Report of a massive fight at Clarksburg HS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to moderately Moco. Says they can’t punish the known problems because their suspension rate is already too high

Do you know who runs Moderately MOCO?

Yeah, might want to figure that out.

RW garbage.

I do, and yes, right-wing, though I expect he's sincere in his belief that HE is the moderate and EVERYONE ELSE is the extremists.

This is why things never seem to improve in our county. Whenever someone brings up serious issues, like violence in schools (which we all know is a real problem), people start name-calling. It just derails the whole conversation and makes it hard to focus on what really matters. We need to stay on topic and have a mature discussion about these issues if we want to make any real progress in solving them.

The county and mcps as well as the county council and boe are too worried about being woke than they are about safety.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to moderately Moco. Says they can’t punish the known problems because their suspension rate is already too high

Do you know who runs Moderately MOCO?

Yeah, might want to figure that out.

RW garbage.

I do, and yes, right-wing, though I expect he's sincere in his belief that HE is the moderate and EVERYONE ELSE is the extremists.

This is why things never seem to improve in our county. Whenever someone brings up serious issues, like violence in schools (which we all know is a real problem), people start name-calling. It just derails the whole conversation and makes it hard to focus on what really matters. We need to stay on topic and have a mature discussion about these issues if we want to make any real progress in solving them.

"right-wing" is name-calling now?

DP here. It seems that “right wing” is often used to encompass anything that is right of progressive, even liberal to moderate opinions.

I agree with the PP. This does tend to shut down conversations. I am liberal and fully support SROs, and I’ve been called right wing on DCUM for that view. I also don’t care for restorative Justice as a solution to school violence, and I was labeled right wing for that view, as well.

And sometimes it's used accurately, as in this case. Whose conversation is this shutting down? Certainly not Jason's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to moderately Moco. Says they can’t punish the known problems because their suspension rate is already too high

Do you know who runs Moderately MOCO?

Yeah, might want to figure that out.

RW garbage.

I do, and yes, right-wing, though I expect he's sincere in his belief that HE is the moderate and EVERYONE ELSE is the extremists.

This is why things never seem to improve in our county. Whenever someone brings up serious issues, like violence in schools (which we all know is a real problem), people start name-calling. It just derails the whole conversation and makes it hard to focus on what really matters. We need to stay on topic and have a mature discussion about these issues if we want to make any real progress in solving them.

"right-wing" is name-calling now?

It is a label that is pulled out to end discourse on a politically inconvenient topic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to moderately Moco. Says they can’t punish the known problems because their suspension rate is already too high

Do you know who runs Moderately MOCO?

Yeah, might want to figure that out.

RW garbage.

I do, and yes, right-wing, though I expect he's sincere in his belief that HE is the moderate and EVERYONE ELSE is the extremists.

This is why things never seem to improve in our county. Whenever someone brings up serious issues, like violence in schools (which we all know is a real problem), people start name-calling. It just derails the whole conversation and makes it hard to focus on what really matters. We need to stay on topic and have a mature discussion about these issues if we want to make any real progress in solving them.

"right-wing" is name-calling now?

It is a label that is pulled out to end discourse on a politically inconvenient topic.

If so, it doesn't seem to be effective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to moderately Moco. Says they can’t punish the known problems because their suspension rate is already too high

Do you know who runs Moderately MOCO?

Yeah, might want to figure that out.

RW garbage.

I do, and yes, right-wing, though I expect he's sincere in his belief that HE is the moderate and EVERYONE ELSE is the extremists.

This is why things never seem to improve in our county. Whenever someone brings up serious issues, like violence in schools (which we all know is a real problem), people start name-calling. It just derails the whole conversation and makes it hard to focus on what really matters. We need to stay on topic and have a mature discussion about these issues if we want to make any real progress in solving them.

"right-wing" is name-calling now?

It is a label that is pulled out to end discourse on a politically inconvenient topic.

If so, it doesn't seem to be effective.

DP. Good! Why would we want to end discourse? Sounds extremely dangerous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to moderately Moco. Says they can’t punish the known problems because their suspension rate is already too high

Do you know who runs Moderately MOCO?

Yeah, might want to figure that out.

RW garbage.

I do, and yes, right-wing, though I expect he's sincere in his belief that HE is the moderate and EVERYONE ELSE is the extremists.

This is why things never seem to improve in our county. Whenever someone brings up serious issues, like violence in schools (which we all know is a real problem), people start name-calling. It just derails the whole conversation and makes it hard to focus on what really matters. We need to stay on topic and have a mature discussion about these issues if we want to make any real progress in solving them.

"right-wing" is name-calling now?

It is a label that is pulled out to end discourse on a politically inconvenient topic.

If so, it doesn't seem to be effective.

DP. Good! Why would we want to end discourse? Sounds extremely dangerous.

Why indeed? Especially not by calling "right wing" things that actually are right wing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to moderately Moco. Says they can’t punish the known problems because their suspension rate is already too high

Do you know who runs Moderately MOCO?

Yeah, might want to figure that out.

RW garbage.

I do, and yes, right-wing, though I expect he's sincere in his belief that HE is the moderate and EVERYONE ELSE is the extremists.

This is why things never seem to improve in our county. Whenever someone brings up serious issues, like violence in schools (which we all know is a real problem), people start name-calling. It just derails the whole conversation and makes it hard to focus on what really matters. We need to stay on topic and have a mature discussion about these issues if we want to make any real progress in solving them.

"right-wing" is name-calling now?

It is a label that is pulled out to end discourse on a politically inconvenient topic.

And to dismiss and disparage the credibility of the person saying the information that MCPS defenders wish to suppress and ignore. It’s pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:B-CC Parents say "Oh Please"

Certainly not. How dumb are you? This BCC parent says we need to band together and pressure the Board and MCPS to keep violent students OUT of our schools!!!

We need to pay for expanded alternate schools for these kids. They do not belong in mainstream schools. Period.

This. The only way out of this is to have a massive group of parents show up at every BOE meeting and speak out against what's happening. Enough is enough. We need to stop being fearful of what other people might say about us.

Aren't there federal requirements mandating the least restricted environment fur all students? That is where all those separate programs went

LRE has been the law since the 70s. The programs were eliminated because they're expensive.

Nope
They were closed because they had low test scores.

A few things:

-Teachers joke that Least restrictive environment really mean least expensive environment.

-We don’t know if the students involved were in any specialized programs. It is very hard to get placed into one. In my experience, most of the worst kids are not in these programs since it isn’t really a learning issue or an emotional disturbance issue. They are just intent on disrupting the school due to control issues, drama, gang affiliation, etc. I don’t buy into the whole generational poverty excuse. These kids know exactly what they are doing and that there are no consequences.

A lot of those kids act up because they are not able to complete the class work as a distraction. Many only have very basic academics. And, yes there is far more going on with them. I have reached out to teachers with a concern and they tell me my kid is ok when they are not. Then again, that teacher often gets the wrong so they clearly don’t know who my kid even is.

Teachers know very little about the background of students. No one tells us. Just because a vice principal or counselor was told something doesn't mean any of that will ever be communicated to teachers.
I get that they don't want to bias teachers. But if we are given no information, how do you expect outcomes to improve. The teacher gets blamed no matter what.

As a teacher take the time to get to know your students and listen to parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:B-CC Parents say "Oh Please"

Certainly not. How dumb are you? This BCC parent says we need to band together and pressure the Board and MCPS to keep violent students OUT of our schools!!!

We need to pay for expanded alternate schools for these kids. They do not belong in mainstream schools. Period.

This. The only way out of this is to have a massive group of parents show up at every BOE meeting and speak out against what's happening. Enough is enough. We need to stop being fearful of what other people might say about us.

Aren't there federal requirements mandating the least restricted environment fur all students? That is where all those separate programs went

LRE has been the law since the 70s. The programs were eliminated because they're expensive.

Nope
They were closed because they had low test scores.

A few things:

-Teachers joke that Least restrictive environment really mean least expensive environment.

-We don’t know if the students involved were in any specialized programs. It is very hard to get placed into one. In my experience, most of the worst kids are not in these programs since it isn’t really a learning issue or an emotional disturbance issue. They are just intent on disrupting the school due to control issues, drama, gang affiliation, etc. I don’t buy into the whole generational poverty excuse. These kids know exactly what they are doing and that there are no consequences.

A lot of those kids act up because they are not able to complete the class work as a distraction. Many only have very basic academics. And, yes there is far more going on with them. I have reached out to teachers with a concern and they tell me my kid is ok when they are not. Then again, that teacher often gets the wrong so they clearly don’t know who my kid even is.

Teachers know very little about the background of students. No one tells us. Just because a vice principal or counselor was told something doesn't mean any of that will ever be communicated to teachers.
I get that they don't want to bias teachers. But if we are given no information, how do you expect outcomes to improve. The teacher gets blamed no matter what.

As a teacher take the time to get to know your students and listen to parents.

I have 147 students and at least that many parents and guardians. I figure I have a little less than 2 minutes a day for each student, and that’s assuming I’m not doing any direct instruction.

I have less than an hour a day for grading, planning, meetings, emails, lunch, and bathroom breaks. I’m not sure how many of those 147 parents/guardians I can contact in that time.

I am currently accepting suggestions. How should I get to personally know this many people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to moderately Moco. Says they can’t punish the known problems because their suspension rate is already too high

Do you know who runs Moderately MOCO?

Yeah, might want to figure that out.

RW garbage.

I do, and yes, right-wing, though I expect he's sincere in his belief that HE is the moderate and EVERYONE ELSE is the extremists.

This is why things never seem to improve in our county. Whenever someone brings up serious issues, like violence in schools (which we all know is a real problem), people start name-calling. It just derails the whole conversation and makes it hard to focus on what really matters. We need to stay on topic and have a mature discussion about these issues if we want to make any real progress in solving them.

"right-wing" is name-calling now?

It is a label that is pulled out to end discourse on a politically inconvenient topic.

If so, it doesn't seem to be effective.

DP. Good! Why would we want to end discourse? Sounds extremely dangerous.

Why indeed? Especially not by calling "right wing" things that actually are right wing.

I’ll bite. What’s actually right wing that has been mentioned recently on this thread? School safety concerns? A more favorable view of SROs? A critical view toward restorative Justice? Because I’ve mentioned all of them and I’m definitely not right wing. I’ve also seen reasoned views about these on Moderately MoCo, and I wouldn’t say those viewpoints are right wing either. They are, however, contrary to extremely progressive viewpoints. That’s all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you factored in 70 hour work weeks, no breaks during 12 hr work days, buying thousands of dollars of supplies that you can't write off on taxes as your school refuses to let you use books etc. Have you factored in being assaulted by students and then being blamed by admin because you were disrespected or attacked trying to teach. Then written up negatively that you didn't do enough. Then Having to explain to unemployment the circumstances of educators because the school system lied about your reason for leaving to hack any small benefits that you might have accrued. It's not only that they don't support, or dont want to pay us, but they try to ruin our careers when we devote 100% of our lives to teaching kids

Most teachers are paid pretty well for a 10 month job. If you aren't happy, quit.

Yes, they work at most 180 days per year. My kids teachers are out a couple days a month on top of that. They also have an amazing pension the likes of which nobody else gets. It would be like your job sets aside half your pay to help you retire someday. The pension alone is worth 40k a year.

Regular county employees don't get a pension or the health care that the MCPS employees get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:B-CC Parents say "Oh Please"

Certainly not. How dumb are you? This BCC parent says we need to band together and pressure the Board and MCPS to keep violent students OUT of our schools!!!

We need to pay for expanded alternate schools for these kids. They do not belong in mainstream schools. Period.

This. The only way out of this is to have a massive group of parents show up at every BOE meeting and speak out against what's happening. Enough is enough. We need to stop being fearful of what other people might say about us.

Aren't there federal requirements mandating the least restricted environment fur all students? That is where all those separate programs went

LRE has been the law since the 70s. The programs were eliminated because they're expensive.

Nope
They were closed because they had low test scores.

Of course they have low test score. Those kids I’d not get the help they needed early on and many cannot read or write.

I remember teaching both my kids to read. I never expected the school system to do this at least not on its own. Maybe the parents of these kids need to be more involved and stop expecting the county to do everything for them.

Many of us worked with our kids at home but we still need to collaborate with teachers, many of whom refuse to work with parents, which is part of the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to moderately Moco. Says they can’t punish the known problems because their suspension rate is already too high

Do you know who runs Moderately MOCO?

Yeah, might want to figure that out.

RW garbage.

I do, and yes, right-wing, though I expect he's sincere in his belief that HE is the moderate and EVERYONE ELSE is the extremists.

This is why things never seem to improve in our county. Whenever someone brings up serious issues, like violence in schools (which we all know is a real problem), people start name-calling. It just derails the whole conversation and makes it hard to focus on what really matters. We need to stay on topic and have a mature discussion about these issues if we want to make any real progress in solving them.

The county and mcps as well as the county council and boe are too worried about being woke than they are about safety.

I doubt that's true.

I'm not in that area, but I am fairly aware of issues going on in schools today and what's driving the choices of school boards and superintendents and principals etc.

I've posted elsewhere on the board - and was a bit smug a few months back - about being an attorney who was used to high stress and working 70-80 hour weeks on average and more during weeks I was in trial or trial prep. I'd been planning to apply to Teach for America as a midlife career changer and I felt confident that I would be up to the task because there was very little I hadn't seen in my years working as a domestic violence advocate, legal aid attorney, public defender and prosecutor.

Then I took a job working at a before/after school program at the YMCA so I could get some time working with kids ahead of starting this TFA thing in the summer. And WOW. I had NO IDEA what kids in school are like today. Some of them are wonderful, but a good 10-15% are FERAL. They are physically assaultive toward adult teachers, they curse like sailors, they call us pedophiles, they make it their mission to disrupt the entire classroom and try to antagonize staff endlessly. AND THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT. We write them up and give those incident reports to parents who don't care. We threaten to suspend them for a day or two and that threat goes to a parent who doesn't care. We threaten to bar them from summer camp and all the fun activities and they just don't care because they know there is little likelihood that threat will be followed through.

The school bus company is desperate for drivers because they keep quitting over the feral behavior of kids on the bus, and the zero consequences that come of reporting it.

Why are there no consequences? I did research on the school district where I would be teaching if I did TFA - they were sued a decade ago by the ACLU and federal OCR because they were issuing too many in school and out of school suspensions and a fairly high percentage were kids who were BIPOC. They found no evidence that the school district's discipline policies were racially biased, but since the result of applying them was that more BIPOC kids were getting suspended from school, they sued anyway. And the school district was cowed and rewrote the disciplinary guidelines and now the suspension rates have fallen substantially and the misbehavior is off the charts.

During school vacation week I worked full days - no lesson planning, no grading, no contact with parents and such, just trying to manage and entertain a classroom full of kids for a full day. I nearly pissed my pants several times waiting for relief to use the toilet. I didn't get any lunches or breaks of any kind. I went home dead tired every evening and was in bed asleep by 8:30 only to get up at the buttcrack of dawn to do it all over again. The kids screamed at me, called me names, kicked and shoved me - and I'm working with kindergartners so it's not nearly as bad as the staff working with MS kids. From what I'm hearing from the trenches, I would NEVER put my physical safety at risk to work with HS kids.

I sympathize with teachers. When I was an attorney in the trenches of the criminal justice system, I worked very long hours and didn't get vacation weeks off at holidays and in summer, but I didn't work as hard either. I was shown respect by most everyone I interacted with, including hardened criminal defendants. I wasn't screamed at and called names. I got a lunch break and bathroom breaks when I needed them. I interacted mostly with other responsible adults. It could be very stressful at times, mostly because I'm a perfectionist and had a very hard time letting go of thinking about my caseload and the parties to the cases so work was on my mind 24/7. But it wasn't anything like the exhaustion level I feel after dealing with a classroom of kids all day and trying to manage the future criminals and deadbeats in the class. I doubt very much at midlife I would have the energy to do 8 hours of that and then go home for the second shift of lesson planning, grading and contacting parents.

Bless the folks who are sticking it out. I think the posters here criticizing teachers are full of poop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to moderately Moco. Says they can’t punish the known problems because their suspension rate is already too high

Do you know who runs Moderately MOCO?

Yeah, might want to figure that out.

RW garbage.

I do, and yes, right-wing, though I expect he's sincere in his belief that HE is the moderate and EVERYONE ELSE is the extremists.

This is why things never seem to improve in our county. Whenever someone brings up serious issues, like violence in schools (which we all know is a real problem), people start name-calling. It just derails the whole conversation and makes it hard to focus on what really matters. We need to stay on topic and have a mature discussion about these issues if we want to make any real progress in solving them.

The county and mcps as well as the county council and boe are too worried about being woke than they are about safety.

I doubt that's true.

I'm not in that area, but I am fairly aware of issues going on in schools today and what's driving the choices of school boards and superintendents and principals etc.

I've posted elsewhere on the board - and was a bit smug a few months back - about being an attorney who was used to high stress and working 70-80 hour weeks on average and more during weeks I was in trial or trial prep. I'd been planning to apply to Teach for America as a midlife career changer and I felt confident that I would be up to the task because there was very little I hadn't seen in my years working as a domestic violence advocate, legal aid attorney, public defender and prosecutor.

Then I took a job working at a before/after school program at the YMCA so I could get some time working with kids ahead of starting this TFA thing in the summer. And WOW. I had NO IDEA what kids in school are like today. Some of them are wonderful, but a good 10-15% are FERAL. They are physically assaultive toward adult teachers, they curse like sailors, they call us pedophiles, they make it their mission to disrupt the entire classroom and try to antagonize staff endlessly. AND THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT. We write them up and give those incident reports to parents who don't care. We threaten to suspend them for a day or two and that threat goes to a parent who doesn't care. We threaten to bar them from summer camp and all the fun activities and they just don't care because they know there is little likelihood that threat will be followed through.

The school bus company is desperate for drivers because they keep quitting over the feral behavior of kids on the bus, and the zero consequences that come of reporting it.

Why are there no consequences? I did research on the school district where I would be teaching if I did TFA - they were sued a decade ago by the ACLU and federal OCR because they were issuing too many in school and out of school suspensions and a fairly high percentage were kids who were BIPOC. They found no evidence that the school district's discipline policies were racially biased, but since the result of applying them was that more BIPOC kids were getting suspended from school, they sued anyway. And the school district was cowed and rewrote the disciplinary guidelines and now the suspension rates have fallen substantially and the misbehavior is off the charts.

During school vacation week I worked full days - no lesson planning, no grading, no contact with parents and such, just trying to manage and entertain a classroom full of kids for a full day. I nearly pissed my pants several times waiting for relief to use the toilet. I didn't get any lunches or breaks of any kind. I went home dead tired every evening and was in bed asleep by 8:30 only to get up at the buttcrack of dawn to do it all over again. The kids screamed at me, called me names, kicked and shoved me - and I'm working with kindergartners so it's not nearly as bad as the staff working with MS kids. From what I'm hearing from the trenches, I would NEVER put my physical safety at risk to work with HS kids.

I sympathize with teachers. When I was an attorney in the trenches of the criminal justice system, I worked very long hours and didn't get vacation weeks off at holidays and in summer, but I didn't work as hard either. I was shown respect by most everyone I interacted with, including hardened criminal defendants. I wasn't screamed at and called names. I got a lunch break and bathroom breaks when I needed them. I interacted mostly with other responsible adults. It could be very stressful at times, mostly because I'm a perfectionist and had a very hard time letting go of thinking about my caseload and the parties to the cases so work was on my mind 24/7. But it wasn't anything like the exhaustion level I feel after dealing with a classroom of kids all day and trying to manage the future criminals and deadbeats in the class. I doubt very much at midlife I would have the energy to do 8 hours of that and then go home for the second shift of lesson planning, grading and contacting parents.

Bless the folks who are sticking it out. I think the posters here criticizing teachers are full of poop.

Hello! I remember you. We argued a bit back and forth. (I think I was warning you, hoping you would reach out to existing teachers before making the jump.)

Thank you for this extremely gracious and informative post. You are helping teachers simply by posting it, because you are providing insight into what we deal with each day.

I’ll probably be leaving the profession soon since I just can’t do this anymore. I’m not sure where I’m heading, so come back and post if you have any employment ideas for a former teacher!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you factored in 70 hour work weeks, no breaks during 12 hr work days, buying thousands of dollars of supplies that you can't write off on taxes as your school refuses to let you use books etc. Have you factored in being assaulted by students and then being blamed by admin because you were disrespected or attacked trying to teach. Then written up negatively that you didn't do enough. Then Having to explain to unemployment the circumstances of educators because the school system lied about your reason for leaving to hack any small benefits that you might have accrued. It's not only that they don't support, or dont want to pay us, but they try to ruin our careers when we devote 100% of our lives to teaching kids

Most teachers are paid pretty well for a 10 month job. If you aren't happy, quit.

Yes, they work at most 180 days per year. My kids teachers are out a couple days a month on top of that. They also have an amazing pension the likes of which nobody else gets. It would be like your job sets aside half your pay to help you retire someday. The pension alone is worth 40k a year.

Regular county employees don't get a pension or the health care that the MCPS employees get.

Omg. You have job idea what you are taking about. The police pension is incredible.