Do you believe the US is the best country in the world? If not, then which?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the components of the social mobility index. It is very heavily weighted towards social safety net provisions. I see very few components on the list that would correspond with what most in the US would associate with opportunities to be socially mobile.

If the #1 predictor of social mobility is education, then free or lower cost university education has quite a bit to do with social mobility.

Again, if Europe has so much access to university education, then where is all the innovation out of countries like Denmark, Netherlands, etc. Where were they to invent vaccines that saved the planet from COVID? Once again, the technology used to save the world on its knees was fundamentally based on American technology and scientific discovery.

Where is all the innovation?

Let's ask the Global Innovation Index, shall we?

1. Switzerland
2. Sweden
3. United States of America

https://www.globalinnovationindex.org/userfiles/file/reportpdf/GII-2021/GII_at_a_glance.pdf

What a joke. Now do patents, quantities of publications in top end journals, etc. Name 3 things from Switzeland and Sweden each that have had trillion dollar impacts on the global economy. The crappy index you cite doesn't even consider the actual quality of innovations being churned out and their overall economic impacts.

Whether that index is worthwhile or not depends on the components they are rating. The link provides no information on these.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the components of the social mobility index. It is very heavily weighted towards social safety net provisions. I see very few components on the list that would correspond with what most in the US would associate with opportunities to be socially mobile.

If the #1 predictor of social mobility is education, then free or lower cost university education has quite a bit to do with social mobility.

Again, if Europe has so much access to university education, then where is all the innovation out of countries like Denmark, Netherlands, etc. Where were they to invent vaccines that saved the planet from COVID? Once again, the technology used to save the world on its knees was fundamentally based on American technology and scientific discovery.

Are you kidding me, PP?

https://www.wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/wipo_pub_gii_2021/dk.pdf
https://www.wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/wipo_pub_gii_2021/nl.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Netherlands is probably the best country when you add everything together that I care about: political and social freedom, a functional economy, excellent urban planning, health (not just access to affordable healthcare but an actually healthy population), moderately regulated capitalism, an educated and multilingual population, and at least the younger generation is less racist.

I should also add - it is well known that Netherlands has a problem with very low incomes and high costs for housing/rent. If you don't make enough, you get govt subsidies to afford housing. What do you think the net result is? People just work part time or hardly at all, because there is zero motivation to work full time and be more productive since you'll be taxed more and lose subsidies for housing that results in no improvement in disposable income. When's the last time you've ever heard about any great new technological advances or business leadership come out of the Netherlands? I mean I guess if you are fine with coasting through a mediocre life with low salaries and no chance of social mobility in exchange for the govt providing all basic necessities, ok.

At least 90% of people in the US live "mediocre" lifestyles.

When was the last time the US made top 10 most happiest countries? Netherlands is always in the top 10.

Here are the top 10 countries and their score:

Finland- 7.821
Denmark- 7.636
Iceland- 7.557
Switzerland- 7.512
Netherlands- 7.415
Luxembourg- 7.404
Sweden- 7.384
Norway- 7.365
Israel- 7.364
New Zealand- 7.200


US #16 - behind Canada and the UK

What good is all the "advancements" when so many Americans are unhappy?

So your measurement for best country to live in is based on some subjective measure like 'happiness', lol. The US is far more innovative than the Netherlands and pretty much all of Europe. Look, if you want a mediocre lifestyle with extremely low incomes, high levels of taxation, high costs of living, no chance of ever climbing the wealth ladder, and having the govt take care of all basic necessities in life for you, that's fine - go move to Europe and the Netherlands. If you want much higher incomes, lower levels of taxation, lower costs of living and less safety nets from the govt in exchange for better opportunities to climb the wealth ladder, the stock with the US. Believe it or not, many of US would rather control our wealth than want the govt to do it. My wife makes $95k after her base salary her plus bonus for just being an administrative staff member. Tell me where in Europe she'd get that kind of salary. It doesn't exist and she'd be lucky to make 30k euros before taxes. I'm sure there are millions of Americans living medicore lives - the point is though that you are least have the opportunity to climb the ladder in the US while it is impossible to climb the ladder in a country like the Netherlands because there is zero innovation going on that builds wealth for the country. My father immigrated here with virtually $0 and a high school education. He started as a bus boy at a local restaurant. He eventually learned English, made it through community college and became a nurse. It was enough to send his children both to university. My brother started his own extremely successful business. I earned my PhD in engineering. My father's kids will likely retire with well over $1M in wealth, and our kids will be even better off than us. We have climbed the wealth ladder because of opportunities in the US and because the US rewards education and drive. I'm sorry there are unhappy Americans out there.m, but there are plenty of us out here in the US who have made it.

Two things. It's sort of telling that you think it was a huge thing to send children to university, when in most of Europe you wouldn't have had to save your entire life to educate your children. They'd be able to enter university and it would not have been a financial burden for the family.

And second, the Global Social Mobility index disagrees with you because it ranks the US as #27, behind most of Europe.

+1

https://reports.weforum.org/social-mobility-report-2020/social-mobility-rankings/

Denmark is #1. Netherlands is #6. USA all the way down at #27.

What’s interesting is that Northern Europe consistently wins on metrics provided by data but USA wins on rags-to-riches anecdotes. I’m not saying the USA is terrible. I think the USA beats Northern Europe on general diversity, entertainment, and certainly geographic diversity and better weather. It’s not all the abject poverty of the rundown neighborhoods of Detroit or impoverished Appalachia or Cancer Alley in Louisiana. But it’s not all McLean Virginia either. For every single rags-to-riches story of an immigrant coming with $10 and starting a business and selling products to defense contractors and living in a northern Virginia McMansion, there’s ten stories of families who never break out of the cycle of poverty, and 100 stories of just normal people who are attempting to climb the ladder but never quite make it there, but give up all their mental and physical health in their pursuit to do so.

It’s not JUST that the American Dream is hard, but that it is impossible for 99% by design. By definition only 1% can be in the 1%.

If that 1% shot is the most important thing to you, then by all means, of course you think America is the best. But does America’s collection of anecdotes translate to overall greater happiness, health, quality of life, and social mobility? The data states otherwise.

What a ridiculous comparison. As if it is fair to compare a country with 330+ million people to tiny countries like Denmark and the Netherlands 20-50x smaller populations. It's almost as if scaling out wealth and combating poverty is harder when you have 50x the size. Gee, who knew? Name another country in the world the size of the US that provides anywhere near the same level of median incomes per capita. I'll wait.

DP.. do you understand OP's question? It's not "do you believe the US is the best country in the world compared to the same size country".. it's a general question compared to *all* countries in the world.

In general, there are other countries where their people are healthier, safer and happier than the general population in the US.

Compared to all the developed countries in the world, only the US has a high rate of illiteracy, bankruptcy from medical bills, more gun deaths per capita.

That doesn't mean the US is complete trash. Of course not. You can have a good life in the US *if* you have enough money, and live in an affluent area with low crime.

But a lot of people in the US don't have enough money to cover everything.. from healthcare costs, housing, to education. That's why we have so many people with college debt, high number of medical bankruptcies. Heck, you are not even immune to school shootings even if you live in a nice suburban area.

We have friends in the UK. They *never ever* worry about school shootings. Here, it's always in the back of my mind. Today, my kids' school is going through a lockdown/shelter in place drill. I feel so sad for them that this is their reality compared to my friends' kids who never have to worry about sh1t like that.

I'm.glad you have friends in the UK who don't worry about shootings. Meanwhile, they're probably worried about jobs and being able to afford to live with double digit inflation and the British pound crashing. Holy Toledo, have you seen what's happened to the pound today?

Why is everyone fleeing the European continent for investment? The outlook over there is very bleak.

nope, they don't fret over jobs. They know they can still go see a doctor and get medical care if they lose their job. They also have council housing, if they need it, but none of them need it. They also have better mass transit options than we do, and many take the train/bus to work.

Ups/downs hit all countries. Have you seen our inflation rates? We also had huge spikes in gas prices. When we were in the UK over the summer, the cost of gas (petrol) there was not that much higher than in the US.

Is *everyone* fleeing the European continent for investment? I hadn't heard that. So, everyone in Europe is unemployed?

If you are on medicare and qualify for the full extent of it, you get better care in the USA than you would in the countries with socialized medicine. They aren't as focused on servicing those at the end of life or with chronic ailments unless they have $$$. UK has private medical care as well, some people need to supplement, so it's not really free. If you are dirt poor old person in a big city you probably get the best medical services and availability and procedures and medicine without paying anything at all. If you are below 65 and/or have some assets you will be bled dry if you have major medical issues and cannot afford high premium and deductible insurance plans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Netherlands is probably the best country when you add everything together that I care about: political and social freedom, a functional economy, excellent urban planning, health (not just access to affordable healthcare but an actually healthy population), moderately regulated capitalism, an educated and multilingual population, and at least the younger generation is less racist.

I should also add - it is well known that Netherlands has a problem with very low incomes and high costs for housing/rent. If you don't make enough, you get govt subsidies to afford housing. What do you think the net result is? People just work part time or hardly at all, because there is zero motivation to work full time and be more productive since you'll be taxed more and lose subsidies for housing that results in no improvement in disposable income. When's the last time you've ever heard about any great new technological advances or business leadership come out of the Netherlands? I mean I guess if you are fine with coasting through a mediocre life with low salaries and no chance of social mobility in exchange for the govt providing all basic necessities, ok.

At least 90% of people in the US live "mediocre" lifestyles.

When was the last time the US made top 10 most happiest countries? Netherlands is always in the top 10.

Here are the top 10 countries and their score:

Finland- 7.821
Denmark- 7.636
Iceland- 7.557
Switzerland- 7.512
Netherlands- 7.415
Luxembourg- 7.404
Sweden- 7.384
Norway- 7.365
Israel- 7.364
New Zealand- 7.200


US #16 - behind Canada and the UK

What good is all the "advancements" when so many Americans are unhappy?

So your measurement for best country to live in is based on some subjective measure like 'happiness', lol. The US is far more innovative than the Netherlands and pretty much all of Europe. Look, if you want a mediocre lifestyle with extremely low incomes, high levels of taxation, high costs of living, no chance of ever climbing the wealth ladder, and having the govt take care of all basic necessities in life for you, that's fine - go move to Europe and the Netherlands. If you want much higher incomes, lower levels of taxation, lower costs of living and less safety nets from the govt in exchange for better opportunities to climb the wealth ladder, the stock with the US. Believe it or not, many of US would rather control our wealth than want the govt to do it. My wife makes $95k after her base salary her plus bonus for just being an administrative staff member. Tell me where in Europe she'd get that kind of salary. It doesn't exist and she'd be lucky to make 30k euros before taxes. I'm sure there are millions of Americans living medicore lives - the point is though that you are least have the opportunity to climb the ladder in the US while it is impossible to climb the ladder in a country like the Netherlands because there is zero innovation going on that builds wealth for the country. My father immigrated here with virtually $0 and a high school education. He started as a bus boy at a local restaurant. He eventually learned English, made it through community college and became a nurse. It was enough to send his children both to university. My brother started his own extremely successful business. I earned my PhD in engineering. My father's kids will likely retire with well over $1M in wealth, and our kids will be even better off than us. We have climbed the wealth ladder because of opportunities in the US and because the US rewards education and drive. I'm sorry there are unhappy Americans out there.m, but there are plenty of us out here in the US who have made it.

Two things. It's sort of telling that you think it was a huge thing to send children to university, when in most of Europe you wouldn't have had to save your entire life to educate your children. They'd be able to enter university and it would not have been a financial burden for the family.

And second, the Global Social Mobility index disagrees with you because it ranks the US as #27, behind most of Europe.

+1

https://reports.weforum.org/social-mobility-report-2020/social-mobility-rankings/

Denmark is #1. Netherlands is #6. USA all the way down at #27.

What’s interesting is that Northern Europe consistently wins on metrics provided by data but USA wins on rags-to-riches anecdotes. I’m not saying the USA is terrible. I think the USA beats Northern Europe on general diversity, entertainment, and certainly geographic diversity and better weather. It’s not all the abject poverty of the rundown neighborhoods of Detroit or impoverished Appalachia or Cancer Alley in Louisiana. But it’s not all McLean Virginia either. For every single rags-to-riches story of an immigrant coming with $10 and starting a business and selling products to defense contractors and living in a northern Virginia McMansion, there’s ten stories of families who never break out of the cycle of poverty, and 100 stories of just normal people who are attempting to climb the ladder but never quite make it there, but give up all their mental and physical health in their pursuit to do so.

It’s not JUST that the American Dream is hard, but that it is impossible for 99% by design. By definition only 1% can be in the 1%.

If that 1% shot is the most important thing to you, then by all means, of course you think America is the best. But does America’s collection of anecdotes translate to overall greater happiness, health, quality of life, and social mobility? The data states otherwise.

What a ridiculous comparison. As if it is fair to compare a country with 330+ million people to tiny countries like Denmark and the Netherlands 20-50x smaller populations. It's almost as if scaling out wealth and combating poverty is harder when you have 50x the size. Gee, who knew? Name another country in the world the size of the US that provides anywhere near the same level of median incomes per capita. I'll wait.

DP.. do you understand OP's question? It's not "do you believe the US is the best country in the world compared to the same size country".. it's a general question compared to *all* countries in the world.

In general, there are other countries where their people are healthier, safer and happier than the general population in the US.

Compared to all the developed countries in the world, only the US has a high rate of illiteracy, bankruptcy from medical bills, more gun deaths per capita.

That doesn't mean the US is complete trash. Of course not. You can have a good life in the US *if* you have enough money, and live in an affluent area with low crime.

But a lot of people in the US don't have enough money to cover everything.. from healthcare costs, housing, to education. That's why we have so many people with college debt, high number of medical bankruptcies. Heck, you are not even immune to school shootings even if you live in a nice suburban area.

We have friends in the UK. They *never ever* worry about school shootings. Here, it's always in the back of my mind. Today, my kids' school is going through a lockdown/shelter in place drill. I feel so sad for them that this is their reality compared to my friends' kids who never have to worry about sh1t like that.

I'm.glad you have friends in the UK who don't worry about shootings. Meanwhile, they're probably worried about jobs and being able to afford to live with double digit inflation and the British pound crashing. Holy Toledo, have you seen what's happened to the pound today?

Why is everyone fleeing the European continent for investment? The outlook over there is very bleak.

nope, they don't fret over jobs. They know they can still go see a doctor and get medical care if they lose their job. They also have council housing, if they need it, but none of them need it. They also have better mass transit options than we do, and many take the train/bus to work.

Ups/downs hit all countries. Have you seen our inflation rates? We also had huge spikes in gas prices. When we were in the UK over the summer, the cost of gas (petrol) there was not that much higher than in the US.

Is *everyone* fleeing the European continent for investment? I hadn't heard that. So, everyone in Europe is unemployed?

Yeah, tell that to my UK relatives. LOL. They don't worry about any of that. They have free medical care, regardless of job, just to name one. Also better infrastructure (as PP notes). Many don't need cars if they don't want them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the components of the social mobility index. It is very heavily weighted towards social safety net provisions. I see very few components on the list that would correspond with what most in the US would associate with opportunities to be socially mobile.

If the #1 predictor of social mobility is education, then free or lower cost university education has quite a bit to do with social mobility.

Again, if Europe has so much access to university education, then where is all the innovation out of countries like Denmark, Netherlands, etc. Where were they to invent vaccines that saved the planet from COVID? Once again, the technology used to save the world on its knees was fundamentally based on American technology and scientific discovery.

Are you kidding me, PP?

https://www.wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/wipo_pub_gii_2021/dk.pdf
https://www.wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/wipo_pub_gii_2021/nl.pdf

Do I have to repeat myself? Have you looked at the trash methodology used to calculate this 'innovation index' ? What a joke:


“Ease of Paying Taxes“, “Electricity Output“ (half-weightage) and “Ease of Protecting Minority Investors” are factors alongside “Ease of Getting Credit” and “Venture Capital Deals“

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Netherlands is probably the best country when you add everything together that I care about: political and social freedom, a functional economy, excellent urban planning, health (not just access to affordable healthcare but an actually healthy population), moderately regulated capitalism, an educated and multilingual population, and at least the younger generation is less racist.

I should also add - it is well known that Netherlands has a problem with very low incomes and high costs for housing/rent. If you don't make enough, you get govt subsidies to afford housing. What do you think the net result is? People just work part time or hardly at all, because there is zero motivation to work full time and be more productive since you'll be taxed more and lose subsidies for housing that results in no improvement in disposable income. When's the last time you've ever heard about any great new technological advances or business leadership come out of the Netherlands? I mean I guess if you are fine with coasting through a mediocre life with low salaries and no chance of social mobility in exchange for the govt providing all basic necessities, ok.

At least 90% of people in the US live "mediocre" lifestyles.

When was the last time the US made top 10 most happiest countries? Netherlands is always in the top 10.

Here are the top 10 countries and their score:

Finland- 7.821
Denmark- 7.636
Iceland- 7.557
Switzerland- 7.512
Netherlands- 7.415
Luxembourg- 7.404
Sweden- 7.384
Norway- 7.365
Israel- 7.364
New Zealand- 7.200


US #16 - behind Canada and the UK

What good is all the "advancements" when so many Americans are unhappy?

So your measurement for best country to live in is based on some subjective measure like 'happiness', lol. The US is far more innovative than the Netherlands and pretty much all of Europe. Look, if you want a mediocre lifestyle with extremely low incomes, high levels of taxation, high costs of living, no chance of ever climbing the wealth ladder, and having the govt take care of all basic necessities in life for you, that's fine - go move to Europe and the Netherlands. If you want much higher incomes, lower levels of taxation, lower costs of living and less safety nets from the govt in exchange for better opportunities to climb the wealth ladder, the stock with the US. Believe it or not, many of US would rather control our wealth than want the govt to do it. My wife makes $95k after her base salary her plus bonus for just being an administrative staff member. Tell me where in Europe she'd get that kind of salary. It doesn't exist and she'd be lucky to make 30k euros before taxes. I'm sure there are millions of Americans living medicore lives - the point is though that you are least have the opportunity to climb the ladder in the US while it is impossible to climb the ladder in a country like the Netherlands because there is zero innovation going on that builds wealth for the country. My father immigrated here with virtually $0 and a high school education. He started as a bus boy at a local restaurant. He eventually learned English, made it through community college and became a nurse. It was enough to send his children both to university. My brother started his own extremely successful business. I earned my PhD in engineering. My father's kids will likely retire with well over $1M in wealth, and our kids will be even better off than us. We have climbed the wealth ladder because of opportunities in the US and because the US rewards education and drive. I'm sorry there are unhappy Americans out there.m, but there are plenty of us out here in the US who have made it.

Two things. It's sort of telling that you think it was a huge thing to send children to university, when in most of Europe you wouldn't have had to save your entire life to educate your children. They'd be able to enter university and it would not have been a financial burden for the family.

And second, the Global Social Mobility index disagrees with you because it ranks the US as #27, behind most of Europe.

+1

https://reports.weforum.org/social-mobility-report-2020/social-mobility-rankings/

Denmark is #1. Netherlands is #6. USA all the way down at #27.

What’s interesting is that Northern Europe consistently wins on metrics provided by data but USA wins on rags-to-riches anecdotes. I’m not saying the USA is terrible. I think the USA beats Northern Europe on general diversity, entertainment, and certainly geographic diversity and better weather. It’s not all the abject poverty of the rundown neighborhoods of Detroit or impoverished Appalachia or Cancer Alley in Louisiana. But it’s not all McLean Virginia either. For every single rags-to-riches story of an immigrant coming with $10 and starting a business and selling products to defense contractors and living in a northern Virginia McMansion, there’s ten stories of families who never break out of the cycle of poverty, and 100 stories of just normal people who are attempting to climb the ladder but never quite make it there, but give up all their mental and physical health in their pursuit to do so.

It’s not JUST that the American Dream is hard, but that it is impossible for 99% by design. By definition only 1% can be in the 1%.

If that 1% shot is the most important thing to you, then by all means, of course you think America is the best. But does America’s collection of anecdotes translate to overall greater happiness, health, quality of life, and social mobility? The data states otherwise.

What a ridiculous comparison. As if it is fair to compare a country with 330+ million people to tiny countries like Denmark and the Netherlands 20-50x smaller populations. It's almost as if scaling out wealth and combating poverty is harder when you have 50x the size. Gee, who knew? Name another country in the world the size of the US that provides anywhere near the same level of median incomes per capita. I'll wait.

DP.. do you understand OP's question? It's not "do you believe the US is the best country in the world compared to the same size country".. it's a general question compared to *all* countries in the world.

In general, there are other countries where their people are healthier, safer and happier than the general population in the US.

Compared to all the developed countries in the world, only the US has a high rate of illiteracy, bankruptcy from medical bills, more gun deaths per capita.

That doesn't mean the US is complete trash. Of course not. You can have a good life in the US *if* you have enough money, and live in an affluent area with low crime.

But a lot of people in the US don't have enough money to cover everything.. from healthcare costs, housing, to education. That's why we have so many people with college debt, high number of medical bankruptcies. Heck, you are not even immune to school shootings even if you live in a nice suburban area.

We have friends in the UK. They *never ever* worry about school shootings. Here, it's always in the back of my mind. Today, my kids' school is going through a lockdown/shelter in place drill. I feel so sad for them that this is their reality compared to my friends' kids who never have to worry about sh1t like that.

I'm.glad you have friends in the UK who don't worry about shootings. Meanwhile, they're probably worried about jobs and being able to afford to live with double digit inflation and the British pound crashing. Holy Toledo, have you seen what's happened to the pound today?

Why is everyone fleeing the European continent for investment? The outlook over there is very bleak.

nope, they don't fret over jobs. They know they can still go see a doctor and get medical care if they lose their job. They also have council housing, if they need it, but none of them need it. They also have better mass transit options than we do, and many take the train/bus to work.

Ups/downs hit all countries. Have you seen our inflation rates? We also had huge spikes in gas prices. When we were in the UK over the summer, the cost of gas (petrol) there was not that much higher than in the US.

Is *everyone* fleeing the European continent for investment? I hadn't heard that. So, everyone in Europe is unemployed?

If you are on medicare and qualify for the full extent of it, you get better care in the USA than you would in the countries with socialized medicine. They aren't as focused on servicing those at the end of life or with chronic ailments unless they have $$$. UK has private medical care as well, some people need to supplement, so it's not really free. If you are dirt poor old person in a big city you probably get the best medical services and availability and procedures and medicine without paying anything at all. If you are below 65 and/or have some assets you will be bled dry if you have major medical issues and cannot afford high premium and deductible insurance plans.

True, in the USA insurance is sort of tied to your job, but you can buy your own private plans or corporate plans if you are self employed. I used to buy private high deductible insurance. Paid out of pocket (at discounted price at least) for most of my routine medical care and only got coverage for major things like childbirth, surgery, etc. Even then I had to fight for some rates if hospitals switch their affiliations, etc. It does take a lot to be educated in how to efficiently use medical system here, be aware of billing practices, in-network, out of network affiliations and changes that can happen in the middle of you receiving care, be vigilant asking for prices or coverage confirmation before receiving treatments, etc. You can't just walk in and get care and not worry about receiving a bill you might be fighting for hours on end calling customer service even if it's nothing major. God forbid you are seriously hurt and end up in the hospital, you have to stress out about how your coverage will work while you are struggling to stay alive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Netherlands is probably the best country when you add everything together that I care about: political and social freedom, a functional economy, excellent urban planning, health (not just access to affordable healthcare but an actually healthy population), moderately regulated capitalism, an educated and multilingual population, and at least the younger generation is less racist.

I should also add - it is well known that Netherlands has a problem with very low incomes and high costs for housing/rent. If you don't make enough, you get govt subsidies to afford housing. What do you think the net result is? People just work part time or hardly at all, because there is zero motivation to work full time and be more productive since you'll be taxed more and lose subsidies for housing that results in no improvement in disposable income. When's the last time you've ever heard about any great new technological advances or business leadership come out of the Netherlands? I mean I guess if you are fine with coasting through a mediocre life with low salaries and no chance of social mobility in exchange for the govt providing all basic necessities, ok.

At least 90% of people in the US live "mediocre" lifestyles.

When was the last time the US made top 10 most happiest countries? Netherlands is always in the top 10.

Here are the top 10 countries and their score:

Finland- 7.821
Denmark- 7.636
Iceland- 7.557
Switzerland- 7.512
Netherlands- 7.415
Luxembourg- 7.404
Sweden- 7.384
Norway- 7.365
Israel- 7.364
New Zealand- 7.200


US #16 - behind Canada and the UK

What good is all the "advancements" when so many Americans are unhappy?

So your measurement for best country to live in is based on some subjective measure like 'happiness', lol. The US is far more innovative than the Netherlands and pretty much all of Europe. Look, if you want a mediocre lifestyle with extremely low incomes, high levels of taxation, high costs of living, no chance of ever climbing the wealth ladder, and having the govt take care of all basic necessities in life for you, that's fine - go move to Europe and the Netherlands. If you want much higher incomes, lower levels of taxation, lower costs of living and less safety nets from the govt in exchange for better opportunities to climb the wealth ladder, the stock with the US. Believe it or not, many of US would rather control our wealth than want the govt to do it. My wife makes $95k after her base salary her plus bonus for just being an administrative staff member. Tell me where in Europe she'd get that kind of salary. It doesn't exist and she'd be lucky to make 30k euros before taxes. I'm sure there are millions of Americans living medicore lives - the point is though that you are least have the opportunity to climb the ladder in the US while it is impossible to climb the ladder in a country like the Netherlands because there is zero innovation going on that builds wealth for the country. My father immigrated here with virtually $0 and a high school education. He started as a bus boy at a local restaurant. He eventually learned English, made it through community college and became a nurse. It was enough to send his children both to university. My brother started his own extremely successful business. I earned my PhD in engineering. My father's kids will likely retire with well over $1M in wealth, and our kids will be even better off than us. We have climbed the wealth ladder because of opportunities in the US and because the US rewards education and drive. I'm sorry there are unhappy Americans out there.m, but there are plenty of us out here in the US who have made it.

Two things. It's sort of telling that you think it was a huge thing to send children to university, when in most of Europe you wouldn't have had to save your entire life to educate your children. They'd be able to enter university and it would not have been a financial burden for the family.

And second, the Global Social Mobility index disagrees with you because it ranks the US as #27, behind most of Europe.

+1

https://reports.weforum.org/social-mobility-report-2020/social-mobility-rankings/

Denmark is #1. Netherlands is #6. USA all the way down at #27.

What’s interesting is that Northern Europe consistently wins on metrics provided by data but USA wins on rags-to-riches anecdotes. I’m not saying the USA is terrible. I think the USA beats Northern Europe on general diversity, entertainment, and certainly geographic diversity and better weather. It’s not all the abject poverty of the rundown neighborhoods of Detroit or impoverished Appalachia or Cancer Alley in Louisiana. But it’s not all McLean Virginia either. For every single rags-to-riches story of an immigrant coming with $10 and starting a business and selling products to defense contractors and living in a northern Virginia McMansion, there’s ten stories of families who never break out of the cycle of poverty, and 100 stories of just normal people who are attempting to climb the ladder but never quite make it there, but give up all their mental and physical health in their pursuit to do so.

It’s not JUST that the American Dream is hard, but that it is impossible for 99% by design. By definition only 1% can be in the 1%.

If that 1% shot is the most important thing to you, then by all means, of course you think America is the best. But does America’s collection of anecdotes translate to overall greater happiness, health, quality of life, and social mobility? The data states otherwise.

What a ridiculous comparison. As if it is fair to compare a country with 330+ million people to tiny countries like Denmark and the Netherlands 20-50x smaller populations. It's almost as if scaling out wealth and combating poverty is harder when you have 50x the size. Gee, who knew? Name another country in the world the size of the US that provides anywhere near the same level of median incomes per capita. I'll wait.

DP.. do you understand OP's question? It's not "do you believe the US is the best country in the world compared to the same size country".. it's a general question compared to *all* countries in the world.

In general, there are other countries where their people are healthier, safer and happier than the general population in the US.

Compared to all the developed countries in the world, only the US has a high rate of illiteracy, bankruptcy from medical bills, more gun deaths per capita.

That doesn't mean the US is complete trash. Of course not. You can have a good life in the US *if* you have enough money, and live in an affluent area with low crime.

But a lot of people in the US don't have enough money to cover everything.. from healthcare costs, housing, to education. That's why we have so many people with college debt, high number of medical bankruptcies. Heck, you are not even immune to school shootings even if you live in a nice suburban area.

We have friends in the UK. They *never ever* worry about school shootings. Here, it's always in the back of my mind. Today, my kids' school is going through a lockdown/shelter in place drill. I feel so sad for them that this is their reality compared to my friends' kids who never have to worry about sh1t like that.

I'm.glad you have friends in the UK who don't worry about shootings. Meanwhile, they're probably worried about jobs and being able to afford to live with double digit inflation and the British pound crashing. Holy Toledo, have you seen what's happened to the pound today?

Why is everyone fleeing the European continent for investment? The outlook over there is very bleak.

nope, they don't fret over jobs. They know they can still go see a doctor and get medical care if they lose their job. They also have council housing, if they need it, but none of them need it. They also have better mass transit options than we do, and many take the train/bus to work.

Ups/downs hit all countries. Have you seen our inflation rates? We also had huge spikes in gas prices. When we were in the UK over the summer, the cost of gas (petrol) there was not that much higher than in the US.

Is *everyone* fleeing the European continent for investment? I hadn't heard that. So, everyone in Europe is unemployed?

If you are on medicare and qualify for the full extent of it, you get better care in the USA than you would in the countries with socialized medicine. They aren't as focused on servicing those at the end of life or with chronic ailments unless they have $$$. UK has private medical care as well, some people need to supplement, so it's not really free. If you are dirt poor old person in a big city you probably get the best medical services and availability and procedures and medicine without paying anything at all. If you are below 65 and/or have some assets you will be bled dry if you have major medical issues and cannot afford high premium and deductible insurance plans.

True, in the USA insurance is sort of tied to your job, but you can buy your own private plans or corporate plans if you are self employed. I used to buy private high deductible insurance. Paid out of pocket (at discounted price at least) for most of my routine medical care and only got coverage for major things like childbirth, surgery, etc. Even then I had to fight for some rates if hospitals switch their affiliations, etc. It does take a lot to be educated in how to efficiently use medical system here, be aware of billing practices, in-network, out of network affiliations and changes that can happen in the middle of you receiving care, be vigilant asking for prices or coverage confirmation before receiving treatments, etc. You can't just walk in and get care and not worry about receiving a bill you might be fighting for hours on end calling customer service even if it's nothing major. God forbid you are seriously hurt and end up in the hospital, you have to stress out about how your coverage will work while you are struggling to stay alive.

On the other hand... If you are a hobo you can just walk into any city hospital and get free care and a free hospital bed for as long as you need, no strings attached. Also, you can come to the hospital and get a bed just to sleep in if you say you are unwell and homeless at a city hospital (from my very good friend who works at one of these hospitals in another major city). IDK how some of you say we have no social services or free stuff for those down an out. We can do more for homeless and working poor unable to afford housing for sure. But homelessness problem isn't about lack of housing per se, but as much about drug abuse epidemic and mental health epidemic. IDK about Europe, but there also huge discrepancy when it comes to opportunities and available services between poor rural areas and poor urban areas. Rural poverty isn't getting much spotlight.

[Anonymous]

My very young cousin, mom of two little kids, from a family of rabid Republicans, is currently using gofundme to try to pay for her OOP costs for her double masectomy and chemo. Insurance doesn't cut it. How pro life are we if we don't save a young mom from breast cancer?

Sorry but we suck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the components of the social mobility index. It is very heavily weighted towards social safety net provisions. I see very few components on the list that would correspond with what most in the US would associate with opportunities to be socially mobile.

If the #1 predictor of social mobility is education, then free or lower cost university education has quite a bit to do with social mobility.

Again, if Europe has so much access to university education, then where is all the innovation out of countries like Denmark, Netherlands, etc. Where were they to invent vaccines that saved the planet from COVID? Once again, the technology used to save the world on its knees was fundamentally based on American technology and scientific discovery.

Are you kidding me, PP?

https://www.wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/wipo_pub_gii_2021/dk.pdf
https://www.wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/wipo_pub_gii_2021/nl.pdf

Do I have to repeat myself? Have you looked at the trash methodology used to calculate this 'innovation index' ? What a joke:


“Ease of Paying Taxes“, “Electricity Output“ (half-weightage) and “Ease of Protecting Minority Investors” are factors alongside “Ease of Getting Credit” and “Venture Capital Deals“

They look quite solid actually.

Data notes
Scientific publications captures the number of peer-reviewed
articles published in the Social Sciences Citation Index (SSCI)
and Science Citation Index Expanded (SCIE). Source: Web of
Science (Clarivate), https://apps.webofknowledge.com.

R&D expenditures captures R&D expenditures worldwide in PPPadjusted constant 2015 prices. The 2019 values were calculated
using available real data of gross expenditure on R&D (GERD) and
business enterprise expenditure on R&D (BERD) at the country level
from the UNESCO Institute for Statistics (UIS) online database, the
OECD’s Main Science and Technology Indicators (MSTI) database
(March 2021 update) and Eurostat. For those countries for which
data were not available for 2019, the 2019 data were estimated
using the last observation carried forward (LOCF) method.

International patent filings refers to the total number of
patent applications filed through the WIPO-administered
Patent Cooperation Treaty. Source: WIPO IP Statistics
Data Center, https://www3.wipo.int/ipstats.

Venture capital deals refers to the absolute number of VC deals
received by companies located in the region. Source: Refinitiv, Eikon
data on private equity and venture capital, https://www.refinitiv.
com/en/products/eikon-trading-software/private-equity-data.

Microchip transistor count refers to the number of transistors
on the most advanced commercially available microchips
in a given year. Source: Karl Rupp, data available at https://
github.com/karlrupp/microprocessor-trend-data.

Costs of renewable energy captures the global weighted average
levelized electricity cost of solar photovoltaics and onshore wind.
Source: International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA), https://www.
irena.org/publications/2020/Jun/Renewable-Power-Costs-in-2019.

Drug approvals refers to the number of new drug approved
by the US Federal Drug Administration (FDA). The data
include both small molecule drugs and biologics. Source:
FDA, https://www.fda.gov/media/135307/download.
Labor productivity refers to the world total of output per
hour worked, as estimated by The Conference Board. Source:
The Conference Board Total Economy Database™, https://
conference-board.org/data/economydatabase.

Life expectancy refers to the number of years a newborn infant would
live if prevailing patterns of mortality at the time of its birth were to stay
the same throughout its life. Source: World Development Indicators,
https://databank.worldbank.org/source/world-development-indicators.

Carbon dioxide emissions refers to fossil emissions,
excluding carbonation, for the world, measured in
billion tons of CO2 per year. Source: The Global Carbon
Budget 2020, https://doi.org/10.18160/gcp-2020.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the components of the social mobility index. It is very heavily weighted towards social safety net provisions. I see very few components on the list that would correspond with what most in the US would associate with opportunities to be socially mobile.

If the #1 predictor of social mobility is education, then free or lower cost university education has quite a bit to do with social mobility.

Again, if Europe has so much access to university education, then where is all the innovation out of countries like Denmark, Netherlands, etc. Where were they to invent vaccines that saved the planet from COVID? Once again, the technology used to save the world on its knees was fundamentally based on American technology and scientific discovery.

Are you kidding me, PP?

https://www.wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/wipo_pub_gii_2021/dk.pdf
https://www.wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/wipo_pub_gii_2021/nl.pdf

Do I have to repeat myself? Have you looked at the trash methodology used to calculate this 'innovation index' ? What a joke:


“Ease of Paying Taxes“, “Electricity Output“ (half-weightage) and “Ease of Protecting Minority Investors” are factors alongside “Ease of Getting Credit” and “Venture Capital Deals“

They look quite solid actually.

Data notes
Scientific publications captures the number of peer-reviewed
articles published in the Social Sciences Citation Index (SSCI)
and Science Citation Index Expanded (SCIE). Source: Web of
Science (Clarivate), https://apps.webofknowledge.com.

R&D expenditures captures R&D expenditures worldwide in PPPadjusted constant 2015 prices. The 2019 values were calculated
using available real data of gross expenditure on R&D (GERD) and
business enterprise expenditure on R&D (BERD) at the country level
from the UNESCO Institute for Statistics (UIS) online database, the
OECD’s Main Science and Technology Indicators (MSTI) database
(March 2021 update) and Eurostat. For those countries for which
data were not available for 2019, the 2019 data were estimated
using the last observation carried forward (LOCF) method.

International patent filings refers to the total number of
patent applications filed through the WIPO-administered
Patent Cooperation Treaty. Source: WIPO IP Statistics
Data Center, https://www3.wipo.int/ipstats.

Venture capital deals refers to the absolute number of VC deals
received by companies located in the region. Source: Refinitiv, Eikon
data on private equity and venture capital, https://www.refinitiv.
com/en/products/eikon-trading-software/private-equity-data.

Microchip transistor count refers to the number of transistors
on the most advanced commercially available microchips
in a given year. Source: Karl Rupp, data available at https://
github.com/karlrupp/microprocessor-trend-data.

Costs of renewable energy captures the global weighted average
levelized electricity cost of solar photovoltaics and onshore wind.
Source: International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA), https://www.
irena.org/publications/2020/Jun/Renewable-Power-Costs-in-2019.

Drug approvals refers to the number of new drug approved
by the US Federal Drug Administration (FDA). The data
include both small molecule drugs and biologics. Source:
FDA, https://www.fda.gov/media/135307/download.
Labor productivity refers to the world total of output per
hour worked, as estimated by The Conference Board. Source:
The Conference Board Total Economy Database™, https://
conference-board.org/data/economydatabase.

Life expectancy refers to the number of years a newborn infant would
live if prevailing patterns of mortality at the time of its birth were to stay
the same throughout its life. Source: World Development Indicators,
https://databank.worldbank.org/source/world-development-indicators.

Carbon dioxide emissions refers to fossil emissions,
excluding carbonation, for the world, measured in
billion tons of CO2 per year. Source: The Global Carbon
Budget 2020, https://doi.org/10.18160/gcp-2020.

Laughable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Netherlands is probably the best country when you add everything together that I care about: political and social freedom, a functional economy, excellent urban planning, health (not just access to affordable healthcare but an actually healthy population), moderately regulated capitalism, an educated and multilingual population, and at least the younger generation is less racist.

I should also add - it is well known that Netherlands has a problem with very low incomes and high costs for housing/rent. If you don't make enough, you get govt subsidies to afford housing. What do you think the net result is? People just work part time or hardly at all, because there is zero motivation to work full time and be more productive since you'll be taxed more and lose subsidies for housing that results in no improvement in disposable income. When's the last time you've ever heard about any great new technological advances or business leadership come out of the Netherlands? I mean I guess if you are fine with coasting through a mediocre life with low salaries and no chance of social mobility in exchange for the govt providing all basic necessities, ok.

At least 90% of people in the US live "mediocre" lifestyles.

When was the last time the US made top 10 most happiest countries? Netherlands is always in the top 10.

Here are the top 10 countries and their score:

Finland- 7.821
Denmark- 7.636
Iceland- 7.557
Switzerland- 7.512
Netherlands- 7.415
Luxembourg- 7.404
Sweden- 7.384
Norway- 7.365
Israel- 7.364
New Zealand- 7.200


US #16 - behind Canada and the UK

What good is all the "advancements" when so many Americans are unhappy?

So your measurement for best country to live in is based on some subjective measure like 'happiness', lol. The US is far more innovative than the Netherlands and pretty much all of Europe. Look, if you want a mediocre lifestyle with extremely low incomes, high levels of taxation, high costs of living, no chance of ever climbing the wealth ladder, and having the govt take care of all basic necessities in life for you, that's fine - go move to Europe and the Netherlands. If you want much higher incomes, lower levels of taxation, lower costs of living and less safety nets from the govt in exchange for better opportunities to climb the wealth ladder, the stock with the US. Believe it or not, many of US would rather control our wealth than want the govt to do it. My wife makes $95k after her base salary her plus bonus for just being an administrative staff member. Tell me where in Europe she'd get that kind of salary. It doesn't exist and she'd be lucky to make 30k euros before taxes. I'm sure there are millions of Americans living medicore lives - the point is though that you are least have the opportunity to climb the ladder in the US while it is impossible to climb the ladder in a country like the Netherlands because there is zero innovation going on that builds wealth for the country. My father immigrated here with virtually $0 and a high school education. He started as a bus boy at a local restaurant. He eventually learned English, made it through community college and became a nurse. It was enough to send his children both to university. My brother started his own extremely successful business. I earned my PhD in engineering. My father's kids will likely retire with well over $1M in wealth, and our kids will be even better off than us. We have climbed the wealth ladder because of opportunities in the US and because the US rewards education and drive. I'm sorry there are unhappy Americans out there.m, but there are plenty of us out here in the US who have made it.

Two things. It's sort of telling that you think it was a huge thing to send children to university, when in most of Europe you wouldn't have had to save your entire life to educate your children. They'd be able to enter university and it would not have been a financial burden for the family.

And second, the Global Social Mobility index disagrees with you because it ranks the US as #27, behind most of Europe.

+1

https://reports.weforum.org/social-mobility-report-2020/social-mobility-rankings/

Denmark is #1. Netherlands is #6. USA all the way down at #27.

What’s interesting is that Northern Europe consistently wins on metrics provided by data but USA wins on rags-to-riches anecdotes. I’m not saying the USA is terrible. I think the USA beats Northern Europe on general diversity, entertainment, and certainly geographic diversity and better weather. It’s not all the abject poverty of the rundown neighborhoods of Detroit or impoverished Appalachia or Cancer Alley in Louisiana. But it’s not all McLean Virginia either. For every single rags-to-riches story of an immigrant coming with $10 and starting a business and selling products to defense contractors and living in a northern Virginia McMansion, there’s ten stories of families who never break out of the cycle of poverty, and 100 stories of just normal people who are attempting to climb the ladder but never quite make it there, but give up all their mental and physical health in their pursuit to do so.

It’s not JUST that the American Dream is hard, but that it is impossible for 99% by design. By definition only 1% can be in the 1%.

If that 1% shot is the most important thing to you, then by all means, of course you think America is the best. But does America’s collection of anecdotes translate to overall greater happiness, health, quality of life, and social mobility? The data states otherwise.

What a ridiculous comparison. As if it is fair to compare a country with 330+ million people to tiny countries like Denmark and the Netherlands 20-50x smaller populations. It's almost as if scaling out wealth and combating poverty is harder when you have 50x the size. Gee, who knew? Name another country in the world the size of the US that provides anywhere near the same level of median incomes per capita. I'll wait.

DP.. do you understand OP's question? It's not "do you believe the US is the best country in the world compared to the same size country".. it's a general question compared to *all* countries in the world.

In general, there are other countries where their people are healthier, safer and happier than the general population in the US.

Compared to all the developed countries in the world, only the US has a high rate of illiteracy, bankruptcy from medical bills, more gun deaths per capita.

That doesn't mean the US is complete trash. Of course not. You can have a good life in the US *if* you have enough money, and live in an affluent area with low crime.

But a lot of people in the US don't have enough money to cover everything.. from healthcare costs, housing, to education. That's why we have so many people with college debt, high number of medical bankruptcies. Heck, you are not even immune to school shootings even if you live in a nice suburban area.

We have friends in the UK. They *never ever* worry about school shootings. Here, it's always in the back of my mind. Today, my kids' school is going through a lockdown/shelter in place drill. I feel so sad for them that this is their reality compared to my friends' kids who never have to worry about sh1t like that.

I'm.glad you have friends in the UK who don't worry about shootings. Meanwhile, they're probably worried about jobs and being able to afford to live with double digit inflation and the British pound crashing. Holy Toledo, have you seen what's happened to the pound today?

Why is everyone fleeing the European continent for investment? The outlook over there is very bleak.

nope, they don't fret over jobs. They know they can still go see a doctor and get medical care if they lose their job. They also have council housing, if they need it, but none of them need it. They also have better mass transit options than we do, and many take the train/bus to work.

Ups/downs hit all countries. Have you seen our inflation rates? We also had huge spikes in gas prices. When we were in the UK over the summer, the cost of gas (petrol) there was not that much higher than in the US.

Is *everyone* fleeing the European continent for investment? I hadn't heard that. So, everyone in Europe is unemployed?

If you are on medicare and qualify for the full extent of it, you get better care in the USA than you would in the countries with socialized medicine. They aren't as focused on servicing those at the end of life or with chronic ailments unless they have $$$. UK has private medical care as well, some people need to supplement, so it's not really free. If you are dirt poor old person in a big city you probably get the best medical services and availability and procedures and medicine without paying anything at all. If you are below 65 and/or have some assets you will be bled dry if you have major medical issues and cannot afford high premium and deductible insurance plans.

True, in the USA insurance is sort of tied to your job, but you can buy your own private plans or corporate plans if you are self employed. I used to buy private high deductible insurance. Paid out of pocket (at discounted price at least) for most of my routine medical care and only got coverage for major things like childbirth, surgery, etc. Even then I had to fight for some rates if hospitals switch their affiliations, etc. It does take a lot to be educated in how to efficiently use medical system here, be aware of billing practices, in-network, out of network affiliations and changes that can happen in the middle of you receiving care, be vigilant asking for prices or coverage confirmation before receiving treatments, etc. You can't just walk in and get care and not worry about receiving a bill you might be fighting for hours on end calling customer service even if it's nothing major. God forbid you are seriously hurt and end up in the hospital, you have to stress out about how your coverage will work while you are struggling to stay alive.

On the other hand... If you are a hobo you can just walk into any city hospital and get free care and a free hospital bed for as long as you need, no strings attached. Also, you can come to the hospital and get a bed just to sleep in if you say you are unwell and homeless at a city hospital (from my very good friend who works at one of these hospitals in another major city). IDK how some of you say we have no social services or free stuff for those down an out. We can do more for homeless and working poor unable to afford housing for sure. But homelessness problem isn't about lack of housing per se, but as much about drug abuse epidemic and mental health epidemic. IDK about Europe, but there also huge discrepancy when it comes to opportunities and available services between poor rural areas and poor urban areas. Rural poverty isn't getting much spotlight.

You can get stabilized at the hospital. But you don't get treated. Try getting a cancer treatment plan or major surgery (not urgent) just walking in from the street. Ain't nobody giving you a heart transplant when you're a hobo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the components of the social mobility index. It is very heavily weighted towards social safety net provisions. I see very few components on the list that would correspond with what most in the US would associate with opportunities to be socially mobile.

If the #1 predictor of social mobility is education, then free or lower cost university education has quite a bit to do with social mobility.

Again, if Europe has so much access to university education, then where is all the innovation out of countries like Denmark, Netherlands, etc. Where were they to invent vaccines that saved the planet from COVID? Once again, the technology used to save the world on its knees was fundamentally based on American technology and scientific discovery.

Are you kidding me, PP?

https://www.wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/wipo_pub_gii_2021/dk.pdf
https://www.wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/wipo_pub_gii_2021/nl.pdf

Do I have to repeat myself? Have you looked at the trash methodology used to calculate this 'innovation index' ? What a joke:


“Ease of Paying Taxes“, “Electricity Output“ (half-weightage) and “Ease of Protecting Minority Investors” are factors alongside “Ease of Getting Credit” and “Venture Capital Deals“

They look quite solid actually.

Data notes
Scientific publications captures the number of peer-reviewed
articles published in the Social Sciences Citation Index (SSCI)
and Science Citation Index Expanded (SCIE). Source: Web of
Science (Clarivate), https://apps.webofknowledge.com.

R&D expenditures captures R&D expenditures worldwide in PPPadjusted constant 2015 prices. The 2019 values were calculated
using available real data of gross expenditure on R&D (GERD) and
business enterprise expenditure on R&D (BERD) at the country level
from the UNESCO Institute for Statistics (UIS) online database, the
OECD’s Main Science and Technology Indicators (MSTI) database
(March 2021 update) and Eurostat. For those countries for which
data were not available for 2019, the 2019 data were estimated
using the last observation carried forward (LOCF) method.

International patent filings refers to the total number of
patent applications filed through the WIPO-administered
Patent Cooperation Treaty. Source: WIPO IP Statistics
Data Center, https://www3.wipo.int/ipstats.

Venture capital deals refers to the absolute number of VC deals
received by companies located in the region. Source: Refinitiv, Eikon
data on private equity and venture capital, https://www.refinitiv.
com/en/products/eikon-trading-software/private-equity-data.

Microchip transistor count refers to the number of transistors
on the most advanced commercially available microchips
in a given year. Source: Karl Rupp, data available at https://
github.com/karlrupp/microprocessor-trend-data.

Costs of renewable energy captures the global weighted average
levelized electricity cost of solar photovoltaics and onshore wind.
Source: International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA), https://www.
irena.org/publications/2020/Jun/Renewable-Power-Costs-in-2019.

Drug approvals refers to the number of new drug approved
by the US Federal Drug Administration (FDA). The data
include both small molecule drugs and biologics. Source:
FDA, https://www.fda.gov/media/135307/download.
Labor productivity refers to the world total of output per
hour worked, as estimated by The Conference Board. Source:
The Conference Board Total Economy Database™, https://
conference-board.org/data/economydatabase.

Life expectancy refers to the number of years a newborn infant would
live if prevailing patterns of mortality at the time of its birth were to stay
the same throughout its life. Source: World Development Indicators,
https://databank.worldbank.org/source/world-development-indicators.

Carbon dioxide emissions refers to fossil emissions,
excluding carbonation, for the world, measured in
billion tons of CO2 per year. Source: The Global Carbon
Budget 2020, https://doi.org/10.18160/gcp-2020.

Laughable.

In your first criticism of the index you asked about publications and patent filings. I've shared the indicators that place these very same indicators very high on the list.

But it's still "laughable" because it doesn't support your point of view.

Why don't you bring your own evidence then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Netherlands is probably the best country when you add everything together that I care about: political and social freedom, a functional economy, excellent urban planning, health (not just access to affordable healthcare but an actually healthy population), moderately regulated capitalism, an educated and multilingual population, and at least the younger generation is less racist.

I should also add - it is well known that Netherlands has a problem with very low incomes and high costs for housing/rent. If you don't make enough, you get govt subsidies to afford housing. What do you think the net result is? People just work part time or hardly at all, because there is zero motivation to work full time and be more productive since you'll be taxed more and lose subsidies for housing that results in no improvement in disposable income. When's the last time you've ever heard about any great new technological advances or business leadership come out of the Netherlands? I mean I guess if you are fine with coasting through a mediocre life with low salaries and no chance of social mobility in exchange for the govt providing all basic necessities, ok.

At least 90% of people in the US live "mediocre" lifestyles.

When was the last time the US made top 10 most happiest countries? Netherlands is always in the top 10.

Here are the top 10 countries and their score:

Finland- 7.821
Denmark- 7.636
Iceland- 7.557
Switzerland- 7.512
Netherlands- 7.415
Luxembourg- 7.404
Sweden- 7.384
Norway- 7.365
Israel- 7.364
New Zealand- 7.200


US #16 - behind Canada and the UK

What good is all the "advancements" when so many Americans are unhappy?

So your measurement for best country to live in is based on some subjective measure like 'happiness', lol. The US is far more innovative than the Netherlands and pretty much all of Europe. Look, if you want a mediocre lifestyle with extremely low incomes, high levels of taxation, high costs of living, no chance of ever climbing the wealth ladder, and having the govt take care of all basic necessities in life for you, that's fine - go move to Europe and the Netherlands. If you want much higher incomes, lower levels of taxation, lower costs of living and less safety nets from the govt in exchange for better opportunities to climb the wealth ladder, the stock with the US. Believe it or not, many of US would rather control our wealth than want the govt to do it. My wife makes $95k after her base salary her plus bonus for just being an administrative staff member. Tell me where in Europe she'd get that kind of salary. It doesn't exist and she'd be lucky to make 30k euros before taxes. I'm sure there are millions of Americans living medicore lives - the point is though that you are least have the opportunity to climb the ladder in the US while it is impossible to climb the ladder in a country like the Netherlands because there is zero innovation going on that builds wealth for the country. My father immigrated here with virtually $0 and a high school education. He started as a bus boy at a local restaurant. He eventually learned English, made it through community college and became a nurse. It was enough to send his children both to university. My brother started his own extremely successful business. I earned my PhD in engineering. My father's kids will likely retire with well over $1M in wealth, and our kids will be even better off than us. We have climbed the wealth ladder because of opportunities in the US and because the US rewards education and drive. I'm sorry there are unhappy Americans out there.m, but there are plenty of us out here in the US who have made it.

Two things. It's sort of telling that you think it was a huge thing to send children to university, when in most of Europe you wouldn't have had to save your entire life to educate your children. They'd be able to enter university and it would not have been a financial burden for the family.

And second, the Global Social Mobility index disagrees with you because it ranks the US as #27, behind most of Europe.

+1

https://reports.weforum.org/social-mobility-report-2020/social-mobility-rankings/

Denmark is #1. Netherlands is #6. USA all the way down at #27.

What’s interesting is that Northern Europe consistently wins on metrics provided by data but USA wins on rags-to-riches anecdotes. I’m not saying the USA is terrible. I think the USA beats Northern Europe on general diversity, entertainment, and certainly geographic diversity and better weather. It’s not all the abject poverty of the rundown neighborhoods of Detroit or impoverished Appalachia or Cancer Alley in Louisiana. But it’s not all McLean Virginia either. For every single rags-to-riches story of an immigrant coming with $10 and starting a business and selling products to defense contractors and living in a northern Virginia McMansion, there’s ten stories of families who never break out of the cycle of poverty, and 100 stories of just normal people who are attempting to climb the ladder but never quite make it there, but give up all their mental and physical health in their pursuit to do so.

It’s not JUST that the American Dream is hard, but that it is impossible for 99% by design. By definition only 1% can be in the 1%.

If that 1% shot is the most important thing to you, then by all means, of course you think America is the best. But does America’s collection of anecdotes translate to overall greater happiness, health, quality of life, and social mobility? The data states otherwise.

What a ridiculous comparison. As if it is fair to compare a country with 330+ million people to tiny countries like Denmark and the Netherlands 20-50x smaller populations. It's almost as if scaling out wealth and combating poverty is harder when you have 50x the size. Gee, who knew? Name another country in the world the size of the US that provides anywhere near the same level of median incomes per capita. I'll wait.

DP.. do you understand OP's question? It's not "do you believe the US is the best country in the world compared to the same size country".. it's a general question compared to *all* countries in the world.

In general, there are other countries where their people are healthier, safer and happier than the general population in the US.

Compared to all the developed countries in the world, only the US has a high rate of illiteracy, bankruptcy from medical bills, more gun deaths per capita.

That doesn't mean the US is complete trash. Of course not. You can have a good life in the US *if* you have enough money, and live in an affluent area with low crime.

But a lot of people in the US don't have enough money to cover everything.. from healthcare costs, housing, to education. That's why we have so many people with college debt, high number of medical bankruptcies. Heck, you are not even immune to school shootings even if you live in a nice suburban area.

We have friends in the UK. They *never ever* worry about school shootings. Here, it's always in the back of my mind. Today, my kids' school is going through a lockdown/shelter in place drill. I feel so sad for them that this is their reality compared to my friends' kids who never have to worry about sh1t like that.

I'm.glad you have friends in the UK who don't worry about shootings. Meanwhile, they're probably worried about jobs and being able to afford to live with double digit inflation and the British pound crashing. Holy Toledo, have you seen what's happened to the pound today?

Why is everyone fleeing the European continent for investment? The outlook over there is very bleak.

nope, they don't fret over jobs. They know they can still go see a doctor and get medical care if they lose their job. They also have council housing, if they need it, but none of them need it. They also have better mass transit options than we do, and many take the train/bus to work.

Ups/downs hit all countries. Have you seen our inflation rates? We also had huge spikes in gas prices. When we were in the UK over the summer, the cost of gas (petrol) there was not that much higher than in the US.

Is *everyone* fleeing the European continent for investment? I hadn't heard that. So, everyone in Europe is unemployed?

Yeah, tell that to my UK relatives. LOL. They don't worry about any of that. They have free medical care, regardless of job, just to name one. Also better infrastructure (as PP notes). Many don't need cars if they don't want them.

There is a lot more density in Europe and better transit options overall. We have a pretty robust public transit in high density places too, NYC, for example. You can go anywhere via subway, bus, train, including trips to the countryside, botanical gardens, and city beaches. But the world outside isn't so friendly for those without cars...` I used to live in DC, NYC, SF without a car just fine. But it does limit you a lot if you want to go outside of your urban cluster.

I don't know how good socialized medicine is in every country that uses it. I would expect there are limitations and it's more like HMO if you want free care, long waits for specialists, jumping through hoops to get imaging exams like MRIs, CT scans, advanced blood work. I heard that some people buy private insurance in addition to free healthcare to customize their treatments and have better access, better facilities, top specialists, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Netherlands is probably the best country when you add everything together that I care about: political and social freedom, a functional economy, excellent urban planning, health (not just access to affordable healthcare but an actually healthy population), moderately regulated capitalism, an educated and multilingual population, and at least the younger generation is less racist.

I should also add - it is well known that Netherlands has a problem with very low incomes and high costs for housing/rent. If you don't make enough, you get govt subsidies to afford housing. What do you think the net result is? People just work part time or hardly at all, because there is zero motivation to work full time and be more productive since you'll be taxed more and lose subsidies for housing that results in no improvement in disposable income. When's the last time you've ever heard about any great new technological advances or business leadership come out of the Netherlands? I mean I guess if you are fine with coasting through a mediocre life with low salaries and no chance of social mobility in exchange for the govt providing all basic necessities, ok.

At least 90% of people in the US live "mediocre" lifestyles.

When was the last time the US made top 10 most happiest countries? Netherlands is always in the top 10.

Here are the top 10 countries and their score:

Finland- 7.821
Denmark- 7.636
Iceland- 7.557
Switzerland- 7.512
Netherlands- 7.415
Luxembourg- 7.404
Sweden- 7.384
Norway- 7.365
Israel- 7.364
New Zealand- 7.200


US #16 - behind Canada and the UK

What good is all the "advancements" when so many Americans are unhappy?

So your measurement for best country to live in is based on some subjective measure like 'happiness', lol. The US is far more innovative than the Netherlands and pretty much all of Europe. Look, if you want a mediocre lifestyle with extremely low incomes, high levels of taxation, high costs of living, no chance of ever climbing the wealth ladder, and having the govt take care of all basic necessities in life for you, that's fine - go move to Europe and the Netherlands. If you want much higher incomes, lower levels of taxation, lower costs of living and less safety nets from the govt in exchange for better opportunities to climb the wealth ladder, the stock with the US. Believe it or not, many of US would rather control our wealth than want the govt to do it. My wife makes $95k after her base salary her plus bonus for just being an administrative staff member. Tell me where in Europe she'd get that kind of salary. It doesn't exist and she'd be lucky to make 30k euros before taxes. I'm sure there are millions of Americans living medicore lives - the point is though that you are least have the opportunity to climb the ladder in the US while it is impossible to climb the ladder in a country like the Netherlands because there is zero innovation going on that builds wealth for the country. My father immigrated here with virtually $0 and a high school education. He started as a bus boy at a local restaurant. He eventually learned English, made it through community college and became a nurse. It was enough to send his children both to university. My brother started his own extremely successful business. I earned my PhD in engineering. My father's kids will likely retire with well over $1M in wealth, and our kids will be even better off than us. We have climbed the wealth ladder because of opportunities in the US and because the US rewards education and drive. I'm sorry there are unhappy Americans out there.m, but there are plenty of us out here in the US who have made it.

Two things. It's sort of telling that you think it was a huge thing to send children to university, when in most of Europe you wouldn't have had to save your entire life to educate your children. They'd be able to enter university and it would not have been a financial burden for the family.

And second, the Global Social Mobility index disagrees with you because it ranks the US as #27, behind most of Europe.

+1

https://reports.weforum.org/social-mobility-report-2020/social-mobility-rankings/

Denmark is #1. Netherlands is #6. USA all the way down at #27.

What’s interesting is that Northern Europe consistently wins on metrics provided by data but USA wins on rags-to-riches anecdotes. I’m not saying the USA is terrible. I think the USA beats Northern Europe on general diversity, entertainment, and certainly geographic diversity and better weather. It’s not all the abject poverty of the rundown neighborhoods of Detroit or impoverished Appalachia or Cancer Alley in Louisiana. But it’s not all McLean Virginia either. For every single rags-to-riches story of an immigrant coming with $10 and starting a business and selling products to defense contractors and living in a northern Virginia McMansion, there’s ten stories of families who never break out of the cycle of poverty, and 100 stories of just normal people who are attempting to climb the ladder but never quite make it there, but give up all their mental and physical health in their pursuit to do so.

It’s not JUST that the American Dream is hard, but that it is impossible for 99% by design. By definition only 1% can be in the 1%.

If that 1% shot is the most important thing to you, then by all means, of course you think America is the best. But does America’s collection of anecdotes translate to overall greater happiness, health, quality of life, and social mobility? The data states otherwise.

What a ridiculous comparison. As if it is fair to compare a country with 330+ million people to tiny countries like Denmark and the Netherlands 20-50x smaller populations. It's almost as if scaling out wealth and combating poverty is harder when you have 50x the size. Gee, who knew? Name another country in the world the size of the US that provides anywhere near the same level of median incomes per capita. I'll wait.

DP.. do you understand OP's question? It's not "do you believe the US is the best country in the world compared to the same size country".. it's a general question compared to *all* countries in the world.

In general, there are other countries where their people are healthier, safer and happier than the general population in the US.

Compared to all the developed countries in the world, only the US has a high rate of illiteracy, bankruptcy from medical bills, more gun deaths per capita.

That doesn't mean the US is complete trash. Of course not. You can have a good life in the US *if* you have enough money, and live in an affluent area with low crime.

But a lot of people in the US don't have enough money to cover everything.. from healthcare costs, housing, to education. That's why we have so many people with college debt, high number of medical bankruptcies. Heck, you are not even immune to school shootings even if you live in a nice suburban area.

We have friends in the UK. They *never ever* worry about school shootings. Here, it's always in the back of my mind. Today, my kids' school is going through a lockdown/shelter in place drill. I feel so sad for them that this is their reality compared to my friends' kids who never have to worry about sh1t like that.

I'm.glad you have friends in the UK who don't worry about shootings. Meanwhile, they're probably worried about jobs and being able to afford to live with double digit inflation and the British pound crashing. Holy Toledo, have you seen what's happened to the pound today?

Why is everyone fleeing the European continent for investment? The outlook over there is very bleak.

nope, they don't fret over jobs. They know they can still go see a doctor and get medical care if they lose their job. They also have council housing, if they need it, but none of them need it. They also have better mass transit options than we do, and many take the train/bus to work.

Ups/downs hit all countries. Have you seen our inflation rates? We also had huge spikes in gas prices. When we were in the UK over the summer, the cost of gas (petrol) there was not that much higher than in the US.

Is *everyone* fleeing the European continent for investment? I hadn't heard that. So, everyone in Europe is unemployed?

If you are on medicare and qualify for the full extent of it, you get better care in the USA than you would in the countries with socialized medicine. They aren't as focused on servicing those at the end of life or with chronic ailments unless they have $$$. UK has private medical care as well, some people need to supplement, so it's not really free. If you are dirt poor old person in a big city you probably get the best medical services and availability and procedures and medicine without paying anything at all. If you are below 65 and/or have some assets you will be bled dry if you have major medical issues and cannot afford high premium and deductible insurance plans.

True, in the USA insurance is sort of tied to your job, but you can buy your own private plans or corporate plans if you are self employed. I used to buy private high deductible insurance. Paid out of pocket (at discounted price at least) for most of my routine medical care and only got coverage for major things like childbirth, surgery, etc. Even then I had to fight for some rates if hospitals switch their affiliations, etc. It does take a lot to be educated in how to efficiently use medical system here, be aware of billing practices, in-network, out of network affiliations and changes that can happen in the middle of you receiving care, be vigilant asking for prices or coverage confirmation before receiving treatments, etc. You can't just walk in and get care and not worry about receiving a bill you might be fighting for hours on end calling customer service even if it's nothing major. God forbid you are seriously hurt and end up in the hospital, you have to stress out about how your coverage will work while you are struggling to stay alive.

Just fyi that before Obama care there was NO PRIVATE PLAN available that covered labor and delivery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Netherlands is probably the best country when you add everything together that I care about: political and social freedom, a functional economy, excellent urban planning, health (not just access to affordable healthcare but an actually healthy population), moderately regulated capitalism, an educated and multilingual population, and at least the younger generation is less racist.

I should also add - it is well known that Netherlands has a problem with very low incomes and high costs for housing/rent. If you don't make enough, you get govt subsidies to afford housing. What do you think the net result is? People just work part time or hardly at all, because there is zero motivation to work full time and be more productive since you'll be taxed more and lose subsidies for housing that results in no improvement in disposable income. When's the last time you've ever heard about any great new technological advances or business leadership come out of the Netherlands? I mean I guess if you are fine with coasting through a mediocre life with low salaries and no chance of social mobility in exchange for the govt providing all basic necessities, ok.

At least 90% of people in the US live "mediocre" lifestyles.

When was the last time the US made top 10 most happiest countries? Netherlands is always in the top 10.

Here are the top 10 countries and their score:

Finland- 7.821
Denmark- 7.636
Iceland- 7.557
Switzerland- 7.512
Netherlands- 7.415
Luxembourg- 7.404
Sweden- 7.384
Norway- 7.365
Israel- 7.364
New Zealand- 7.200


US #16 - behind Canada and the UK

What good is all the "advancements" when so many Americans are unhappy?

So your measurement for best country to live in is based on some subjective measure like 'happiness', lol. The US is far more innovative than the Netherlands and pretty much all of Europe. Look, if you want a mediocre lifestyle with extremely low incomes, high levels of taxation, high costs of living, no chance of ever climbing the wealth ladder, and having the govt take care of all basic necessities in life for you, that's fine - go move to Europe and the Netherlands. If you want much higher incomes, lower levels of taxation, lower costs of living and less safety nets from the govt in exchange for better opportunities to climb the wealth ladder, the stock with the US. Believe it or not, many of US would rather control our wealth than want the govt to do it. My wife makes $95k after her base salary her plus bonus for just being an administrative staff member. Tell me where in Europe she'd get that kind of salary. It doesn't exist and she'd be lucky to make 30k euros before taxes. I'm sure there are millions of Americans living medicore lives - the point is though that you are least have the opportunity to climb the ladder in the US while it is impossible to climb the ladder in a country like the Netherlands because there is zero innovation going on that builds wealth for the country. My father immigrated here with virtually $0 and a high school education. He started as a bus boy at a local restaurant. He eventually learned English, made it through community college and became a nurse. It was enough to send his children both to university. My brother started his own extremely successful business. I earned my PhD in engineering. My father's kids will likely retire with well over $1M in wealth, and our kids will be even better off than us. We have climbed the wealth ladder because of opportunities in the US and because the US rewards education and drive. I'm sorry there are unhappy Americans out there.m, but there are plenty of us out here in the US who have made it.

Two things. It's sort of telling that you think it was a huge thing to send children to university, when in most of Europe you wouldn't have had to save your entire life to educate your children. They'd be able to enter university and it would not have been a financial burden for the family.

And second, the Global Social Mobility index disagrees with you because it ranks the US as #27, behind most of Europe.

+1

https://reports.weforum.org/social-mobility-report-2020/social-mobility-rankings/

Denmark is #1. Netherlands is #6. USA all the way down at #27.

What’s interesting is that Northern Europe consistently wins on metrics provided by data but USA wins on rags-to-riches anecdotes. I’m not saying the USA is terrible. I think the USA beats Northern Europe on general diversity, entertainment, and certainly geographic diversity and better weather. It’s not all the abject poverty of the rundown neighborhoods of Detroit or impoverished Appalachia or Cancer Alley in Louisiana. But it’s not all McLean Virginia either. For every single rags-to-riches story of an immigrant coming with $10 and starting a business and selling products to defense contractors and living in a northern Virginia McMansion, there’s ten stories of families who never break out of the cycle of poverty, and 100 stories of just normal people who are attempting to climb the ladder but never quite make it there, but give up all their mental and physical health in their pursuit to do so.

It’s not JUST that the American Dream is hard, but that it is impossible for 99% by design. By definition only 1% can be in the 1%.

If that 1% shot is the most important thing to you, then by all means, of course you think America is the best. But does America’s collection of anecdotes translate to overall greater happiness, health, quality of life, and social mobility? The data states otherwise.

What a ridiculous comparison. As if it is fair to compare a country with 330+ million people to tiny countries like Denmark and the Netherlands 20-50x smaller populations. It's almost as if scaling out wealth and combating poverty is harder when you have 50x the size. Gee, who knew? Name another country in the world the size of the US that provides anywhere near the same level of median incomes per capita. I'll wait.

DP.. do you understand OP's question? It's not "do you believe the US is the best country in the world compared to the same size country".. it's a general question compared to *all* countries in the world.

In general, there are other countries where their people are healthier, safer and happier than the general population in the US.

Compared to all the developed countries in the world, only the US has a high rate of illiteracy, bankruptcy from medical bills, more gun deaths per capita.

That doesn't mean the US is complete trash. Of course not. You can have a good life in the US *if* you have enough money, and live in an affluent area with low crime.

But a lot of people in the US don't have enough money to cover everything.. from healthcare costs, housing, to education. That's why we have so many people with college debt, high number of medical bankruptcies. Heck, you are not even immune to school shootings even if you live in a nice suburban area.

We have friends in the UK. They *never ever* worry about school shootings. Here, it's always in the back of my mind. Today, my kids' school is going through a lockdown/shelter in place drill. I feel so sad for them that this is their reality compared to my friends' kids who never have to worry about sh1t like that.

I'm.glad you have friends in the UK who don't worry about shootings. Meanwhile, they're probably worried about jobs and being able to afford to live with double digit inflation and the British pound crashing. Holy Toledo, have you seen what's happened to the pound today?

Why is everyone fleeing the European continent for investment? The outlook over there is very bleak.

nope, they don't fret over jobs. They know they can still go see a doctor and get medical care if they lose their job. They also have council housing, if they need it, but none of them need it. They also have better mass transit options than we do, and many take the train/bus to work.

Ups/downs hit all countries. Have you seen our inflation rates? We also had huge spikes in gas prices. When we were in the UK over the summer, the cost of gas (petrol) there was not that much higher than in the US.

Is *everyone* fleeing the European continent for investment? I hadn't heard that. So, everyone in Europe is unemployed?

If you are on medicare and qualify for the full extent of it, you get better care in the USA than you would in the countries with socialized medicine. They aren't as focused on servicing those at the end of life or with chronic ailments unless they have $$$. UK has private medical care as well, some people need to supplement, so it's not really free. If you are dirt poor old person in a big city you probably get the best medical services and availability and procedures and medicine without paying anything at all. If you are below 65 and/or have some assets you will be bled dry if you have major medical issues and cannot afford high premium and deductible insurance plans.

True, in the USA insurance is sort of tied to your job, but you can buy your own private plans or corporate plans if you are self employed. I used to buy private high deductible insurance. Paid out of pocket (at discounted price at least) for most of my routine medical care and only got coverage for major things like childbirth, surgery, etc. Even then I had to fight for some rates if hospitals switch their affiliations, etc. It does take a lot to be educated in how to efficiently use medical system here, be aware of billing practices, in-network, out of network affiliations and changes that can happen in the middle of you receiving care, be vigilant asking for prices or coverage confirmation before receiving treatments, etc. You can't just walk in and get care and not worry about receiving a bill you might be fighting for hours on end calling customer service even if it's nothing major. God forbid you are seriously hurt and end up in the hospital, you have to stress out about how your coverage will work while you are struggling to stay alive.

On the other hand... If you are a hobo you can just walk into any city hospital and get free care and a free hospital bed for as long as you need, no strings attached. Also, you can come to the hospital and get a bed just to sleep in if you say you are unwell and homeless at a city hospital (from my very good friend who works at one of these hospitals in another major city). IDK how some of you say we have no social services or free stuff for those down an out. We can do more for homeless and working poor unable to afford housing for sure. But homelessness problem isn't about lack of housing per se, but as much about drug abuse epidemic and mental health epidemic. IDK about Europe, but there also huge discrepancy when it comes to opportunities and available services between poor rural areas and poor urban areas. Rural poverty isn't getting much spotlight.

You can get stabilized at the hospital. But you don't get treated. Try getting a cancer treatment plan or major surgery (not urgent) just walking in from the street. Ain't nobody giving you a heart transplant when you're a hobo.

You will get an urgent surgery though. You can literally get a heart surgery if you are failing, or burst appendix, or internal bleeding, brain surgery if extreme trauma, fix broken bones, etc. What I am saying is that people who work and pay for insurance often have to worry about how they will afford these URGENT life saving treatments, because they will be stuck with bills, while hobos will not have to worry about it. Yes, homeless they won't get an optional knee replacement surgery or an organ transplant (although I am not sure about that if life saving). I am also not sure if they absolutely get no access for cancer care, they may be referred to one of the specialized clinics that does some percentage of charity work or can enroll them into the experimental treatment studies, etc. Regular hospitals ERs don't provide the type of treatments you are talking about anyway.