Which of the T20 schools have the least driven, intense, goal-oriented students?

[Anonymous]

I would love to know what school this is so I can tell my DS. He is hooked and in contention for many t20s (4.0, valedictorian probably, 1580, great ECs), but I know he also wants to have fun in college. He's already taken UChicago off his list because he has not heard great things about the social atmosphere there. Any other ones he should avoid?

[Anonymous]

Could you clarify what " brass ring problem" means?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is clear all the angry bitter adults attacking OPs teenager in this thread aren’t on T20 campuses now, because if they were, they would know that there is deep concern among the faculty about precisely what OPs child is reporting.

OP, I suggest your child find a faculty mentor to talk with. She isn’t alone in her concerns, but transferring might not be the answer either. The faculty is very familiar with the problem she’s identified and will be a resource for her. It may take a few tries, but I would counsel her to talk to her professors.

oh geez. how is an adult supposed to help a college freshman learn to socialize? ffs. so much helplessness. maybe this kid needs to come home and go to community college.

I mean you are the one calling a teenager you don’t know names. Maybe you aren’t really best positioned to speculate about adults who know how to help their students. It doesn’t seem to be a skill set you’d have.

Um it’s actually OP calling an entire school of teenagers “grinds” and “Tracy Flicks.”

I never called OP’s child any names. I just think it’s important to own your choices & circumstances & preferences and not blame others.

OP used the parenthetical phrase "holds nose" in addition to calling other students "grinds" and "Tracy Flicks"--which comes across as very juvenile. Plus, OP is unable to articulate the issue well.

.

“Holds nose” parenthetically address “top credentials.” Saying your kid has top credentials would seem important to ward off the ppl who say the kid is dumb/underserving. That didnt work. Holding nose was a shorthand way to acknowledge that it’s problematic to assign ranking to a teen’s resume

Can’t win with the stressed parents of DCUM

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would love to know what school this is so I can tell my DS. He is hooked and in contention for many t20s (4.0, valedictorian probably, 1580, great ECs), but I know he also wants to have fun in college. He's already taken UChicago off his list because he has not heard great things about the social atmosphere there. Any other ones he should avoid?

Look at the type of kids from his school that head off to the different T20 colleges each year. Pay attention to the schools chosen by the kids he likes socially.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, it is still only October. Maybe give it time. Students are nervous and trying to find their way and grinding at classes where they may not ultimately be successful. Not everyone who thinks they are Pre-Med stays Pre-Med, right? And it may take some time to find your people, but in a large University they are there. My DS attends Cornell and likes it very much but recently confessed to me that he is exhausted by the notion that every minute of your day has to involve something meaningful so that you get the right internship or the right job or the right grad school. His characterization reminded me of long ago being a Biglaw associate! He’s not built that way, and will probably have a different path than the hard chargers, but that’s OK.

Thank you - your son and his college atmosphere both sound familiar!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is clear all the angry bitter adults attacking OPs teenager in this thread aren’t on T20 campuses now, because if they were, they would know that there is deep concern among the faculty about precisely what OPs child is reporting.

OP, I suggest your child find a faculty mentor to talk with. She isn’t alone in her concerns, but transferring might not be the answer either. The faculty is very familiar with the problem she’s identified and will be a resource for her. It may take a few tries, but I would counsel her to talk to her professors.

oh geez. how is an adult supposed to help a college freshman learn to socialize? ffs. so much helplessness. maybe this kid needs to come home and go to community college.

I mean you are the one calling a teenager you don’t know names. Maybe you aren’t really best positioned to speculate about adults who know how to help their students. It doesn’t seem to be a skill set you’d have.

Um it’s actually OP calling an entire school of teenagers “grinds” and “Tracy Flicks.”

I never called OP’s child any names. I just think it’s important to own your choices & circumstances & preferences and not blame others.

OP used the parenthetical phrase "holds nose" in addition to calling other students "grinds" and "Tracy Flicks"--which comes across as very juvenile. Plus, OP is unable to articulate the issue well.

.

“Holds nose” parenthetically address “top credentials.” Saying your kid has top credentials would seem important to ward off the ppl who say the kid is dumb/underserving. That didnt work. Holding nose was a shorthand way to acknowledge that it’s problematic to assign ranking to a teen’s resume

Can’t win with the stressed parents of DCUM

Academics are not the problem. Where did the other academically advanced kids that she likes socially decide to enroll? Look there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is clear all the angry bitter adults attacking OPs teenager in this thread aren’t on T20 campuses now, because if they were, they would know that there is deep concern among the faculty about precisely what OPs child is reporting.

OP, I suggest your child find a faculty mentor to talk with. She isn’t alone in her concerns, but transferring might not be the answer either. The faculty is very familiar with the problem she’s identified and will be a resource for her. It may take a few tries, but I would counsel her to talk to her professors.

oh geez. how is an adult supposed to help a college freshman learn to socialize? ffs. so much helplessness. maybe this kid needs to come home and go to community college.

I mean you are the one calling a teenager you don’t know names. Maybe you aren’t really best positioned to speculate about adults who know how to help their students. It doesn’t seem to be a skill set you’d have.

Um it’s actually OP calling an entire school of teenagers “grinds” and “Tracy Flicks.”

I never called OP’s child any names. I just think it’s important to own your choices & circumstances & preferences and not blame others.

OP used the parenthetical phrase "holds nose" in addition to calling other students "grinds" and "Tracy Flicks"--which comes across as very juvenile. Plus, OP is unable to articulate the issue well.

.

“Holds nose” parenthetically address “top credentials.” Saying your kid has top credentials would seem important to ward off the ppl who say the kid is dumb/underserving. That didnt work. Holding nose was a shorthand way to acknowledge that it’s problematic to assign ranking to a teen’s resume

Can’t win with the stressed parents of DCUM

Academics are not the problem. Where did the other academically advanced kids that she likes socially decide to enroll? Look there.

I’m OP. I’ll answer this ^^. Yale, Chicago, swarthmore, Brown, Yale, Georgetown.

That is my kid’s high school actual friend group (vs random kids in graduation class).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is clear all the angry bitter adults attacking OPs teenager in this thread aren’t on T20 campuses now, because if they were, they would know that there is deep concern among the faculty about precisely what OPs child is reporting.

OP, I suggest your child find a faculty mentor to talk with. She isn’t alone in her concerns, but transferring might not be the answer either. The faculty is very familiar with the problem she’s identified and will be a resource for her. It may take a few tries, but I would counsel her to talk to her professors.

oh geez. how is an adult supposed to help a college freshman learn to socialize? ffs. so much helplessness. maybe this kid needs to come home and go to community college.

I mean you are the one calling a teenager you don’t know names. Maybe you aren’t really best positioned to speculate about adults who know how to help their students. It doesn’t seem to be a skill set you’d have.

Um it’s actually OP calling an entire school of teenagers “grinds” and “Tracy Flicks.”

I never called OP’s child any names. I just think it’s important to own your choices & circumstances & preferences and not blame others.

OP used the parenthetical phrase "holds nose" in addition to calling other students "grinds" and "Tracy Flicks"--which comes across as very juvenile. Plus, OP is unable to articulate the issue well.

.

“Holds nose” parenthetically address “top credentials.” Saying your kid has top credentials would seem important to ward off the ppl who say the kid is dumb/underserving. That didnt work. Holding nose was a shorthand way to acknowledge that it’s problematic to assign ranking to a teen’s resume

Can’t win with the stressed parents of DCUM

Academics are not the problem. Where did the other academically advanced kids that she likes socially decide to enroll? Look there.

I’m OP. I’ll answer this ^^. Yale, Chicago, swarthmore, Brown, Yale, Georgetown.

That is my kid’s high school actual friend group (vs random kids in graduation class).

Ok. So if she knows she enjoys the company of some students at those places, maybe start with that list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had to re-read the OP. Either very few posters understood the point of the OP or OP did not make it clear until late 8 or the posts. OP, tell your kid to find some low-key, low-stairs club like Ultimate Frisbee or stage/tech crew for drama. Something that blows off steam or is not a go-getter activity and see if any of those kids are willing to take some down-time. I went to U Chicago many years ago and I found friends who valued downtime and going out to a show or grabbing a sandwich. Your kid probably just needs to look and get past the facade of looking busy that a lot of these T15 students may think you’re supposed to have. I don’t agree with those who say they should transfer. Just look around and find the slackers. There have to be some somewhere!

Thank you - this is exactly what they’re doing. Actually has found the most traction off campus making friends that don’t go to kid’s school. Or are decades older but share common interests (hypothetical examples: kite surfing. NASCAR)

[Anonymous]

Rice and Vanderbilt seem to fit happy T20 criteria according to lists of happiest colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is clear all the angry bitter adults attacking OPs teenager in this thread aren’t on T20 campuses now, because if they were, they would know that there is deep concern among the faculty about precisely what OPs child is reporting.

OP, I suggest your child find a faculty mentor to talk with. She isn’t alone in her concerns, but transferring might not be the answer either. The faculty is very familiar with the problem she’s identified and will be a resource for her. It may take a few tries, but I would counsel her to talk to her professors.

oh geez. how is an adult supposed to help a college freshman learn to socialize? ffs. so much helplessness. maybe this kid needs to come home and go to community college.

I mean you are the one calling a teenager you don’t know names. Maybe you aren’t really best positioned to speculate about adults who know how to help their students. It doesn’t seem to be a skill set you’d have.

Um it’s actually OP calling an entire school of teenagers “grinds” and “Tracy Flicks.”

I never called OP’s child any names. I just think it’s important to own your choices & circumstances & preferences and not blame others.

OP used the parenthetical phrase "holds nose" in addition to calling other students "grinds" and "Tracy Flicks"--which comes across as very juvenile. Plus, OP is unable to articulate the issue well.

.

“Holds nose” parenthetically address “top credentials.” Saying your kid has top credentials would seem important to ward off the ppl who say the kid is dumb/underserving. That didnt work. Holding nose was a shorthand way to acknowledge that it’s problematic to assign ranking to a teen’s resume

Can’t win with the stressed parents of DCUM

we all know “holds nose” was humble bragging. OP is looking for the brass ring of a college with top credentials where their child won’t have to study but will still be the top.

[Anonymous]

Stanford if you are not interested in CS/Pre-Med. Surprised nobody has mentioned it before. Always had the reputation that the hard part is getting in. School has the most NCAA DI champions of any school, all those top athletes are good students but they are not all Top 5% of their HS class. There is also huge time commitment for sports. They are all not grinding in the library the rest of the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would love to know what school this is so I can tell my DS. He is hooked and in contention for many t20s (4.0, valedictorian probably, 1580, great ECs), but I know he also wants to have fun in college. He's already taken UChicago off his list because he has not heard great things about the social atmosphere there. Any other ones he should avoid?

Hooked how?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Rice and Vanderbilt seem to fit happy T20 criteria according to lists of happiest colleges.

I’ve heard social scene at Rice is pretty subdued, but it attracts kids who are looking for that, sort of like William and Mary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe OP is reluctant to identify the current school because it is an SLAC and having this type of difficulty at an SLAC runs counter to the liberal arts education at a small school sales pitch.

If OP's child is looking to transfer, not identifying more about the current school is likely to make this an exercise in futility. Specifics matter. This is an anonymous forum. Most posters want to help and some of us have decades of experience.

.

There are only 15 schools in the T15 national universities and I acknowledged it isn’t UChicago. I said this in my OP.

I appreciate the personal anecdotes and thoughtful lists from some PPs. Also the big picture analysis - kid thought they could avoid the brass ring problem by being strategic in their choice. Seems they were wrong

If - if - kid raises the idea of transferring I would ask them to look at giant flagships like Michigan or Berkeley, etc. There has to be something of everything there - right?

Yes, Berkeley and Michigan both offer variety in large doses.

To understand the parameters of OP's request:

2023 US News Top 15:

Princeton, MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Chicago, JHU, UPenn, Caltech, Duke, Northwestern, Dartmouth, Brown, Vanderbilt, Rice, and WashUStL.

Remainder of the Top 20 National Universities: Cornell, Columbia, Notre Dame, UC-Berkeley, and UCLA.

Based on OP's posts, the student is currently at one of Duke, Dartmouth, Brown, Vanderbilt, or Rice as these have reputations for being a bit more relaxed than the others.

OP: Although there is probably no need to transfer, Dartmouth College has a high acceptance rate for transfers (29%). Vanderbilt has a 37% acceptance rate for transfers. Rice is at 12%. Duke & Brown are at 5% & 4%. The 21% and 24% rates for Berkeley & UCLA are misleading as many come from 2 year California junior colleges.