What is fair in this divorce?
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Anonymous
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Details:
We are 38 (F) & 40 (M). Married 4.5 years. No kids. We owned two homes, a condo in the city and the other a seasonal home in Vermont. We just sold the Vermont home. We are listing our city condo in the next couple weeks. I (wife) rent an apartment while we’re separated and he stayed in the condo. No other assets (no cars), but large (for us) bank accounts. About $100k in savings and about $100k in checking. The condo is going on the market for $1.2mil. We haven’t owned it long, so the only real equity we have in it is the down payment ($200k). No debt other than the giant mortgage. My husband makes around $400k/ year and I make around $88k/ year. Big difference. I came into this marriage with nothing. Literally. I had $8k in debt and was making pennies (was trying to start a business). Backstory, not sure if it matters: I am the one who is initiating divorce. He doesn’t want it. He is a very bad alcoholic. I’ve posted about him here before. He’s had seizures, has been hospitalized several times, crashed our car, got a DUI, has lied to me more times than I can count. I could go on. I’ve spent 2.5 years (so over half our marriage) trying to “fix” him, help him, support him, etc. He is incredibly angry with me for “giving up on him”, “leaving him” etc. But there has been so much damage done. And he won’t stop drinking. We are going to attempt the mediation route. I just have no idea what is fair. Yes, I know, this is where a lawyer comes in. And it may end up at that point. But he said something earlier on the phone that “you should leave the marriage w/ what you came in with”, so now I think he’s going to expect me to take nothing. I don’t want 50/50, I truly don’t want much. I just want this done. I don’t want any of his retirement/ 401k/ etc. I just would like a certain chunk of savings. But what? 10%? 20%? 30%? He’s worked really hard, and it’s taken him a while to get where he is. As much as I am mad at him for all this, he doesn’t deserve someone trying to take him to the cleaners. Would love to hear suggestions, other stories, etc. thank you. |
Anonymous
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This is really a legal question. You probably have the right to some assets that were accumulated during the marriage but assuming you do not live in a community property state, it’s not 50%. What do you feel is fair? How much money and time did you put into acquiring the homes? Did you save in your 401k or not because he made assurances to you about the future? Did you put in a lot of work to support him so he could work that $400k job? Did you dial back your job to support him?
I can see scenarios where you get nothing, and others where you could argue for some significant amount. |
Anonymous
| I would probably ask for 1/3 and settle for 1/4 |
Anonymous
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OP here. Thank you. My career has definitely been dialed back, moreso by my own failings early on, not because his was so demanding. I do/did, however, do almost everything around the house because of how demanding his job was. But, it’s not much if i’m being honest. No kids, condo isn’t huge, etc.
All of our finances are combined, and we’re both on the mortgage/ deed. So we’re both contributing, but obviously very different amounts. What I think is fair is a 70/30 split of our bank accounts. If we’re doing the math, I make 22% of what he makes, so in my mind, 22% of the savings/checking seems fair. I tacked on another 8% to round it out because of all the damn stress (I know that isn’t a good reason). But then there’s also the large question of the condo. That could be another $200k coming in, but did I contribute to the down payment? Barely. Again, combined finances but it was mostly money that he had saved for a while. |
Anonymous
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It sounds like you've been through hell and I personally think what is "fair" is for you to get almost it all - he will be able to replace it quickly and i imagine you spent tremendous time and energy trying to help him and deserve some security in your life when you walk away
but i'd probably accept 1/3 to be done with it. a contentious battle could easily eat up more than that in legal fees. |
Anonymous
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From what you say, it's likely that a good portion of the assets are separate property that your husband brought to the marriage. I'm certain the "community" owns a portion of those assets but you will need a forensic accountant to determine how much. I suggest getting that number so you have an accurate accounting of what each party is entitled to.
Not sure what your husband's attitude is but if I were the higher earner and my spouse was divorcing me, I would want to know what they were legally entitled to. That said... The alimony you are entitled to is not for life b/c you are not in a long term marriage. So one idea is to figure out what you'd be entitled to and for how long, then make a global settlement offer that is a lump sum payout of alimony as well as a portion of the assets. The idea is that "For purposes of settlement and to avoid a protracted legal process which will involve the court and carry significant legal costs, I will accept this amount so we can both move on. This offer is good for 30 days." So do this: Amount of community assets x 50% (your share) + Amount of likely alimony based on incomes & duration of marriage = What the courts may order. Then add a little bit and start negotiating. Your ace in the hole is that "you either pay me X, or you will pay BOTH our legal fees which will be several times X". Good luck - this is never easy. |
Anonymous
| You should get what you contributed, that’s fair. |
Anonymous
It doesn't work that way because marriage is a contract and marital property is owned jointly, no matter who worked for pay to accumulate it. OP, you need a lawyer and you should walk away with half. |
Anonymous
Completely wrong legally. What was acquired individually PRIOR to the marriage stays with that individual. What was jointly acquired after the marriage is up for 50% consideration. Many greedy marriage partners think that they are unreasonably entitled to half and then they find out they are sadly mistaken.. |
Anonymous
| Please stop negotiating against yourself. Go pay to consult with a lawyer and find out what you are legally entitled to. Walk into medication with actual legal knowledge — not a bunch of advice from the internet. |
Anonymous
Nice Freudian slip! 
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Anonymous
that is not entirely true. Maryland is an equitable distribution state so Maryland judges will not split assets 50/50. OP contributed a small amount to the down payment of the house, so she should not receive 50% of the down payment of the house. She should get about 1/3 of the saving and her % contribution of the down payment. I'd settle for $50K. They have been married <5 years and has no kids. Judges don't give you money for stress, there is no way to quantify it. |
Anonymous
Exactly... Equitable distribution states include Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia, and Wyoming. |
Anonymous
I think your 30% reasoning for the savings accumulated during the marriage sounds reasonable. For the condo, I thing get out what you put into equity plus appreciation. |
Anonymous
no, not unless she’s in a community property state. in an equitable division state, no kids, fairly short marriage, she’s not going to get half. |