T20 Universities list predictions

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Anonymous wrote:Based on earlier comments, it sounds like people want to base academic rankings on job placement and salary statistics. Those two don’t necessarily correlate. If you’re comparing an Ivy classics major to a State U CS major, the comparison makes no sense from an academic perspective, but the CS major will have a higher salary. What’s the point of the ROI focus? To make the arts look bad? Don’t people already know which majors pay? ROI is a dumb way to rate academic excellence.


College degree is useless waste of money if you serve at a restaurant or make coffee at Starbucks afterwards.
It's not everything but most important factor



It works the other way too. Anyone who pays too dollar for a degree in a field which pays high salaries regardless of where your degree is from is throwing away their money. When you can do just as well in engineering or CS with a degree from Stat U, why pay 2-3 times as much as much?


That is like saying why go to a Michelin star restaurant when you can go to McDonald's and get a meal at lower price.


Getting a CS degree from GMU is not same as a CS degree from CMU.



True. But getting a CS degree from Georgia Tech ($50K OOS) is comparable to a CS degree from CMU ($80K OOS).


If you need aid, CMU will award it. Not going to get anything from a highly-ranked public as an OOS.

What is considered highly ranked is Georgia Tech highly ranked?

Georgia Tech is ranked #5 in Computer Science. Is being #5 highly ranked in your dictionary?


Yes, but that’s one program. How is it’s classics program? That’s why it’s not a highly ranked overall.


Georgia Tech doesn't even have a Classics Department and offers no classes in Greek or Latin. That doesn't make it a weaker choice, unless that matters to you. Just like Dartmouth not having a major in business doesn't make it a weaker choice for those who don't care about that.


What if your kid goes in for CS and then changes their mind? Lots of kids do that. I went in for Economics and ended up switching to Chemistry. Never imagined I would do that in HS.


So Dartmouth is no good because it doesn't offer the business degree that Georgia Tech does?


Overall, Dartmouth provides a much better education and admits higher quality students than GTech. That doesn’t mean GTech isn’t good for a CS degree and getting a high-paying CS job after college. But for those in the market for prestigious educational credentials, Dartmouth beats GTech.


Honestly, this is the first time I am hearing this i.e "provides a much better education and admits higher quality students than GTech" about Dartmouth. I haven't heard anyone applying to Dartmouth for any major in NoVA region.


Dartmouth is a significant notch above GT. Just look at the stats of admitted students. And the undergraduate experience at Dartmouth is unparalleled with the possible exception of Princeton.


Dartmouth is a significant notch above GT in liberal arts. GT is a significant notch above Dartmouth in Engineering.


Dartmouth is many notches above GT, period.



Georgia Tech is no. 1, 2, 3 or 4 in the entire nation for aerospace engineering depending upon ranking service. Dartmouth is - not even in the running!


Aerospace engineering is a low profit margin business

Dartmouth grads become treasury secretaries

Do you know any gen x or boomers who were in aero?

Before space x and blue origin, the 80s and 90s and even 2000s were brutal for aero.

You are at the whim of shareholders who pressure ceos to cut costs.

I like GT as a school btw but you are making GT look bad by trying to shoehorn it into a weight class it doesn’t belong in


The peer group is extremely important for undergraduate education. Dartmouth's Ivy League peer group will be way superior to GT's peer group. It's a fact, not an assertion.

Besides, who cares about a bachelor's in aerospace engineering. It will be the PhD that counts not a generic bachelor's degree where you take a lot of non-specialized classes and call it aerospace engineering (ie work at airports servicing airplanes)
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:The gleeful posters predicting the demise of Vandy have clearly never spent a few days in deep blue Nashville.


Unfortunately for the citizens of deep blue Nashville laws are made by the state government which is pretty red.
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Anonymous wrote:Based on earlier comments, it sounds like people want to base academic rankings on job placement and salary statistics. Those two don’t necessarily correlate. If you’re comparing an Ivy classics major to a State U CS major, the comparison makes no sense from an academic perspective, but the CS major will have a higher salary. What’s the point of the ROI focus? To make the arts look bad? Don’t people already know which majors pay? ROI is a dumb way to rate academic excellence.


College degree is useless waste of money if you serve at a restaurant or make coffee at Starbucks afterwards.
It's not everything but most important factor



It works the other way too. Anyone who pays too dollar for a degree in a field which pays high salaries regardless of where your degree is from is throwing away their money. When you can do just as well in engineering or CS with a degree from Stat U, why pay 2-3 times as much as much?


That is like saying why go to a Michelin star restaurant when you can go to McDonald's and get a meal at lower price.


Getting a CS degree from GMU is not same as a CS degree from CMU.



True. But getting a CS degree from Georgia Tech ($50K OOS) is comparable to a CS degree from CMU ($80K OOS).


If you need aid, CMU will award it. Not going to get anything from a highly-ranked public as an OOS.

What is considered highly ranked is Georgia Tech highly ranked?

Georgia Tech is ranked #5 in Computer Science. Is being #5 highly ranked in your dictionary?


Yes, but that’s one program. How is it’s classics program? That’s why it’s not a highly ranked overall.


Georgia Tech doesn't even have a Classics Department and offers no classes in Greek or Latin. That doesn't make it a weaker choice, unless that matters to you. Just like Dartmouth not having a major in business doesn't make it a weaker choice for those who don't care about that.


What if your kid goes in for CS and then changes their mind? Lots of kids do that. I went in for Economics and ended up switching to Chemistry. Never imagined I would do that in HS.


So Dartmouth is no good because it doesn't offer the business degree that Georgia Tech does?


Overall, Dartmouth provides a much better education and admits higher quality students than GTech. That doesn’t mean GTech isn’t good for a CS degree and getting a high-paying CS job after college. But for those in the market for prestigious educational credentials, Dartmouth beats GTech.


Honestly, this is the first time I am hearing this i.e "provides a much better education and admits higher quality students than GTech" about Dartmouth. I haven't heard anyone applying to Dartmouth for any major in NoVA region.


Dartmouth is a significant notch above GT. Just look at the stats of admitted students. And the undergraduate experience at Dartmouth is unparalleled with the possible exception of Princeton.


Dartmouth is a significant notch above GT in liberal arts. GT is a significant notch above Dartmouth in Engineering.


Dartmouth is many notches above GT, period.



Georgia Tech is no. 1, 2, 3 or 4 in the entire nation for aerospace engineering depending upon ranking service. Dartmouth is - not even in the running!


Aerospace engineering is a low profit margin business

Dartmouth grads become treasury secretaries

Do you know any gen x or boomers who were in aero?

Before space x and blue origin, the 80s and 90s and even 2000s were brutal for aero.

You are at the whim of shareholders who pressure ceos to cut costs.

I like GT as a school btw but you are making GT look bad by trying to shoehorn it into a weight class it doesn’t belong in


The peer group is extremely important for undergraduate education. Dartmouth's Ivy League peer group will be way superior to GT's peer group. It's a fact, not an assertion.

Besides, who cares about a bachelor's in aerospace engineering. It will be the PhD that counts not a generic bachelor's degree where you take a lot of non-specialized classes and call it aerospace engineering (ie work at airports servicing airplanes)


Plus at Darty your DD's will have had to learn about having to deal with sexual harassment from profs, which is a life skill. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/06/us/dartmouth-sexual-abuse-settlement.html
Anonymous
Some of you are completely insane.
Anonymous
Emory, Washington U, Vandy, Rice and ND will fall.
Anonymous
There are some outraged posters here who are weirdly invested in cheerleading the Amtrak corridor schools. ie, "the NE schools."

To wit: let's accept, for the point of discussion, that every 18 yo high stats female will definitely eschew the T20 schools in NoAbortion states going forward (so, WashU, Vandy, Rice, maybe Duke? Notre Dame ... and watch out for Penn and Emory, in purple states).

Fine. Why does it follow that schools "in the NE" will be the ones who surge ahead? Nobody has mentioned USC, or Berkeley, etc.

Your bias is showing
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Anonymous wrote:Based on earlier comments, it sounds like people want to base academic rankings on job placement and salary statistics. Those two don’t necessarily correlate. If you’re comparing an Ivy classics major to a State U CS major, the comparison makes no sense from an academic perspective, but the CS major will have a higher salary. What’s the point of the ROI focus? To make the arts look bad? Don’t people already know which majors pay? ROI is a dumb way to rate academic excellence.


College degree is useless waste of money if you serve at a restaurant or make coffee at Starbucks afterwards.
It's not everything but most important factor



It works the other way too. Anyone who pays too dollar for a degree in a field which pays high salaries regardless of where your degree is from is throwing away their money. When you can do just as well in engineering or CS with a degree from Stat U, why pay 2-3 times as much as much?


That is like saying why go to a Michelin star restaurant when you can go to McDonald's and get a meal at lower price.


Getting a CS degree from GMU is not same as a CS degree from CMU.



True. But getting a CS degree from Georgia Tech ($50K OOS) is comparable to a CS degree from CMU ($80K OOS).


If you need aid, CMU will award it. Not going to get anything from a highly-ranked public as an OOS.

What is considered highly ranked is Georgia Tech highly ranked?

Georgia Tech is ranked #5 in Computer Science. Is being #5 highly ranked in your dictionary?


Yes, but that’s one program. How is it’s classics program? That’s why it’s not a highly ranked overall.


Georgia Tech doesn't even have a Classics Department and offers no classes in Greek or Latin. That doesn't make it a weaker choice, unless that matters to you. Just like Dartmouth not having a major in business doesn't make it a weaker choice for those who don't care about that.


What if your kid goes in for CS and then changes their mind? Lots of kids do that. I went in for Economics and ended up switching to Chemistry. Never imagined I would do that in HS.


So Dartmouth is no good because it doesn't offer the business degree that Georgia Tech does?


Overall, Dartmouth provides a much better education and admits higher quality students than GTech. That doesn’t mean GTech isn’t good for a CS degree and getting a high-paying CS job after college. But for those in the market for prestigious educational credentials, Dartmouth beats GTech.


Honestly, this is the first time I am hearing this i.e "provides a much better education and admits higher quality students than GTech" about Dartmouth. I haven't heard anyone applying to Dartmouth for any major in NoVA region.


Dartmouth is a significant notch above GT. Just look at the stats of admitted students. And the undergraduate experience at Dartmouth is unparalleled with the possible exception of Princeton.


Dartmouth is a significant notch above GT in liberal arts. GT is a significant notch above Dartmouth in Engineering.


Dartmouth is many notches above GT, period.



Georgia Tech is no. 1, 2, 3 or 4 in the entire nation for aerospace engineering depending upon ranking service. Dartmouth is - not even in the running!


Aerospace engineering is a low profit margin business

Dartmouth grads become treasury secretaries

Do you know any gen x or boomers who were in aero?

Before space x and blue origin, the 80s and 90s and even 2000s were brutal for aero.

You are at the whim of shareholders who pressure ceos to cut costs.

I like GT as a school btw but you are making GT look bad by trying to shoehorn it into a weight class it doesn’t belong in


The peer group is extremely important for undergraduate education. Dartmouth's Ivy League peer group will be way superior to GT's peer group. It's a fact, not an assertion.

Besides, who cares about a bachelor's in aerospace engineering. It will be the PhD that counts not a generic bachelor's degree where you take a lot of non-specialized classes and call it aerospace engineering (ie work at airports servicing airplanes)


Your understanding of the word 'fact' is flawed. Dartmouth's median SAT score is in the 99th percentile. Georgia Tech's is in the 97th percentile. It's seriously distorted to think that's 'way superior'.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:There are some outraged posters here who are weirdly invested in cheerleading the Amtrak corridor schools. ie, "the NE schools."

To wit: let's accept, for the point of discussion, that every 18 yo high stats female will definitely eschew the T20 schools in NoAbortion states going forward (so, WashU, Vandy, Rice, maybe Duke? Notre Dame ... and watch out for Penn and Emory, in purple states).

Fine. Why does it follow that schools "in the NE" will be the ones who surge ahead? Nobody has mentioned USC, or Berkeley, etc.

Your bias is showing


Berkeley was mentioned few times as likely to rise.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:Based on earlier comments, it sounds like people want to base academic rankings on job placement and salary statistics. Those two don’t necessarily correlate. If you’re comparing an Ivy classics major to a State U CS major, the comparison makes no sense from an academic perspective, but the CS major will have a higher salary. What’s the point of the ROI focus? To make the arts look bad? Don’t people already know which majors pay? ROI is a dumb way to rate academic excellence.


College degree is useless waste of money if you serve at a restaurant or make coffee at Starbucks afterwards.
It's not everything but most important factor



It works the other way too. Anyone who pays too dollar for a degree in a field which pays high salaries regardless of where your degree is from is throwing away their money. When you can do just as well in engineering or CS with a degree from Stat U, why pay 2-3 times as much as much?


That is like saying why go to a Michelin star restaurant when you can go to McDonald's and get a meal at lower price.


Getting a CS degree from GMU is not same as a CS degree from CMU.



True. But getting a CS degree from Georgia Tech ($50K OOS) is comparable to a CS degree from CMU ($80K OOS).


If you need aid, CMU will award it. Not going to get anything from a highly-ranked public as an OOS.

What is considered highly ranked is Georgia Tech highly ranked?

Georgia Tech is ranked #5 in Computer Science. Is being #5 highly ranked in your dictionary?


Yes, but that’s one program. How is it’s classics program? That’s why it’s not a highly ranked overall.


Georgia Tech doesn't even have a Classics Department and offers no classes in Greek or Latin. That doesn't make it a weaker choice, unless that matters to you. Just like Dartmouth not having a major in business doesn't make it a weaker choice for those who don't care about that.


What if your kid goes in for CS and then changes their mind? Lots of kids do that. I went in for Economics and ended up switching to Chemistry. Never imagined I would do that in HS.


So Dartmouth is no good because it doesn't offer the business degree that Georgia Tech does?


Overall, Dartmouth provides a much better education and admits higher quality students than GTech. That doesn’t mean GTech isn’t good for a CS degree and getting a high-paying CS job after college. But for those in the market for prestigious educational credentials, Dartmouth beats GTech.


Honestly, this is the first time I am hearing this i.e "provides a much better education and admits higher quality students than GTech" about Dartmouth. I haven't heard anyone applying to Dartmouth for any major in NoVA region.


Dartmouth is a significant notch above GT. Just look at the stats of admitted students. And the undergraduate experience at Dartmouth is unparalleled with the possible exception of Princeton.


Dartmouth is a significant notch above GT in liberal arts. GT is a significant notch above Dartmouth in Engineering.


Dartmouth is many notches above GT, period.


A "basic engineering sciences" degree versus specialized focus in the degree you actually desire is "notches above"? That is the issue---way too many people are tied up with "it's an Ivy so it's the best".

Research opportunities for undergrads at a school without much focus cannot be better, the education cannot be better. Just like my kid wants an engineering that is not at all schools (IE, it's not MechE, EE, CS, CE, Civil E, BioEng/Biomedical) so they didn't apply to schools that don't have what they want (Chem Eng)---sure they could do BME as undergrad but it's not exactly what they want and it's much much better to get a Chem Eng and then do a BME minor or focus on that area, rather than getting a BME where you really need a Masters to go anywhere. Why would anyone go somewhere that doesn't actually have their major (and general eng is exactly that---unless you want Harvey Mudd--at that level their "general eng" is good, but they know that most go onto grad work )
Anonymous
I am confident we'll see a slow and steady decline in private schools located in red states. I will personally ensure those states do not see the tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of tuition dollars from my family ever again. I know many likeminded parents in my circle as well.
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Anonymous wrote:Based on earlier comments, it sounds like people want to base academic rankings on job placement and salary statistics. Those two don’t necessarily correlate. If you’re comparing an Ivy classics major to a State U CS major, the comparison makes no sense from an academic perspective, but the CS major will have a higher salary. What’s the point of the ROI focus? To make the arts look bad? Don’t people already know which majors pay? ROI is a dumb way to rate academic excellence.


College degree is useless waste of money if you serve at a restaurant or make coffee at Starbucks afterwards.
It's not everything but most important factor



It works the other way too. Anyone who pays too dollar for a degree in a field which pays high salaries regardless of where your degree is from is throwing away their money. When you can do just as well in engineering or CS with a degree from Stat U, why pay 2-3 times as much as much?


That is like saying why go to a Michelin star restaurant when you can go to McDonald's and get a meal at lower price.


Getting a CS degree from GMU is not same as a CS degree from CMU.



True. But getting a CS degree from Georgia Tech ($50K OOS) is comparable to a CS degree from CMU ($80K OOS).


If you need aid, CMU will award it. Not going to get anything from a highly-ranked public as an OOS.

What is considered highly ranked is Georgia Tech highly ranked?

Georgia Tech is ranked #5 in Computer Science. Is being #5 highly ranked in your dictionary?


Yes, but that’s one program. How is it’s classics program? That’s why it’s not a highly ranked overall.


Georgia Tech doesn't even have a Classics Department and offers no classes in Greek or Latin. That doesn't make it a weaker choice, unless that matters to you. Just like Dartmouth not having a major in business doesn't make it a weaker choice for those who don't care about that.


What if your kid goes in for CS and then changes their mind? Lots of kids do that. I went in for Economics and ended up switching to Chemistry. Never imagined I would do that in HS.


So Dartmouth is no good because it doesn't offer the business degree that Georgia Tech does?


Overall, Dartmouth provides a much better education and admits higher quality students than GTech. That doesn’t mean GTech isn’t good for a CS degree and getting a high-paying CS job after college. But for those in the market for prestigious educational credentials, Dartmouth beats GTech.


Honestly, this is the first time I am hearing this i.e "provides a much better education and admits higher quality students than GTech" about Dartmouth. I haven't heard anyone applying to Dartmouth for any major in NoVA region.


Dartmouth is a significant notch above GT. Just look at the stats of admitted students. And the undergraduate experience at Dartmouth is unparalleled with the possible exception of Princeton.


Dartmouth is a significant notch above GT in liberal arts. GT is a significant notch above Dartmouth in Engineering.


Dartmouth is many notches above GT, period.



Georgia Tech is no. 1, 2, 3 or 4 in the entire nation for aerospace engineering depending upon ranking service. Dartmouth is - not even in the running!


Aerospace engineering is a low profit margin business

Dartmouth grads become treasury secretaries

Do you know any gen x or boomers who were in aero?

Before space x and blue origin, the 80s and 90s and even 2000s were brutal for aero.

You are at the whim of shareholders who pressure ceos to cut costs.

I like GT as a school btw but you are making GT look bad by trying to shoehorn it into a weight class it doesn’t belong in


The peer group is extremely important for undergraduate education. Dartmouth's Ivy League peer group will be way superior to GT's peer group. It's a fact, not an assertion.

Besides, who cares about a bachelor's in aerospace engineering. It will be the PhD that counts not a generic bachelor's degree where you take a lot of non-specialized classes and call it aerospace engineering (ie work at airports servicing airplanes)


Your understanding of the word 'fact' is flawed. Dartmouth's median SAT score is in the 99th percentile. Georgia Tech's is in the 97th percentile. It's seriously distorted to think that's 'way superior'.


So many people are distorted by the Rankings system. And they are a bit uninformed as there are "real jobs" in aerospace engineering for just a bachelor degree. Tons of them. But yes, go get a general engineering sciences instead of aerospace or even MechE and attempt to use your Dartmouth connections and pride yourself on "smart cohorts from university". When you finally land a job (not likely to be a real aerospace job without any focus as an undergrad), you will find yourself working with many smart engineers from many schools who are just as driven and intelligent as you, except they will have a degree that is focused and targeted in the area of interests, as well as a great general engineering background, as that's at the core of most T100 engineering schools (or ABET accredited schools).
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I am confident we'll see a slow and steady decline in private schools located in red states. I will personally ensure those states do not see the tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of tuition dollars from my family ever again. I know many likeminded parents in my circle as well.

You're being dramatic. Duke has been prestigious for forever and frankly Duke, Emory, Vandy, WashU have so much money that they can mitigate the laws of their states. For instance Emory will still perform abortions as the county they are in will not prosecute such things.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am confident we'll see a slow and steady decline in private schools located in red states. I will personally ensure those states do not see the tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of tuition dollars from my family ever again. I know many likeminded parents in my circle as well.

You're being dramatic. Duke has been prestigious for forever and frankly Duke, Emory, Vandy, WashU have so much money that they can mitigate the laws of their states. For instance Emory will still perform abortions as the county they are in will not prosecute such things.



Definitely overblown and overdramatic. The laws of the state in which my future law school would be was NEVEr a consideration and the same will be true of undergrad. Even if you picked Texas, there are still at least two contiguous states that so far aren't trigger. If my DD needed an abortion she knows to come to me and frankly, i'm taking her to my OB where I know she will be safe. For those who won't tell their parents or can't afford to drive, Planned Parenthood will drive. This is not the big issue that DCUMers want to make it out to be
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am confident we'll see a slow and steady decline in private schools located in red states. I will personally ensure those states do not see the tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of tuition dollars from my family ever again. I know many likeminded parents in my circle as well.

You're being dramatic. Duke has been prestigious for forever and frankly Duke, Emory, Vandy, WashU have so much money that they can mitigate the laws of their states. For instance Emory will still perform abortions as the county they are in will not prosecute such things.



Definitely overblown and overdramatic. The laws of the state in which my future law school would be was NEVEr a consideration and the same will be true of undergrad. Even if you picked Texas, there are still at least two contiguous states that so far aren't trigger. If my DD needed an abortion she knows to come to me and frankly, i'm taking her to my OB where I know she will be safe. For those who won't tell their parents or can't afford to drive, Planned Parenthood will drive. This is not the big issue that DCUMers want to make it out to be


You're being completely and willfully oblivious if you don't think families and students themselves won't be taking these trends into account. I know more students than parents who have completely ruled out schools in conservative states, and I can only imagine that this latest ruling has only cemented those opinions further.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am confident we'll see a slow and steady decline in private schools located in red states. I will personally ensure those states do not see the tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of tuition dollars from my family ever again. I know many likeminded parents in my circle as well.

You're being dramatic. Duke has been prestigious for forever and frankly Duke, Emory, Vandy, WashU have so much money that they can mitigate the laws of their states. For instance Emory will still perform abortions as the county they are in will not prosecute such things.



Definitely overblown and overdramatic. The laws of the state in which my future law school would be was NEVEr a consideration and the same will be true of undergrad. Even if you picked Texas, there are still at least two contiguous states that so far aren't trigger. If my DD needed an abortion she knows to come to me and frankly, i'm taking her to my OB where I know she will be safe. For those who won't tell their parents or can't afford to drive, Planned Parenthood will drive. This is not the big issue that DCUMers want to make it out to be


It may not be "the big issue" for DCUMers who can afford to travel. Many of us (myself included) are concerned for the women in those states that cannot afford to travel to get the healthcare they need and deserve; for the women who need an emergency procedure to save their lives that is now not allowed where they live. And yes, if it's an emergency for our own kids, most of us DCUMers cannot afford to transport our kids to another state once the emergency has occurred.
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