Angie Harmon's dog shot and killed by Instacart shopper

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate untrained dogs. But shooting the animal is pretty extreme. Carrying pepper spray or a baton would seem to be a better option.

But yes, if you have an untrained dog that will jump happily or get aggressive with strangers, don't let it run around loose when you are expecting a delivery! Also, train your dogs to have better manners and know how to heel and get called off.

Please, enter a property with pit bulls present and let us know how baton and pepper spray work out for you.

Pit bulls were bred for thousands of doggy generations to be nearly impervious to pain - they will hang on to the death in a fight against a bull, a person, another dog, etc. Pepper spray is very likely to make them angrier and more lethal, but not very likely to make them whine and run away.

I used to live in Montana and engaged in back country hiking. Everyone with any common sense knew that carrying bear spray was only any good if you carried two cans, and a gun to boot. The bear (pepper) spray might make a grizzly back off initially, but they are very likely to come back more enraged and ready to kill.

Bullets are far more efficient than capsaicin spray or sticks.

The dog was not a pit bull. It looked like a small hound dog.

That doesn't matter. Dogs bite - ALL dogs are capable of biting. 4.5 MILLION Americans are bitten by dogs every single year. Pit bulls are responsible for more lethal attacks, but all breeds are represented in the dog bite statistics. These statistics are readily available many places online, go google it. GSDs are in the top 5 or 10 of lethal attacks and are a notoriously aggressive (POLICE DOGS, anyone?) breed which are quite often poorly trained in the hands of regular Joe owners.

Out of the 4.5 million people who are bitten by dogs every year, many of them develop ptsd and lifelong fear of dogs. They are not going to do a doggy dna test on the dog charging at them before deciding to be fearful for their well being. A dog that looks like a shepherd is going to scare a lot of people when it charges at them. I used to own a very sweet shepherd mix that I could clearly see some people were fearful of, because she was a shepherd and black to boot (black dogs are euthanized at 4x the rate of other dogs at animal shelters). I now have a freckle faced border collie mix that people beg me to pet when we are out on a walk.

People have fears of dogs for legitimate reasons. The eggshell-plaintiff doctrine protects the rights of a plaintiff whose pre-existing fragility makes them particularly susceptible to injury. The tort-feasor takes the injured plaintiff as she is found.

Sure, but also if you are so scared of dogs that a sweet shepherd bounding at you makes you want to shoot, being an instacart driver or post office worker or in-home technician etc isn’t the job for you.

You are thick. A stranger has no way to know that the dog is 'sweet,' and I've lost count of the lethal and nonlethal dog attacks I've read about where the clueless negligent owners blathered about how 'sweet' and loving their dog was before it mauled or killed a family member, neighbor, or stranger.

The only party at fault here is the dog's owner, PERIOD. Legally and morally she is at fault for the death of her dog.

Postal workers and delivery drivers are bitten, mauled and even killed by dogs every year. They are not the problem - the dog owners are the problem, PERIOD.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/amazon-delivery-driver-found-dead-apparent-dog-attack-rcna53834

https://about.usps.com/newsroom/national-releases/2023/0601-usps-releases-dog-bite-national-rankings.htm

The fact remains that postal workers and delivery drivers interact with dogs ALL THE TIME. If you are terrified of dogs, that isn’t the job for you. You can quote scary news articles all you want but the point stands.

No they aren’t rolling around, playing fetch with doggy or even allowed to pet or motion to the dog. They are doing their drop offs then heading to the next location per job. They aren’t interacting with dog . Half the problem is Dog owners and dogs think everyone should interact or engage with the dog . They are doing a job to drop off the mail or package and then move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate untrained dogs. But shooting the animal is pretty extreme. Carrying pepper spray or a baton would seem to be a better option.

But yes, if you have an untrained dog that will jump happily or get aggressive with strangers, don't let it run around loose when you are expecting a delivery! Also, train your dogs to have better manners and know how to heel and get called off.

Please, enter a property with pit bulls present and let us know how baton and pepper spray work out for you.

Pit bulls were bred for thousands of doggy generations to be nearly impervious to pain - they will hang on to the death in a fight against a bull, a person, another dog, etc. Pepper spray is very likely to make them angrier and more lethal, but not very likely to make them whine and run away.

I used to live in Montana and engaged in back country hiking. Everyone with any common sense knew that carrying bear spray was only any good if you carried two cans, and a gun to boot. The bear (pepper) spray might make a grizzly back off initially, but they are very likely to come back more enraged and ready to kill.

Bullets are far more efficient than capsaicin spray or sticks.

The dog was not a pit bull. It looked like a small hound dog.

That doesn't matter. Dogs bite - ALL dogs are capable of biting. 4.5 MILLION Americans are bitten by dogs every single year. Pit bulls are responsible for more lethal attacks, but all breeds are represented in the dog bite statistics. These statistics are readily available many places online, go google it. GSDs are in the top 5 or 10 of lethal attacks and are a notoriously aggressive (POLICE DOGS, anyone?) breed which are quite often poorly trained in the hands of regular Joe owners.

Out of the 4.5 million people who are bitten by dogs every year, many of them develop ptsd and lifelong fear of dogs. They are not going to do a doggy dna test on the dog charging at them before deciding to be fearful for their well being. A dog that looks like a shepherd is going to scare a lot of people when it charges at them. I used to own a very sweet shepherd mix that I could clearly see some people were fearful of, because she was a shepherd and black to boot (black dogs are euthanized at 4x the rate of other dogs at animal shelters). I now have a freckle faced border collie mix that people beg me to pet when we are out on a walk.

People have fears of dogs for legitimate reasons. The eggshell-plaintiff doctrine protects the rights of a plaintiff whose pre-existing fragility makes them particularly susceptible to injury. The tort-feasor takes the injured plaintiff as she is found.

Sure, but also if you are so scared of dogs that a sweet shepherd bounding at you makes you want to shoot, being an instacart driver or post office worker or in-home technician etc isn’t the job for you.

You are thick. A stranger has no way to know that the dog is 'sweet,' and I've lost count of the lethal and nonlethal dog attacks I've read about where the clueless negligent owners blathered about how 'sweet' and loving their dog was before it mauled or killed a family member, neighbor, or stranger.

The only party at fault here is the dog's owner, PERIOD. Legally and morally she is at fault for the death of her dog.

Postal workers and delivery drivers are bitten, mauled and even killed by dogs every year. They are not the problem - the dog owners are the problem, PERIOD.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/amazon-delivery-driver-found-dead-apparent-dog-attack-rcna53834

https://about.usps.com/newsroom/national-releases/2023/0601-usps-releases-dog-bite-national-rankings.htm

The fact remains that postal workers and delivery drivers interact with dogs ALL THE TIME. If you are terrified of dogs, that isn’t the job for you. You can quote scary news articles all you want but the point stands.

No they aren’t rolling around, playing fetch with doggy or even allowed to pet or motion to the dog. They are doing their drop offs then heading to the next location per job. They aren’t interacting with dog . Half the problem is Dog owners and dogs think everyone should interact or engage with the dog . They are doing a job to drop off the mail or package and then move on.

The fact that they are statistically more likely to be bitten by dogs - a fraction of the total interactions with dogs, mind you - disputes your claims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend of mine has a hound mix on an invisible fence. A new Amazon guy came up and the dog was in its yard and barked at him. Didn’t attack, just barked . Amazon driver pulled a knife. Did not stab dog but made threatening gestures. It’s on camera.
Autistic teen came out to try and help but had autism so wasn’t sure helpful.
Amazon driver was fired because he’s not allowed to carry a knife and use it in this manner. This was about 2 months ago in MD.

That's awful. I hope the driver was able to get work.

People who leave dogs in their yard are so awfully irresponsible and selfish.

Invisible fences are awful for people passing by who don’t know the dogs are restrained, and for the dogs themselves, who are at risk of other dogs and animals, etc. I had a neighbor’s dog with an invisible fence who got harassed by a coyote and the neighbor was indoors and had no idea what was going on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate untrained dogs. But shooting the animal is pretty extreme. Carrying pepper spray or a baton would seem to be a better option.

But yes, if you have an untrained dog that will jump happily or get aggressive with strangers, don't let it run around loose when you are expecting a delivery! Also, train your dogs to have better manners and know how to heel and get called off.

Please, enter a property with pit bulls present and let us know how baton and pepper spray work out for you.

Pit bulls were bred for thousands of doggy generations to be nearly impervious to pain - they will hang on to the death in a fight against a bull, a person, another dog, etc. Pepper spray is very likely to make them angrier and more lethal, but not very likely to make them whine and run away.

I used to live in Montana and engaged in back country hiking. Everyone with any common sense knew that carrying bear spray was only any good if you carried two cans, and a gun to boot. The bear (pepper) spray might make a grizzly back off initially, but they are very likely to come back more enraged and ready to kill.

Bullets are far more efficient than capsaicin spray or sticks.

The dog was not a pit bull. It looked like a small hound dog.

That doesn't matter. Dogs bite - ALL dogs are capable of biting. 4.5 MILLION Americans are bitten by dogs every single year. Pit bulls are responsible for more lethal attacks, but all breeds are represented in the dog bite statistics. These statistics are readily available many places online, go google it. GSDs are in the top 5 or 10 of lethal attacks and are a notoriously aggressive (POLICE DOGS, anyone?) breed which are quite often poorly trained in the hands of regular Joe owners.

Out of the 4.5 million people who are bitten by dogs every year, many of them develop ptsd and lifelong fear of dogs. They are not going to do a doggy dna test on the dog charging at them before deciding to be fearful for their well being. A dog that looks like a shepherd is going to scare a lot of people when it charges at them. I used to own a very sweet shepherd mix that I could clearly see some people were fearful of, because she was a shepherd and black to boot (black dogs are euthanized at 4x the rate of other dogs at animal shelters). I now have a freckle faced border collie mix that people beg me to pet when we are out on a walk.

People have fears of dogs for legitimate reasons. The eggshell-plaintiff doctrine protects the rights of a plaintiff whose pre-existing fragility makes them particularly susceptible to injury. The tort-feasor takes the injured plaintiff as she is found.

Sure, but also if you are so scared of dogs that a sweet shepherd bounding at you makes you want to shoot, being an instacart driver or post office worker or in-home technician etc isn’t the job for you.

You are thick. A stranger has no way to know that the dog is 'sweet,' and I've lost count of the lethal and nonlethal dog attacks I've read about where the clueless negligent owners blathered about how 'sweet' and loving their dog was before it mauled or killed a family member, neighbor, or stranger.

The only party at fault here is the dog's owner, PERIOD. Legally and morally she is at fault for the death of her dog.

Postal workers and delivery drivers are bitten, mauled and even killed by dogs every year. They are not the problem - the dog owners are the problem, PERIOD.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/amazon-delivery-driver-found-dead-apparent-dog-attack-rcna53834

https://about.usps.com/newsroom/national-releases/2023/0601-usps-releases-dog-bite-national-rankings.htm

The fact remains that postal workers and delivery drivers interact with dogs ALL THE TIME. If you are terrified of dogs, that isn’t the job for you. You can quote scary news articles all you want but the point stands.

I never said this delivery driver was terrified of dogs, you just did.

He was within his rights to shoot a dog that charged at him.

Very compassionate of you to dismiss the statistics on postal workers and delivery drivers mauled and killed by dogs as 'scary news stories.'

The only bad guy here is Angie Harmon. She killed her dog.

1. ? I didn’t say he terrified either. I made the point that people terrified of dogs should not get a job with such a high incidence of dog interactions, like a UPS driver.
2. He is within his rights to shoot a charging dog. None of us knows if that was the case here. None of us saw the incident.
3. The scary news stories had zero to do with my point.
4. This could very well be a “bad guy” with a gun. We don’t know and likely never will.

[Anonymous]

We used to have a nice, but very large dog. We would always let her out the back door, but DH mistakenly didn’t cut off the front door access with the invisible fence. Of course, we had no idea when packages were being delivered or mail for that matter. The postal worker left a note one day that he would not deliver our mail to the mailbox closest to the porch due to our dog. We were embarrassed and apologized profusely. We attached a mailbox at the farthest entrance to our home, closer to the street, where the dog wouldn’t even be close enough to bark at the mailman. We also talked to our Amazon person who said he loved our dog and brought her treats. We told him to feel free to drop the package at the new mailbox if it made them more comfortable. My dog would have eaten the groceries before I got to the door. Angie is primarily at fault, but shooting the dog seems extreme. You are notified by text well in advance of delivery of groceries or food. Angie needs to get a wireless nest doorbell. It charges from the inside. She can afford it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From Reddit Charlotte: I live in a neighborhood connected to Angie’s and have walked past her house at least once a fortnight for the last couple of years.

Oliver was what I would call a “yappy” dog like many smaller and happier breeds - he would always run to the invisible fence line and give you that typical small dog set of barks before sniffing around for something better to do.

He was very little and never struck me as aggressive. Angie is a known lover of animals, caring for all varieties. It seems out of character for her to ever condone or house an aggressive animal and I find it hard to believe that Oliver would have attacked a delivery guy but wouldn’t have attacked all her baby animals, ducks, and chickens that Oliver lived with.

There is video in the OP of this thread. Oliver is not a 'small' or 'very little' dog. Either this reddit contributor is full of krap or s/he is confusing Oliver with the very much smaller dog also depicted in photos shared by Harmon.

This is what I think too. TMZ reported that there was another dog on the property at the time who wasn’t involved with the incident. I’m thinking the Reddit person is referring to the wrong dog.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate untrained dogs. But shooting the animal is pretty extreme. Carrying pepper spray or a baton would seem to be a better option.

But yes, if you have an untrained dog that will jump happily or get aggressive with strangers, don't let it run around loose when you are expecting a delivery! Also, train your dogs to have better manners and know how to heel and get called off.

Please, enter a property with pit bulls present and let us know how baton and pepper spray work out for you.

Pit bulls were bred for thousands of doggy generations to be nearly impervious to pain - they will hang on to the death in a fight against a bull, a person, another dog, etc. Pepper spray is very likely to make them angrier and more lethal, but not very likely to make them whine and run away.

I used to live in Montana and engaged in back country hiking. Everyone with any common sense knew that carrying bear spray was only any good if you carried two cans, and a gun to boot. The bear (pepper) spray might make a grizzly back off initially, but they are very likely to come back more enraged and ready to kill.

Bullets are far more efficient than capsaicin spray or sticks.

The dog was not a pit bull. It looked like a small hound dog.

That doesn't matter. Dogs bite - ALL dogs are capable of biting. 4.5 MILLION Americans are bitten by dogs every single year. Pit bulls are responsible for more lethal attacks, but all breeds are represented in the dog bite statistics. These statistics are readily available many places online, go google it. GSDs are in the top 5 or 10 of lethal attacks and are a notoriously aggressive (POLICE DOGS, anyone?) breed which are quite often poorly trained in the hands of regular Joe owners.

Out of the 4.5 million people who are bitten by dogs every year, many of them develop ptsd and lifelong fear of dogs. They are not going to do a doggy dna test on the dog charging at them before deciding to be fearful for their well being. A dog that looks like a shepherd is going to scare a lot of people when it charges at them. I used to own a very sweet shepherd mix that I could clearly see some people were fearful of, because she was a shepherd and black to boot (black dogs are euthanized at 4x the rate of other dogs at animal shelters). I now have a freckle faced border collie mix that people beg me to pet when we are out on a walk.

People have fears of dogs for legitimate reasons. The eggshell-plaintiff doctrine protects the rights of a plaintiff whose pre-existing fragility makes them particularly susceptible to injury. The tort-feasor takes the injured plaintiff as she is found.

Sure, but also if you are so scared of dogs that a sweet shepherd bounding at you makes you want to shoot, being an instacart driver or post office worker or in-home technician etc isn’t the job for you.

You are thick. A stranger has no way to know that the dog is 'sweet,' and I've lost count of the lethal and nonlethal dog attacks I've read about where the clueless negligent owners blathered about how 'sweet' and loving their dog was before it mauled or killed a family member, neighbor, or stranger.

The only party at fault here is the dog's owner, PERIOD. Legally and morally she is at fault for the death of her dog.

Postal workers and delivery drivers are bitten, mauled and even killed by dogs every year. They are not the problem - the dog owners are the problem, PERIOD.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/amazon-delivery-driver-found-dead-apparent-dog-attack-rcna53834

https://about.usps.com/newsroom/national-releases/2023/0601-usps-releases-dog-bite-national-rankings.htm

The fact remains that postal workers and delivery drivers interact with dogs ALL THE TIME. If you are terrified of dogs, that isn’t the job for you. You can quote scary news articles all you want but the point stands.

No they aren’t rolling around, playing fetch with doggy or even allowed to pet or motion to the dog. They are doing their drop offs then heading to the next location per job. They aren’t interacting with dog . Half the problem is Dog owners and dogs think everyone should interact or engage with the dog . They are doing a job to drop off the mail or package and then move on.

The fact that they are statistically more likely to be bitten by dogs - a fraction of the total interactions with dogs, mind you - disputes your claims.

No it doesn’t dispute my claim. You don’t get it. They are told not to touch or pet a dog or engage one for the reason you just described : dog bites. Most mail men that are bitten by dogs were not playing with the dog. You are insane if you think that. They are on the clock. It’s not down time at your yard with dog.

Dogs can see anything abruptly thrown like mail or a box as a threat and Anything walking or running away as prey and I assume that’s the case with mail men or delivery drivers Who get bitten . I don’t assume they’re petting and snuggling and snoozing with the dog while they are on their shift

[Anonymous]

I don’t want an Instacart delivery person coming to my front step with a gun on them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Horrible, horrible situation but I don't know... the Ring camera was "conveniently" charging during this one incident so he said/she situation? Am I an @sshole for thinking that?

https://www.etonline.com/instacart-responds-after-angie-harmon-says-shopper-shot-and-killed-her-dog-mid-delivery-222681

My ring camera charges without ever leaving the door. It’s wireless. That part is so weird. I can’t believe she says the delivery person knew that.

Angie should have put her dog inside the house.

This part is super weird. Who would notice if a ring doorbell is charging? Extremely unlikely. And even if they did, who would assume that was the only camera, especially at a rich person’s house - to say nothing of cameras at neighbors. And, after making all those assumptions, decide it was … “safe” for them to shoot and kill a dog? Just defies any logic and makes it seem like her story has big holes in it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t want an Instacart delivery person coming to my front step with a gun on them.

If you live in North Carolina, you need to conspicuously post signage that open or concealed carry is prohibited on your property.

You can check the Giffords website for relevant information about requirements in other states that allow open and concealed carry, but I’m guessing it is the same in most such jurisdictions - the property owner is required to affirmatively post signage prohibiting the carrying of firearms on their property, otherwise it is legal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think anyone who shoots a little dog not actually physically on them rather than just go back to their car is deranged and is going to shoot someone eventually. The man was delivering illegally, carrying a loaded weapon to people's homes? Noooo. I keep my dog inside but there is one person more in the wrong here, and that's trigger-happy weirdo.

Finally a sensible person.

Yes, I think people should contain and control their dogs. Yes, I think Angie Harmon was a bad dog owner. But to act like going straight to SHOOTING a dog because you feel threatened is a justified action is sick.

Per Angie's version of the story there was no wound on the delivery guy. Shoot a dog if you need to get it to let go of your leg. But shooting a dog because it barked aggressively at you and got close to you? Come on people, this is not reasonable.

And risk shooting your own leg. You can’t be serious it’s a dog. I’ll repeat it’s a dog. If a dog rushed at me I’d beat, kick or club it senseless. If I had a gun I’d shoot it way before it got close enough no to me to kick, beat or club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate untrained dogs. But shooting the animal is pretty extreme. Carrying pepper spray or a baton would seem to be a better option.

But yes, if you have an untrained dog that will jump happily or get aggressive with strangers, don't let it run around loose when you are expecting a delivery! Also, train your dogs to have better manners and know how to heel and get called off.

Please, enter a property with pit bulls present and let us know how baton and pepper spray work out for you.

Pit bulls were bred for thousands of doggy generations to be nearly impervious to pain - they will hang on to the death in a fight against a bull, a person, another dog, etc. Pepper spray is very likely to make them angrier and more lethal, but not very likely to make them whine and run away.

I used to live in Montana and engaged in back country hiking. Everyone with any common sense knew that carrying bear spray was only any good if you carried two cans, and a gun to boot. The bear (pepper) spray might make a grizzly back off initially, but they are very likely to come back more enraged and ready to kill.

Bullets are far more efficient than capsaicin spray or sticks.

The dog was not a pit bull. It looked like a small hound dog.

So? All dogs bite. No biting is acceptable by any dog.

I know a lot of people who were bitten by dogs, and I myself am afraid of large dogs...None of the dogs involved were shot, and I certainly wouldn't shoot a dog. There's something really odd about defending this man's actions. This wasn't the crazy type of attack you hear about in the news with enraged pit bulls.

So it sounds like you've never been bitten by a dog yourself.

I have, and I didn't shoot the dog (a small-medium dog, not a pit bull) because I don't own a gun. If I had pepper spray, I wouldn't hesitate to spray it, or do whatever I needed to protect myself.

I will not wait for contact again before defending my safety by any means. No dog should ever be lunging at someone, leashed or not. The onus is not on the public to be psychic and know your dog's personal temperament, or to wait until contact is made. It's 100% an owner's responsibility.

I think there's something really, really wrong with people defending lazy owners who aren't in control of their animals at all time.

If you shot at a leashed dog who “lunged” at you, you would rightly be prosecuted.

False. See the incident in McLean a few years ago.

My neighbor has a dog that she can’t control. I’ve seen the dog lunge, her drop the leash and the dog attack another dog. A leash only works when the dog is well trained and or the person holding the dog back is strong enough to hold onto the leash.

[Anonymous]

Postal worker killed by dog attack

https://www.news4jax.com/i-team/2023/03/15/a-beautiful-person-in-every-way-family-of-mail-carrier-killed-in-dog-attack-speaks-out-demands-accountability/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t want an Instacart delivery person coming to my front step with a gun on them.

+1 this was clearly a sociopath

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well the insta cart shopper has been fired. So the dog owner has her "justice".

He should sue for unlawful termination. All he did was defend himself in a dangerous situation. If the authorities found no cause to press charges, there is no justification for terminating him.

He was not legally authorized to work for Instacart, took on (bought, stole?) another person's account. People do this to bypass background checks because they would not qualify otherwise. The biggest takeaway from this story is these delivery drivers are actually not vetted and not safe. Get your own food!

Lyft, Uber, Doordash, and Instacart would likely collapse if they were forced to strictly police the accounts being used by undocumented workers or those who could not pass a background check. The problem really is that widespread. These companies are run on illegal labor, often under coercive labor conditions or some form of the "sharecropping" model.

Now I'm really curious how UberTeen is supposed to operate. Apparently they are subject to a deeper background check. These gig work companies could do facial recognition for workers during the shift to ensure its actually the person who is registered. It's really only a matter of time before there's a horrifically violent incident

Last week had a delivery from a man under a woman’s name, he could speak no English. Now this! It’s not safe people. What if I said leave at the bottom of the driveway?