FCPS HS Boundary

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not arguing the merits of IB or AP, per se, but why is Lewis detrimentally impacted by IB and Robinson is not?

Being 100% honest here - I think IB is worse overall than AP and that FCPS should dump it at all schools. Every last one. And go AP for everyone. That shores up a lot of transfer loopholes too because even a smaller HS like Lewis should be able to at least offer Calc AB and some of the other more common AP classes. For context, my HS in the Midwest was smaller than Lewis at around 1500 kids, we had transfers in for a vocational academy and most of those kids weren’t in AP, and we still had the more popular AP classes with enough enrollment. Granted it did make scheduling difficult if the one section of AP Chemistry conflicted with the electives. But kids figured it out.

IB is also much more expensive, especially considering how few kids get the full diploma. Fcps should eliminate it from all schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly is the goal here- is it to raise enrollment at Lewis or is it to decrease enrollment at WSHS? Or both?

I live near Hunt Valley- in a part I assume will stay with WSHS- but if we do get rezoned to Lewis, I’ll send my kids to private school. I’d rather them go to South County which is definitely closer than Lewis.

There is poster that had kids in Satatoga who was (and apparently still is) bitterly resentful that Hunt Valley along Gambril was rezoned to West Springfield 20 years ago when South County opened and that area was rezoned to fill the new school.

They have posted here for years, vengefully arguing that this 20 year old redistricting ruined Lewis (then Lee) and that all of Hunt Valley needs to be rezoned back to Lewis to right a decades old slight, even though of all of the WSHS schools, except for that small Sangster neighborhood, HV is the farthest away from Lewis. No matter which way you drive, Hunt Valley students would pass by every single WSHS elementary school (except Sangster) to get to Lewis. Geographically, HV makes the least sense (except Sangster) to rezone to Lewis.

Her goal is a vengeance rezoning, not based on sense, finances, commute or logic. One can only hope that she does not have the ear of the school board.

That would be part of the plan. It would decrease enrollment at WSHS.

And not true. You hop on the Parkway and drive towards "Springfield Mall"; just like they used to do. Half of HV lives next to the parkway.

They did not kill Lewis with any one decision, but a number of things combined by 2010 or so to make it unattractive to many people. The 2005 decision was probably the breaking point because between moving students to South County and West Springfield (a last minute change) they reduced the enrollment by 300 students. They also botched the F/R lunch increase at Lee. They said it would only increase a little from somewhere around 26.8% to 28.9%. In reality it shot to about 40% by 2010 and never recovered. The planning folks had to know this would happen by looking at the F/R lunch rates of the feeder elementary schools and Key. Brad Center, the Lee District School Board member at the time, tried to stop the HV to West Springfield change but the change passed 7-5. After that they were supposed to do a comprehensive boundary study involving LB, WS and Lee, but never did.

With the decrease in enrollment and the higher poverty (and ESL rates) classes started dropping, e.g., Japanese. The liberal pupil placement policy allowed students to leave for other schools. Add in Great Schools and it just spiraled down from there.

The imbalance between Lewis and West Springfield is extreme and they need to fix it. Replacing IB with AP at Lewis is a good move in the right direction.

But there’s no need to drag the rest of the county into an unnecessary boundary review simply because they want background noise before making changes that will upset some WS families. Over the past 15 or so years, they have moved kids from Westfield, Oakton, Madison, Chantilly, Annandale, Fairfax, and McLean to other schools. Why does WS think it gets a special pass?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly is the goal here- is it to raise enrollment at Lewis or is it to decrease enrollment at WSHS? Or both?

I live near Hunt Valley- in a part I assume will stay with WSHS- but if we do get rezoned to Lewis, I’ll send my kids to private school. I’d rather them go to South County which is definitely closer than Lewis.

There is poster that had kids in Satatoga who was (and apparently still is) bitterly resentful that Hunt Valley along Gambril was rezoned to West Springfield 20 years ago when South County opened and that area was rezoned to fill the new school.

They have posted here for years, vengefully arguing that this 20 year old redistricting ruined Lewis (then Lee) and that all of Hunt Valley needs to be rezoned back to Lewis to right a decades old slight, even though of all of the WSHS schools, except for that small Sangster neighborhood, HV is the farthest away from Lewis. No matter which way you drive, Hunt Valley students would pass by every single WSHS elementary school (except Sangster) to get to Lewis. Geographically, HV makes the least sense (except Sangster) to rezone to Lewis.

Her goal is a vengeance rezoning, not based on sense, finances, commute or logic. One can only hope that she does not have the ear of the school board.

That would be part of the plan. It would decrease enrollment at WSHS.

And not true. You hop on the Parkway and drive towards "Springfield Mall"; just like they used to do. Half of HV lives next to the parkway.

They did not kill Lewis with any one decision, but a number of things combined by 2010 or so to make it unattractive to many people. The 2005 decision was probably the breaking point because between moving students to South County and West Springfield (a last minute change) they reduced the enrollment by 300 students. They also botched the F/R lunch increase at Lee. They said it would only increase a little from somewhere around 26.8% to 28.9%. In reality it shot to about 40% by 2010 and never recovered. The planning folks had to know this would happen by looking at the F/R lunch rates of the feeder elementary schools and Key. Brad Center, the Lee District School Board member at the time, tried to stop the HV to West Springfield change but the change passed 7-5. After that they were supposed to do a comprehensive boundary study involving LB, WS and Lee, but never did.

With the decrease in enrollment and the higher poverty (and ESL rates) classes started dropping, e.g., Japanese. The liberal pupil placement policy allowed students to leave for other schools. Add in Great Schools and it just spiraled down from there.

The imbalance between Lewis and West Springfield is extreme and they need to fix it. Replacing IB with AP at Lewis is a good move in the right direction.

But there’s no need to drag the rest of the county into an unnecessary boundary review simply because they want background noise before making changes that will upset some WS families. Over the past 15 or so years, they have moved kids from Westfield, Oakton, Madison, Chantilly, Annandale, Fairfax, and McLean to other schools. Why does WS think it gets a special pass?

Okay, replace IB with AP and let’s see how that goes. It would reduce some kids from pupil placing out. Let’s do that and see how it goes for a few years. Then if it doesn’t help, try doing some boundary tweaking. But if you don’t fix Lewis first, changing the boundaries won’t change anything. WSHS kids who get redistricted there will just pupil place out like some of the current Lewis population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some interesting comments from the student representative to the School Board last night:

"Last week, I attended a meeting of the Student Equity Ambassador Leaders, also known as SEALs, at Herndon High School. The meeting brought together 3-4 SEALs from each high school, providing a platform to share and compare our experiences from our respective schools. Since it's the season for AP and IB exams, ...She expressed a preference for an AP school to enhance her chances of earning college credits. This conversation highlighted yet another way in which a mere zip code—a simple five-digit number—can significantly impact educational opportunities and experiences."

Why are the student reps always more sensible than the School Board members themselves? Notice that she's not asking for county-wide redistricting, but pointing out how some schools that serve some zip codes are saddled with IB, to the detriment of students at those schools. And we can all see how IB dragged down Lewis over the years.

First IB was Mount Vernon and FCPS is large enough with longitudinal data that should have become information. IB went in as a program/outsourcing to turn around a school. https://www.amazon.com/Supertest-International-Baccalaureate-Strengthen-Schools/dp/081269600X
https://www.c-span.org/video/?198460-2/supertest

FCPS should provide clear historical transfer data on iB/AP only per school. That should include diploma candidates and recipients.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not arguing the merits of IB or AP, per se, but why is Lewis detrimentally impacted by IB and Robinson is not?

Being 100% honest here - I think IB is worse overall than AP and that FCPS should dump it at all schools. Every last one. And go AP for everyone. That shores up a lot of transfer loopholes too because even a smaller HS like Lewis should be able to at least offer Calc AB and some of the other more common AP classes. For context, my HS in the Midwest was smaller than Lewis at around 1500 kids, we had transfers in for a vocational academy and most of those kids weren’t in AP, and we still had the more popular AP classes with enough enrollment. Granted it did make scheduling difficult if the one section of AP Chemistry conflicted with the electives. But kids figured it out.

They could determine a core number of APs and offer them at every HS even if fewer than 19 students sign up.

English
Calc AB
US History
Psychology
Human Geography (important as it is often taken by younger HSers)
Spanish
French
Chemistry
Statistics (often cited as one of the most useful for college and many kids who aren’t planning on a hard math major will take this instead of BC Calc if they already took AB Calc)
Another STEM one, I’d guess whichever is most popular out of Biology/Physics/CS Principals

That gets a kid to potentially 9 AP’s throughout the course of their HS career. Assuming no one takes both Spanish and French. Any school with more than 300 students per grade should be able to staff this and if you only have 10 kids in AP French that’s probably better for learning anyway. Schools with larger enrollment and more demand for AP classes could have more.

You would have to tighten up the “oh I’m transferring for AP German” stuff and maybe limit it to native speakers or kids with a native speaker parent. And if a kid wanted BC Calc or AP European History they could take that one off class at a different school, or take it through an online campus, or do the equivalent at NVCC as dual enrollment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not arguing the merits of IB or AP, per se, but why is Lewis detrimentally impacted by IB and Robinson is not?

Being 100% honest here - I think IB is worse overall than AP and that FCPS should dump it at all schools. Every last one. And go AP for everyone. That shores up a lot of transfer loopholes too because even a smaller HS like Lewis should be able to at least offer Calc AB and some of the other more common AP classes. For context, my HS in the Midwest was smaller than Lewis at around 1500 kids, we had transfers in for a vocational academy and most of those kids weren’t in AP, and we still had the more popular AP classes with enough enrollment. Granted it did make scheduling difficult if the one section of AP Chemistry conflicted with the electives. But kids figured it out.

Kids who take algebra in 7th need more than Calc AB

That will soon go away, didn't you know?? Equity for all = Algebra in 8th.

At some point though, some courses should probably be deferred to college or potentially dual enrollment. Getting to Calc BC and Statistics in high school would be sufficient for 98% of students. FCPS shouldn't make policy and curriculum decisions based on the fringe cases.

Except isn’t there a federal / state requirement to offer special classes for these kids? Kinda like special Ed?

[Anonymous]

What is the attrition rate of South Lakes, another IB school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not arguing the merits of IB or AP, per se, but why is Lewis detrimentally impacted by IB and Robinson is not?

Being 100% honest here - I think IB is worse overall than AP and that FCPS should dump it at all schools. Every last one. And go AP for everyone. That shores up a lot of transfer loopholes too because even a smaller HS like Lewis should be able to at least offer Calc AB and some of the other more common AP classes. For context, my HS in the Midwest was smaller than Lewis at around 1500 kids, we had transfers in for a vocational academy and most of those kids weren’t in AP, and we still had the more popular AP classes with enough enrollment. Granted it did make scheduling difficult if the one section of AP Chemistry conflicted with the electives. But kids figured it out.

Kids who take algebra in 7th need more than Calc AB

That will soon go away, didn't you know?? Equity for all = Algebra in 8th.

At some point though, some courses should probably be deferred to college or potentially dual enrollment. Getting to Calc BC and Statistics in high school would be sufficient for 98% of students. FCPS shouldn't make policy and curriculum decisions based on the fringe cases.

Except isn’t there a federal / state requirement to offer special classes for these kids? Kinda like special Ed?

Only to a point. I'm pretty sure FCPS doesn't have to offer every AP advanced class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is the attrition rate of South Lakes, another IB school?

https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:109::::0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:320,0

Entries 90
Re-entries 55
Withdrawls 146

The entries and reentries balance the withdrawls.

I know a good number of students come to SLHS from Herndon HS. I know a good number of students transfer from SLHS for AP or a combo of AP/Japanese.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not arguing the merits of IB or AP, per se, but why is Lewis detrimentally impacted by IB and Robinson is not?

Being 100% honest here - I think IB is worse overall than AP and that FCPS should dump it at all schools. Every last one. And go AP for everyone. That shores up a lot of transfer loopholes too because even a smaller HS like Lewis should be able to at least offer Calc AB and some of the other more common AP classes. For context, my HS in the Midwest was smaller than Lewis at around 1500 kids, we had transfers in for a vocational academy and most of those kids weren’t in AP, and we still had the more popular AP classes with enough enrollment. Granted it did make scheduling difficult if the one section of AP Chemistry conflicted with the electives. But kids figured it out.

Kids who take algebra in 7th need more than Calc AB

That will soon go away, didn't you know?? Equity for all = Algebra in 8th.

At some point though, some courses should probably be deferred to college or potentially dual enrollment. Getting to Calc BC and Statistics in high school would be sufficient for 98% of students. FCPS shouldn't make policy and curriculum decisions based on the fringe cases.

Except isn’t there a federal / state requirement to offer special classes for these kids? Kinda like special Ed?

There are plenty of very small/rural HS that have 0 or 1 AP classes. If you have a really gifted kid who finishes the school’s math offerings by 10th grade they can do dual enrollment or an online class or maybe that’s the 1 kid who needs to transfer out. There are options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the attrition rate of South Lakes, another IB school?

https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:109::::0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:320,0

Entries 90
Re-entries 55
Withdrawls 146

The entries and reentries balance the withdrawls.

I know a good number of students come to SLHS from Herndon HS. I know a good number of students transfer from SLHS for AP or a combo of AP/Japanese.

Do any transfer to Herndon?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the attrition rate of South Lakes, another IB school?

https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:109::::0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:320,0

Entries 90
Re-entries 55
Withdrawls 146

The entries and reentries balance the withdrawls.

I know a good number of students come to SLHS from Herndon HS. I know a good number of students transfer from SLHS for AP or a combo of AP/Japanese.

If I’m reading the data correctly, don’t Annandale, Falls Church High, Mount Vernon, and West Potomac have much higher transfer rates than Lewis?

[Anonymous]

I’m not sure why this thread is so focused on Lewis. They’re not doing the boundary change just because of Lewis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure why this thread is so focused on Lewis. They’re not doing the boundary change just because of Lewis.

Boundary changes tend to be driven by overcrowding or under-enrollment at the HS level. If you look at the five-year projection, and include modular capacity, the only high school projected to be over 110% is West Springfield at 117%. For the same time period, and again including modular capacity, the only schools projected to be under 80% capacity are Lewis at 74%, Herndon at 71%, and Mount Vernon at 67%. Overcrowded West Springfield abuts under-enrolled Lewis, and Lewis is projected to have significantly fewer students than any other FCPS high school in 2028 (1423 students, with the next lowest being Mount Vernon at 1633). So apart from the possibility that they might move part of West Potomac to Mount Vernon, which they should have done years ago but now is less imperative with FCPS having already expanded West Potomac to 3000 seats, which will leave WestPo projected at 91% capacity in 2028, there's no situation they seem to view as crying out for attention like the imbalance between Lewis and West Springfield (projected to have 2925 students by 2028). Plus, the only middle school projected to be overcrowded in 2028, taking into account modular capacity, is Irving at 107%, which will only make it easier to justify an Irving/Key boundary change to accompany a West Springfield/Lewis boundary change.

But the question is whether they'll want to drown out West Springfield parents who won't want to move to Lewis by making a host of other unnecessary boundary changes just for background noise. People should stay vigilant, because this School Board is all about politics, and if they think it will go down better with West Springfield parents if they're moving kids unnecessarily from other schools to new schools they may not hesitate to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the attrition rate of South Lakes, another IB school?

https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:109::::0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:320,0

Entries 90
Re-entries 55
Withdrawls 146

The entries and reentries balance the withdrawls.

I know a good number of students come to SLHS from Herndon HS. I know a good number of students transfer from SLHS for AP or a combo of AP/Japanese.

Do any transfer to Herndon?

Maybe, I don’t so those signs at graduation time in the neighborhood. I have seen Chantilly, Oakton, and TJ signs on walks in the neighborhood. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen but I don’t see evidence of it and none of the kids I know have transfered to Herndon.