I don’t get it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New to this convo.

Honestly it’s really only to help get your kids to Wall Street, private equity, hedge funds or worst case biglaw or even worse case, MBB consulting.

The path to those senior level careers is helped enormously by Ivy connections. Ask me how I know.

If you are already connected, the school pedigree matters less or can help a midtier (3.3) Ivy applicant get the creme de La creme job beating out the 4.0 kid from Wisco.

Yes, exactly, you must beat other people in order to become rich at soulsucking jobs. That is exactly why people want to get their kids into elite universities. For fine opportunities like this...

McKinsey’s Costly Opioid Advice Puts Consultants on Notice
A Justice Department enforcement action against McKinsey makes it the first consulting firm held criminally responsible for work on behalf of clients
https://www.wsj.com/articles/mckinseys-costly-opioid-advice-puts-consultants-on-notice-ac57e3c3

McKinsey last week agreed to pay $650 million to the federal government to settle criminal claims for aiding and abetting in the misbranding of Purdue Pharma’s OxyContin opioid painkiller, as well as the deletion of Purdue-related documents by a former McKinsey partner. The firm’s settlement also covers civil claims for having misled federal healthcare programs and the Food and Drug Administration. That comes on top of nearly $1 billion that McKinsey previously agreed to pay, without admitting wrongdoing, to settle civil litigation brought by states, local governments, and other plaintiffs stemming from past work for Purdue and other opioid manufacturers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see why this is so mystifying to all of you. Since the 1980s (thanks, Reagan), the middle class has been hollowed out. The gap between the haves and the have nots has expanded greatly. The differences between the two groups are extreme; it’s not just a slight difference, it’s a huge gulf. Parents who are paying attention see this. They want their kids to have healthcare, to live in safe neighborhoods, to be able to own a home, and to have whatever economic security is possible in a culture where employees are entirely disposable and companies care only about creating shareholder value. They don’t want their kids to become the have nots, so this anxiety drives them to work to ensure that their kids have every advantage, whether real or perceived.

Sure, you can be very successful wherever you go to school, and going to a top school guarantees nothing. But setting aside individual stories, on the whole, going to a top school confers an advantage.

Because all of the things you mentioned are not just possible, but highly likely at pretty much any school in the top 100 and even some further down the list. This kind of comment is the exact type of thing OP is talking about. You don’t need to go to a T20 or Ivy+ or whatever to “have healthcare, to live in safe neighborhoods, to be able to own a home, and to have whatever economic security is possible in a culture where employees are entirely disposable and companies care only about creating shareholder value.”

You are missing the point entirely. What I’m saying is that parents are jockeying for every advantage to ensure that their kids will lane in the haves and not the have nots. A top school statistically confers an advantage, even if slight.

And yes, we should be rioting, but instead we elect Trump, who will just continue to ensure that the rich get richer and everyone else is screwed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's like people are having two different conversations.

If you are comfortably middle class, have a stable job, health insurance, and a home in NoVa in a half way decent school district, then you can expect your child can attain the same by attending pretty much any state school, or really, any accredited school that anyone anywhere has heard of.

But high net worth individuals (let's say making over 3 mil a year) who expect their children to do the same or better will need to fight tooth and nail to get them into a select group of schools, where they can appropriately hob nob with the other super rich and obtain the needed pedigree.

Totally different worlds.

This nails it. And the two worlds don’t speak the same language. One side cannot understand footing 100k per year for a T15 when UMD “will do.” And the other side can’t comprehend how one would think UMD is at all acceptable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid at UMD majoring in CS. DC is an academic superstar, always has been since they were 3 (gifted program, magnet programs, etc). But, they got shut out of the T15, though UMD is T20 for CS.

The reason why parents want their kids to go to more prestigious schools is because of internship/employment recruiting. While I agree that where you went to school won't matter after working for 5 years, where you go matters to open that first door. The top paying employers recruit mostly from certain schools. It's harder to get recruited to those companies from the lesser tier schools.

I went to a no name u here in the states, and while I did eventually work my way up to a very well known prestigious company, it took me a lot longer to get there than my colleagues at work who went to a big name u.

But, I agree, as my experience has shown me, a really smart, motivated person can do well in life no matter where they go. It will just take them longer.

Parents just want their kids to get there faster if they can.

DC has an internship this summer with a well known company. They had to really hustle last year to get to that stepping stone, but it was their smarts and personality that got them there.

Let's be honest.. if you have an applicant from MIT and one from UMD, you would look at the MIT applicant first.

Maybe, but you for dang sure are gonna be equally interested in/excited to see what the UMCP one offers.

[Anonymous]

Yes, it’s just exhausting, this competition. For some reason here any less than T20 schools is a fake smile, and an oh how wonderful, Alabama you say. Well isn’t that wonderful for both of us, my twins Mason and Sofia got into Harvard pre-med, and well Sofia will be rowing for Cornell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m a foreigner and newcomer to DC - we moved here for my husband’s work ~ 2 years ago from Western Europe. We have two boys and the oldest just started high school here, so I’ve been trying to learn about US college admissions in case my kids express interest in attending school here.

This is what I have trouble understanding:
- if now desirable employers recruit from a large range of schools rather than only from a few elite schools
- if you can have access to quality peers beyond the T20 schools since there are way more qualified kids than spots at these schools
- if you can get a quality education at pretty much any top 100 school, and
- if life outcomes are truly dependent on the kid rather than the school

Then why oh why are kids (and parents) putting themselves through so much stress and anxiety to get into HYPSM? This is what I don’t get.

Is it purely because Harvard and Yale are more prestigious than Penn State and Miami? So it’s just about prestige and bragging rights?

-The desirable employers do not recruit equally from second tier schools as they do from top tier schools, they just don't.
-The difference in peer group starts to drop off around T15 then again at around T35 and once you are outside the top 75 or so, the population of mediocre students is large enough that the peer group effect is fairly diluted.
-The quality of education is largely dependent on your peer group. You are going much faster and much deeper when you have a better peer group.
-Life outcomes are not indifferent to college pedigree. A Harvard grad has easier access to some opportunities than a Northeastern grad.

The difference between Emory and Penn State may not be life altering but the difference between HYPSM (particularly HMS) and Penn State is.
Your peer group in college is different, the lifetime reputational benefits are different, your opportunities straight out of college are different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a foreigner and newcomer to DC - we moved here for my husband’s work ~ 2 years ago from Western Europe. We have two boys and the oldest just started high school here, so I’ve been trying to learn about US college admissions in case my kids express interest in attending school here.

This is what I have trouble understanding:
- if now desirable employers recruit from a large range of schools rather than only from a few elite schools
- if you can have access to quality peers beyond the T20 schools since there are way more qualified kids than spots at these schools
- if you can get a quality education at pretty much any top 100 school, and
- if life outcomes are truly dependent on the kid rather than the school

Then why oh why are kids (and parents) putting themselves through so much stress and anxiety to get into HYPSM? This is what I don’t get.

Is it purely because Harvard and Yale are more prestigious than Penn State and Miami? So it’s just about prestige and bragging rights?

-The desirable employers do not recruit equally from second tier schools as they do from top tier schools, they just don't.
-The difference in peer group starts to drop off around T15 then again at around T35 and once you are outside the top 75 or so, the population of mediocre students is large enough that the peer group effect is fairly diluted.
-The quality of education is largely dependent on your peer group. You are going much faster and much deeper when you have a better peer group.
-Life outcomes are not indifferent to college pedigree. A Harvard grad has easier access to some opportunities than a Northeastern grad.

The difference between Emory and Penn State may not be life altering but the difference between HYPSM (particularly HMS) and Penn State is.
Your peer group in college is different, the lifetime reputational benefits are different, your opportunities straight out of college are different.

None of this is true. And I say this as someone who went to aT10 college and T5 law school. Further the advantage of going to a T15 school, to the extent it exists, has been weakened as current admissions policies break down the strength of alumni networks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a foreigner and newcomer to DC - we moved here for my husband’s work ~ 2 years ago from Western Europe. We have two boys and the oldest just started high school here, so I’ve been trying to learn about US college admissions in case my kids express interest in attending school here.

This is what I have trouble understanding:
- if now desirable employers recruit from a large range of schools rather than only from a few elite schools
- if you can have access to quality peers beyond the T20 schools since there are way more qualified kids than spots at these schools
- if you can get a quality education at pretty much any top 100 school, and
- if life outcomes are truly dependent on the kid rather than the school

Then why oh why are kids (and parents) putting themselves through so much stress and anxiety to get into HYPSM? This is what I don’t get.

Is it purely because Harvard and Yale are more prestigious than Penn State and Miami? So it’s just about prestige and bragging rights?

-The desirable employers do not recruit equally from second tier schools as they do from top tier schools, they just don't.
-The difference in peer group starts to drop off around T15 then again at around T35 and once you are outside the top 75 or so, the population of mediocre students is large enough that the peer group effect is fairly diluted.
-The quality of education is largely dependent on your peer group. You are going much faster and much deeper when you have a better peer group.
-Life outcomes are not indifferent to college pedigree. A Harvard grad has easier access to some opportunities than a Northeastern grad.

The difference between Emory and Penn State may not be life altering but the difference between HYPSM (particularly HMS) and Penn State is.
Your peer group in college is different, the lifetime reputational benefits are different, your opportunities straight out of college are different.

The bolded - I ask how?! I work in finance and every cohort has kids from HYPSM AND state schools, such as Penn State, etc. They ALL ended up in the SAME place! HYPSM made NO difference!

[Anonymous]

You've expressed it quite well.

I would add that, within a certain demographic (perhaps one over-represented on DCUM), there are a lot of parents who attended these "top" schools decades ago when it was not quite as difficult to get admitted if you were a good student with decent test scores and typical ECs. They want their DCs to have choices and experiences similar to what they had, and that can make it harder to see the forest for the trees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a foreigner and newcomer to DC - we moved here for my husband’s work ~ 2 years ago from Western Europe. We have two boys and the oldest just started high school here, so I’ve been trying to learn about US college admissions in case my kids express interest in attending school here.

This is what I have trouble understanding:
- if now desirable employers recruit from a large range of schools rather than only from a few elite schools
- if you can have access to quality peers beyond the T20 schools since there are way more qualified kids than spots at these schools
- if you can get a quality education at pretty much any top 100 school, and
- if life outcomes are truly dependent on the kid rather than the school

Then why oh why are kids (and parents) putting themselves through so much stress and anxiety to get into HYPSM? This is what I don’t get.

Is it purely because Harvard and Yale are more prestigious than Penn State and Miami? So it’s just about prestige and bragging rights?

-The desirable employers do not recruit equally from second tier schools as they do from top tier schools, they just don't.
-The difference in peer group starts to drop off around T15 then again at around T35 and once you are outside the top 75 or so, the population of mediocre students is large enough that the peer group effect is fairly diluted.
-The quality of education is largely dependent on your peer group. You are going much faster and much deeper when you have a better peer group.
-Life outcomes are not indifferent to college pedigree. A Harvard grad has easier access to some opportunities than a Northeastern grad.

The difference between Emory and Penn State may not be life altering but the difference between HYPSM (particularly HMS) and Penn State is.
Your peer group in college is different, the lifetime reputational benefits are different, your opportunities straight out of college are different.

None of this is true. And I say this as someone who went to aT10 college and T5 law school. Further the advantage of going to a T15 school, to the extent it exists, has been weakened as current admissions policies break down the strength of alumni networks.

This is a really good point. Alums get pissed when their kids don’t get into their alma mater. It creates a lot of ill will and definitely diminishes the strength of the alumni network.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a foreigner and newcomer to DC - we moved here for my husband’s work ~ 2 years ago from Western Europe. We have two boys and the oldest just started high school here, so I’ve been trying to learn about US college admissions in case my kids express interest in attending school here.

This is what I have trouble understanding:
- if now desirable employers recruit from a large range of schools rather than only from a few elite schools
- if you can have access to quality peers beyond the T20 schools since there are way more qualified kids than spots at these schools
- if you can get a quality education at pretty much any top 100 school, and
- if life outcomes are truly dependent on the kid rather than the school

Then why oh why are kids (and parents) putting themselves through so much stress and anxiety to get into HYPSM? This is what I don’t get.

Is it purely because Harvard and Yale are more prestigious than Penn State and Miami? So it’s just about prestige and bragging rights?

-The desirable employers do not recruit equally from second tier schools as they do from top tier schools, they just don't.
-The difference in peer group starts to drop off around T15 then again at around T35 and once you are outside the top 75 or so, the population of mediocre students is large enough that the peer group effect is fairly diluted.
-The quality of education is largely dependent on your peer group. You are going much faster and much deeper when you have a better peer group.
-Life outcomes are not indifferent to college pedigree. A Harvard grad has easier access to some opportunities than a Northeastern grad.

The difference between Emory and Penn State may not be life altering but the difference between HYPSM (particularly HMS) and Penn State is.
Your peer group in college is different, the lifetime reputational benefits are different, your opportunities straight out of college are different.

The bolded - I ask how?! I work in finance and every cohort has kids from HYPSM AND state schools, such as Penn State, etc. They ALL ended up in the SAME place! HYPSM made NO difference!

Which place is that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a foreigner and newcomer to DC - we moved here for my husband’s work ~ 2 years ago from Western Europe. We have two boys and the oldest just started high school here, so I’ve been trying to learn about US college admissions in case my kids express interest in attending school here.

This is what I have trouble understanding:
- if now desirable employers recruit from a large range of schools rather than only from a few elite schools
- if you can have access to quality peers beyond the T20 schools since there are way more qualified kids than spots at these schools
- if you can get a quality education at pretty much any top 100 school, and
- if life outcomes are truly dependent on the kid rather than the school

Then why oh why are kids (and parents) putting themselves through so much stress and anxiety to get into HYPSM? This is what I don’t get.

Is it purely because Harvard and Yale are more prestigious than Penn State and Miami? So it’s just about prestige and bragging rights?

It depends on what you mean by desirable

Deloitte recruits widely. McKinsey recruits from a select group.

Capital One recruits widely. Morgan Stanley recruits from a select group.

If you want your kid to be solidly employed at a first job after graduation that is fine go anywhere for college. If your kid wants the jobs the top of the pecking order though they need to go to a target school. Aka an elite one.

A relative interned at Capital One last summer in a finance group…said 70% were Ivy League kids.

Relative was part of the 30% that happened to have a frat brother alum working at Capital One that hooked him up.

Take away was not “I didn’t need an Ivy”, but rather how much easier it was for Ivy kids compared to him and the other 30%.

I'm the first PP with a kid at UMD, and yes, this is true. It's just easier, opens the door faster. It doesn't mean that a smart kid from UMD won't there; it will just take them longer. Like I said, my kid is super smart. They can easily hold their own academically compared to students from MIT. DC actually got an interview at MIT; that's how high their stats were. Non minority. Unfortunately, DC decided to major in CS, and that's a tough T10 nut to crack.

So either they make the grade now or try to make the grade later but the striving has to happen.

All you are saying is that not making the grade now isn't the end of the story, you get another chance later.

But when 70% of the opportunities are going to 0.6% of the students and other 98% are sharing the other 30% of the opportunities, why is it such a mystery that people want to be part of that 0.6%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People chase after anything perceived as the best or prestige VIP. It’s why we have idiots driving recalled Cybertrucks

This.

It’s the insecure/brand-chasing parents. They want to brag and keep up with the Joneses.

Agree that I’d give a closer look to the resume of a state school grad with excellent internships over a top name school kid.

-An HYP grad

You know who gets all the excellent internships?
Go on, guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a foreigner and newcomer to DC - we moved here for my husband’s work ~ 2 years ago from Western Europe. We have two boys and the oldest just started high school here, so I’ve been trying to learn about US college admissions in case my kids express interest in attending school here.

This is what I have trouble understanding:
- if now desirable employers recruit from a large range of schools rather than only from a few elite schools
- if you can have access to quality peers beyond the T20 schools since there are way more qualified kids than spots at these schools
- if you can get a quality education at pretty much any top 100 school, and
- if life outcomes are truly dependent on the kid rather than the school

Then why oh why are kids (and parents) putting themselves through so much stress and anxiety to get into HYPSM? This is what I don’t get.

Is it purely because Harvard and Yale are more prestigious than Penn State and Miami? So it’s just about prestige and bragging rights?

It depends on what you mean by desirable

Deloitte recruits widely. McKinsey recruits from a select group.

Capital One recruits widely. Morgan Stanley recruits from a select group.

If you want your kid to be solidly employed at a first job after graduation that is fine go anywhere for college. If your kid wants the jobs the top of the pecking order though they need to go to a target school. Aka an elite one.

A relative interned at Capital One last summer in a finance group…said 70% were Ivy League kids.

Relative was part of the 30% that happened to have a frat brother alum working at Capital One that hooked him up.

Take away was not “I didn’t need an Ivy”, but rather how much easier it was for Ivy kids compared to him and the other 30%.

I'm the first PP with a kid at UMD, and yes, this is true. It's just easier, opens the door faster. It doesn't mean that a smart kid from UMD won't there; it will just take them longer. Like I said, my kid is super smart. They can easily hold their own academically compared to students from MIT. DC actually got an interview at MIT; that's how high their stats were. Non minority. Unfortunately, DC decided to major in CS, and that's a tough T10 nut to crack.

So either they make the grade now or try to make the grade later but the striving has to happen.

All you are saying is that not making the grade now isn't the end of the story, you get another chance later.

But when 70% of the opportunities are going to 0.6% of the students and other 98% are sharing the other 30% of the opportunities, why is it such a mystery that people want to be part of that 0.6%.

+1

Exactly this!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a drop in dignity and respect given once your kid goes to a uni ranked beyond around #70 that I have witnessed. People don't say anything, of course, but behind others backs they judge. For LACs it's a lot less clear cut, I think, since many people don't know LACs as well.

That says a lot about you and the people you hang out with.

It's something I've witnessed in many circles with many different types of people.

Your audiences may not be as diverse as you think.

I think if you are in a circle of high achieving adults, everyone expects the kids to go to competitive schools.
But I don't think people really give a crap where other people's kids actually go.
My relationship with acquaintances doesn't change even a tiny bit because one has a kid at CalTech and the other has a kid at Radford.
And it certainly doesn't change if they are actually friends.
If I actually know the kid then the school probably isn't a huge surprise.