Magnet high schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please- if MC offered vouchers to these cram classes very few would take advantage of the opportunities.

That sounds like a terrible solution. A simpler option might be to simply apply things like local norms.

Uh, how about offering a real rigorous curriculum and honest differentiation in all schools? Then you won't need to fudge things with "local norms."

Exactly. Implement rigor at the home schools. Top kids get into the *meaningfully* enriched classes at every school. Eliminate the magnets. Everyone wins.

THIS!

I have a kid at a regional CES and I would much rather have just kept her at our home school.

Why can’t MCPS offer enrichment and rigor at ALL schools. That would help all the kids. Versus this nonsense of trying to racially balance magnets.

Despite the "peer cohort" rationale for MS admissions, we were told our home MS wouldn't group them in peer cohorts even for the enriched courses. Because they didn't want higher-level courses to segregate white and asian students from other students in the school. Meanwhile we're stuck with magnets only because MCPS refuses to offer appropriate differentiation. Provide more support *early* to ES's with high FARMS populations, and offer rigorous course options at every single school for bright kids. Even out the support (what people are complaining about), and everyone wins.

Make these classes available at all schools. Keep them rigorous. Allow anyone to enroll so there's no segregation of any kind but if someone can't maintain a C they are dropped from the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many people here are correlating low test scores with parental income and applauding that MCPS has tried to figure out a way to control for that.

While I personally think that makes sense in general I'm sure many of you are following what is happening in NY where people are making up different things to justify how they want the gifted programs to look in terms of racial make up. In NY most of the students in the gifted programs are FARMS but they are Asian-American. Then they make up other reasons why the demographics are slanted.

You can't have it both ways. It's like administrators everywhere are making up whatever reason suits them to try to reduce the number of Asian-Americans in the magnet systems. This is really wrong.

This isn't exactly right. Most students in gifted programs in New York are elementary-aged, and up until this year were admitted based on a test administered at 4 years old. That process was absolutely dominated by UMC families from a very small handful of neighborhoods.

You are twisting facts. This thread is about high school magnets and for sure the top schools are overwhelmingly Asian American who are FARMS.

I had no idea. NY magnet schools are overwhelmingly Asian American who are FARMS. Really?

Not exactly. PP is using "NY magnet schools" to mean something pretty precise - the eight public high schools that use the SHSAT for admission. If you are curious, you can read about it here: https://gothamist.com/news/number-black-and-latino-students-admitted-nyc-specialized-high-schools-falls-lowest-level-3-years

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please- if MC offered vouchers to these cram classes very few would take advantage of the opportunities.

That sounds like a terrible solution. A simpler option might be to simply apply things like local norms.

Uh, how about offering a real rigorous curriculum and honest differentiation in all schools? Then you won't need to fudge things with "local norms."

Exactly. Implement rigor at the home schools. Top kids get into the *meaningfully* enriched classes at every school. Eliminate the magnets. Everyone wins.

THIS!

I have a kid at a regional CES and I would much rather have just kept her at our home school.

Why can’t MCPS offer enrichment and rigor at ALL schools. That would help all the kids. Versus this nonsense of trying to racially balance magnets.

Despite the "peer cohort" rationale for MS admissions, we were told our home MS wouldn't group them in peer cohorts even for the enriched courses. Because they didn't want higher-level courses to segregate white and asian students from other students in the school. Meanwhile we're stuck with magnets only because MCPS refuses to offer appropriate differentiation. Provide more support *early* to ES's with high FARMS populations, and offer rigorous course options at every single school for bright kids. Even out the support (what people are complaining about), and everyone wins.

Make these classes available at all schools. Keep them rigorous. Allow anyone to enroll so there's no segregation of any kind but if someone can't maintain a C they are dropped from the class.

+1 million

Who can argue against this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many people here are correlating low test scores with parental income and applauding that MCPS has tried to figure out a way to control for that.

While I personally think that makes sense in general I'm sure many of you are following what is happening in NY where people are making up different things to justify how they want the gifted programs to look in terms of racial make up. In NY most of the students in the gifted programs are FARMS but they are Asian-American. Then they make up other reasons why the demographics are slanted.

You can't have it both ways. It's like administrators everywhere are making up whatever reason suits them to try to reduce the number of Asian-Americans in the magnet systems. This is really wrong.

This isn't exactly right. Most students in gifted programs in New York are elementary-aged, and up until this year were admitted based on a test administered at 4 years old. That process was absolutely dominated by UMC families from a very small handful of neighborhoods.

You are twisting facts. This thread is about high school magnets and for sure the top schools are overwhelmingly Asian American who are FARMS.

I had no idea. NY magnet schools are overwhelmingly Asian American who are FARMS. Really?

Not exactly. PP is using "NY magnet schools" to mean something pretty precise - the eight public high schools that use the SHSAT for admission. If you are curious, you can read about it here: https://gothamist.com/news/number-black-and-latino-students-admitted-nyc-specialized-high-schools-falls-lowest-level-3-years

What a biased link.
The relevant information is that of the white students who are admitted to these NY schools only 16% are poor (FARMS) while 61% of Asian students admitted are FARMS which is the highest of any race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, some of us worked hard to make sure we can provide for our kids. What's wrong with that? Isn't that your job as a parent? Your inability to provide is no one's fault except you.

Well, the problem is that a seat at a publicly funded magnet program is not a reward for good parenting, nor for your hard work. It is meant to provide opportunities for kids who would not have those opportunities at their home school (hence the 'magnet' part).

If you are a good parent, a good earner, good for you! But that's not what this is about.

Actually, publicly funded magnet programs were created NOT to provide academic opportunities, but to provide desirable programs that would lure people of other races to a basically segregated school. Why do you think the new downcounty IB program is at Kennedy?

That program was in the works in 2010-2012. It’s only “new” to an outsider.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many people here are correlating low test scores with parental income and applauding that MCPS has tried to figure out a way to control for that.

While I personally think that makes sense in general I'm sure many of you are following what is happening in NY where people are making up different things to justify how they want the gifted programs to look in terms of racial make up. In NY most of the students in the gifted programs are FARMS but they are Asian-American. Then they make up other reasons why the demographics are slanted.

You can't have it both ways. It's like administrators everywhere are making up whatever reason suits them to try to reduce the number of Asian-Americans in the magnet systems. This is really wrong.

This isn't exactly right. Most students in gifted programs in New York are elementary-aged, and up until this year were admitted based on a test administered at 4 years old. That process was absolutely dominated by UMC families from a very small handful of neighborhoods.

You are twisting facts. This thread is about high school magnets and for sure the top schools are overwhelmingly Asian American who are FARMS.

I had no idea. NY magnet schools are overwhelmingly Asian American who are FARMS. Really?

Not exactly. PP is using "NY magnet schools" to mean something pretty precise - the eight public high schools that use the SHSAT for admission. If you are curious, you can read about it here: https://gothamist.com/news/number-black-and-latino-students-admitted-nyc-specialized-high-schools-falls-lowest-level-3-years

What a biased link.
The relevant information is that of the white students who are admitted to these NY schools only 16% are poor (FARMS) while 61% of Asian students admitted are FARMS which is the highest of any race.

That's quite a statistic if true. So what is the argument against low income Asians again now? That the parents and grandparents work with the kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please- if MC offered vouchers to these cram classes very few would take advantage of the opportunities.

That sounds like a terrible solution. A simpler option might be to simply apply things like local norms.

Uh, how about offering a real rigorous curriculum and honest differentiation in all schools? Then you won't need to fudge things with "local norms."

Exactly. Implement rigor at the home schools. Top kids get into the *meaningfully* enriched classes at every school. Eliminate the magnets. Everyone wins.

THIS!

I have a kid at a regional CES and I would much rather have just kept her at our home school.

Why can’t MCPS offer enrichment and rigor at ALL schools. That would help all the kids. Versus this nonsense of trying to racially balance magnets.

Despite the "peer cohort" rationale for MS admissions, we were told our home MS wouldn't group them in peer cohorts even for the enriched courses. Because they didn't want higher-level courses to segregate white and asian students from other students in the school. Meanwhile we're stuck with magnets only because MCPS refuses to offer appropriate differentiation. Provide more support *early* to ES's with high FARMS populations, and offer rigorous course options at every single school for bright kids. Even out the support (what people are complaining about), and everyone wins.

Make these classes available at all schools. Keep them rigorous. Allow anyone to enroll so there's no segregation of any kind but if someone can't maintain a C they are dropped from the class.

+1 million

Who can argue against this?

Will absolutely not fly...and everyone knows why..

[Anonymous]

Admission to these magnets is a pie-eating contest where the prize is more pie.

Prep for years for a single standardized test? Congrats! Now you get four years of excessive homework, no balance, and an anxiety disorder. Yay!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Admission to these magnets is a pie-eating contest where the prize is more pie.

Prep for years for a single standardized test? Congrats! Now you get four years of excessive homework, no balance, and an anxiety disorder. Yay!

Well said!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Admission to these magnets is a pie-eating contest where the prize is more pie.

Prep for years for a single standardized test? Congrats! Now you get four years of excessive homework, no balance, and an anxiety disorder. Yay!

easy answer: don't have your kid apply if that's how you feel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Admission to these magnets is a pie-eating contest where the prize is more pie.

Prep for years for a single standardized test? Congrats! Now you get four years of excessive homework, no balance, and an anxiety disorder. Yay!

easy answer: don't have your kid apply if that's how you feel.

True, and my kid didn’t. But I do think the buyer should beware in this case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please- if MC offered vouchers to these cram classes very few would take advantage of the opportunities.

That sounds like a terrible solution. A simpler option might be to simply apply things like local norms.

Uh, how about offering a real rigorous curriculum and honest differentiation in all schools? Then you won't need to fudge things with "local norms."

Exactly. Implement rigor at the home schools. Top kids get into the *meaningfully* enriched classes at every school. Eliminate the magnets. Everyone wins.

THIS!

I have a kid at a regional CES and I would much rather have just kept her at our home school.

Why can’t MCPS offer enrichment and rigor at ALL schools. That would help all the kids. Versus this nonsense of trying to racially balance magnets.

Despite the "peer cohort" rationale for MS admissions, we were told our home MS wouldn't group them in peer cohorts even for the enriched courses. Because they didn't want higher-level courses to segregate white and asian students from other students in the school. Meanwhile we're stuck with magnets only because MCPS refuses to offer appropriate differentiation. Provide more support *early* to ES's with high FARMS populations, and offer rigorous course options at every single school for bright kids. Even out the support (what people are complaining about), and everyone wins.

Make these classes available at all schools. Keep them rigorous. Allow anyone to enroll so there's no segregation of any kind but if someone can't maintain a C they are dropped from the class.

I have kids in MCPS. One was in a magnet program and one not. From my experience, this will never happen in MCPS because MCPS (as a whole, not individual teachers) does not care about kids.

We see this over and over. MCPS rarely does what is in the best interest of our kids. MCPS is, first and foremost, interested in ‘optics’ and making the stats look good.

MCPS wants to be able to say they have made progress by highlighting the numbers of AA and Latino kids in magnet programs. Who cares if they are struggling in the program. Who cares what happens to them after?

MCPS is a disaster and it has let down kids of all races equally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Admission to these magnets is a pie-eating contest where the prize is more pie.

Prep for years for a single standardized test? Congrats! Now you get four years of excessive homework, no balance, and an anxiety disorder. Yay!

easy answer: don't have your kid apply if that's how you feel.

True, and my kid didn’t. But I do think the buyer should beware in this case.

The return policy is quite generous.

There are kids who do great in magnets, and others who really struggle.

My kid is doing great. Gets plenty of sleep (I make sure DC is offline by 10:30pm); has several activities going on including working PT; has a great social life (DH and I were just commenting on how we've had so many dinners alone on the weekends these past few weeks); pulling straight As.

DC has really blossomed in magnet; I've never seen DC happier. DC was super miserable in MS when we opted to not do magnet for MS due to commute issues.

So not everyone is miserable, has anxiety or no balance in magnets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Admission to these magnets is a pie-eating contest where the prize is more pie.

Prep for years for a single standardized test? Congrats! Now you get four years of excessive homework, no balance, and an anxiety disorder. Yay!

Well said!

So true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I have kids in MCPS. One was in a magnet program and one not. From my experience, this will never happen in MCPS because MCPS (as a whole, not individual teachers) does not care about kids.

We see this over and over. MCPS rarely does what is in the best interest of our kids. MCPS is, first and foremost, interested in ‘optics’ and making the stats look good.

MCPS wants to be able to say they have made progress by highlighting the numbers of AA and Latino kids in magnet programs. Who cares if they are struggling in the program. Who cares what happens to them after?

MCPS is a disaster and it has let down kids of all races equally.

You got this exactly right. MCPS is a disaster.

https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/Graphs/#/ReportCards/ReportCardSchool/1/E/1/15/XXXX/2019

The state report card shows 80% AAs and Hispanics not proficient in math in middle school.

80% not proficient in math in middle school. Let this sink in. (21.9% AA and 18.7% Hispanics proficient.)

ESOL students are the fastest growing group in MCPS. They are only 11.8% proficient in middle school math.

Yet MCPS spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on magnet program reform, boundary analysis, and antiracist study...