T20 Universities list predictions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confident we'll see a slow and steady decline in private schools located in red states. I will personally ensure those states do not see the tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of tuition dollars from my family ever again. I know many likeminded parents in my circle as well.

You're being dramatic. Duke has been prestigious for forever and frankly Duke, Emory, Vandy, WashU have so much money that they can mitigate the laws of their states. For instance Emory will still perform abortions as the county they are in will not prosecute such things.

Definitely overblown and overdramatic. The laws of the state in which my future law school would be was NEVEr a consideration and the same will be true of undergrad. Even if you picked Texas, there are still at least two contiguous states that so far aren't trigger. If my DD needed an abortion she knows to come to me and frankly, i'm taking her to my OB where I know she will be safe. For those who won't tell their parents or can't afford to drive, Planned Parenthood will drive. This is not the big issue that DCUMers want to make it out to be

+1 one more thing to be angry and scream about. Take it to politics and whine in your echo chamber...all of these schools will be just fine without your kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Emory, Washington U, Vandy, Rice and ND will fall.

Unlikely. With the exception of Emory, these schools are all solidly in top 20 for many years. There is an average ranking calculation for schools (2015-2022) and it has the following rankings for these schools.

Emory 20.87
Wash U 16.75
Rice 16.5
ND 17.25

https://publicuniversityhonors.com/2016/09/18/average-u-s-news-rankings-for-126-universities-2010-1017/

With ND's rising endowment, I don't see it falling off T20 in immediate future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am confident we'll see a slow and steady decline in private schools located in red states. I will personally ensure those states do not see the tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of tuition dollars from my family ever again. I know many likeminded parents in my circle as well.

No-one cares, go away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confident we'll see a slow and steady decline in private schools located in red states. I will personally ensure those states do not see the tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of tuition dollars from my family ever again. I know many likeminded parents in my circle as well.

You're being dramatic. Duke has been prestigious for forever and frankly Duke, Emory, Vandy, WashU have so much money that they can mitigate the laws of their states. For instance Emory will still perform abortions as the county they are in will not prosecute such things.

Definitely overblown and overdramatic. The laws of the state in which my future law school would be was NEVEr a consideration and the same will be true of undergrad. Even if you picked Texas, there are still at least two contiguous states that so far aren't trigger. If my DD needed an abortion she knows to come to me and frankly, i'm taking her to my OB where I know she will be safe. For those who won't tell their parents or can't afford to drive, Planned Parenthood will drive. This is not the big issue that DCUMers want to make it out to be

You're being completely and willfully oblivious if you don't think families and students themselves won't be taking these trends into account. I know more students than parents who have completely ruled out schools in conservative states, and I can only imagine that this latest ruling has only cemented those opinions further.

We considered this this past year when picking colleges. DC put one school on the list that was in a "red state" but in a blue area. We didn't really like it but the quality of the school overrode the politics of the area. DC ultimately had that school in their top 2. But we definately decided that Texas schools were out (despite Rice being a good choice for them) simply because of the Texas politics already. My kid was definately avoiding schools in red states, and this decision further cements that concept.

Don't like that my other DS is living in a state that is "purple" but now has laws in place after this ruling that are not acceptable. I worry that DS female friends and any future GFs might have to travel 2+ hours for care, but know that we can (and would ) support DS friends in anyway needed and DS knows that.

[Anonymous]

Damn. Is DCUM filled with conservatives?

[Anonymous]

A lot of folks here just don't get it.

[Anonymous]

Why are we conflating Roe vs Wade with college rankings? This thread should be shut down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confident we'll see a slow and steady decline in private schools located in red states. I will personally ensure those states do not see the tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of tuition dollars from my family ever again. I know many likeminded parents in my circle as well.

You're being dramatic. Duke has been prestigious for forever and frankly Duke, Emory, Vandy, WashU have so much money that they can mitigate the laws of their states. For instance Emory will still perform abortions as the county they are in will not prosecute such things.

Definitely overblown and overdramatic. The laws of the state in which my future law school would be was NEVEr a consideration and the same will be true of undergrad. Even if you picked Texas, there are still at least two contiguous states that so far aren't trigger. If my DD needed an abortion she knows to come to me and frankly, i'm taking her to my OB where I know she will be safe. For those who won't tell their parents or can't afford to drive, Planned Parenthood will drive. This is not the big issue that DCUMers want to make it out to be

It may not be "the big issue" for DCUMers who can afford to travel. Many of us (myself included) are concerned for the women in those states that cannot afford to travel to get the healthcare they need and deserve; for the women who need an emergency procedure to save their lives that is now not allowed where they live. And yes, if it's an emergency for our own kids, most of us DCUMers cannot afford to transport our kids to another state once the emergency has occurred.

OK, fine, but this doesn't belong IN THIS THREAD.

[Anonymous]

Ranking threads ALWAYS go sideways. This one is no different. Please delete and move on.

[Anonymous]

Seems appropriate given the coverage in the Chronicle of Higher Education-
https://www.chronicle.com/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Damn. Is DCUM filled with conservatives?

No, and I'm not conservative. But these schools were already in red states so the students who were already turned off wouldn't apply to these places.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Based on earlier comments, it sounds like people want to base academic rankings on job placement and salary statistics. Those two don’t necessarily correlate. If you’re comparing an Ivy classics major to a State U CS major, the comparison makes no sense from an academic perspective, but the CS major will have a higher salary. What’s the point of the ROI focus? To make the arts look bad? Don’t people already know which majors pay? ROI is a dumb way to rate academic excellence.

College degree is useless waste of money if you serve at a restaurant or make coffee at Starbucks afterwards.
It's not everything but most important factor

It works the other way too. Anyone who pays too dollar for a degree in a field which pays high salaries regardless of where your degree is from is throwing away their money. When you can do just as well in engineering or CS with a degree from Stat U, why pay 2-3 times as much as much?

That is like saying why go to a Michelin star restaurant when you can go to McDonald's and get a meal at lower price.

Getting a CS degree from GMU is not same as a CS degree from CMU.

True. But getting a CS degree from Georgia Tech ($50K OOS) is comparable to a CS degree from CMU ($80K OOS).

If you need aid, CMU will award it. Not going to get anything from a highly-ranked public as an OOS.

What is considered highly ranked is Georgia Tech highly ranked?

Georgia Tech is ranked #5 in Computer Science. Is being #5 highly ranked in your dictionary?

Yes, but that’s one program. How is it’s classics program? That’s why it’s not a highly ranked overall.

Georgia Tech doesn't even have a Classics Department and offers no classes in Greek or Latin. That doesn't make it a weaker choice, unless that matters to you. Just like Dartmouth not having a major in business doesn't make it a weaker choice for those who don't care about that.

What if your kid goes in for CS and then changes their mind? Lots of kids do that. I went in for Economics and ended up switching to Chemistry. Never imagined I would do that in HS.

So Dartmouth is no good because it doesn't offer the business degree that Georgia Tech does?

Overall, Dartmouth provides a much better education and admits higher quality students than GTech. That doesn’t mean GTech isn’t good for a CS degree and getting a high-paying CS job after college. But for those in the market for prestigious educational credentials, Dartmouth beats GTech.

Honestly, this is the first time I am hearing this i.e "provides a much better education and admits higher quality students than GTech" about Dartmouth. I haven't heard anyone applying to Dartmouth for any major in NoVA region.

Dartmouth is a significant notch above GT. Just look at the stats of admitted students. And the undergraduate experience at Dartmouth is unparalleled with the possible exception of Princeton.

Dartmouth is a significant notch above GT in liberal arts. GT is a significant notch above Dartmouth in Engineering.

Dartmouth is many notches above GT, period.

Georgia Tech is no. 1, 2, 3 or 4 in the entire nation for aerospace engineering depending upon ranking service. Dartmouth is - not even in the running!

Aerospace engineering is a low profit margin business

Dartmouth grads become treasury secretaries

Do you know any gen x or boomers who were in aero?

Before space x and blue origin, the 80s and 90s and even 2000s were brutal for aero.

You are at the whim of shareholders who pressure ceos to cut costs.

I like GT as a school btw but you are making GT look bad by trying to shoehorn it into a weight class it doesn’t belong in

The peer group is extremely important for undergraduate education. Dartmouth's Ivy League peer group will be way superior to GT's peer group. It's a fact, not an assertion.

Besides, who cares about a bachelor's in aerospace engineering. It will be the PhD that counts not a generic bachelor's degree where you take a lot of non-specialized classes and call it aerospace engineering (ie work at airports servicing airplanes)

Your understanding of the word 'fact' is flawed. Dartmouth's median SAT score is in the 99th percentile. Georgia Tech's is in the 97th percentile. It's seriously distorted to think that's 'way superior'.

So many people are distorted by the Rankings system. And they are a bit uninformed as there are "real jobs" in aerospace engineering for just a bachelor degree. Tons of them. But yes, go get a general engineering sciences instead of aerospace or even MechE and attempt to use your Dartmouth connections and pride yourself on "smart cohorts from university". When you finally land a job (not likely to be a real aerospace job without any focus as an undergrad), you will find yourself working with many smart engineers from many schools who are just as driven and intelligent as you, except they will have a degree that is focused and targeted in the area of interests, as well as a great general engineering background, as that's at the core of most T100 engineering schools (or ABET accredited schools).

This website lists where engineers in one department at NASA did their undergraduate studies. Almost all are state schools!

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/engineering/

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Based on earlier comments, it sounds like people want to base academic rankings on job placement and salary statistics. Those two don’t necessarily correlate. If you’re comparing an Ivy classics major to a State U CS major, the comparison makes no sense from an academic perspective, but the CS major will have a higher salary. What’s the point of the ROI focus? To make the arts look bad? Don’t people already know which majors pay? ROI is a dumb way to rate academic excellence.

College degree is useless waste of money if you serve at a restaurant or make coffee at Starbucks afterwards.
It's not everything but most important factor

It works the other way too. Anyone who pays too dollar for a degree in a field which pays high salaries regardless of where your degree is from is throwing away their money. When you can do just as well in engineering or CS with a degree from Stat U, why pay 2-3 times as much as much?

That is like saying why go to a Michelin star restaurant when you can go to McDonald's and get a meal at lower price.

Getting a CS degree from GMU is not same as a CS degree from CMU.

True. But getting a CS degree from Georgia Tech ($50K OOS) is comparable to a CS degree from CMU ($80K OOS).

If you need aid, CMU will award it. Not going to get anything from a highly-ranked public as an OOS.

What is considered highly ranked is Georgia Tech highly ranked?

Georgia Tech is ranked #5 in Computer Science. Is being #5 highly ranked in your dictionary?

Yes, but that’s one program. How is it’s classics program? That’s why it’s not a highly ranked overall.

Georgia Tech doesn't even have a Classics Department and offers no classes in Greek or Latin. That doesn't make it a weaker choice, unless that matters to you. Just like Dartmouth not having a major in business doesn't make it a weaker choice for those who don't care about that.

What if your kid goes in for CS and then changes their mind? Lots of kids do that. I went in for Economics and ended up switching to Chemistry. Never imagined I would do that in HS.

So Dartmouth is no good because it doesn't offer the business degree that Georgia Tech does?

Overall, Dartmouth provides a much better education and admits higher quality students than GTech. That doesn’t mean GTech isn’t good for a CS degree and getting a high-paying CS job after college. But for those in the market for prestigious educational credentials, Dartmouth beats GTech.

Honestly, this is the first time I am hearing this i.e "provides a much better education and admits higher quality students than GTech" about Dartmouth. I haven't heard anyone applying to Dartmouth for any major in NoVA region.

Dartmouth is a significant notch above GT. Just look at the stats of admitted students. And the undergraduate experience at Dartmouth is unparalleled with the possible exception of Princeton.

Dartmouth is a significant notch above GT in liberal arts. GT is a significant notch above Dartmouth in Engineering.

Dartmouth is many notches above GT, period.

Georgia Tech is no. 1, 2, 3 or 4 in the entire nation for aerospace engineering depending upon ranking service. Dartmouth is - not even in the running!

Aerospace engineering is a low profit margin business

Dartmouth grads become treasury secretaries

Do you know any gen x or boomers who were in aero?

Before space x and blue origin, the 80s and 90s and even 2000s were brutal for aero.

You are at the whim of shareholders who pressure ceos to cut costs.

I like GT as a school btw but you are making GT look bad by trying to shoehorn it into a weight class it doesn’t belong in

The peer group is extremely important for undergraduate education. Dartmouth's Ivy League peer group will be way superior to GT's peer group. It's a fact, not an assertion.

Besides, who cares about a bachelor's in aerospace engineering. It will be the PhD that counts not a generic bachelor's degree where you take a lot of non-specialized classes and call it aerospace engineering (ie work at airports servicing airplanes)

Your understanding of the word 'fact' is flawed. Dartmouth's median SAT score is in the 99th percentile. Georgia Tech's is in the 97th percentile. It's seriously distorted to think that's 'way superior'.

So many people are distorted by the Rankings system. And they are a bit uninformed as there are "real jobs" in aerospace engineering for just a bachelor degree. Tons of them. But yes, go get a general engineering sciences instead of aerospace or even MechE and attempt to use your Dartmouth connections and pride yourself on "smart cohorts from university". When you finally land a job (not likely to be a real aerospace job without any focus as an undergrad), you will find yourself working with many smart engineers from many schools who are just as driven and intelligent as you, except they will have a degree that is focused and targeted in the area of interests, as well as a great general engineering background, as that's at the core of most T100 engineering schools (or ABET accredited schools).

This website lists where engineers in one department at NASA did their undergraduate studies. Almost all are state schools!

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/engineering/

The Dartmouth grads don't have to land a job in aerospace engineering since they will be the ones doing the hiring. They will be the CEOs and COOs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Based on earlier comments, it sounds like people want to base academic rankings on job placement and salary statistics. Those two don’t necessarily correlate. If you’re comparing an Ivy classics major to a State U CS major, the comparison makes no sense from an academic perspective, but the CS major will have a higher salary. What’s the point of the ROI focus? To make the arts look bad? Don’t people already know which majors pay? ROI is a dumb way to rate academic excellence.

College degree is useless waste of money if you serve at a restaurant or make coffee at Starbucks afterwards.
It's not everything but most important factor

It works the other way too. Anyone who pays too dollar for a degree in a field which pays high salaries regardless of where your degree is from is throwing away their money. When you can do just as well in engineering or CS with a degree from Stat U, why pay 2-3 times as much as much?

That is like saying why go to a Michelin star restaurant when you can go to McDonald's and get a meal at lower price.

Getting a CS degree from GMU is not same as a CS degree from CMU.

True. But getting a CS degree from Georgia Tech ($50K OOS) is comparable to a CS degree from CMU ($80K OOS).

If you need aid, CMU will award it. Not going to get anything from a highly-ranked public as an OOS.

What is considered highly ranked is Georgia Tech highly ranked?

Georgia Tech is ranked #5 in Computer Science. Is being #5 highly ranked in your dictionary?

Yes, but that’s one program. How is it’s classics program? That’s why it’s not a highly ranked overall.

Georgia Tech doesn't even have a Classics Department and offers no classes in Greek or Latin. That doesn't make it a weaker choice, unless that matters to you. Just like Dartmouth not having a major in business doesn't make it a weaker choice for those who don't care about that.

What if your kid goes in for CS and then changes their mind? Lots of kids do that. I went in for Economics and ended up switching to Chemistry. Never imagined I would do that in HS.

So Dartmouth is no good because it doesn't offer the business degree that Georgia Tech does?

Overall, Dartmouth provides a much better education and admits higher quality students than GTech. That doesn’t mean GTech isn’t good for a CS degree and getting a high-paying CS job after college. But for those in the market for prestigious educational credentials, Dartmouth beats GTech.

Honestly, this is the first time I am hearing this i.e "provides a much better education and admits higher quality students than GTech" about Dartmouth. I haven't heard anyone applying to Dartmouth for any major in NoVA region.

Dartmouth is a significant notch above GT. Just look at the stats of admitted students. And the undergraduate experience at Dartmouth is unparalleled with the possible exception of Princeton.

Dartmouth is a significant notch above GT in liberal arts. GT is a significant notch above Dartmouth in Engineering.

Dartmouth is many notches above GT, period.

Georgia Tech is no. 1, 2, 3 or 4 in the entire nation for aerospace engineering depending upon ranking service. Dartmouth is - not even in the running!

Aerospace engineering is a low profit margin business

Dartmouth grads become treasury secretaries

Do you know any gen x or boomers who were in aero?

Before space x and blue origin, the 80s and 90s and even 2000s were brutal for aero.

You are at the whim of shareholders who pressure ceos to cut costs.

I like GT as a school btw but you are making GT look bad by trying to shoehorn it into a weight class it doesn’t belong in

The peer group is extremely important for undergraduate education. Dartmouth's Ivy League peer group will be way superior to GT's peer group. It's a fact, not an assertion.

Besides, who cares about a bachelor's in aerospace engineering. It will be the PhD that counts not a generic bachelor's degree where you take a lot of non-specialized classes and call it aerospace engineering (ie work at airports servicing airplanes)

Your understanding of the word 'fact' is flawed. Dartmouth's median SAT score is in the 99th percentile. Georgia Tech's is in the 97th percentile. It's seriously distorted to think that's 'way superior'.

So many people are distorted by the Rankings system. And they are a bit uninformed as there are "real jobs" in aerospace engineering for just a bachelor degree. Tons of them. But yes, go get a general engineering sciences instead of aerospace or even MechE and attempt to use your Dartmouth connections and pride yourself on "smart cohorts from university". When you finally land a job (not likely to be a real aerospace job without any focus as an undergrad), you will find yourself working with many smart engineers from many schools who are just as driven and intelligent as you, except they will have a degree that is focused and targeted in the area of interests, as well as a great general engineering background, as that's at the core of most T100 engineering schools (or ABET accredited schools).

This website lists where engineers in one department at NASA did their undergraduate studies. Almost all are state schools!

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/engineering/

The Dartmouth grads don't have to land a job in aerospace engineering since they will be the ones doing the hiring. They will be the CEOs and COOs.

Annnnnd here are the CEOs.....

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/business/

[Anonymous]

The whole Dartmouth/Gtech argument is a bit overdone. Dartmouth seems to have been used as a random example of a traditionally highly-ranked school. I doubt the original poster meant for anyone to obsess over the specifics of the two schools. Dartmouth aside, Gtech is a great school for CS and some engineering programs, but most people would not use such programs to rank all of U.S. higher education. The world is not all about STEM. In fact, some of society’s biggest problems are tech with insufficient moral/ethical guardrails. Tech bros need more than tech to be well educated.