New NBER paper: White Flight from Asian Immigration: Evidence from California Public Schools

[Anonymous]

https://www.nber.org/papers/w31434

Spicy!

This paper studies white flight from Asian arrivals in high-socioeconomic-status Californian school districts from 2000-2016 using initial settlement patterns and national immigrant flows to instrument for entry. We find that, as Asian students arrive, white student enrollment declines in higher-income suburbs. These patterns cannot be fully explained by racial animus, housing prices, or correlations with Black/Hispanic arrivals. Parental fears of academic competition may play a role.

[Anonymous]

For some confirming evidence, look at the collapsing white application numbers for TJ, in the dissent to the 4th circuit opinion (page 58 of the pdf).

https://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinions/221280.P.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nber.org/papers/w31434

Spicy!

This paper studies white flight from Asian arrivals in high-socioeconomic-status Californian school districts from 2000-2016 using initial settlement patterns and national immigrant flows to instrument for entry. We find that, as Asian students arrive, white student enrollment declines in higher-income suburbs. These patterns cannot be fully explained by racial animus, housing prices, or correlations with Black/Hispanic arrivals. Parental fears of academic competition may play a role.

Didn’t read the paper but what if there are just fewer white kids to go around and/or the white families get outbid by Asian families? Either way it’s lovely to know our absence gets so much attention. Apparently there are too many white people around except when there are too few.

[Anonymous]

As a parent in a mixed Asian-white marriage, I can say that this is hardly news to anyone in “good” school districts. Many Asian parents place a very high value on living in a good school district and will do anything to move to a good one. Many “good” school districts are very white, because of the legacy of property taxes, redlining, and school segregation. They become less white if more Asian people join them.

On the flip side, yes, math suggests that if enough Asian people move to a formerly white school, it will become majority Asian. I don’t think the white flight is just because of academic competition, and what isn’t being discussed is Asian flight. I think it has to also do with big-picture values. A lot of Asian immigrants want nothing to do with sports and are focused on school first and maybe ballet or an individual sport like gymnastics or swimming or tennis. Eventually if enough people demand that public schools are run a certain way, they will be. It’s a little different by the time a school is majority 1st generation and often very different by the 2nd. There are also different perspectives on what school should be like across generations and ethnic backgrounds, especially when it comes to homework, parent involvement, discipline, etc.

Where it gets really interesting are where 1st/2nd generation and immigrant families collide. We see this within our own family and in our area. There is a ton of cultural tension (but no public conflict) at school and at my daughter’s sports. The parents who are mandarin-speaking expats want very different things than the parents who are 2nd generation from Japan or HK and went to liberal arts colleges- which makes sense, because we are at different places in establishing ourselves. The next step is that more chill 1st + generation families like mine seek out different environments that are more in line with our values, and then the process repeats itself.

One thing to remember: depending on where you live in the US, there are many Asian families who were alive during incarceration during WWII, redlining, and anti-miscegenation laws. Others weren’t even allowed to immigrate to this country until the 60s, and then only if they were the very best and brightest. When your land and property have been seized by the government or you’re only allowed to immigrate here based on your intellectual capabilities, yes, you’re going to put a LOT of weight on academic achievement because it’s the only thing no one can take away.

[Anonymous]

Interesting. Seems likely.

I know I did not want to buy in some of the very heavily Asian majority school zones out of concern for ending up in too much of a pressure cooker environment. And then after all that oldest DC opted for TJ… But at least that was a choice vs feeling like our home school was a mismatch in vibe for our family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. Seems likely.

I know I did not want to buy in some of the very heavily Asian majority school zones out of concern for ending up in too much of a pressure cooker environment. And then after all that oldest DC opted for TJ… But at least that was a choice vs feeling like our home school was a mismatch in vibe for our family.

I don’t think you can point to another public high school in the DC region that is majority Asian besides TJ. There are a limited number that are plurality Asian but not majority, whereas there are quite a few high schools in the region that are majority White, Hispanic, or Black.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent in a mixed Asian-white marriage, I can say that this is hardly news to anyone in “good” school districts. Many Asian parents place a very high value on living in a good school district and will do anything to move to a good one. Many “good” school districts are very white, because of the legacy of property taxes, redlining, and school segregation. They become less white if more Asian people join them.

On the flip side, yes, math suggests that if enough Asian people move to a formerly white school, it will become majority Asian. I don’t think the white flight is just because of academic competition, and what isn’t being discussed is Asian flight. I think it has to also do with big-picture values. A lot of Asian immigrants want nothing to do with sports and are focused on school first and maybe ballet or an individual sport like gymnastics or swimming or tennis. Eventually if enough people demand that public schools are run a certain way, they will be. It’s a little different by the time a school is majority 1st generation and often very different by the 2nd. There are also different perspectives on what school should be like across generations and ethnic backgrounds, especially when it comes to homework, parent involvement, discipline, etc.

Where it gets really interesting are where 1st/2nd generation and immigrant families collide. We see this within our own family and in our area. There is a ton of cultural tension (but no public conflict) at school and at my daughter’s sports. The parents who are mandarin-speaking expats want very different things than the parents who are 2nd generation from Japan or HK and went to liberal arts colleges- which makes sense, because we are at different places in establishing ourselves. The next step is that more chill 1st + generation families like mine seek out different environments that are more in line with our values, and then the process repeats itself.

One thing to remember: depending on where you live in the US, there are many Asian families who were alive during incarceration during WWII, redlining, and anti-miscegenation laws. Others weren’t even allowed to immigrate to this country until the 60s, and then only if they were the very best and brightest. When your land and property have been seized by the government or you’re only allowed to immigrate here based on your intellectual capabilities, yes, you’re going to put a LOT of weight on academic achievement because it’s the only thing no one can take away.

I am Asian and agree with all of this, esp the part about immigrants vs 2ns generation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent in a mixed Asian-white marriage, I can say that this is hardly news to anyone in “good” school districts. Many Asian parents place a very high value on living in a good school district and will do anything to move to a good one. Many “good” school districts are very white, because of the legacy of property taxes, redlining, and school segregation. They become less white if more Asian people join them.

On the flip side, yes, math suggests that if enough Asian people move to a formerly white school, it will become majority Asian. I don’t think the white flight is just because of academic competition, and what isn’t being discussed is Asian flight. I think it has to also do with big-picture values. A lot of Asian immigrants want nothing to do with sports and are focused on school first and maybe ballet or an individual sport like gymnastics or swimming or tennis. Eventually if enough people demand that public schools are run a certain way, they will be. It’s a little different by the time a school is majority 1st generation and often very different by the 2nd. There are also different perspectives on what school should be like across generations and ethnic backgrounds, especially when it comes to homework, parent involvement, discipline, etc.

Where it gets really interesting are where 1st/2nd generation and immigrant families collide. We see this within our own family and in our area. There is a ton of cultural tension (but no public conflict) at school and at my daughter’s sports. The parents who are mandarin-speaking expats want very different things than the parents who are 2nd generation from Japan or HK and went to liberal arts colleges- which makes sense, because we are at different places in establishing ourselves. The next step is that more chill 1st + generation families like mine seek out different environments that are more in line with our values, and then the process repeats itself.

One thing to remember: depending on where you live in the US, there are many Asian families who were alive during incarceration during WWII, redlining, and anti-miscegenation laws. Others weren’t even allowed to immigrate to this country until the 60s, and then only if they were the very best and brightest. When your land and property have been seized by the government or you’re only allowed to immigrate here based on your intellectual capabilities, yes, you’re going to put a LOT of weight on academic achievement because it’s the only thing no one can take away.

Thank you for your nuanced and helpful post!

I am white European/Asian and before coming to the US, knew very little about the tensions and dynamics of Asian immigration here. Even though we're new to the country, we align more with your description of second generation Asians than first generations. It's been an interesting adventure, educating our kids here and navigating the gaze of non-Asians who expect us to behave in a certain way (we don't! we're also European!), and navigating the different opinions of variously assimilated Asians from vastly different cultures.

[Anonymous]

It feels like there are school districts that are not very good in terms of teaching, but they have a reputation for being good. This brings in a lot of Asians that want to be in a top school district. These higher caliber students then raise the scores of the school district, and the process repeats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent in a mixed Asian-white marriage, I can say that this is hardly news to anyone in “good” school districts. Many Asian parents place a very high value on living in a good school district and will do anything to move to a good one. Many “good” school districts are very white, because of the legacy of property taxes, redlining, and school segregation. They become less white if more Asian people join them.

On the flip side, yes, math suggests that if enough Asian people move to a formerly white school, it will become majority Asian. I don’t think the white flight is just because of academic competition, and what isn’t being discussed is Asian flight. I think it has to also do with big-picture values. A lot of Asian immigrants want nothing to do with sports and are focused on school first and maybe ballet or an individual sport like gymnastics or swimming or tennis. Eventually if enough people demand that public schools are run a certain way, they will be. It’s a little different by the time a school is majority 1st generation and often very different by the 2nd. There are also different perspectives on what school should be like across generations and ethnic backgrounds, especially when it comes to homework, parent involvement, discipline, etc.

Where it gets really interesting are where 1st/2nd generation and immigrant families collide. We see this within our own family and in our area. There is a ton of cultural tension (but no public conflict) at school and at my daughter’s sports. The parents who are mandarin-speaking expats want very different things than the parents who are 2nd generation from Japan or HK and went to liberal arts colleges- which makes sense, because we are at different places in establishing ourselves. The next step is that more chill 1st + generation families like mine seek out different environments that are more in line with our values, and then the process repeats itself.

One thing to remember: depending on where you live in the US, there are many Asian families who were alive during incarceration during WWII, redlining, and anti-miscegenation laws. Others weren’t even allowed to immigrate to this country until the 60s, and then only if they were the very best and brightest. When your land and property have been seized by the government or you’re only allowed to immigrate here based on your intellectual capabilities, yes, you’re going to put a LOT of weight on academic achievement because it’s the only thing no one can take away.

I am Asian and agree with all of this, esp the part about immigrants vs 2ns generation.

I am 2nd gen asian with mixed race kids and I also agree with all the PP said. I will say though that I really respect the 1st gen values even if they are different from mine. I would not be who I am without 1st gen parents, and their contributions are essential for a great educational community.

[Anonymous]

This book shows how White families when Asian American families move in: https://www.amazon.com/Race-Top-Americans-American-Suburban/dp/022663681X. I heard the author speak last year and it was very interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent in a mixed Asian-white marriage, I can say that this is hardly news to anyone in “good” school districts. Many Asian parents place a very high value on living in a good school district and will do anything to move to a good one. Many “good” school districts are very white, because of the legacy of property taxes, redlining, and school segregation. They become less white if more Asian people join them.

On the flip side, yes, math suggests that if enough Asian people move to a formerly white school, it will become majority Asian. I don’t think the white flight is just because of academic competition, and what isn’t being discussed is Asian flight. I think it has to also do with big-picture values. A lot of Asian immigrants want nothing to do with sports and are focused on school first and maybe ballet or an individual sport like gymnastics or swimming or tennis. Eventually if enough people demand that public schools are run a certain way, they will be. It’s a little different by the time a school is majority 1st generation and often very different by the 2nd. There are also different perspectives on what school should be like across generations and ethnic backgrounds, especially when it comes to homework, parent involvement, discipline, etc.

Where it gets really interesting are where 1st/2nd generation and immigrant families collide. We see this within our own family and in our area. There is a ton of cultural tension (but no public conflict) at school and at my daughter’s sports. The parents who are mandarin-speaking expats want very different things than the parents who are 2nd generation from Japan or HK and went to liberal arts colleges- which makes sense, because we are at different places in establishing ourselves. The next step is that more chill 1st + generation families like mine seek out different environments that are more in line with our values, and then the process repeats itself.

One thing to remember: depending on where you live in the US, there are many Asian families who were alive during incarceration during WWII, redlining, and anti-miscegenation laws. Others weren’t even allowed to immigrate to this country until the 60s, and then only if they were the very best and brightest. When your land and property have been seized by the government or you’re only allowed to immigrate here based on your intellectual capabilities, yes, you’re going to put a LOT of weight on academic achievement because it’s the only thing no one can take away.

Agree with this! I am a 1st generation immigrant raised in a more relaxed 1st generation Asian household but raising my kids with somewhat different values. It's because my kids have more financial security than I did as a child, their path doesn't need to be so "straight and narrow." It means that a school that is a pure academic pressure cooker with a sole rigid focus on academics isn't the kind of peer environment I want for my children (or our social life).

[Anonymous]

Looks good to me. Bye, racists and xenophobes clinging to dwindling class privilege.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. Seems likely.

I know I did not want to buy in some of the very heavily Asian majority school zones out of concern for ending up in too much of a pressure cooker environment. And then after all that oldest DC opted for TJ… But at least that was a choice vs feeling like our home school was a mismatch in vibe for our family.

I don’t think you can point to another public high school in the DC region that is majority Asian besides TJ. There are a limited number that are plurality Asian but not majority, whereas there are quite a few high schools in the region that are majority White, Hispanic, or Black.

Check out these high schools in MCPS:
-Wootton HS 38% Asian, 36% white https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04234.pdf
-Poolesville: https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04152.pdf
-Clarksburg HS https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04249.pdf
-Northwest HS https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04246.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nber.org/papers/w31434

Spicy!

This paper studies white flight from Asian arrivals in high-socioeconomic-status Californian school districts from 2000-2016 using initial settlement patterns and national immigrant flows to instrument for entry. We find that, as Asian students arrive, white student enrollment declines in higher-income suburbs. These patterns cannot be fully explained by racial animus, housing prices, or correlations with Black/Hispanic arrivals. Parental fears of academic competition may play a role.

Unlike Blacks and Hispanics, Asians tend to clump together and are not inviting into their social circle. I'm from Cali and experienced this. Eventually all of the strip malls had Chinese writing on all of the store front signs. I could not read them and no, I have no interest in learning Chinese. It felt like I was living in China, which I would never want to even want to visit and I have traveled all over the world. So we left. It had nothing to do with academics. Most whites in areas like this area already well off, so they aren't necessarily relying on good grades and hard work for opportunities - our kids will have that anyway so we don't have the desperate "we have to make it here or else" mentality like the Asians do. It's just the feeling like my neighborhood started to feel like it wasn't America anymore and I didn't like that.