Are US News rankings making DC rethink college list?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We started by defining what my kid wanted:Southern, medium to large school, excellent academics, decent football/spectator sports and Greek life.

This was the initial list, in no particular order: Florida, UNC, UVA, Duke, Vandy, Emory, Texas, Wake Forest, Davidson, Clemson. Duke came off because no one gets in from their school, and Davidson was deemed too small. Emory moved to the bottom because they didn’t like the social scene but stayed on list because of excellent pre med. Ultimately all schools applied to, other than Clemson, had a medical school and hospital, which was a nice plus since student is starting out premed.

Are you trying to claim that this list of schools had nothing to do with rankings? They are all very highly ranked schools...and you omitted hundreds of other schools that fit your criteria...and you have a school like Emory that has no football and really not great spectator sports (according to our tour guide)...but it is ranked highly!

We didn’t need to go to US News to be aware of the existence of these schools. What a strange comment. You can search by size and location on Naviance, College kick start, etc. . . Our student had the stats to be competitive at all these schools, we didn’t have to seek out schools we weren’t familiar with.

And yes, no football is one of the reasons Emory went to the bottom of the list but it didn’t seem an important enough factor to rule it out entirely. It isn’t the school my student is attending.

You don’t need a ranking list to observe that your student’s grades/test scores match successful applicants at a certain school.

A kid with a 3.9/1450 is going to look at schools that appeal to kids with 3.9/1450 and have lots of those kids on campus.

That’s part of the matching process: where are there lots of people like me?

The constant plea of “it’s impossible to decide without a ranked list” only makes sense for some kind of intangible prestige being a big factor in the decision, which as other have pointed out is picking a school that other people are impressed by.

My kid doesn’t like UVA, doesn’t like Charlottesville. Fundamental lifestyle mismatch. Not going to apply because if they get in they aren’t going. Could they get in? Doesn’t matter. Not going.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, here is a question for all those who claim the rankings have no impact on your college decision.

How do you even come up with a list from the start? If your kid is generally just interested in a common major...say finance, CS, mechanical engineering, political science...how do you come up with your list of say 30 schools (to start)?

Is there some easy way to find out class sizes by school and all these other criteria you espouse? Won't that search still result in hundreds of schools that meet those criteria? Are you limiting geographic search so that the first cut is manageable?

Putting aside the overall USNews rankings...are the rankings by Major/Specialty done by the same criteria as the list as a whole, or are those more "honest" rankings of the quality of the program?

I don't disagree that the ultimate decision is not based on the rankings...but again, how do you come up with your initial list of 30 schools without at least looking at the top 150 schools as determined by USNews?

One of those big college guidebooks? A list of "schools with good Environmental Studies/Politics/Underwater Basket-Weaving majors?" Finding a school DC likes and building out based on what schools are similar?

+1. Many, including Fiskes, have cross admit lists. Say my kid toured UVA, WM, a SLAC and VT— close, easy to research and known quantities. And WM was a strong first, followed by the SLACs why sis she like them— size, atmosphere, etc. what are their cross admits. Check several places.

I like Niche. Not for the pure rankings. But because they also like the 3-4 years students most use to describe the school atmosphere. And IMO, they are often spot on. It helps distinquish between the schools where students say, “work hard Party hard” and”quirky but kind”. And they Niche individual majors. No, I’m not sending a kid any where because of a niche ranking. But if you have Chemistry kid, what does niche rank as the top 50 schools. Any we haven’t considered. Then double check the department and especially outcomes. Some publish destinations. I’ve also had my kid contact school and asked for for department placement over the past 5 years. They have it. Dig into the CDS on all sorts of things, especially ED admissions, size of merit aid options, Etc. And yes, I want my kid to have a decent chance of graduating in 4 years with a standard major (as opposed to a dual degree or BA an MA, JD, MD.

It takes legwork and research. But even before the rankings change, I didn’t believe a #20 school was always better than a#50 for my kid. Now, I really don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are 2024 US News rankings making DC rethink college list or early applications?

Same colleges get reshuffled every year, go for ones always in top tier, no matter if they are 10th or 15th this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We started by defining what my kid wanted:Southern, medium to large school, excellent academics, decent football/spectator sports and Greek life.

This was the initial list, in no particular order: Florida, UNC, UVA, Duke, Vandy, Emory, Texas, Wake Forest, Davidson, Clemson. Duke came off because no one gets in from their school, and Davidson was deemed too small. Emory moved to the bottom because they didn’t like the social scene but stayed on list because of excellent pre med. Ultimately all schools applied to, other than Clemson, had a medical school and hospital, which was a nice plus since student is starting out premed.

Are you trying to claim that this list of schools had nothing to do with rankings? They are all very highly ranked schools...and you omitted hundreds of other schools that fit your criteria...and you have a school like Emory that has no football and really not great spectator sports (according to our tour guide)...but it is ranked highly!

We didn’t need to go to US News to be aware of the existence of these schools. What a strange comment. You can search by size and location on Naviance, College kick start, etc. . . Our student had the stats to be competitive at all these schools, we didn’t have to seek out schools we weren’t familiar with.

And yes, no football is one of the reasons Emory went to the bottom of the list but it didn’t seem an important enough factor to rule it out entirely. It isn’t the school my student is attending.

It is not a strange comment...you literally selected only highly-rated schools. Emory and Davidson have really no business being on the list based on the criteria you purport to want. You mention stats to get into the schools...if you didn't care about rankings, you would have added lots of other schools that accept 90%+ of their students. Why isn't ECU on your list...why isn't Charlotte on your list..why aren't literally 100+ other schools on your list?

Are you now claiming your college research is only limited to schools that you can think of on the top of your head?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We started by defining what my kid wanted:Southern, medium to large school, excellent academics, decent football/spectator sports and Greek life.

This was the initial list, in no particular order: Florida, UNC, UVA, Duke, Vandy, Emory, Texas, Wake Forest, Davidson, Clemson. Duke came off because no one gets in from their school, and Davidson was deemed too small. Emory moved to the bottom because they didn’t like the social scene but stayed on list because of excellent pre med. Ultimately all schools applied to, other than Clemson, had a medical school and hospital, which was a nice plus since student is starting out premed.

Are you trying to claim that this list of schools had nothing to do with rankings? They are all very highly ranked schools...and you omitted hundreds of other schools that fit your criteria...and you have a school like Emory that has no football and really not great spectator sports (according to our tour guide)...but it is ranked highly!

We didn’t need to go to US News to be aware of the existence of these schools. What a strange comment. You can search by size and location on Naviance, College kick start, etc. . . Our student had the stats to be competitive at all these schools, we didn’t have to seek out schools we weren’t familiar with.

And yes, no football is one of the reasons Emory went to the bottom of the list but it didn’t seem an important enough factor to rule it out entirely. It isn’t the school my student is attending.

It is not a strange comment...you literally selected only highly-rated schools. Emory and Davidson have really no business being on the list based on the criteria you purport to want. You mention stats to get into the schools...if you didn't care about rankings, you would have added lots of other schools that accept 90%+ of their students. Why isn't ECU on your list...why isn't Charlotte on your list..why aren't literally 100+ other schools on your list?

Are you now claiming your college research is only limited to schools that you can think of on the top of your head?

What a weirdo you are. Please tell me you have better things to do with your time than pick apart some stranger’s explanation of how their kid picked which schools to apply to, posted in an attempt to be helpful to others.

It’s not 1985 anymore, people use resources like Naviance, College Kickstart, College Vine, etc. . .because we can now get recommendation based on our kid’s individual statistics and criteria. These are the resources being promoted by local high schools, whether public or private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, here is a question for all those who claim the rankings have no impact on your college decision.

How do you even come up with a list from the start? If your kid is generally just interested in a common major...say finance, CS, mechanical engineering, political science...how do you come up with your list of say 30 schools (to start)?

Is there some easy way to find out class sizes by school and all these other criteria you espouse? Won't that search still result in hundreds of schools that meet those criteria? Are you limiting geographic search so that the first cut is manageable?

Putting aside the overall USNews rankings...are the rankings by Major/Specialty done by the same criteria as the list as a whole, or are those more "honest" rankings of the quality of the program?

I don't disagree that the ultimate decision is not based on the rankings...but again, how do you come up with your initial list of 30 schools without at least looking at the top 150 schools as determined by USNews?

My kid wants to go to a women’s college, that sets an easy filtering parameter. That’s the right fit in my opinion for her interests and personality. Pretty much every school in that genre is good. Those get looked at first.

So we are looking at those plus our in-state excellent Virginia institutions for price protection. Again, hard to go wrong.

It adds up to around 20-30 schools for the first round of sorting.

For this approach to work your kid has to actually be interested in stuff, so talk to them and really try to find out. Ask good questions. Why do they like what they like? What are they interested in learning? What do they need?

They like business? Okay! What aspect? Entrepreneurship? Finance/IB? Working at a big corporation? Innovation? Management? Sales? International trade?

They like CS? Okay! What aspect? Languages? Theory? Applied tech? Machine learning/AI? Robotics? Encryption? Fintech?

There are interesting schools with strengths in all of these areas, and they differ. They may be ranked generically all over the place but very well regarded in their specific niche. If you want to manage ships go to SUNY Maritime or the Merchant Marine Academy, not Princeton.

For example, for Product Design there are very strong programs at Stanford, MIT… and RISD. Fine-tuning the WHY and the WHAT DO YOU ACTUALLY WANT TO LEARN will reveal which program is right.

Where is FIT ranked? What’s the average SAT? Who cares! But in the fashion world it’s very important. If you want to learn how to do that kind of work and make the right connections that’s the only place to be.

“You have very high grades and test scores” is not an interest or a field of study.

So...who determined the Product Design programs were strong at Stanford, MIT, RISD, etc.? Did you independently go through their course curriculums, along with hundreds of other schools that offer Product Design...or did you look at some "rankings" to figure that out?

Let's take CS...so if my kid is interested in Machine Learning, there are literally hundreds of schools that offer Machine Learning...is one supposed to go through each program on their own to determine which are worthwhile...or like most people...are you now looking at rankings of those programs?

I just think it is hypocritical for people to say they don't look at rankings at all.

PP here, I’ve worked closely in the past with successful Innovation and Design firms on projects and took notice of where they hire from and where they look to for intelligence on the subject. I’ve also had people I respect directly tell me to engage with these specific programs when I needed advice on problems/issues.

If someone very successful in their field is telling me “I really respect this school/program, they are smart, they add a lot of value” that holds more weight with me than a defunct news magazine.

Sorting is also a lot easier if you actually know what you are looking for.

First step is figure out what you/child actually want. If your kid does not know yet what they want it’s okay, time to take a journey of discovery together.

Start with big question like is Greek life appealing or not? City or rural? Public or private?

Above poster who listed that their kid wanted “Southern, Greek, big, sports” did great, they had the “what kind of college lifestyle do you want” conversation and then you can fine tune with “well what kind of program do you want”? Premed! Sure thing, let’s see who does that well and has a hospital attached.

If there are “hundreds” of schools doing Subject X and employers don’t strongly care which program you went to and leaders in the field went all over the place for school then the market is sending a signal that it’s a commodity program and it doesn’t really matter what school you learn it at, so go wherever it’s cheapest and offers the favored lifestyle.

I don't understand why it is so hard for folks to admit they use the rankings in some form. If you do a wide search for Southern, Greek, big (what's big?), sports (which sports...all sports?), Premed...you will get many, many results. This is if you are truly open to the results.

So, tell me how does someone independently determine "who does Premed well"? Ok, so I will now ask all the doctors I know...and they will send me to the same schools that are highly ranked in Premed by USNews or another ranking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would be so silly if they did. The college did not change since last week.

You people REALLY give USNWR too much power

Are you sure the college didn’t change? I’m not sure about that all. Colleges clearly care about the rankings ( eg some send out letters / essentially press releases exhaling why they fell in the ranking and why it’s wrong). So, with the new ranking methodology, they could change the admission criteria to improve. I think that’s a real possibility which then would then imply colleges did indeed change since last week. You don’t think USNWR has that much power and I REALLY hope your right, but I’m not sure AT ALL.

No, I do not think CWRU or WM or Chicago or Wake or Tulane or any large publics shooting up the charts changed much in academic quality or student experience in one year. The question is will they play the new USNWR a raking game and change over the next 5-10 years. You can get some idea by their public statements about rankings. I think some may just pull out. And it’s a reasonable question for a parent to ask at a visit— are you/how are you adjusting admissions and undergrad experience in light of the new USNRW ranking system. Some colleges will list factors they are considering tweaking. Some will say, we aren’t. We feel good about the academics and community we have and aren’t puppets dancing on USNWR strings.

If the college has gone down in the rankings, definitely find a written statement or ask the question. Because it would affect your kid in admissions, class size if that’s out the window and the social fit of the campus. If they like it now, how would they feel if it moved to a model that squeezes out the donut hole and “gets some aid” middle. Are more of full pays are needed to support more Pell grant kids. Does that mean aid is shifted from middle class to pell grants and first Gen as a school policy?

Ask the questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We started by defining what my kid wanted:Southern, medium to large school, excellent academics, decent football/spectator sports and Greek life.

This was the initial list, in no particular order: Florida, UNC, UVA, Duke, Vandy, Emory, Texas, Wake Forest, Davidson, Clemson. Duke came off because no one gets in from their school, and Davidson was deemed too small. Emory moved to the bottom because they didn’t like the social scene but stayed on list because of excellent pre med. Ultimately all schools applied to, other than Clemson, had a medical school and hospital, which was a nice plus since student is starting out premed.

Are you trying to claim that this list of schools had nothing to do with rankings? They are all very highly ranked schools...and you omitted hundreds of other schools that fit your criteria...and you have a school like Emory that has no football and really not great spectator sports (according to our tour guide)...but it is ranked highly!

We didn’t need to go to US News to be aware of the existence of these schools. What a strange comment. You can search by size and location on Naviance, College kick start, etc. . . Our student had the stats to be competitive at all these schools, we didn’t have to seek out schools we weren’t familiar with.

And yes, no football is one of the reasons Emory went to the bottom of the list but it didn’t seem an important enough factor to rule it out entirely. It isn’t the school my student is attending.

It is not a strange comment...you literally selected only highly-rated schools. Emory and Davidson have really no business being on the list based on the criteria you purport to want. You mention stats to get into the schools...if you didn't care about rankings, you would have added lots of other schools that accept 90%+ of their students. Why isn't ECU on your list...why isn't Charlotte on your list..why aren't literally 100+ other schools on your list?

Are you now claiming your college research is only limited to schools that you can think of on the top of your head?

What a weirdo you are. Please tell me you have better things to do with your time than pick apart some stranger’s explanation of how their kid picked which schools to apply to, posted in an attempt to be helpful to others.

It’s not 1985 anymore, people use resources like Naviance, College Kickstart, College Vine, etc. . .because we can now get recommendation based on our kid’s individual statistics and criteria. These are the resources being promoted by local high schools, whether public or private.

Hmmm...then why go through so much effort when you could have just looked at universities that rank in the top 100 by USNews...PP didn't surface any "hidden gems"...sure, it's just a coincidence they all rank fairly high. In fact, if you remove Clemson you can make your search even more efficient and only look at the Top 50 schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, here is a question for all those who claim the rankings have no impact on your college decision.

How do you even come up with a list from the start? If your kid is generally just interested in a common major...say finance, CS, mechanical engineering, political science...how do you come up with your list of say 30 schools (to start)?

Is there some easy way to find out class sizes by school and all these other criteria you espouse? Won't that search still result in hundreds of schools that meet those criteria? Are you limiting geographic search so that the first cut is manageable?

Putting aside the overall USNews rankings...are the rankings by Major/Specialty done by the same criteria as the list as a whole, or are those more "honest" rankings of the quality of the program?

I don't disagree that the ultimate decision is not based on the rankings...but again, how do you come up with your initial list of 30 schools without at least looking at the top 150 schools as determined by USNews?

My kid wants to go to a women’s college, that sets an easy filtering parameter. That’s the right fit in my opinion for her interests and personality. Pretty much every school in that genre is good. Those get looked at first.

So we are looking at those plus our in-state excellent Virginia institutions for price protection. Again, hard to go wrong.

It adds up to around 20-30 schools for the first round of sorting.

For this approach to work your kid has to actually be interested in stuff, so talk to them and really try to find out. Ask good questions. Why do they like what they like? What are they interested in learning? What do they need?

They like business? Okay! What aspect? Entrepreneurship? Finance/IB? Working at a big corporation? Innovation? Management? Sales? International trade?

They like CS? Okay! What aspect? Languages? Theory? Applied tech? Machine learning/AI? Robotics? Encryption? Fintech?

There are interesting schools with strengths in all of these areas, and they differ. They may be ranked generically all over the place but very well regarded in their specific niche. If you want to manage ships go to SUNY Maritime or the Merchant Marine Academy, not Princeton.

For example, for Product Design there are very strong programs at Stanford, MIT… and RISD. Fine-tuning the WHY and the WHAT DO YOU ACTUALLY WANT TO LEARN will reveal which program is right.

Where is FIT ranked? What’s the average SAT? Who cares! But in the fashion world it’s very important. If you want to learn how to do that kind of work and make the right connections that’s the only place to be.

“You have very high grades and test scores” is not an interest or a field of study.

So...who determined the Product Design programs were strong at Stanford, MIT, RISD, etc.? Did you independently go through their course curriculums, along with hundreds of other schools that offer Product Design...or did you look at some "rankings" to figure that out?

Let's take CS...so if my kid is interested in Machine Learning, there are literally hundreds of schools that offer Machine Learning...is one supposed to go through each program on their own to determine which are worthwhile...or like most people...are you now looking at rankings of those programs?

I just think it is hypocritical for people to say they don't look at rankings at all.

PP here, I’ve worked closely in the past with successful Innovation and Design firms on projects and took notice of where they hire from and where they look to for intelligence on the subject. I’ve also had people I respect directly tell me to engage with these specific programs when I needed advice on problems/issues.

If someone very successful in their field is telling me “I really respect this school/program, they are smart, they add a lot of value” that holds more weight with me than a defunct news magazine.

Sorting is also a lot easier if you actually know what you are looking for.

First step is figure out what you/child actually want. If your kid does not know yet what they want it’s okay, time to take a journey of discovery together.

Start with big question like is Greek life appealing or not? City or rural? Public or private?

Above poster who listed that their kid wanted “Southern, Greek, big, sports” did great, they had the “what kind of college lifestyle do you want” conversation and then you can fine tune with “well what kind of program do you want”? Premed! Sure thing, let’s see who does that well and has a hospital attached.

If there are “hundreds” of schools doing Subject X and employers don’t strongly care which program you went to and leaders in the field went all over the place for school then the market is sending a signal that it’s a commodity program and it doesn’t really matter what school you learn it at, so go wherever it’s cheapest and offers the favored lifestyle.

I don't understand why it is so hard for folks to admit they use the rankings in some form. If you do a wide search for Southern, Greek, big (what's big?), sports (which sports...all sports?), Premed...you will get many, many results. This is if you are truly open to the results.

So, tell me how does someone independently determine "who does Premed well"? Ok, so I will now ask all the doctors I know...and they will send me to the same schools that are highly ranked in Premed by USNews or another ranking.

Does pre-med well is actually one of the easiest metrics to nail down. How many kids in the last 5 years applied to med school? Realizing that taking a year before Med school is somewhat common. What percentage were admitted? What med schools did they attend?

Many schools have a per-med advisor with this info. Otherwise, career office has it. No premed kid in my family, but I imagine there are 3rd party lists of top MD producers, and of % applicants who are admitted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We started by defining what my kid wanted:Southern, medium to large school, excellent academics, decent football/spectator sports and Greek life.

This was the initial list, in no particular order: Florida, UNC, UVA, Duke, Vandy, Emory, Texas, Wake Forest, Davidson, Clemson. Duke came off because no one gets in from their school, and Davidson was deemed too small. Emory moved to the bottom because they didn’t like the social scene but stayed on list because of excellent pre med. Ultimately all schools applied to, other than Clemson, had a medical school and hospital, which was a nice plus since student is starting out premed.

Are you trying to claim that this list of schools had nothing to do with rankings? They are all very highly ranked schools...and you omitted hundreds of other schools that fit your criteria...and you have a school like Emory that has no football and really not great spectator sports (according to our tour guide)...but it is ranked highly!

We didn’t need to go to US News to be aware of the existence of these schools. What a strange comment. You can search by size and location on Naviance, College kick start, etc. . . Our student had the stats to be competitive at all these schools, we didn’t have to seek out schools we weren’t familiar with.

And yes, no football is one of the reasons Emory went to the bottom of the list but it didn’t seem an important enough factor to rule it out entirely. It isn’t the school my student is attending.

It is not a strange comment...you literally selected only highly-rated schools. Emory and Davidson have really no business being on the list based on the criteria you purport to want. You mention stats to get into the schools...if you didn't care about rankings, you would have added lots of other schools that accept 90%+ of their students. Why isn't ECU on your list...why isn't Charlotte on your list..why aren't literally 100+ other schools on your list?

Are you now claiming your college research is only limited to schools that you can think of on the top of your head?

What a weirdo you are. Please tell me you have better things to do with your time than pick apart some stranger’s explanation of how their kid picked which schools to apply to, posted in an attempt to be helpful to others.

It’s not 1985 anymore, people use resources like Naviance, College Kickstart, College Vine, etc. . .because we can now get recommendation based on our kid’s individual statistics and criteria. These are the resources being promoted by local high schools, whether public or private.

Hmmm...then why go through so much effort when you could have just looked at universities that rank in the top 100 by USNews...PP didn't surface any "hidden gems"...sure, it's just a coincidence they all rank fairly high. In fact, if you remove Clemson you can make your search even more efficient and only look at the Top 50 schools.

Get a hobby, you really can’t let this go. So so odd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We started by defining what my kid wanted:Southern, medium to large school, excellent academics, decent football/spectator sports and Greek life.

This was the initial list, in no particular order: Florida, UNC, UVA, Duke, Vandy, Emory, Texas, Wake Forest, Davidson, Clemson. Duke came off because no one gets in from their school, and Davidson was deemed too small. Emory moved to the bottom because they didn’t like the social scene but stayed on list because of excellent pre med. Ultimately all schools applied to, other than Clemson, had a medical school and hospital, which was a nice plus since student is starting out premed.

Are you trying to claim that this list of schools had nothing to do with rankings? They are all very highly ranked schools...and you omitted hundreds of other schools that fit your criteria...and you have a school like Emory that has no football and really not great spectator sports (according to our tour guide)...but it is ranked highly!

We didn’t need to go to US News to be aware of the existence of these schools. What a strange comment. You can search by size and location on Naviance, College kick start, etc. . . Our student had the stats to be competitive at all these schools, we didn’t have to seek out schools we weren’t familiar with.

And yes, no football is one of the reasons Emory went to the bottom of the list but it didn’t seem an important enough factor to rule it out entirely. It isn’t the school my student is attending.

It is not a strange comment...you literally selected only highly-rated schools. Emory and Davidson have really no business being on the list based on the criteria you purport to want. You mention stats to get into the schools...if you didn't care about rankings, you would have added lots of other schools that accept 90%+ of their students. Why isn't ECU on your list...why isn't Charlotte on your list..why aren't literally 100+ other schools on your list?

Are you now claiming your college research is only limited to schools that you can think of on the top of your head?

What a weirdo you are. Please tell me you have better things to do with your time than pick apart some stranger’s explanation of how their kid picked which schools to apply to, posted in an attempt to be helpful to others.

It’s not 1985 anymore, people use resources like Naviance, College Kickstart, College Vine, etc. . .because we can now get recommendation based on our kid’s individual statistics and criteria. These are the resources being promoted by local high schools, whether public or private.

Hmmm...then why go through so much effort when you could have just looked at universities that rank in the top 100 by USNews...PP didn't surface any "hidden gems"...sure, it's just a coincidence they all rank fairly high. In fact, if you remove Clemson you can make your search even more efficient and only look at the Top 50 schools.

Get a hobby, you really can’t let this go. So so odd.

Back at you...you keep responding.

[Anonymous]

No

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We started by defining what my kid wanted:Southern, medium to large school, excellent academics, decent football/spectator sports and Greek life.

This was the initial list, in no particular order: Florida, UNC, UVA, Duke, Vandy, Emory, Texas, Wake Forest, Davidson, Clemson. Duke came off because no one gets in from their school, and Davidson was deemed too small. Emory moved to the bottom because they didn’t like the social scene but stayed on list because of excellent pre med. Ultimately all schools applied to, other than Clemson, had a medical school and hospital, which was a nice plus since student is starting out premed.

Are you trying to claim that this list of schools had nothing to do with rankings? They are all very highly ranked schools...and you omitted hundreds of other schools that fit your criteria...and you have a school like Emory that has no football and really not great spectator sports (according to our tour guide)...but it is ranked highly!

We didn’t need to go to US News to be aware of the existence of these schools. What a strange comment. You can search by size and location on Naviance, College kick start, etc. . . Our student had the stats to be competitive at all these schools, we didn’t have to seek out schools we weren’t familiar with.

And yes, no football is one of the reasons Emory went to the bottom of the list but it didn’t seem an important enough factor to rule it out entirely. It isn’t the school my student is attending.

It is not a strange comment...you literally selected only highly-rated schools. Emory and Davidson have really no business being on the list based on the criteria you purport to want. You mention stats to get into the schools...if you didn't care about rankings, you would have added lots of other schools that accept 90%+ of their students. Why isn't ECU on your list...why isn't Charlotte on your list..why aren't literally 100+ other schools on your list?

Are you now claiming your college research is only limited to schools that you can think of on the top of your head?

What a weirdo you are. Please tell me you have better things to do with your time than pick apart some stranger’s explanation of how their kid picked which schools to apply to, posted in an attempt to be helpful to others.

It’s not 1985 anymore, people use resources like Naviance, College Kickstart, College Vine, etc. . .because we can now get recommendation based on our kid’s individual statistics and criteria. These are the resources being promoted by local high schools, whether public or private.

Hmmm...then why go through so much effort when you could have just looked at universities that rank in the top 100 by USNews...PP didn't surface any "hidden gems"...sure, it's just a coincidence they all rank fairly high. In fact, if you remove Clemson you can make your search even more efficient and only look at the Top 50 schools.

There are only so many D1 football schools.

Based on OPs asks, I would have added TN, NS State, UGA and maybe GT. But they are also all decently ranked. Notice PP skipped the SEC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:So, here is a question for all those who claim the rankings have no impact on your college decision.

How do you even come up with a list from the start? If your kid is generally just interested in a common major...say finance, CS, mechanical engineering, political science...how do you come up with your list of say 30 schools (to start)?

Is there some easy way to find out class sizes by school and all these other criteria you espouse? Won't that search still result in hundreds of schools that meet those criteria? Are you limiting geographic search so that the first cut is manageable?

Putting aside the overall USNews rankings...are the rankings by Major/Specialty done by the same criteria as the list as a whole, or are those more "honest" rankings of the quality of the program?

I don't disagree that the ultimate decision is not based on the rankings...but again, how do you come up with your initial list of 30 schools without at least looking at the top 150 schools as determined by USNews?

My kid wants to go to a women’s college, that sets an easy filtering parameter. That’s the right fit in my opinion for her interests and personality. Pretty much every school in that genre is good. Those get looked at first.

So we are looking at those plus our in-state excellent Virginia institutions for price protection. Again, hard to go wrong.

It adds up to around 20-30 schools for the first round of sorting.

For this approach to work your kid has to actually be interested in stuff, so talk to them and really try to find out. Ask good questions. Why do they like what they like? What are they interested in learning? What do they need?

They like business? Okay! What aspect? Entrepreneurship? Finance/IB? Working at a big corporation? Innovation? Management? Sales? International trade?

They like CS? Okay! What aspect? Languages? Theory? Applied tech? Machine learning/AI? Robotics? Encryption? Fintech?

There are interesting schools with strengths in all of these areas, and they differ. They may be ranked generically all over the place but very well regarded in their specific niche. If you want to manage ships go to SUNY Maritime or the Merchant Marine Academy, not Princeton.

For example, for Product Design there are very strong programs at Stanford, MIT… and RISD. Fine-tuning the WHY and the WHAT DO YOU ACTUALLY WANT TO LEARN will reveal which program is right.

Where is FIT ranked? What’s the average SAT? Who cares! But in the fashion world it’s very important. If you want to learn how to do that kind of work and make the right connections that’s the only place to be.

“You have very high grades and test scores” is not an interest or a field of study.

So...who determined the Product Design programs were strong at Stanford, MIT, RISD, etc.? Did you independently go through their course curriculums, along with hundreds of other schools that offer Product Design...or did you look at some "rankings" to figure that out?

Let's take CS...so if my kid is interested in Machine Learning, there are literally hundreds of schools that offer Machine Learning...is one supposed to go through each program on their own to determine which are worthwhile...or like most people...are you now looking at rankings of those programs?

I just think it is hypocritical for people to say they don't look at rankings at all.

PP here, I’ve worked closely in the past with successful Innovation and Design firms on projects and took notice of where they hire from and where they look to for intelligence on the subject. I’ve also had people I respect directly tell me to engage with these specific programs when I needed advice on problems/issues.

If someone very successful in their field is telling me “I really respect this school/program, they are smart, they add a lot of value” that holds more weight with me than a defunct news magazine.

Sorting is also a lot easier if you actually know what you are looking for.

First step is figure out what you/child actually want. If your kid does not know yet what they want it’s okay, time to take a journey of discovery together.

Start with big question like is Greek life appealing or not? City or rural? Public or private?

Above poster who listed that their kid wanted “Southern, Greek, big, sports” did great, they had the “what kind of college lifestyle do you want” conversation and then you can fine tune with “well what kind of program do you want”? Premed! Sure thing, let’s see who does that well and has a hospital attached.

If there are “hundreds” of schools doing Subject X and employers don’t strongly care which program you went to and leaders in the field went all over the place for school then the market is sending a signal that it’s a commodity program and it doesn’t really matter what school you learn it at, so go wherever it’s cheapest and offers the favored lifestyle.

I don't understand why it is so hard for folks to admit they use the rankings in some form. If you do a wide search for Southern, Greek, big (what's big?), sports (which sports...all sports?), Premed...you will get many, many results. This is if you are truly open to the results.

So, tell me how does someone independently determine "who does Premed well"? Ok, so I will now ask all the doctors I know...and they will send me to the same schools that are highly ranked in Premed by USNews or another ranking.

Does pre-med well is actually one of the easiest metrics to nail down. How many kids in the last 5 years applied to med school? Realizing that taking a year before Med school is somewhat common. What percentage were admitted? What med schools did they attend?

Many schools have a per-med advisor with this info. Otherwise, career office has it. No premed kid in my family, but I imagine there are 3rd party lists of top MD producers, and of % applicants who are admitted.

So...do you think the USNews ranking of PreMed programs would rank schools highly where their kids do terribly for Med School Admissions? Why go through all that effort...when you can just look at the USNews rankings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FFS, no. The biggest problem with college rankings is SOMEONE else is telling you WHAT is important and HOW important in evaluating a college It’s utter nonsense, and a paradigm of intellectual laziness.

As an example, USNWR tweaked it to favor Pell grant admissions and graduation. Laudable goals for universities, to be sure. But how many in the DCUM world really care about that as far as their own kid’s concerns? If, eg, Harvard were to drop in this metric, people on DCUM wouldn’t want Harvard any less.

No, instead, what you’re doing is using rankings to justify schools you already liked or to avoid ones you don’t for whatever reason. Northeastern climbs but they are “gaming the system” or “cheating”. Chicago falls and they “never deserved to be that high anyway”.

The biggest thing most of you care about is how it will sound to your peer group. Just start being honest with yourself; you’ll be happier for it.

Well said