swimming up someone nvsl

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our NVSL team swims up swimmers in A meets only to fill empty lanes (when there is no one in that age group to swim the event). We would never leave off a swimmer (absent some sort of discipline issue) to swim someone up from a younger age group.

As a former team rep, I am actually surprised that some teams do that as part of strategy to win, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

I think lower division teams would follow this line of thinking and are content being a lower division team. There is an upside that A meets are like B meets where everyone participates.

I also think that a lot of teams are terrible at seeding. They seed their best and work down the line in an age group without thinking outside the box or looking at the strengths/weaknesses of the other team. There is still strategy involved in seeding. I have heard of coaches seeding a meet in 20 minutes and that says to me that they are not seeding well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. There are programs that can run hypothetical meets and optimize points that our coaches use

OP here, We would win, without moving swimmers up, but we do it anyway. I don't get the reasoning.

Are you sure you would win? I think a lot of parents say this but don't understand scoring a meet. If they still could win, they are probably trying to get more opportunities for swimmers in different age groups to swim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. There are programs that can run hypothetical meets and optimize points that our coaches use

OP here, We would win, without moving swimmers up, but we do it anyway. I don't get the reasoning.

Are you sure you would win? I think a lot of parents say this but don't understand scoring a meet. If they still could win, they are probably trying to get more opportunities for swimmers in different age groups to swim.

Yes, I understand scoring a meet, and yes we would still win. EVERY time they do this. I guess they think what if?? But they don't think about the hurt feelings of a kid that expects to swim and finds out they won't because of this strategy. Or how the family is turned off to swim team. Or how the other kids in the age group feel swimming with the youngster who gets cheered on to beat their own team mates.

I must not be cut throat enough. I don't think it is necessary

[Anonymous]

I am surprised NVSL doesn’t have a rule prohibiting swimups for competitive advantage. MCSL does. In MCSL you can only swim up kids when there are not available swimmers on that age group. Also kids don’t love to do it bc the swim up times aren’t counted for all stars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. There are programs that can run hypothetical meets and optimize points that our coaches use

OP here, We would win, without moving swimmers up, but we do it anyway. I don't get the reasoning.

Are you sure you would win? I think a lot of parents say this but don't understand scoring a meet. If they still could win, they are probably trying to get more opportunities for swimmers in different age groups to swim.

Yes, I understand scoring a meet, and yes we would still win. EVERY time they do this. I guess they think what if?? But they don't think about the hurt feelings of a kid that expects to swim and finds out they won't because of this strategy. Or how the family is turned off to swim team. Or how the other kids in the age group feel swimming with the youngster who gets cheered on to beat their own team mates.

I must not be cut throat enough. I don't think it is necessary

We swim up because we have two large age groups. So they swim them up a lot to give them a chance in the water. If they did not then a ton of kids would never ever make an A meet. Yes, it helps win but it also gets more swimmers in the meet all around. Our team often has 80 entries in a swim meet whereas most teams have 60 kids. LOTS of swim ups so slower kids can be put in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. There are programs that can run hypothetical meets and optimize points that our coaches use

OP here, We would win, without moving swimmers up, but we do it anyway. I don't get the reasoning.

Are you sure you would win? I think a lot of parents say this but don't understand scoring a meet. If they still could win, they are probably trying to get more opportunities for swimmers in different age groups to swim.

Yes, I understand scoring a meet, and yes we would still win. EVERY time they do this. I guess they think what if?? But they don't think about the hurt feelings of a kid that expects to swim and finds out they won't because of this strategy. Or how the family is turned off to swim team. Or how the other kids in the age group feel swimming with the youngster who gets cheered on to beat their own team mates.

I must not be cut throat enough. I don't think it is necessary

Have you thought about joining a smaller, lower division team? Large teams have a lot of competing interests. It is tough to manage it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. There are programs that can run hypothetical meets and optimize points that our coaches use

OP here, We would win, without moving swimmers up, but we do it anyway. I don't get the reasoning.

Are you sure you would win? I think a lot of parents say this but don't understand scoring a meet. If they still could win, they are probably trying to get more opportunities for swimmers in different age groups to swim.

Yes, I understand scoring a meet, and yes we would still win. EVERY time they do this. I guess they think what if?? But they don't think about the hurt feelings of a kid that expects to swim and finds out they won't because of this strategy. Or how the family is turned off to swim team. Or how the other kids in the age group feel swimming with the youngster who gets cheered on to beat their own team mates.

I must not be cut throat enough. I don't think it is necessary

We swim up because we have two large age groups. So they swim them up a lot to give them a chance in the water. If they did not then a ton of kids would never ever make an A meet. Yes, it helps win but it also gets more swimmers in the meet all around. Our team often has 80 entries in a swim meet whereas most teams have 60 kids. LOTS of swim ups so slower kids can be put in.

this is not the reason we are doing it, but I don't understand your team's rationale either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am surprised NVSL doesn’t have a rule prohibiting swimups for competitive advantage. MCSL does. In MCSL you can only swim up kids when there are not available swimmers on that age group. Also kids don’t love to do it bc the swim up times aren’t counted for all stars.

our team follows the MCSL rule, even though we're in NVSL. We only have kids swim up if the upper age group does not have 3 legal swimmers available. We are division 6, but a few of our older age groups struggle.

[Anonymous]

In NVSL only Divisionals times count for All Stars, and you can't swim up in Divisionals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In NVSL only Divisionals times count for All Stars, and you can't swim up in Divisionals.

I think that by doing this, it allows the league to swim up as a strategy for winning points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does your team swim up kids in an older age group to win meets? Ours does regularly. We would win either way.

Just wondering.

Question If swimming up swimmers was the difference between winning and losing a tight meet - would it be okay then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our NVSL team swims up swimmers in A meets only to fill empty lanes (when there is no one in that age group to swim the event). We would never leave off a swimmer (absent some sort of discipline issue) to swim someone up from a younger age group.

As a former team rep, I am actually surprised that some teams do that as part of strategy to win, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

+1 This is what our team does. We swim kids up all the time, but only to give younger kids an opportunity to swim in what would otherwise be an empty lane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does your team swim up kids in an older age group to win meets? Ours does regularly. We would win either way.

Just wondering.

Question If swimming up swimmers was the difference between winning and losing a tight meet - would it be okay then?

OP here, I dont' think it should be done. I think unless your team has holes, kids should swim their age. I understand it is my opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does your team swim up kids in an older age group to win meets? Ours does regularly. We would win either way.

Just wondering.

Question If swimming up swimmers was the difference between winning and losing a tight meet - would it be okay then?

OP here, I dont' think it should be done. I think unless your team has holes, kids should swim their age. I understand it is my opinion.

there are worse things than losing a swim meet. I didn't think summer swim was like an AAU team, I look forward to it every year. but I don't anymore. And that bothers me.

[Anonymous]

Yes but not if it costs the team points. And only to fill and empty spot because there aren’t any kids to swim in the higher age group.