Are US News rankings making DC rethink college list?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, here is a question for all those who claim the rankings have no impact on your college decision.

How do you even come up with a list from the start? If your kid is generally just interested in a common major...say finance, CS, mechanical engineering, political science...how do you come up with your list of say 30 schools (to start)?

Is there some easy way to find out class sizes by school and all these other criteria you espouse? Won't that search still result in hundreds of schools that meet those criteria? Are you limiting geographic search so that the first cut is manageable?

Putting aside the overall USNews rankings...are the rankings by Major/Specialty done by the same criteria as the list as a whole, or are those more "honest" rankings of the quality of the program?

I don't disagree that the ultimate decision is not based on the rankings...but again, how do you come up with your initial list of 30 schools without at least looking at the top 150 schools as determined by USNews?

Easy. I’ve lived in this country for 49 years. I’ve gone to 2 colleges. Undergrad and professional. Over the course of 25 years working and 17 years parenting, I’ve come into contact with hundreds of people from probably every one of the “top 150” or so and some that are not in that. Basically if I haven’t heard of it thru that extended network, it’s probably just going to stay off my radar and there’s no chance I’m
missing out on one anyone works consider prestigious. I can eliminate some because of admissions standards. Basically not interested in anything that admits fewer than 20%. And eliminate many geographically, or based on offered majors (or absence). And size. Between 3,000 and 10 or 12,0000. Being in Virginia, several of the public universities will be very much on the menu. And a handful of others to explore. But where any of them fall with USNWR rankings is not relevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, here is a question for all those who claim the rankings have no impact on your college decision.

How do you even come up with a list from the start? If your kid is generally just interested in a common major...say finance, CS, mechanical engineering, political science...how do you come up with your list of say 30 schools (to start)?

Is there some easy way to find out class sizes by school and all these other criteria you espouse? Won't that search still result in hundreds of schools that meet those criteria? Are you limiting geographic search so that the first cut is manageable?

Putting aside the overall USNews rankings...are the rankings by Major/Specialty done by the same criteria as the list as a whole, or are those more "honest" rankings of the quality of the program?

I don't disagree that the ultimate decision is not based on the rankings...but again, how do you come up with your initial list of 30 schools without at least looking at the top 150 schools as determined by USNews?

Easy. I’ve lived in this country for 49 years. I’ve gone to 2 colleges. Undergrad and professional. Over the course of 25 years working and 17 years parenting, I’ve come into contact with hundreds of people from probably every one of the “top 150” or so and some that are not in that. Basically if I haven’t heard of it thru that extended network, it’s probably just going to stay off my radar and there’s no chance I’m
missing out on one anyone works consider prestigious. I can eliminate some because of admissions standards. Basically not interested in anything that admits fewer than 20%. And eliminate many geographically, or based on offered majors (or absence). And size. Between 3,000 and 10 or 12,0000. Being in Virginia, several of the public universities will be very much on the menu. And a handful of others to explore. But where any of them fall with USNWR rankings is not relevant.

Sounds very complicated unorganized random and not easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, my child is sane.

Rankings don’t even factor in. Current priority list is:

1. Fit
2. Fit
3. How’s the fit?
4. Strength of desired degree programs
5. Vibe check
6. Net price and can we avoid loans
7. Odds of acceptance, maybe 1 or 2 lottery plays at most

Fit is such a bullshit term. What it really means is “we are full pay and our kid can’t into a top school.”

I don't think its a BS term whatsoever. It really should be the top reason for choosing a college not because some insecure parent wants to brag

It is a BS term just like 'thriving' is a BS term as in: my DC found a perfect 'fit' at [2nd rate no name very small LAC that can be passed off as something better/exotic] and is 'thriving' there.

LOL. Only a insecure person would write something so dumb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We started by defining what my kid wanted:Southern, medium to large school, excellent academics, decent football/spectator sports and Greek life.

This was the initial list, in no particular order: Florida, UNC, UVA, Duke, Vandy, Emory, Texas, Wake Forest, Davidson, Clemson. Duke came off because no one gets in from their school, and Davidson was deemed too small. Emory moved to the bottom because they didn’t like the social scene but stayed on list because of excellent pre med. Ultimately all schools applied to, other than Clemson, had a medical school and hospital, which was a nice plus since student is starting out premed.

Are you trying to claim that this list of schools had nothing to do with rankings? They are all very highly ranked schools...and you omitted hundreds of other schools that fit your criteria...and you have a school like Emory that has no football and really not great spectator sports (according to our tour guide)...but it is ranked highly!

We didn’t need to go to US News to be aware of the existence of these schools. What a strange comment. You can search by size and location on Naviance, College kick start, etc. . . Our student had the stats to be competitive at all these schools, we didn’t have to seek out schools we weren’t familiar with.

And yes, no football is one of the reasons Emory went to the bottom of the list but it didn’t seem an important enough factor to rule it out entirely. It isn’t the school my student is attending.

Right, but no Tulane? Won the Cotton Bowl against USC last year! It also has a great med school. It literally hits all your points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, here is a question for all those who claim the rankings have no impact on your college decision.

How do you even come up with a list from the start? If your kid is generally just interested in a common major...say finance, CS, mechanical engineering, political science...how do you come up with your list of say 30 schools (to start)?

Is there some easy way to find out class sizes by school and all these other criteria you espouse? Won't that search still result in hundreds of schools that meet those criteria? Are you limiting geographic search so that the first cut is manageable?

Putting aside the overall USNews rankings...are the rankings by Major/Specialty done by the same criteria as the list as a whole, or are those more "honest" rankings of the quality of the program?

I don't disagree that the ultimate decision is not based on the rankings...but again, how do you come up with your initial list of 30 schools without at least looking at the top 150 schools as determined by USNews?

Easy. I’ve lived in this country for 49 years. I’ve gone to 2 colleges. Undergrad and professional. Over the course of 25 years working and 17 years parenting, I’ve come into contact with hundreds of people from probably every one of the “top 150” or so and some that are not in that. Basically if I haven’t heard of it thru that extended network, it’s probably just going to stay off my radar and there’s no chance I’m
missing out on one anyone works consider prestigious. I can eliminate some because of admissions standards. Basically not interested in anything that admits fewer than 20%. And eliminate many geographically, or based on offered majors (or absence). And size. Between 3,000 and 10 or 12,0000. Being in Virginia, several of the public universities will be very much on the menu. And a handful of others to explore. But where any of them fall with USNWR rankings is not relevant.

So you admitted you care about the rankings...they have to fall into the "top 150" + a couple of random schools that you have heard about (so sure, let's throw them in)...so guess what, by looking at USNews in 30 seconds you narrowed your college list from 3,000 to 150. After another 30 seconds, you screened out those schools with less than a 20% admit rate. You probably are left with about 120 schools + the randoms.

Thank you...that is the approach 99.9% of us take...and there is nothing wrong with that, so not sure why there are so many that are so adamant that the rankings don't matter.

I agree that picking #20 vs. #45 based just on rankings is stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We started by defining what my kid wanted:Southern, medium to large school, excellent academics, decent football/spectator sports and Greek life.

This was the initial list, in no particular order: Florida, UNC, UVA, Duke, Vandy, Emory, Texas, Wake Forest, Davidson, Clemson. Duke came off because no one gets in from their school, and Davidson was deemed too small. Emory moved to the bottom because they didn’t like the social scene but stayed on list because of excellent pre med. Ultimately all schools applied to, other than Clemson, had a medical school and hospital, which was a nice plus since student is starting out premed.

Are you trying to claim that this list of schools had nothing to do with rankings? They are all very highly ranked schools...and you omitted hundreds of other schools that fit your criteria...and you have a school like Emory that has no football and really not great spectator sports (according to our tour guide)...but it is ranked highly!

We didn’t need to go to US News to be aware of the existence of these schools. What a strange comment. You can search by size and location on Naviance, College kick start, etc. . . Our student had the stats to be competitive at all these schools, we didn’t have to seek out schools we weren’t familiar with.

And yes, no football is one of the reasons Emory went to the bottom of the list but it didn’t seem an important enough factor to rule it out entirely. It isn’t the school my student is attending.

Right, but no Tulane? Won the Cotton Bowl against USC last year! It also has a great med school. It literally hits all your points.

We felt the city of New Orleans offered too many distractions. Miami eliminated for same reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, here is a question for all those who claim the rankings have no impact on your college decision.

How do you even come up with a list from the start? If your kid is generally just interested in a common major...say finance, CS, mechanical engineering, political science...how do you come up with your list of say 30 schools (to start)?

Is there some easy way to find out class sizes by school and all these other criteria you espouse? Won't that search still result in hundreds of schools that meet those criteria? Are you limiting geographic search so that the first cut is manageable?

Putting aside the overall USNews rankings...are the rankings by Major/Specialty done by the same criteria as the list as a whole, or are those more "honest" rankings of the quality of the program?

I don't disagree that the ultimate decision is not based on the rankings...but again, how do you come up with your initial list of 30 schools without at least looking at the top 150 schools as determined by USNews?

Easy. I’ve lived in this country for 49 years. I’ve gone to 2 colleges. Undergrad and professional. Over the course of 25 years working and 17 years parenting, I’ve come into contact with hundreds of people from probably every one of the “top 150” or so and some that are not in that. Basically if I haven’t heard of it thru that extended network, it’s probably just going to stay off my radar and there’s no chance I’m
missing out on one anyone works consider prestigious. I can eliminate some because of admissions standards. Basically not interested in anything that admits fewer than 20%. And eliminate many geographically, or based on offered majors (or absence). And size. Between 3,000 and 10 or 12,0000. Being in Virginia, several of the public universities will be very much on the menu. And a handful of others to explore. But where any of them fall with USNWR rankings is not relevant.

So you admitted you care about the rankings...they have to fall into the "top 150" + a couple of random schools that you have heard about (so sure, let's throw them in)...so guess what, by looking at USNews in 30 seconds you narrowed your college list from 3,000 to 150. After another 30 seconds, you screened out those schools with less than a 20% admit rate. You probably are left with about 120 schools + the randoms.

Thank you...that is the approach 99.9% of us take...and there is nothing wrong with that, so not sure why there are so many that are so adamant that the rankings don't matter.

I agree that picking #20 vs. #45 based just on rankings is stupid.

Using just rank alone isn't great but looking around 20 and 50 would be Notre Dame or Georgetown versus Lehigh and Northeastern. Without merit $$ involved, I'd have a tough time if my kid picked NE, a good private school with a city location, over Georgetown, another city school with a strong reputation and better name recognition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, here is a question for all those who claim the rankings have no impact on your college decision.

How do you even come up with a list from the start? If your kid is generally just interested in a common major...say finance, CS, mechanical engineering, political science...how do you come up with your list of say 30 schools (to start)?

Is there some easy way to find out class sizes by school and all these other criteria you espouse? Won't that search still result in hundreds of schools that meet those criteria? Are you limiting geographic search so that the first cut is manageable?

Putting aside the overall USNews rankings...are the rankings by Major/Specialty done by the same criteria as the list as a whole, or are those more "honest" rankings of the quality of the program?

I don't disagree that the ultimate decision is not based on the rankings...but again, how do you come up with your initial list of 30 schools without at least looking at the top 150 schools as determined by USNews?

Easy. I’ve lived in this country for 49 years. I’ve gone to 2 colleges. Undergrad and professional. Over the course of 25 years working and 17 years parenting, I’ve come into contact with hundreds of people from probably every one of the “top 150” or so and some that are not in that. Basically if I haven’t heard of it thru that extended network, it’s probably just going to stay off my radar and there’s no chance I’m
missing out on one anyone works consider prestigious. I can eliminate some because of admissions standards. Basically not interested in anything that admits fewer than 20%. And eliminate many geographically, or based on offered majors (or absence). And size. Between 3,000 and 10 or 12,0000. Being in Virginia, several of the public universities will be very much on the menu. And a handful of others to explore. But where any of them fall with USNWR rankings is not relevant.

So you admitted you care about the rankings...they have to fall into the "top 150" + a couple of random schools that you have heard about (so sure, let's throw them in)...so guess what, by looking at USNews in 30 seconds you narrowed your college list from 3,000 to 150. After another 30 seconds, you screened out those schools with less than a 20% admit rate. You probably are left with about 120 schools + the randoms.

Thank you...that is the approach 99.9% of us take...and there is nothing wrong with that, so not sure why there are so many that are so adamant that the rankings don't matter.

I agree that picking #20 vs. #45 based just on rankings is stupid.

Using just rank alone isn't great but looking around 20 and 50 would be Notre Dame or Georgetown versus Lehigh and Northeastern. Without merit $$ involved, I'd have a tough time if my kid picked NE, a good private school with a city location, over Georgetown, another city school with a strong reputation and better name recognition.

Sounds like your justification is really nothing more than Georgetown is ranked 30 slots higher than Northeastern. I am sure there are many instances based on career and physical location that NE would be a better choice and vice versa.

[Anonymous]

No. His list is set, and based on many other assessments of strength in particular programs, curriculum structure, teaching quality, diversity, and other factors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are 2024 US News rankings making DC rethink college list or early applications?

No not at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, here is a question for all those who claim the rankings have no impact on your college decision.

How do you even come up with a list from the start? If your kid is generally just interested in a common major...say finance, CS, mechanical engineering, political science...how do you come up with your list of say 30 schools (to start)?

Is there some easy way to find out class sizes by school and all these other criteria you espouse? Won't that search still result in hundreds of schools that meet those criteria? Are you limiting geographic search so that the first cut is manageable?

Putting aside the overall USNews rankings...are the rankings by Major/Specialty done by the same criteria as the list as a whole, or are those more "honest" rankings of the quality of the program?

I don't disagree that the ultimate decision is not based on the rankings...but again, how do you come up with your initial list of 30 schools without at least looking at the top 150 schools as determined by USNews?

Easy. I’ve lived in this country for 49 years. I’ve gone to 2 colleges. Undergrad and professional. Over the course of 25 years working and 17 years parenting, I’ve come into contact with hundreds of people from probably every one of the “top 150” or so and some that are not in that. Basically if I haven’t heard of it thru that extended network, it’s probably just going to stay off my radar and there’s no chance I’m
missing out on one anyone works consider prestigious. I can eliminate some because of admissions standards. Basically not interested in anything that admits fewer than 20%. And eliminate many geographically, or based on offered majors (or absence). And size. Between 3,000 and 10 or 12,0000. Being in Virginia, several of the public universities will be very much on the menu. And a handful of others to explore. But where any of them fall with USNWR rankings is not relevant.

So you admitted you care about the rankings...they have to fall into the "top 150" + a couple of random schools that you have heard about (so sure, let's throw them in)...so guess what, by looking at USNews in 30 seconds you narrowed your college list from 3,000 to 150. After another 30 seconds, you screened out those schools with less than a 20% admit rate. You probably are left with about 120 schools + the randoms.

Thank you...that is the approach 99.9% of us take...and there is nothing wrong with that, so not sure why there are so many that are so adamant that the rankings don't matter.

I agree that picking #20 vs. #45 based just on rankings is stupid.

Using just rank alone isn't great but looking around 20 and 50 would be Notre Dame or Georgetown versus Lehigh and Northeastern. Without merit $$ involved, I'd have a tough time if my kid picked NE, a good private school with a city location, over Georgetown, another city school with a strong reputation and better name recognition.

For computer engineering, would you pick Georgetown or Lehigh/Northeastern?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DCUM’s reaction to the new rankings absolutely cracks me up. The truth is that the rankings are probably more accurate than ever before, but they run counter to the general thinking of the prevailing DCUM demographic (rich white folks) that since their kids can’t get into an Ivy or Stanford that second tier privates are better than any public and it’s just not true. I’ve always felt the way that US News now does and that’s how our kids approached the college search? Tulane? Wake? Wash U? Etc? Never in a million years would we have paid for schools like those.

I agree with this. I haven't parsed through the new ranking but at least with the schools that people have raised as having fallen a lot - Wash U, Chicago, Wake Forest, Tulane, Emory - I have always scratched my head as to why they were ranked so high. They're not bad schools but just schools that I thought were over rated and not at the level of other similarly ranked schools. I mean, Chicago is a great school but #6? As for Emory, I just know too many unimpressive graduates from there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, here is a question for all those who claim the rankings have no impact on your college decision.

How do you even come up with a list from the start? If your kid is generally just interested in a common major...say finance, CS, mechanical engineering, political science...how do you come up with your list of say 30 schools (to start)?

Is there some easy way to find out class sizes by school and all these other criteria you espouse? Won't that search still result in hundreds of schools that meet those criteria? Are you limiting geographic search so that the first cut is manageable?

Putting aside the overall USNews rankings...are the rankings by Major/Specialty done by the same criteria as the list as a whole, or are those more "honest" rankings of the quality of the program?

I don't disagree that the ultimate decision is not based on the rankings...but again, how do you come up with your initial list of 30 schools without at least looking at the top 150 schools as determined by USNews?

My kid wants to go to a women’s college, that sets an easy filtering parameter. That’s the right fit in my opinion for her interests and personality. Pretty much every school in that genre is good. Those get looked at first.

So we are looking at those plus our in-state excellent Virginia institutions for price protection. Again, hard to go wrong.

It adds up to around 20-30 schools for the first round of sorting.

For this approach to work your kid has to actually be interested in stuff, so talk to them and really try to find out. Ask good questions. Why do they like what they like? What are they interested in learning? What do they need?

They like business? Okay! What aspect? Entrepreneurship? Finance/IB? Working at a big corporation? Innovation? Management? Sales? International trade?

They like CS? Okay! What aspect? Languages? Theory? Applied tech? Machine learning/AI? Robotics? Encryption? Fintech?

There are interesting schools with strengths in all of these areas, and they differ. They may be ranked generically all over the place but very well regarded in their specific niche. If you want to manage ships go to SUNY Maritime or the Merchant Marine Academy, not Princeton.

For example, for Product Design there are very strong programs at Stanford, MIT… and RISD. Fine-tuning the WHY and the WHAT DO YOU ACTUALLY WANT TO LEARN will reveal which program is right.

Where is FIT ranked? What’s the average SAT? Who cares! But in the fashion world it’s very important. If you want to learn how to do that kind of work and make the right connections that’s the only place to be.

“You have very high grades and test scores” is not an interest or a field of study.

So...who determined the Product Design programs were strong at Stanford, MIT, RISD, etc.? Did you independently go through their course curriculums, along with hundreds of other schools that offer Product Design...or did you look at some "rankings" to figure that out?

Let's take CS...so if my kid is interested in Machine Learning, there are literally hundreds of schools that offer Machine Learning...is one supposed to go through each program on their own to determine which are worthwhile...or like most people...are you now looking at rankings of those programs?

I just think it is hypocritical for people to say they don't look at rankings at all.

PP here, I’ve worked closely in the past with successful Innovation and Design firms on projects and took notice of where they hire from and where they look to for intelligence on the subject. I’ve also had people I respect directly tell me to engage with these specific programs when I needed advice on problems/issues.

If someone very successful in their field is telling me “I really respect this school/program, they are smart, they add a lot of value” that holds more weight with me than a defunct news magazine.

Sorting is also a lot easier if you actually know what you are looking for.

First step is figure out what you/child actually want. If your kid does not know yet what they want it’s okay, time to take a journey of discovery together.

Start with big question like is Greek life appealing or not? City or rural? Public or private?

Above poster who listed that their kid wanted “Southern, Greek, big, sports” did great, they had the “what kind of college lifestyle do you want” conversation and then you can fine tune with “well what kind of program do you want”? Premed! Sure thing, let’s see who does that well and has a hospital attached.

If there are “hundreds” of schools doing Subject X and employers don’t strongly care which program you went to and leaders in the field went all over the place for school then the market is sending a signal that it’s a commodity program and it doesn’t really matter what school you learn it at, so go wherever it’s cheapest and offers the favored lifestyle.

I don't understand why it is so hard for folks to admit they use the rankings in some form. If you do a wide search for Southern, Greek, big (what's big?), sports (which sports...all sports?), Premed...you will get many, many results. This is if you are truly open to the results.

So, tell me how does someone independently determine "who does Premed well"? Ok, so I will now ask all the doctors I know...and they will send me to the same schools that are highly ranked in Premed by USNews or another ranking.

Does pre-med well is actually one of the easiest metrics to nail down. How many kids in the last 5 years applied to med school? Realizing that taking a year before Med school is somewhat common. What percentage were admitted? What med schools did they attend?

Many schools have a per-med advisor with this info. Otherwise, career office has it. No premed kid in my family, but I imagine there are 3rd party lists of top MD producers, and of % applicants who are admitted.

There is a paucity of good information on medical school admission rates. There is information available on the number of applicants by school, but it is difficult to compare admission rates on an apples-to-apples basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, my child is sane.

Rankings don’t even factor in. Current priority list is:

1. Fit
2. Fit
3. How’s the fit?
4. Strength of desired degree programs
5. Vibe check
6. Net price and can we avoid loans
7. Odds of acceptance, maybe 1 or 2 lottery plays at most

Fit is such a bullshit term. What it really means is “we are full pay and our kid can’t into a top school.”

I don't think its a BS term whatsoever. It really should be the top reason for choosing a college not because some insecure parent wants to brag

It is a BS term just like 'thriving' is a BS term as in: my DC found a perfect 'fit' at [2nd rate no name very small LAC that can be passed off as something better/exotic] and is 'thriving' there.

I don't like BS, but fit or in other words personal preference/taste is actually very important most of all for intended field of study/program, then location, etc.
Difference in 5 10 15 20 rankings is not significant compared to fit.

Fit is absolutely important. Regardless of the academic or prestige level you are pursuing it matters. A kid who fits at rural Dartmouth may find Columbia an awful fit and vice versa. Williams might be perfect for one kid while Berkeley is right for another. One student loves Chicago's core curriculum while another prefers Brown's open curriculum. What is that if not fit? Which is why applying to all the T10, 15, etc. is really stupid. That would tell me the kid has no idea what they want out of college and/or value prestige over all other factors.

Yes, my kid found their fit at a lower ranked LAC. Working really well for them. Frankly, highly ranked LACs were not a fit since they were not a match for my kid academically or for our budget. Those are just the facts. So she was looking in the realm of schools that were right for her academically and in-budget. Why wouldn't she consider the totality of what she wants in her education and the strength of the particular major vs. just seeing how high on the USNWR list she can get?

Does anyone really look at where they got in, think school A has great things in the department I'm interested in, has the particular EC I want to do, is in the right location, and felt right socially but, oh, I also got into school B and it's 10 points higher on the USNWR list. It doesn't really have all the things I wanted and I didn't really feel at home there but, you know, those 10 points are super important so I should go there? Really? How sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM’s reaction to the new rankings absolutely cracks me up. The truth is that the rankings are probably more accurate than ever before, but they run counter to the general thinking of the prevailing DCUM demographic (rich white folks) that since their kids can’t get into an Ivy or Stanford that second tier privates are better than any public and it’s just not true. I’ve always felt the way that US News now does and that’s how our kids approached the college search? Tulane? Wake? Wash U? Etc? Never in a million years would we have paid for schools like those.

I agree with this. I haven't parsed through the new ranking but at least with the schools that people have raised as having fallen a lot - Wash U, Chicago, Wake Forest, Tulane, Emory - I have always scratched my head as to why they were ranked so high. They're not bad schools but just schools that I thought were over rated and not at the level of other similarly ranked schools. I mean, Chicago is a great school but #6? As for Emory, I just know too many unimpressive graduates from there.

Except the schools that went up make you scratch your head even more. And then you look at the USNWR changed criteria and think why does anybody read this and give it any credit.