swimming up someone nvsl

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I’m at a d2 pool that does this and I guarantee the majority of the team doesn’t like this. Would love an open vote. Of course some do. But no one has ever asked me about it. And my kid doesn’t lose a spot. But I see how it affects those that do

Almost every d2 pool has done it this year. It's not unusual at all for the higher divisions.

Keep in mind that for every older slower kid that doesn't get to swim in an A meet, a younger faster kid does. I wouldn't want to be the one to explain to the faster younger kid and her parents that she doesn't get to swim because a slower swimmer's mommy complained.

Uh, the faster kid can swim in their OWN age group. It's why we have age groups.

Not if the others in the kid’s age group are faster. It’s entirely possible that the kid isn’t the fastest in their own age group but is faster than the third available swimmer in the next age group up, especially if the next age group has fewer swimmers. Our team has done swim ups in that situation and our team is always in a division in the teens.

Then why have age group designations at all?

Do you really not understand this? In general, age group designations make competition fair to younger kids- in the same way that gender groups in general make competition fair to females. It is the less common situation that a kid in a younger age group can beat kids in older age groups.
To explain the point the top 3 9-10 year old freestylers are in the meet. The top 2 11-12 freestylers are in the meet. The 4th 9-10 year old freestyler is faster than the 3 11-12 freestyler. The 4th 9-10 is only swimming if she gets the 11-12 spot. It is completely fair to swim her up to that spot. There is nothing tricky or nefarious about it.

Not a question of tricky or nefarious. No one is saying that. Irrespective of whether the rules permit swimming up, the third-fastest 11-12 should be swimming in the 11-12 race. He/she has earned that chance by being in the top three in his/her age group. Swimming up a faster 9-10 is a great way to get that 11-12 kid to quit the team.

Adding: More broadly, this comes back to the fundamental question of whether you see summer swim as being more (a) about winning at all costs or (b) kids competing and having fun. I think most of us in the mid- and lower divisions would say the answer is “(b).”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are a small team in MCSL. My kid swims the 9-10 age group because she’s good and can get 4-6 points for coming in 1st or 2nd.
Her same aged friend doesn’t qualify for A meets in that age group. The 11-12 group doesn’t have enough swimmers so are swims up, it’s a way for her to still participate and earns a few ( minimal) points for the team.

That’s how it works in our team too. This year 11-12 boys is very crowded with decent swimmers and 13-14 boys is almost empty. One of the competitive but slower boys who wouldn’t have got to swim at an A meet because of the 11-12 miners this year has been regularly aged up to fill a vacant 13-14 spot and get points for the team. Helped everyone all around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I’m at a d2 pool that does this and I guarantee the majority of the team doesn’t like this. Would love an open vote. Of course some do. But no one has ever asked me about it. And my kid doesn’t lose a spot. But I see how it affects those that do

Almost every d2 pool has done it this year. It's not unusual at all for the higher divisions.

Keep in mind that for every older slower kid that doesn't get to swim in an A meet, a younger faster kid does. I wouldn't want to be the one to explain to the faster younger kid and her parents that she doesn't get to swim because a slower swimmer's mommy complained.

Uh, the faster kid can swim in their OWN age group. It's why we have age groups.

Not if the others in the kid’s age group are faster. It’s entirely possible that the kid isn’t the fastest in their own age group but is faster than the third available swimmer in the next age group up, especially if the next age group has fewer swimmers. Our team has done swim ups in that situation and our team is always in a division in the teens.

Then why have age group designations at all?

Do you really not understand this? In general, age group designations make competition fair to younger kids- in the same way that gender groups in general make competition fair to females. It is the less common situation that a kid in a younger age group can beat kids in older age groups.
To explain the point the top 3 9-10 year old freestylers are in the meet. The top 2 11-12 freestylers are in the meet. The 4th 9-10 year old freestyler is faster than the 3 11-12 freestyler. The 4th 9-10 is only swimming if she gets the 11-12 spot. It is completely fair to swim her up to that spot. There is nothing tricky or nefarious about it.

Not a question of tricky or nefarious. No one is saying that. Irrespective of whether the rules permit swimming up, the third-fastest 11-12 should be swimming in the 11-12 race. He/she has earned that chance by being in the top three in his/her age group. Swimming up a faster 9-10 is a great way to get that 11-12 kid to quit the team.

Zooming out a bit, is it better for a fast 9-10 kid to quit the team or a slow 11-12 kid to quit the team?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I’m at a d2 pool that does this and I guarantee the majority of the team doesn’t like this. Would love an open vote. Of course some do. But no one has ever asked me about it. And my kid doesn’t lose a spot. But I see how it affects those that do

Almost every d2 pool has done it this year. It's not unusual at all for the higher divisions.

Keep in mind that for every older slower kid that doesn't get to swim in an A meet, a younger faster kid does. I wouldn't want to be the one to explain to the faster younger kid and her parents that she doesn't get to swim because a slower swimmer's mommy complained.

Uh, the faster kid can swim in their OWN age group. It's why we have age groups.

Not if the others in the kid’s age group are faster. It’s entirely possible that the kid isn’t the fastest in their own age group but is faster than the third available swimmer in the next age group up, especially if the next age group has fewer swimmers. Our team has done swim ups in that situation and our team is always in a division in the teens.

Then why have age group designations at all?

Do you really not understand this? In general, age group designations make competition fair to younger kids- in the same way that gender groups in general make competition fair to females. It is the less common situation that a kid in a younger age group can beat kids in older age groups.
To explain the point the top 3 9-10 year old freestylers are in the meet. The top 2 11-12 freestylers are in the meet. The 4th 9-10 year old freestyler is faster than the 3 11-12 freestyler. The 4th 9-10 is only swimming if she gets the 11-12 spot. It is completely fair to swim her up to that spot. There is nothing tricky or nefarious about it.

Not a question of tricky or nefarious. No one is saying that. Irrespective of whether the rules permit swimming up, the third-fastest 11-12 should be swimming in the 11-12 race. He/she has earned that chance by being in the top three in his/her age group. Swimming up a faster 9-10 is a great way to get that 11-12 kid to quit the team.

Zooming out a bit, is it better for a fast 9-10 kid to quit the team or a slow 11-12 kid to quit the team?

Different poster—the answer is that it’s better to just be clear with everyone what the policy is and let them decide if they like it or not.

Personally, I like treating the age groups as 8U, 10u, 12u, 15u and 18u. But it might not be everyone’s cup of tea. Just be consistent and open about whatever your team does if you’re a coach or rep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I’m at a d2 pool that does this and I guarantee the majority of the team doesn’t like this. Would love an open vote. Of course some do. But no one has ever asked me about it. And my kid doesn’t lose a spot. But I see how it affects those that do

Almost every d2 pool has done it this year. It's not unusual at all for the higher divisions.

Keep in mind that for every older slower kid that doesn't get to swim in an A meet, a younger faster kid does. I wouldn't want to be the one to explain to the faster younger kid and her parents that she doesn't get to swim because a slower swimmer's mommy complained.

Uh, the faster kid can swim in their OWN age group. It's why we have age groups.

Not if the others in the kid’s age group are faster. It’s entirely possible that the kid isn’t the fastest in their own age group but is faster than the third available swimmer in the next age group up, especially if the next age group has fewer swimmers. Our team has done swim ups in that situation and our team is always in a division in the teens.

Then why have age group designations at all?

Do you really not understand this? In general, age group designations make competition fair to younger kids- in the same way that gender groups in general make competition fair to females. It is the less common situation that a kid in a younger age group can beat kids in older age groups.
To explain the point the top 3 9-10 year old freestylers are in the meet. The top 2 11-12 freestylers are in the meet. The 4th 9-10 year old freestyler is faster than the 3 11-12 freestyler. The 4th 9-10 is only swimming if she gets the 11-12 spot. It is completely fair to swim her up to that spot. There is nothing tricky or nefarious about it.

Not a question of tricky or nefarious. No one is saying that. Irrespective of whether the rules permit swimming up, the third-fastest 11-12 should be swimming in the 11-12 race. He/she has earned that chance by being in the top three in his/her age group. Swimming up a faster 9-10 is a great way to get that 11-12 kid to quit the team.

Zooming out a bit, is it better for a fast 9-10 kid to quit the team or a slow 11-12 kid to quit the team?

Different poster—the answer is that it’s better to just be clear with everyone what the policy is and let them decide if they like it or not.

Personally, I like treating the age groups as 8U, 10u, 12u, 15u and 18u. But it might not be everyone’s cup of tea. Just be consistent and open about whatever your team does if you’re a coach or rep.

Good answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I’m at a d2 pool that does this and I guarantee the majority of the team doesn’t like this. Would love an open vote. Of course some do. But no one has ever asked me about it. And my kid doesn’t lose a spot. But I see how it affects those that do

Almost every d2 pool has done it this year. It's not unusual at all for the higher divisions.

Keep in mind that for every older slower kid that doesn't get to swim in an A meet, a younger faster kid does. I wouldn't want to be the one to explain to the faster younger kid and her parents that she doesn't get to swim because a slower swimmer's mommy complained.

Uh, the faster kid can swim in their OWN age group. It's why we have age groups.

Not if the others in the kid’s age group are faster. It’s entirely possible that the kid isn’t the fastest in their own age group but is faster than the third available swimmer in the next age group up, especially if the next age group has fewer swimmers. Our team has done swim ups in that situation and our team is always in a division in the teens.

Then why have age group designations at all?

Do you really not understand this? In general, age group designations make competition fair to younger kids- in the same way that gender groups in general make competition fair to females. It is the less common situation that a kid in a younger age group can beat kids in older age groups.
To explain the point the top 3 9-10 year old freestylers are in the meet. The top 2 11-12 freestylers are in the meet. The 4th 9-10 year old freestyler is faster than the 3 11-12 freestyler. The 4th 9-10 is only swimming if she gets the 11-12 spot. It is completely fair to swim her up to that spot. There is nothing tricky or nefarious about it.

Not a question of tricky or nefarious. No one is saying that. Irrespective of whether the rules permit swimming up, the third-fastest 11-12 should be swimming in the 11-12 race. He/she has earned that chance by being in the top three in his/her age group. Swimming up a faster 9-10 is a great way to get that 11-12 kid to quit the team.

Zooming out a bit, is it better for a fast 9-10 kid to quit the team or a slow 11-12 kid to quit the team?

Fast 9-10 kid wouldn’t quit because he’s still swimming A meets as a 9-10. And the 4th fastest 9-10 likely isn’t going to quit because he’s being seeded properly for his age (ie he’s legitimately behind the other 9-10s).

[Anonymous]

So on our team we have a number of good 9-10s, really good. The bench is deep with them that they will seed a few up and still retain the points in the 9-10 bench.

We seed two of our 9-10s up in 13-14 on a regular basis to grab points. We have found that other teams often don't look at how we seed our swimmers and just go by the ladder. Often surprised about our young super fast swimmers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So on our team we have a number of good 9-10s, really good. The bench is deep with them that they will seed a few up and still retain the points in the 9-10 bench.

We seed two of our 9-10s up in 13-14 on a regular basis to grab points. We have found that other teams often don't look at how we seed our swimmers and just go by the ladder. Often surprised about our young super fast swimmers.

If you have zero available 13-14 yos with times, like literally you have gone down the entire ladder and no one that age is free, then thats fine.
Otherwise, its trashy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So on our team we have a number of good 9-10s, really good. The bench is deep with them that they will seed a few up and still retain the points in the 9-10 bench.

We seed two of our 9-10s up in 13-14 on a regular basis to grab points. We have found that other teams often don't look at how we seed our swimmers and just go by the ladder. Often surprised about our young super fast swimmers.

If you have zero available 13-14 yos with times, like literally you have gone down the entire ladder and no one that age is free, then thats fine.
Otherwise, its trashy.

Obviously the league needs to institute no slower than times for A meets. That would solve it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So on our team we have a number of good 9-10s, really good. The bench is deep with them that they will seed a few up and still retain the points in the 9-10 bench.

We seed two of our 9-10s up in 13-14 on a regular basis to grab points. We have found that other teams often don't look at how we seed our swimmers and just go by the ladder. Often surprised about our young super fast swimmers.

If you have zero available 13-14 yos with times, like literally you have gone down the entire ladder and no one that age is free, then thats fine.
Otherwise, its trashy.

Trashy is a stretch. It’s an A meet, the competitive part of summer swim, the B meets are there for everyone to be able to participate regardless of their times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I’m at a d2 pool that does this and I guarantee the majority of the team doesn’t like this. Would love an open vote. Of course some do. But no one has ever asked me about it. And my kid doesn’t lose a spot. But I see how it affects those that do

Almost every d2 pool has done it this year. It's not unusual at all for the higher divisions.

Keep in mind that for every older slower kid that doesn't get to swim in an A meet, a younger faster kid does. I wouldn't want to be the one to explain to the faster younger kid and her parents that she doesn't get to swim because a slower swimmer's mommy complained.

Uh, the faster kid can swim in their OWN age group. It's why we have age groups.

Not if the others in the kid’s age group are faster. It’s entirely possible that the kid isn’t the fastest in their own age group but is faster than the third available swimmer in the next age group up, especially if the next age group has fewer swimmers. Our team has done swim ups in that situation and our team is always in a division in the teens.

Then why have age group designations at all?

Do you really not understand this? In general, age group designations make competition fair to younger kids- in the same way that gender groups in general make competition fair to females. It is the less common situation that a kid in a younger age group can beat kids in older age groups.
To explain the point the top 3 9-10 year old freestylers are in the meet. The top 2 11-12 freestylers are in the meet. The 4th 9-10 year old freestyler is faster than the 3 11-12 freestyler. The 4th 9-10 is only swimming if she gets the 11-12 spot. It is completely fair to swim her up to that spot. There is nothing tricky or nefarious about it.

Not a question of tricky or nefarious. No one is saying that. Irrespective of whether the rules permit swimming up, the third-fastest 11-12 should be swimming in the 11-12 race. He/she has earned that chance by being in the top three in his/her age group. Swimming up a faster 9-10 is a great way to get that 11-12 kid to quit the team.

Zooming out a bit, is it better for a fast 9-10 kid to quit the team or a slow 11-12 kid to quit the team?

Different poster—the answer is that it’s better to just be clear with everyone what the policy is and let them decide if they like it or not.

Personally, I like treating the age groups as 8U, 10u, 12u, 15u and 18u. But it might not be everyone’s cup of tea. Just be consistent and open about whatever your team does if you’re a coach or rep.

Swimming is not classified like that until you hit the 15-18 age group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So on our team we have a number of good 9-10s, really good. The bench is deep with them that they will seed a few up and still retain the points in the 9-10 bench.

We seed two of our 9-10s up in 13-14 on a regular basis to grab points. We have found that other teams often don't look at how we seed our swimmers and just go by the ladder. Often surprised about our young super fast swimmers.

If you have zero available 13-14 yos with times, like literally you have gone down the entire ladder and no one that age is free, then thats fine.
Otherwise, its trashy.

Obviously the league needs to institute no slower than times for A meets. That would solve it.

That would.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So on our team we have a number of good 9-10s, really good. The bench is deep with them that they will seed a few up and still retain the points in the 9-10 bench.

We seed two of our 9-10s up in 13-14 on a regular basis to grab points. We have found that other teams often don't look at how we seed our swimmers and just go by the ladder. Often surprised about our young super fast swimmers.

If you have zero available 13-14 yos with times, like literally you have gone down the entire ladder and no one that age is free, then thats fine.
Otherwise, its trashy.

Why is it trashy? I don't understand. It is using your talent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I’m at a d2 pool that does this and I guarantee the majority of the team doesn’t like this. Would love an open vote. Of course some do. But no one has ever asked me about it. And my kid doesn’t lose a spot. But I see how it affects those that do

Almost every d2 pool has done it this year. It's not unusual at all for the higher divisions.

Keep in mind that for every older slower kid that doesn't get to swim in an A meet, a younger faster kid does. I wouldn't want to be the one to explain to the faster younger kid and her parents that she doesn't get to swim because a slower swimmer's mommy complained.

Uh, the faster kid can swim in their OWN age group. It's why we have age groups.

Not if the others in the kid’s age group are faster. It’s entirely possible that the kid isn’t the fastest in their own age group but is faster than the third available swimmer in the next age group up, especially if the next age group has fewer swimmers. Our team has done swim ups in that situation and our team is always in a division in the teens.

Then why have age group designations at all?

Do you really not understand this? In general, age group designations make competition fair to younger kids- in the same way that gender groups in general make competition fair to females. It is the less common situation that a kid in a younger age group can beat kids in older age groups.
To explain the point the top 3 9-10 year old freestylers are in the meet. The top 2 11-12 freestylers are in the meet. The 4th 9-10 year old freestyler is faster than the 3 11-12 freestyler. The 4th 9-10 is only swimming if she gets the 11-12 spot. It is completely fair to swim her up to that spot. There is nothing tricky or nefarious about it.

Not a question of tricky or nefarious. No one is saying that. Irrespective of whether the rules permit swimming up, the third-fastest 11-12 should be swimming in the 11-12 race. He/she has earned that chance by being in the top three in his/her age group. Swimming up a faster 9-10 is a great way to get that 11-12 kid to quit the team.

Or swim faster?

There is no "I" in team. Why do summer swimmer think that they are entitled to a spot just because. You don't see other sports boards saying silly things like that. They play up kids all the time and no one bats an eye.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So on our team we have a number of good 9-10s, really good. The bench is deep with them that they will seed a few up and still retain the points in the 9-10 bench.

We seed two of our 9-10s up in 13-14 on a regular basis to grab points. We have found that other teams often don't look at how we seed our swimmers and just go by the ladder. Often surprised about our young super fast swimmers.

If you have zero available 13-14 yos with times, like literally you have gone down the entire ladder and no one that age is free, then thats fine.
Otherwise, its trashy.

I don't think it's trashy; however, it should be frowned on. It's the golden child syndrome/playing favorite.