Question about the homophobia thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll add an example. Matt Walsh who made “what is a woman” is a self identified theocratic fascist. He’s catholic.

There are gender critical feminists (aka TERFs) opposed to trans people being allowed to transition or exist in the light of day (as they consider a child seeing a trans person = grooming). The people in that group are fairly small in number. Most people opposed to trans people are just the religious right. Catholics and born agains retargeted from abortion to transgender people in order to keep the outrage machine going and the votes coming in.

Do the posters in this thread who think that trans people are simply mentally ill and were complaining about JHU's webpage agree with this? Are all of you simply anti-abortion activists who have been repurposed? I know at least one of the anti-Trans posters is a right-winger, but I think she is basically the exception.

I am the mental health hospital worker and I am 100% pro choice. And not a southern Baptist.

Are you religious?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I made the “original” “What is a Woman?” plug a few pages ago. I watched the documentary and was blown away by the lack of critical thinking the so-called experts in this field have engaged in. The interviewees were medical doctors (including a transwoman surgeon and pediatrician), therapists, professors of gender studies and a person who transitioned who had tremendous complications. You can attack Matt Walsh all you want, but as I said, he simply provides these experts a platform to make their case. The questions he asked were fair and he was respectful and polite. People can bicker back and forth and regurgitate the same arguments - no one is changing anyone’s mind on this thread. I believe Walsh’s documentary does an excellent job exposing how little thought has gone into modern gender ideology. The visceral reaction to even the most basic of questions tells me that its proponents cannot answer the questions nor do they want anyone asking them thus you are a transphobe or bigot.

Are you a right-wing anti-abortion religious fanatic?

You would’ve been a great interviewee for What is A Woman. About as smart and wired the same way emotionally.

Is that a "yes" or a "no". I'm just trying to clarify given the allegation above that the opponents of transgender rights are all right-wing religious anti-abortion activists.

I am not this poster but I’m neither right-wing nor religious nor anti abortion.

Do you vote R?

DP - I am pro choice, not religious, and vote either D or R depending on the candidate. I actually voted for Jo Jorgensen in the last election because I didn’t like either candidate.

Can you tell me what this has to do with anything being discussed on this thread?

If you think that oppressing women is acceptable or not.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading these posts it is plain to me why people are so terrified of the documentary “What is a Woman?” It is must watch.

While I found the documentary to be entertaining, it was really asking the wrong question. The real question is what is a trans woman or trans man.

How can you get to what a trans woman is with first defining “woman?” Pretty sure he was asking the right question.

Why not ask “What is a man?”

Because they aren't scared of trans men. They don't think that trans men are grooming children or that they're a danger to men and children. They do claim that trans women are grooming children and are a danger to women and children so they want trans women to use men's bathrooms.

Hm, I wonder why you think that “they” are scared of trans men but not trans women? What ever could the reason for that be?

transmisogyny. It’s a blanket fear of all trans women.

But why only trans women? If fear is the motivation here, Shouldn’t they be more fearful of trans men since men are more violent?

Are you being intentionally obtuse? They don't see trans men as men.

So your point is that they don’t see trans women as women? Why do you think that is the case?

Because they don’t like transgender people and don’t think they should be allowed to transition or participating in society.

There are six levels of quotations here referring to "they". While I appreciate the avoidance of gendered language, can someone explain who "they" is?

Also, today the Southern Baptist Church voted 88%-11% to kick out a church because it supported female pastors. It will be interesting to see if that gets even 1/10 of the attention that John Hopkins' web page did.

Why are you conflating two entirely separate issues?

I don’t care who evangelicals let preach, just like I don’t care who Muslims, Satanists, Hindus or Zoroastrians let preach.

I thought the issue was women's rights. As some have been arguing, the trans community has little power beyond the ability to yell at people. Anti-trans legislators, on the other hand, have real power to make laws which they have been using not only against trans people, but against women in general. This is another case where those with power, in this case a religious institution with considerable influence, has taken clear cut action against women's rights. Something with more impact than a webpage. I expected it might generate, at best, a yawn. But, I was overly optimistic since it actually resulted in me being admonished. Maybe I was wrong about women's rights being the main concern?

The judge in Washington forcing the spa to remove single-sex restrictions seems to have real power.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I made the “original” “What is a Woman?” plug a few pages ago. I watched the documentary and was blown away by the lack of critical thinking the so-called experts in this field have engaged in. The interviewees were medical doctors (including a transwoman surgeon and pediatrician), therapists, professors of gender studies and a person who transitioned who had tremendous complications. You can attack Matt Walsh all you want, but as I said, he simply provides these experts a platform to make their case. The questions he asked were fair and he was respectful and polite. People can bicker back and forth and regurgitate the same arguments - no one is changing anyone’s mind on this thread. I believe Walsh’s documentary does an excellent job exposing how little thought has gone into modern gender ideology. The visceral reaction to even the most basic of questions tells me that its proponents cannot answer the questions nor do they want anyone asking them thus you are a transphobe or bigot.

Are you a right-wing anti-abortion religious fanatic?

You would’ve been a great interviewee for What is A Woman. About as smart and wired the same way emotionally.

Is that a "yes" or a "no". I'm just trying to clarify given the allegation above that the opponents of transgender rights are all right-wing religious anti-abortion activists.

I am not this poster but I’m neither right-wing nor religious nor anti abortion.

Do you vote R?

DP - I am pro choice, not religious, and vote either D or R depending on the candidate. I actually voted for Jo Jorgensen in the last election because I didn’t like either candidate.

Can you tell me what this has to do with anything being discussed on this thread?

If you think that oppressing women is acceptable or not.

I think that oppressing females is not acceptable. The word woman no longer has a tangible meaning so I can’t answer your question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll add an example. Matt Walsh who made “what is a woman” is a self identified theocratic fascist. He’s catholic.

There are gender critical feminists (aka TERFs) opposed to trans people being allowed to transition or exist in the light of day (as they consider a child seeing a trans person = grooming). The people in that group are fairly small in number. Most people opposed to trans people are just the religious right. Catholics and born agains retargeted from abortion to transgender people in order to keep the outrage machine going and the votes coming in.

Do the posters in this thread who think that trans people are simply mentally ill and were complaining about JHU's webpage agree with this? Are all of you simply anti-abortion activists who have been repurposed? I know at least one of the anti-Trans posters is a right-winger, but I think she is basically the exception.

I am the mental health hospital worker and I am 100% pro choice. And not a southern Baptist.

Are you religious?

I believe in God. But I do not go to church or align myself with any specific religion. Was raised Catholic but haven’t practiced in many years. No more organized religion for me.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:It looks like my comments were deleted. Why was that?

My agenda is women’s sex-based rights. Sex (biology) and gender (cultural norms and stereotypes) are not the same thing. Scientific reality and evolutionary biology shows is that there are sex based differences between males and females. Males will always have vastly superior physical dominance. This is a result of evolutionary biology. Therefore females need the ability to have sex-segregated spaces.

Gender are cultural norms, attitudes, and stereotypes which are related to sexual differences. Men provide for the family and females tend to the home. Gender norms are often limited and regressive, but not necessarily so. Society should work to remove gender stereotypes which are limiting. Women should be free provide for the family or be hunters. Men should be able to care for the home or wear dresses.

it is impossible for me to confirm or deny if I am “anti trans” because no one in nearly 80 pages of discussion has been able to define gender identity. Is it having gender dysphoria? Clearly not, people have said. Is it not believing in not following harmful and regressive gender stereotypes? Clearly not, people have said. If you want to call me anti trans for asking these questions, so be it.

None of your comments were deleted.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading these posts it is plain to me why people are so terrified of the documentary “What is a Woman?” It is must watch.

While I found the documentary to be entertaining, it was really asking the wrong question. The real question is what is a trans woman or trans man.

How can you get to what a trans woman is with first defining “woman?” Pretty sure he was asking the right question.

Why not ask “What is a man?”

Because they aren't scared of trans men. They don't think that trans men are grooming children or that they're a danger to men and children. They do claim that trans women are grooming children and are a danger to women and children so they want trans women to use men's bathrooms.

Hm, I wonder why you think that “they” are scared of trans men but not trans women? What ever could the reason for that be?

transmisogyny. It’s a blanket fear of all trans women.

But why only trans women? If fear is the motivation here, Shouldn’t they be more fearful of trans men since men are more violent?

Are you being intentionally obtuse? They don't see trans men as men.

So your point is that they don’t see trans women as women? Why do you think that is the case?

Because they don’t like transgender people and don’t think they should be allowed to transition or participating in society.

There are six levels of quotations here referring to "they". While I appreciate the avoidance of gendered language, can someone explain who "they" is?

Also, today the Southern Baptist Church voted 88%-11% to kick out a church because it supported female pastors. It will be interesting to see if that gets even 1/10 of the attention that John Hopkins' web page did.

Why are you conflating two entirely separate issues?

I don’t care who evangelicals let preach, just like I don’t care who Muslims, Satanists, Hindus or Zoroastrians let preach.

I thought the issue was women's rights. As some have been arguing, the trans community has little power beyond the ability to yell at people. Anti-trans legislators, on the other hand, have real power to make laws which they have been using not only against trans people, but against women in general. This is another case where those with power, in this case a religious institution with considerable influence, has taken clear cut action against women's rights. Something with more impact than a webpage. I expected it might generate, at best, a yawn. But, I was overly optimistic since it actually resulted in me being admonished. Maybe I was wrong about women's rights being the main concern?

No. Your premise is false. The trans community has already demonstrated its power to deny females their rights to define themselves and have the ability have sex segregated spaces like prisons, sports, and rape crisis centers. That is not little power, no?

No one is trying to make females (or males for that matter) adhere to evangelicalism or Islam or any other traditional faith based system. The only faith based system that is being enforced through legislation is transgenderism and gender identity.

You are exaggerating what you believe trans activists have achieved. Very few transwomen are housed in women's prison in the US. Biden just proposed to allow schools to block transgender athletes. You are mimicking JK Rowling's agenda but not one applicable to the US.

Some people are actually attempting to force people to adhere to various religious doctrines. But, even if they weren't, I'd think that a clear cut effort to limit the rights of women would be worth at least a mention by self-proclaimed women's rights proponents. Instead, you it seems you prefer to ignore it.

Where are these people trying to force people to adhere to their religious doctrines through legislation? It appears that you are trying to make the case that evangelicals or Orthodox Jews or Muslims who limit the role of females within their own religion is the same thing as when the government denies females the ability have segregated spaces in public spaces.

I don't believe that I mentioned the word "legislation" at all. But, what legislation has denied females the ability to have segregated public spaces? Compare that to the legislation that has taken away trans rights. For that matter, consider legislation that has no relation to transgender people at all that has taken away women's rights?

Every post you make is more revealing of your true agenda and nothing suggests that women's rights are actually a priority.

We have already discussed the legislation in Washington which forces the spa to accept males and the the legislation in CA and NJ which prevents prisons from being sex-segregated for females only.

The spa in Washington was the result of a judge's ruling upholding a decision by the Washington State Human Rights Commission. That was not legislated. New Jersey's placement of transgender females was not legislated either, but a decision by the Department of Corrections that has been reversed. Only California legislated the right for prisoners to request to be housed according to their gender identity. Even that is not automatic.

So, you have been able to identify one item of legislation. Congrats.

Now, consider the number of laws restricting abortion or otherwise limiting women's access to healthcare?

Consider the onslaught of anti-trans legislation that the trans community is facing?

Are we really witnessing a display of trans power? Can anyone rationally believe that?

If your concern is women's rights, should trans people really be your biggest concern?

I thought this thread was discussing homophobia and the original thread about LBGTQ issues. So you want us to talk about abortion and other non-LBTGQ women’s topics here instead of the abortion threads? Usually that is grounds for deletion or being told to take it to the other thread.

The topics are linked. Posters in this thread have said that their anti-trans positions are motivated by concerns about women's rights. But even the most rudimentary analysis shows that trans people have had very little impact on women's rights. Yes, a spa here, a webpage there, and California prisons have some arguably negative impact. But, all of that pales in comparison to the harmful effects of anti-women legislation being passed by, in many cases, the same legislators who are also passing anti-trans legislation. If your concern is about women's rights is focused on the molehill of transgender women while you ignore the mountain of anti-women legislation, I am skeptical that women's rights are your real concern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading these posts it is plain to me why people are so terrified of the documentary “What is a Woman?” It is must watch.

While I found the documentary to be entertaining, it was really asking the wrong question. The real question is what is a trans woman or trans man.

How can you get to what a trans woman is with first defining “woman?” Pretty sure he was asking the right question.

Why not ask “What is a man?”

Because they aren't scared of trans men. They don't think that trans men are grooming children or that they're a danger to men and children. They do claim that trans women are grooming children and are a danger to women and children so they want trans women to use men's bathrooms.

Hm, I wonder why you think that “they” are scared of trans men but not trans women? What ever could the reason for that be?

transmisogyny. It’s a blanket fear of all trans women.

But why only trans women? If fear is the motivation here, Shouldn’t they be more fearful of trans men since men are more violent?

Are you being intentionally obtuse? They don't see trans men as men.

So your point is that they don’t see trans women as women? Why do you think that is the case?

Because they don’t like transgender people and don’t think they should be allowed to transition or participating in society.

There are six levels of quotations here referring to "they". While I appreciate the avoidance of gendered language, can someone explain who "they" is?

Also, today the Southern Baptist Church voted 88%-11% to kick out a church because it supported female pastors. It will be interesting to see if that gets even 1/10 of the attention that John Hopkins' web page did.

Why are you conflating two entirely separate issues?

I don’t care who evangelicals let preach, just like I don’t care who Muslims, Satanists, Hindus or Zoroastrians let preach.

I thought the issue was women's rights. As some have been arguing, the trans community has little power beyond the ability to yell at people. Anti-trans legislators, on the other hand, have real power to make laws which they have been using not only against trans people, but against women in general. This is another case where those with power, in this case a religious institution with considerable influence, has taken clear cut action against women's rights. Something with more impact than a webpage. I expected it might generate, at best, a yawn. But, I was overly optimistic since it actually resulted in me being admonished. Maybe I was wrong about women's rights being the main concern?

No. Your premise is false. The trans community has already demonstrated its power to deny females their rights to define themselves and have the ability have sex segregated spaces like prisons, sports, and rape crisis centers. That is not little power, no?

No one is trying to make females (or males for that matter) adhere to evangelicalism or Islam or any other traditional faith based system. The only faith based system that is being enforced through legislation is transgenderism and gender identity.

So it’s not about women’s rights for you?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading these posts it is plain to me why people are so terrified of the documentary “What is a Woman?” It is must watch.

While I found the documentary to be entertaining, it was really asking the wrong question. The real question is what is a trans woman or trans man.

How can you get to what a trans woman is with first defining “woman?” Pretty sure he was asking the right question.

Why not ask “What is a man?”

Because they aren't scared of trans men. They don't think that trans men are grooming children or that they're a danger to men and children. They do claim that trans women are grooming children and are a danger to women and children so they want trans women to use men's bathrooms.

Hm, I wonder why you think that “they” are scared of trans men but not trans women? What ever could the reason for that be?

transmisogyny. It’s a blanket fear of all trans women.

But why only trans women? If fear is the motivation here, Shouldn’t they be more fearful of trans men since men are more violent?

Are you being intentionally obtuse? They don't see trans men as men.

So your point is that they don’t see trans women as women? Why do you think that is the case?

Because they don’t like transgender people and don’t think they should be allowed to transition or participating in society.

There are six levels of quotations here referring to "they". While I appreciate the avoidance of gendered language, can someone explain who "they" is?

Also, today the Southern Baptist Church voted 88%-11% to kick out a church because it supported female pastors. It will be interesting to see if that gets even 1/10 of the attention that John Hopkins' web page did.

Why are you conflating two entirely separate issues?

I don’t care who evangelicals let preach, just like I don’t care who Muslims, Satanists, Hindus or Zoroastrians let preach.

I thought the issue was women's rights. As some have been arguing, the trans community has little power beyond the ability to yell at people. Anti-trans legislators, on the other hand, have real power to make laws which they have been using not only against trans people, but against women in general. This is another case where those with power, in this case a religious institution with considerable influence, has taken clear cut action against women's rights. Something with more impact than a webpage. I expected it might generate, at best, a yawn. But, I was overly optimistic since it actually resulted in me being admonished. Maybe I was wrong about women's rights being the main concern?

No. Your premise is false. The trans community has already demonstrated its power to deny females their rights to define themselves and have the ability have sex segregated spaces like prisons, sports, and rape crisis centers. That is not little power, no?

No one is trying to make females (or males for that matter) adhere to evangelicalism or Islam or any other traditional faith based system. The only faith based system that is being enforced through legislation is transgenderism and gender identity.

You are exaggerating what you believe trans activists have achieved. Very few transwomen are housed in women's prison in the US. Biden just proposed to allow schools to block transgender athletes. You are mimicking JK Rowling's agenda but not one applicable to the US.

Some people are actually attempting to force people to adhere to various religious doctrines. But, even if they weren't, I'd think that a clear cut effort to limit the rights of women would be worth at least a mention by self-proclaimed women's rights proponents. Instead, you it seems you prefer to ignore it.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It looks like my comments were deleted. Why was that?

My agenda is women’s sex-based rights. Sex (biology) and gender (cultural norms and stereotypes) are not the same thing. Scientific reality and evolutionary biology shows is that there are sex based differences between males and females. Males will always have vastly superior physical dominance. This is a result of evolutionary biology. Therefore females need the ability to have sex-segregated spaces.

Gender are cultural norms, attitudes, and stereotypes which are related to sexual differences. Men provide for the family and females tend to the home. Gender norms are often limited and regressive, but not necessarily so. Society should work to remove gender stereotypes which are limiting. Women should be free provide for the family or be hunters. Men should be able to care for the home or wear dresses.

it is impossible for me to confirm or deny if I am “anti trans” because no one in nearly 80 pages of discussion has been able to define gender identity. Is it having gender dysphoria? Clearly not, people have said. Is it not believing in not following harmful and regressive gender stereotypes? Clearly not, people have said. If you want to call me anti trans for asking these questions, so be it.

Lies. People have explained it multiple times.

You are anti-trans AND anti-woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I made the “original” “What is a Woman?” plug a few pages ago. I watched the documentary and was blown away by the lack of critical thinking the so-called experts in this field have engaged in. The interviewees were medical doctors (including a transwoman surgeon and pediatrician), therapists, professors of gender studies and a person who transitioned who had tremendous complications. You can attack Matt Walsh all you want, but as I said, he simply provides these experts a platform to make their case. The questions he asked were fair and he was respectful and polite. People can bicker back and forth and regurgitate the same arguments - no one is changing anyone’s mind on this thread. I believe Walsh’s documentary does an excellent job exposing how little thought has gone into modern gender ideology. The visceral reaction to even the most basic of questions tells me that its proponents cannot answer the questions nor do they want anyone asking them thus you are a transphobe or bigot.

Are you a right-wing anti-abortion religious fanatic?

You would’ve been a great interviewee for What is A Woman. About as smart and wired the same way emotionally.

Is that a "yes" or a "no". I'm just trying to clarify given the allegation above that the opponents of transgender rights are all right-wing religious anti-abortion activists.

I am not this poster but I’m neither right-wing nor religious nor anti abortion.

Do you vote R?

DP - I am pro choice, not religious, and vote either D or R depending on the candidate. I actually voted for Jo Jorgensen in the last election because I didn’t like either candidate.

Can you tell me what this has to do with anything being discussed on this thread?

If you think that oppressing women is acceptable or not.

I think that oppressing females is not acceptable. The word woman no longer has a tangible meaning so I can’t answer your question.

Should the religious right be able to tell women (and others) what they can and cannot do with their own body/life?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"I think all the transes are mentally ill and shouldn't be allowed to transition."

"That's transphobic!"

"You're silencing me! I can't even say what I believe without being called a transphobe. You're so powerful!" (then continues to be "silenced" lol.)

Follow this up by calling everyone misogynistic and sexist despite this board being almost all women and nothing anyone is saying is misogynistic. You're literally trying to silence others while claiming you're silenced.

You left out the part where they don’t actually GAF about women’s rights.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading these posts it is plain to me why people are so terrified of the documentary “What is a Woman?” It is must watch.

While I found the documentary to be entertaining, it was really asking the wrong question. The real question is what is a trans woman or trans man.

How can you get to what a trans woman is with first defining “woman?” Pretty sure he was asking the right question.

Why not ask “What is a man?”

Because they aren't scared of trans men. They don't think that trans men are grooming children or that they're a danger to men and children. They do claim that trans women are grooming children and are a danger to women and children so they want trans women to use men's bathrooms.

Hm, I wonder why you think that “they” are scared of trans men but not trans women? What ever could the reason for that be?

transmisogyny. It’s a blanket fear of all trans women.

But why only trans women? If fear is the motivation here, Shouldn’t they be more fearful of trans men since men are more violent?

Are you being intentionally obtuse? They don't see trans men as men.

So your point is that they don’t see trans women as women? Why do you think that is the case?

Because they don’t like transgender people and don’t think they should be allowed to transition or participating in society.

There are six levels of quotations here referring to "they". While I appreciate the avoidance of gendered language, can someone explain who "they" is?

Also, today the Southern Baptist Church voted 88%-11% to kick out a church because it supported female pastors. It will be interesting to see if that gets even 1/10 of the attention that John Hopkins' web page did.

Why are you conflating two entirely separate issues?

I don’t care who evangelicals let preach, just like I don’t care who Muslims, Satanists, Hindus or Zoroastrians let preach.

I thought the issue was women's rights. As some have been arguing, the trans community has little power beyond the ability to yell at people. Anti-trans legislators, on the other hand, have real power to make laws which they have been using not only against trans people, but against women in general. This is another case where those with power, in this case a religious institution with considerable influence, has taken clear cut action against women's rights. Something with more impact than a webpage. I expected it might generate, at best, a yawn. But, I was overly optimistic since it actually resulted in me being admonished. Maybe I was wrong about women's rights being the main concern?

No. Your premise is false. The trans community has already demonstrated its power to deny females their rights to define themselves and have the ability have sex segregated spaces like prisons, sports, and rape crisis centers. That is not little power, no?

No one is trying to make females (or males for that matter) adhere to evangelicalism or Islam or any other traditional faith based system. The only faith based system that is being enforced through legislation is transgenderism and gender identity.

You are exaggerating what you believe trans activists have achieved. Very few transwomen are housed in women's prison in the US. Biden just proposed to allow schools to block transgender athletes. You are mimicking JK Rowling's agenda but not one applicable to the US.

Some people are actually attempting to force people to adhere to various religious doctrines. But, even if they weren't, I'd think that a clear cut effort to limit the rights of women would be worth at least a mention by self-proclaimed women's rights proponents. Instead, you it seems you prefer to ignore it.

Where are these people trying to force people to adhere to their religious doctrines through legislation? It appears that you are trying to make the case that evangelicals or Orthodox Jews or Muslims who limit the role of females within their own religion is the same thing as when the government denies females the ability have segregated spaces in public spaces.

I don't believe that I mentioned the word "legislation" at all. But, what legislation has denied females the ability to have segregated public spaces? Compare that to the legislation that has taken away trans rights. For that matter, consider legislation that has no relation to transgender people at all that has taken away women's rights?

Every post you make is more revealing of your true agenda and nothing suggests that women's rights are actually a priority.

We have already discussed the legislation in Washington which forces the spa to accept males and the the legislation in CA and NJ which prevents prisons from being sex-segregated for females only.

The spa in Washington was the result of a judge's ruling upholding a decision by the Washington State Human Rights Commission. That was not legislated. New Jersey's placement of transgender females was not legislated either, but a decision by the Department of Corrections that has been reversed. Only California legislated the right for prisoners to request to be housed according to their gender identity. Even that is not automatic.

So, you have been able to identify one item of legislation. Congrats.

Now, consider the number of laws restricting abortion or otherwise limiting women's access to healthcare?

Consider the onslaught of anti-trans legislation that the trans community is facing?

Are we really witnessing a display of trans power? Can anyone rationally believe that?

If your concern is women's rights, should trans people really be your biggest concern?

I thought this thread was discussing homophobia and the original thread about LBGTQ issues. So you want us to talk about abortion and other non-LBTGQ women’s topics here instead of the abortion threads? Usually that is grounds for deletion or being told to take it to the other thread.

The topics are linked. Posters in this thread have said that their anti-trans positions are motivated by concerns about women's rights. But even the most rudimentary analysis shows that trans people have had very little impact on women's rights. Yes, a spa here, a webpage there, and California prisons have some arguably negative impact. But, all of that pales in comparison to the harmful effects of anti-women legislation being passed by, in many cases, the same legislators who are also passing anti-trans legislation. If your concern is about women's rights is focused on the molehill of transgender women while you ignore the mountain of anti-women legislation, I am skeptical that women's rights are your real concern.

I’m a different PP. I do not support bathroom bans or bans on youth care, though I firmly believe the science for medicalized youth gender transition is appallingly weak and profit-driven, and will be regarded in the same category as youth lobotomies in about twenty years. However, in the event I am wrong, I do not think the state should intervene with a ban. I do think malpractice caps should be removed.

I am strongly pro-choice. I actually don’t think I can support a ban on trans healthcare for youth (even if I believe the care is exploitative) while also being pro-choice. That seems very inconsistent to me.

In general, I have no idea why pro-trans rights people minimize the desired elimination of single-sex spaces the way they do in these discussions. Honestly I think that this debate would be a lot more honest and not as contentious if pro-trans people just straight-up said, yes, we want to eliminate the ability for people to create sex-based (not gender-based) spaces and we think that’s a societal good for this and that reason. There are potential reasons that could be discussed. But instead it’s this constant gaslighting: oh, you’re just scared of penises; oh, it’s just a few people; oh, why do women even care if they win a race anyhow, they shouldn’t be so competitive; oh, because Republican politicians are so bad generally, you shouldn’t be concerned with policies that lead to removal of same-sex spaces. It’s ridiculous and I think one of the reasons this has become such a politically weighted issue is because of that lack of honesty and the feeling that the general population has that they’re being gaslit on this issue by trans rights advocates. There is a reason the Walsh documentary is as popular as it is: he used the Jon Stewart mechanism of just letting people talk, and they come across as simply dishonest or at best utterly confused as a result. (For what it’s worth, I thought the sexism in the documentary was appalling.) Nobody likes feeling like they’re are being gaslit, and that’s what’s going on here.

I have no idea why you linked the Southern Baptist ban, but it seems largely irrelevant to me. The eventual destruction of single-sex spaces is more likely to impact my day-to-day life than what some already-crazy fundamentalists do. If anything the Southern Baptists seem to entirely agree with JHU that women are at best considered “non-men.” You seem to be treating this SB thing as some sort of gotcha and I genuinely don’t understand that. Frankly I view the SB position as entirely consistent with JHU’s position on the role and identity of women.

Appreciate the interesting discussion. It’s definitely made me think.

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Anonymous wrote:I made the “original” “What is a Woman?” plug a few pages ago. I watched the documentary and was blown away by the lack of critical thinking the so-called experts in this field have engaged in. The interviewees were medical doctors (including a transwoman surgeon and pediatrician), therapists, professors of gender studies and a person who transitioned who had tremendous complications. You can attack Matt Walsh all you want, but as I said, he simply provides these experts a platform to make their case. The questions he asked were fair and he was respectful and polite. People can bicker back and forth and regurgitate the same arguments - no one is changing anyone’s mind on this thread. I believe Walsh’s documentary does an excellent job exposing how little thought has gone into modern gender ideology. The visceral reaction to even the most basic of questions tells me that its proponents cannot answer the questions nor do they want anyone asking them thus you are a transphobe or bigot.

Are you a right-wing anti-abortion religious fanatic?

You would’ve been a great interviewee for What is A Woman. About as smart and wired the same way emotionally.

Is that a "yes" or a "no". I'm just trying to clarify given the allegation above that the opponents of transgender rights are all right-wing religious anti-abortion activists.

I am not this poster but I’m neither right-wing nor religious nor anti abortion.

Do you vote R?

DP - I am pro choice, not religious, and vote either D or R depending on the candidate. I actually voted for Jo Jorgensen in the last election because I didn’t like either candidate.

Can you tell me what this has to do with anything being discussed on this thread?

If you think that oppressing women is acceptable or not.

I think that oppressing females is not acceptable. The word woman no longer has a tangible meaning so I can’t answer your question.

Should the religious right be able to tell women (and others) what they can and cannot do with their own body/life?

I firmly believe they shouldn’t mess with a females reproductive rights. The rest I don’t care about. Unless someone tries to pass a law that says females belong in the kitchen, then call me. But I suspect that isn’t going to happen.

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Anonymous wrote:Reading these posts it is plain to me why people are so terrified of the documentary “What is a Woman?” It is must watch.

While I found the documentary to be entertaining, it was really asking the wrong question. The real question is what is a trans woman or trans man.

How can you get to what a trans woman is with first defining “woman?” Pretty sure he was asking the right question.

Why not ask “What is a man?”

Because they aren't scared of trans men. They don't think that trans men are grooming children or that they're a danger to men and children. They do claim that trans women are grooming children and are a danger to women and children so they want trans women to use men's bathrooms.

Hm, I wonder why you think that “they” are scared of trans men but not trans women? What ever could the reason for that be?

transmisogyny. It’s a blanket fear of all trans women.

But why only trans women? If fear is the motivation here, Shouldn’t they be more fearful of trans men since men are more violent?

Are you being intentionally obtuse? They don't see trans men as men.

So your point is that they don’t see trans women as women? Why do you think that is the case?

Because they don’t like transgender people and don’t think they should be allowed to transition or participating in society.

There are six levels of quotations here referring to "they". While I appreciate the avoidance of gendered language, can someone explain who "they" is?

Also, today the Southern Baptist Church voted 88%-11% to kick out a church because it supported female pastors. It will be interesting to see if that gets even 1/10 of the attention that John Hopkins' web page did.

Why are you conflating two entirely separate issues?

I don’t care who evangelicals let preach, just like I don’t care who Muslims, Satanists, Hindus or Zoroastrians let preach.

I thought the issue was women's rights. As some have been arguing, the trans community has little power beyond the ability to yell at people. Anti-trans legislators, on the other hand, have real power to make laws which they have been using not only against trans people, but against women in general. This is another case where those with power, in this case a religious institution with considerable influence, has taken clear cut action against women's rights. Something with more impact than a webpage. I expected it might generate, at best, a yawn. But, I was overly optimistic since it actually resulted in me being admonished. Maybe I was wrong about women's rights being the main concern?

No. Your premise is false. The trans community has already demonstrated its power to deny females their rights to define themselves and have the ability have sex segregated spaces like prisons, sports, and rape crisis centers. That is not little power, no?

No one is trying to make females (or males for that matter) adhere to evangelicalism or Islam or any other traditional faith based system. The only faith based system that is being enforced through legislation is transgenderism and gender identity.

You are exaggerating what you believe trans activists have achieved. Very few transwomen are housed in women's prison in the US. Biden just proposed to allow schools to block transgender athletes. You are mimicking JK Rowling's agenda but not one applicable to the US.

Some people are actually attempting to force people to adhere to various religious doctrines. But, even if they weren't, I'd think that a clear cut effort to limit the rights of women would be worth at least a mention by self-proclaimed women's rights proponents. Instead, you it seems you prefer to ignore it.

Where are these people trying to force people to adhere to their religious doctrines through legislation? It appears that you are trying to make the case that evangelicals or Orthodox Jews or Muslims who limit the role of females within their own religion is the same thing as when the government denies females the ability have segregated spaces in public spaces.

I don't believe that I mentioned the word "legislation" at all. But, what legislation has denied females the ability to have segregated public spaces? Compare that to the legislation that has taken away trans rights. For that matter, consider legislation that has no relation to transgender people at all that has taken away women's rights?

Every post you make is more revealing of your true agenda and nothing suggests that women's rights are actually a priority.

We have already discussed the legislation in Washington which forces the spa to accept males and the the legislation in CA and NJ which prevents prisons from being sex-segregated for females only.

The spa in Washington was the result of a judge's ruling upholding a decision by the Washington State Human Rights Commission. That was not legislated. New Jersey's placement of transgender females was not legislated either, but a decision by the Department of Corrections that has been reversed. Only California legislated the right for prisoners to request to be housed according to their gender identity. Even that is not automatic.

So, you have been able to identify one item of legislation. Congrats.

Now, consider the number of laws restricting abortion or otherwise limiting women's access to healthcare?

Consider the onslaught of anti-trans legislation that the trans community is facing?

Are we really witnessing a display of trans power? Can anyone rationally believe that?

If your concern is women's rights, should trans people really be your biggest concern?

I thought this thread was discussing homophobia and the original thread about LBGTQ issues. So you want us to talk about abortion and other non-LBTGQ women’s topics here instead of the abortion threads? Usually that is grounds for deletion or being told to take it to the other thread.

The topics are linked. Posters in this thread have said that their anti-trans positions are motivated by concerns about women's rights. But even the most rudimentary analysis shows that trans people have had very little impact on women's rights. Yes, a spa here, a webpage there, and California prisons have some arguably negative impact. But, all of that pales in comparison to the harmful effects of anti-women legislation being passed by, in many cases, the same legislators who are also passing anti-trans legislation. If your concern is about women's rights is focused on the molehill of transgender women while you ignore the mountain of anti-women legislation, I am skeptical that women's rights are your real concern.

How interesting that you, presumably a cis male, feel that your opinion about about the various dimensions of sex based oppression of women, supersede an actual woman’s opinions on this topic.