages of 18 and 55, 40% reported they are “very happy,” compared to 25% of married childless women, and just 22% of unmarried childless women.

Nevertheless, it is important to note that unmarried mothers are the least likely to be very happy: with just 17% of them indicating they are very happy. "

Can we please be serious. This is not an actual research, this is propaganda. I’m going to read research studies by actual scientists, not mouth breathing morons who are homeschooled and molested by their family members.

The source is the well-respected General Social Survey. The Institute for Family Studies is "pro-family" but that doesn't mean they're lying. Anyway here is another study published in the Journal of Mental Health and Clinincal Psychology. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7304555/

Their conclusion "Overall, high education, being employed, and being married were associated with better Self Reported Health and happiness." This applies for men and women. They also included interactions and the odds ratio for women who were married was 1.14. In laymen's terms " the effect of marital status [on happiness] is larger for women." Parentheses mine.

It is pretty well established in the happiness literature that married people are happier. There is little to no debate about this among people who study this topic.

There is some debate as to whether happier people are more likely to marry/stay married as opposed to marriage causing the happiness. The evidence suggests both are in play.

Sorry, but no one is buying this, hence the declining rates of marriage. You’re going to have to try harder.

Tons of studies by actual scientists with brain show that the happiest cohort are single women without kids.

DP. The only study anyone has mentioned here that claims that was from Paul Dolan who dramatically misinterpreted the Time Use Survey data he was using. To his credit, he has retracted the erroneous claims, but it's hard to call him an "actual scientist with a brain" when he made so much hay out of data he didn't understand on a basic level. He also got a ton of press at first, but not so much when he had retract his claims which is, unfortunately, how it tends to go.

He stands by his overall claims about happiness, but they're really not supported by the data. You can also look at ATUS data which shows higher reported happiness among both men and women who are married versus single. The numbers are actually pretty similar, but they're definitely not highest among single women without kids; they're highest among married women with kids (mean 4.2 on a scale of 1-6) and lowest among single men without kids (4.1) (that data is here: https://x.com/graykimbrough/status/1134845684526583813 yes, it's twitter, but it's from an academic and he screenshots his sources). Men GAIN more happiness by being married than women (in that data), but all groups, on average, gain happiness from marriage and having kids.

I don't have a strong opinion either way on whether marriage makes people happier overall (mine own has made me immeasurably happier, but that's just one data point), but your statement about "tons of studies" showing that the happiest women are single women without kids is just wrong.

You can continue to blather on all you want, or you can step outside and see what’s going on in the real world, which is women are turning away from marriage and the birth rate is largely plummeting, with some fluctuations, but basically continuing to decline.

But please go on continuing to cling to these studies if these very, very smart people, who don’t have an agenda at all lol.

I thought you had tons of studies by actual scientists? Now studies are blather?

Marriage rates are definitely declining. Happiness is also declining, especially among women. Maybe those are unrelated, but maybe they're not.

Largely men have benefited from marriage. The current political landscape of making birth control, abortion and divorce harder is reflective of that. Women needed a husband or father to have a bank account or lines of credit. There are some states that treat marital rape as less an offense than “rape’.

I have no patience for really reductive arguments that doesn’t recognize the burdens women have faced in marriage and Joe men have benefited.

We are now seeing women pushing back - divorcing or opting out of marriages that fine serve them.

I’m a happily married mom so not anti marriage but I’m not interested in a “pro family “ group that exists become are pushing back and they have an agenda and that agenda is not women’s happiness.

Should say as late as 1974 women could not get accounts or credit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women don’t need men to survive like they did in the past. We have our own money, our own homes, and our own children. Who needs a man anymore?

you do realize that many of these children you’re talking about will grow up to be men one day? Way to lay the groundwork for them having zero self-esteem and hating women right back.

Women don’t hate men, we just want to be treated as human beings. The bar for men is on the ground and many still trip over it.