The White Lotus season 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's put Daphne and Cameron to bed and get back to discussing the frescoes, st lucia, the tarot reading, teste di moro, Mdm Butterfly, the Godfather, plunging cliff lady and Greg.

I'm down with discussing the frescoes. I admit I have not paid a huge amount of attention to the other things. I think my favorite is Lucia's - purrrfect:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know I will get flamed for this but I can’t understand this level of in-depth analysis about a second season TV show. Yes, it entertaining and clever in some aspects but I don’t even think the creator gave it this much thought.

Maybe it’s just me!?

People have created entire careers over this type of in-depth analysis.

Kind of off-topic, but if anyone remembers Fametracker and the Fametracker forums, Diablo Cody, Hollywood screenwriter, was a regular there. She wrote/sold the Juno screenplay while she was on Fametracker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know I will get flamed for this but I can’t understand this level of in-depth analysis about a second season TV show. Yes, it entertaining and clever in some aspects but I don’t even think the creator gave it this much thought.

Maybe it’s just me!?

People have created entire careers over this type of in-depth analysis.

Kind of off-topic, but if anyone remembers Fametracker and the Fametracker forums, Diablo Cody, Hollywood screenwriter, was a regular there. She wrote/sold the Juno screenplay while she was on Fametracker.

I remember Fametracker! I think I remember her posts. I also was a TWOP power user and have actual friendships with people who I met on those boards, including a couple of the writers, one of whom hooked me up with a job a few years back.

Thinking in depth about television shows and writing about it with other people online is something I've been doing since I was in college. Some people knit or take up golf or follow an English Premier League team. I do this. Not sorry, I like it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know I will get flamed for this but I can’t understand this level of in-depth analysis about a second season TV show. Yes, it entertaining and clever in some aspects but I don’t even think the creator gave it this much thought.

Maybe it’s just me!?

It's not just you.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I disagree it's that straightforward. Sure, maybe that will be Daphne... but what will happen to Cameron in that situation? If he's not a saver and he's broke, then if he divorces Daphne he will truly have nothing at all -- no gorgeous wife, no kids, no money. And if he doesn't have money, how does he get the rest back? If his power lies in his money, and he's broke, and he didn't save for a rainy day... Cameron is screwed. Daphne has a very winning personality and I think it's more likely she lands on her feet, likely with help from her parents.

And while I agree in general that Albie is likely to make it out of this situation unscathed, I do think Lucia has real power because she is reading Dom pretty well. I absolutely think she has plans to gently blackmail him for cash to bankroll her own dreams. Whether this backfires or not is up in the air -- blackmail is dangerous. But Lucia is using her position of transactional intimacy in order to collect information and access, and she is at least attempting to play it to her advantage. I do think she has some power, the question is whether it will be enough to overcome the power Dom has. Dom is rich but has a fatal flaw, which is his weakness for sex and women. He is vulnerable.

Similarly, Mia is using her charm and attractiveness to wheedle job opportunities. And she has real talent. Is this massive power? No, but she's going to work it for all she's got.

I think one point of this season is that there are more kinds of power than just money or being a man. Women DO have power. Smart, insightful people DO have power. It takes more work and creativity to wield it than just being a rich white guy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Seriously, WHERE are you getting this from? We know nothing about Daphne’s background. The notion that her parents will surely be able to help is based on NOTHING.

Her parents are the ones watching the kids while they're in Italy (Daphne mentions this in an early episode when she talks about talking to the kids before bed and how much she misses them), so her parents are in the picture and stable and with it enough to take care of a couple small kids for like 10 days? Two weeks?

In other words, I'm getting this from watching the show we're talking about.

The vacation is a week. Caring for two children for one week is quite different from taking on financial responsibility for a grown woman and two children. If Cameron goes broke and her parents aren't all that financially well off, she will be in a bad situation quite quickly and the rosy picture you're painting of her life seems unlikely. What skills and education does Daphne have? Did she ever work? Why don't you make up some more stuff about her backstory out of whole cloth, so that your little fantasy of her works out?

+1

It's extremely bizarre to me that people think this woman's life is aspirational or that she has a good relationship. And yes people have said those exact things in this thread.

To me, their relationship is a complete dumpster fire and she is a cautionary tale.

And, Harper isn't? Out of the two women, Harper seems way more miserable and dissatisfied in her sexless marriage with a husband that shows her zero affection and is always annoyed with her and beating off to p*rn.

Did I say anything about Harper? No. Their marriage is a mess too. But at least Harper doesn't have innocent kids in the mix and she has a job.

Exactly, Harper can easily leave the marriage and never deal with Ethan.

Daphne cannot, she is tethered to Cam forever via the kids, custody arrangements, child support whatever direction, etc.

If she comes for money she could get full custody and live off the interest of fixed income investments. All you need is $1M of rental or yield producing investments to throw off $100-200k a year to live on. It’s called wealth. So imagine the passive income if she has a $5-20m trust. The principal isn’t going anywhere, it’s growing, and the passive income can be swept out annually as needed or reinvested

omg now you've had daphne investing in rental properties?

do you see yourself in daphne - is this why you've constructed such specific, and off-book ways of making her life work out? i'm not asking that to be rude - but out of deep curiosity.

No, I don’t.

Only if that I’m married to an aspergers work addict spouse who ignores me and the kids entirely. He’d be hell to divorce and he unravels quickly when alone with the kids. They increasingly don’t get along as they have gotten older.

I am sorry you're dealing with that. Do you think you've cycled through a lot of scenarios where you leave your spouse and it works out, and now you do that for fictional characters, too? I'm not saying that we can't imagine what a divorced Daphne's life would look like - but it does seem just out of left field to imagine/posit she has the backstop of rich parents or a huge rental income investment. Where do those ideas come from?

No, you cycle through scenarios where the kids suffer but how much.
Anyhow I work in an industry with a lot of wealthy women, men and families and entrepreneurs. She has the confidence and looks of family money, manners, and EQ that also demands a prenup.

Actually, Tanya is a much more realistic portrayal of the wealthy--entitled and rude. And plenty of very wealthy people are not attractive at all. You've completely drunk the Kool-Aid that rich people are nice, smart, good-looking--everything positive. Why? You'll never sit at their table, so stop kowtowing to them, grateful for the breadcrumbs they throw you. It's so thirsty.

I run my family office and meet them all the time. The Tanya stereotype is rare in foundations and family offices, and unless she or her parents were idiots they have one too. They’re way beyond a private banker or wealth mgmt fee platform.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know I will get flamed for this but I can’t understand this level of in-depth analysis about a second season TV show. Yes, it entertaining and clever in some aspects but I don’t even think the creator gave it this much thought.

Maybe it’s just me!?

What is more strange:

1) Enjoying a television show and talking/speculating about it and the characters online between episodes.

2) Reading that talk/speculation and then popping in to post that you think this is too much thought to put into it.

Think on it, get back to us.

Reading it for 10 minutes obv not spending hours refreshing and contemplating

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know I will get flamed for this but I can’t understand this level of in-depth analysis about a second season TV show. Yes, it entertaining and clever in some aspects but I don’t even think the creator gave it this much thought.

Maybe it’s just me!?

People have created entire careers over this type of in-depth analysis.

Kind of off-topic, but if anyone remembers Fametracker and the Fametracker forums, Diablo Cody, Hollywood screenwriter, was a regular there. She wrote/sold the Juno screenplay while she was on Fametracker.

I've found my calling !!!! I can get paid for this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know I will get flamed for this but I can’t understand this level of in-depth analysis about a second season TV show. Yes, it entertaining and clever in some aspects but I don’t even think the creator gave it this much thought.

Maybe it’s just me!?

We are all bored. It's like book club online. And it takes everyone away from their own life problems for awhile (and work).

Well my husband won’t talk about anything, not even the 200 marvel movies he watches

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I disagree it's that straightforward. Sure, maybe that will be Daphne... but what will happen to Cameron in that situation? If he's not a saver and he's broke, then if he divorces Daphne he will truly have nothing at all -- no gorgeous wife, no kids, no money. And if he doesn't have money, how does he get the rest back? If his power lies in his money, and he's broke, and he didn't save for a rainy day... Cameron is screwed. Daphne has a very winning personality and I think it's more likely she lands on her feet, likely with help from her parents.

And while I agree in general that Albie is likely to make it out of this situation unscathed, I do think Lucia has real power because she is reading Dom pretty well. I absolutely think she has plans to gently blackmail him for cash to bankroll her own dreams. Whether this backfires or not is up in the air -- blackmail is dangerous. But Lucia is using her position of transactional intimacy in order to collect information and access, and she is at least attempting to play it to her advantage. I do think she has some power, the question is whether it will be enough to overcome the power Dom has. Dom is rich but has a fatal flaw, which is his weakness for sex and women. He is vulnerable.

Similarly, Mia is using her charm and attractiveness to wheedle job opportunities. And she has real talent. Is this massive power? No, but she's going to work it for all she's got.

I think one point of this season is that there are more kinds of power than just money or being a man. Women DO have power. Smart, insightful people DO have power. It takes more work and creativity to wield it than just being a rich white guy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Seriously, WHERE are you getting this from? We know nothing about Daphne’s background. The notion that her parents will surely be able to help is based on NOTHING.

Her parents are the ones watching the kids while they're in Italy (Daphne mentions this in an early episode when she talks about talking to the kids before bed and how much she misses them), so her parents are in the picture and stable and with it enough to take care of a couple small kids for like 10 days? Two weeks?

In other words, I'm getting this from watching the show we're talking about.

The vacation is a week. Caring for two children for one week is quite different from taking on financial responsibility for a grown woman and two children. If Cameron goes broke and her parents aren't all that financially well off, she will be in a bad situation quite quickly and the rosy picture you're painting of her life seems unlikely. What skills and education does Daphne have? Did she ever work? Why don't you make up some more stuff about her backstory out of whole cloth, so that your little fantasy of her works out?

+1

It's extremely bizarre to me that people think this woman's life is aspirational or that she has a good relationship. And yes people have said those exact things in this thread.

To me, their relationship is a complete dumpster fire and she is a cautionary tale.

And, Harper isn't? Out of the two women, Harper seems way more miserable and dissatisfied in her sexless marriage with a husband that shows her zero affection and is always annoyed with her and beating off to p*rn.

Did I say anything about Harper? No. Their marriage is a mess too. But at least Harper doesn't have innocent kids in the mix and she has a job.

Exactly, Harper can easily leave the marriage and never deal with Ethan.

Daphne cannot, she is tethered to Cam forever via the kids, custody arrangements, child support whatever direction, etc.

If she comes for money she could get full custody and live off the interest of fixed income investments. All you need is $1M of rental or yield producing investments to throw off $100-200k a year to live on. It’s called wealth. So imagine the passive income if she has a $5-20m trust. The principal isn’t going anywhere, it’s growing, and the passive income can be swept out annually as needed or reinvested

omg now you've had daphne investing in rental properties?

do you see yourself in daphne - is this why you've constructed such specific, and off-book ways of making her life work out? i'm not asking that to be rude - but out of deep curiosity.

No, I don’t.

Only if that I’m married to an aspergers work addict spouse who ignores me and the kids entirely. He’d be hell to divorce and he unravels quickly when alone with the kids. They increasingly don’t get along as they have gotten older.

I am sorry you're dealing with that. Do you think you've cycled through a lot of scenarios where you leave your spouse and it works out, and now you do that for fictional characters, too? I'm not saying that we can't imagine what a divorced Daphne's life would look like - but it does seem just out of left field to imagine/posit she has the backstop of rich parents or a huge rental income investment. Where do those ideas come from?

No, you cycle through scenarios where the kids suffer but how much.
Anyhow I work in an industry with a lot of wealthy women, men and families and entrepreneurs. She has the confidence and looks of family money, manners, and EQ that also demands a prenup.

Actually, Tanya is a much more realistic portrayal of the wealthy--entitled and rude. And plenty of very wealthy people are not attractive at all. You've completely drunk the Kool-Aid that rich people are nice, smart, good-looking--everything positive. Why? You'll never sit at their table, so stop kowtowing to them, grateful for the breadcrumbs they throw you. It's so thirsty.

I run my family office and meet them all the time. The Tanya stereotype is rare in foundations and family offices, and unless she or her parents were idiots they have one too. They’re way beyond a private banker or wealth mgmt fee platform.

Np
Met them at ugrad, b school and work. Most seemed quite motivated and intelligent and now 25 yrs out, quite successful with their own families and careers. Less divorces as well. Quite an international bunch too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really think that in every season of White Lotus there should be a nice middle aged couple that has good values and is well off but not super rich and makes good, decent choices and doesn’t kill anyone or take advantage of the help and has a really nice vacation. Just for contrast.

Still trying to catch up on the thread, sorry if this has been addressed, but I think that’s at least implied by some of the non-character guests in the background. Or at least, I *hope* it’s implied and White isn’t arguing that every person has the capacity to be so awful! The nice people would be wonderful in real life but probably boring as tv characters.

After the last episode, my husband said to me “I wouldn’t want to be at that hotel for anything.” I was confused because the area looks beautiful. But he clarified that he wouldn’t want to be any one of those characters, or part of those families, despite their wealth. Awkward dinners like the ones in this show are fun to watch but would be so depressing in real life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really think that in every season of White Lotus there should be a nice middle aged couple that has good values and is well off but not super rich and makes good, decent choices and doesn’t kill anyone or take advantage of the help and has a really nice vacation. Just for contrast.

Still trying to catch up on the thread, sorry if this has been addressed, but I think that’s at least implied by some of the non-character guests in the background. Or at least, I *hope* it’s implied and White isn’t arguing that every person has the capacity to be so awful! The nice people would be wonderful in real life but probably boring as tv characters.

After the last episode, my husband said to me “I wouldn’t want to be at that hotel for anything.” I was confused because the area looks beautiful. But he clarified that he wouldn’t want to be any one of those characters, or part of those families, despite their wealth. Awkward dinners like the ones in this show are fun to watch but would be so depressing in real life.

I don't know - is Theo James suggestively stroking my thigh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really think that in every season of White Lotus there should be a nice middle aged couple that has good values and is well off but not super rich and makes good, decent choices and doesn’t kill anyone or take advantage of the help and has a really nice vacation. Just for contrast.

Still trying to catch up on the thread, sorry if this has been addressed, but I think that’s at least implied by some of the non-character guests in the background. Or at least, I *hope* it’s implied and White isn’t arguing that every person has the capacity to be so awful! The nice people would be wonderful in real life but probably boring as tv characters.

After the last episode, my husband said to me “I wouldn’t want to be at that hotel for anything.” I was confused because the area looks beautiful. But he clarified that he wouldn’t want to be any one of those characters, or part of those families, despite their wealth. Awkward dinners like the ones in this show are fun to watch but would be so depressing in real life.

I don't know - is Theo James suggestively stroking my thigh?

Uh, I don't care that he looks like Theo James, Cameron has a major "consent is optional" vibe and no, I would not enjoy having my thigh stroked under the table by my husband's college roommate right after my husband has pointed out that the guy has a history of going after women after they express an interest in my DH.

I don't personally think Harper "likes" it either, just that she's in a very heightened state and looking to inflict damage, so views it as something that might be useful to her in that respect. She doesn't reciprocate or lean into it. She just lets it happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know I will get flamed for this but I can’t understand this level of in-depth analysis about a second season TV show. Yes, it entertaining and clever in some aspects but I don’t even think the creator gave it this much thought.

Maybe it’s just me!?

What is more strange:

1) Enjoying a television show and talking/speculating about it and the characters online between episodes.

2) Reading that talk/speculation and then popping in to post that you think this is too much thought to put into it.

Think on it, get back to us.

Reading it for 10 minutes obv not spending hours refreshing and contemplating

And yet look how quickly you were back to respond

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really think that in every season of White Lotus there should be a nice middle aged couple that has good values and is well off but not super rich and makes good, decent choices and doesn’t kill anyone or take advantage of the help and has a really nice vacation. Just for contrast.

Still trying to catch up on the thread, sorry if this has been addressed, but I think that’s at least implied by some of the non-character guests in the background. Or at least, I *hope* it’s implied and White isn’t arguing that every person has the capacity to be so awful! The nice people would be wonderful in real life but probably boring as tv characters.

After the last episode, my husband said to me “I wouldn’t want to be at that hotel for anything.” I was confused because the area looks beautiful. But he clarified that he wouldn’t want to be any one of those characters, or part of those families, despite their wealth. Awkward dinners like the ones in this show are fun to watch but would be so depressing in real life.

I don't know - is Theo James suggestively stroking my thigh?

Uh, I don't care that he looks like Theo James, Cameron has a major "consent is optional" vibe and no, I would not enjoy having my thigh stroked under the table by my husband's college roommate right after my husband has pointed out that the guy has a history of going after women after they express an interest in my DH.

I don't personally think Harper "likes" it either, just that she's in a very heightened state and looking to inflict damage, so views it as something that might be useful to her in that respect. She doesn't reciprocate or lean into it. She just lets it happen.

You are no fun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really think that in every season of White Lotus there should be a nice middle aged couple that has good values and is well off but not super rich and makes good, decent choices and doesn’t kill anyone or take advantage of the help and has a really nice vacation. Just for contrast.

Still trying to catch up on the thread, sorry if this has been addressed, but I think that’s at least implied by some of the non-character guests in the background. Or at least, I *hope* it’s implied and White isn’t arguing that every person has the capacity to be so awful! The nice people would be wonderful in real life but probably boring as tv characters.

After the last episode, my husband said to me “I wouldn’t want to be at that hotel for anything.” I was confused because the area looks beautiful. But he clarified that he wouldn’t want to be any one of those characters, or part of those families, despite their wealth. Awkward dinners like the ones in this show are fun to watch but would be so depressing in real life.

I don't know - is Theo James suggestively stroking my thigh?

Uh, I don't care that he looks like Theo James, Cameron has a major "consent is optional" vibe and no, I would not enjoy having my thigh stroked under the table by my husband's college roommate right after my husband has pointed out that the guy has a history of going after women after they express an interest in my DH.

I don't personally think Harper "likes" it either, just that she's in a very heightened state and looking to inflict damage, so views it as something that might be useful to her in that respect. She doesn't reciprocate or lean into it. She just lets it happen.

You are no fun.

Because I don't like rapey guys? Ok, I'm alright with that.