Have you experienced this sibling dynamic? If so, how did you handle?

[Anonymous]

My original post didn't survive the Friday crash, so am going to repost an abbreviated version today. Appreciate the folks who had posted insights on Friday.

A close friend's parents are now in their mid to late 70s and facing mental and physical health challenges. My friend is the youngest of three siblings - all in their mid to late 50s. She is long divorced and no children while the two older siblings have kids in the HS to college range. Her relationships with the two older siblings are fairly fraught. No one here, from the parents to the three adult kids, are remotely wealthy.

My friend is understandably upset with her parents' declines and trying to do the best she can (they are divorced and live in 2 different states) with her limited vacation time and resources. My guess is the two older sisters care, but probably not in the way my friend thinks they should be. Her frustration about it veers into anger at times when we are talking about it. Sounds like she emailed the two of them with a fairly heated message of "do something now or else" near the end of last week.

My siblings and I were fairly cooperative and generally figured out a way to help our parents and not unduly burden each other. I know folks IRL as well as have read posts in this forum of adult children with siblings who can go AWOL when the elder parent(s) need help. You can't make your siblings take action if they don't agree that that is what they want to do.

I'm torn on what, if any, role I have here. Right now I've just been listening and maybe that is all I should do. Some folks have come on this eldercare forum and vented, then said they just had to accept that "it is what it is." Do I share these insights with her? I am about ten years older, so I've had my own experiences as well as know how this has played out with friends and extended family. Even when money isn't tight, there can be conflict on how to help and support parents in this phase.

Appreciate any BTDTs replies as well as any other advice/suggestions folks have to offer.

[Anonymous]

Hi, OP. You know your friendship best, and how open you can be with your friend. I don't think any of us can advise you on this. However, my sibling and I share responsibility for our aging and poor parent. Luckily, we share responsibilities and agree on boundaries (very much needed) that we draw with this parent. I think the major issue here is that your friend can't understand the other commitments her sibling's have. She doesn't have a nuclear family, they do...and the financial, physical, and emotional well being of their nuclear family must come first. Everybody gets to make their own decisions and set their own boundaries...including your friend. It's not her place to try and force her siblings into action or to judge them.

[Anonymous]

Since you are in the role of a friend, I think your job is to let her vent and have all the negative feelings with you. It’s not your job (nor could you, really) to get her to reach acceptance of the situation. If she asks your advice, you can suggest that, or suggest that she could look into therapy to perhaps help her reach a more accepting place.

As it is, if she’s telling you her siblings suck, it’s so unfair, etc etc and you respond with, “well, it is what it is; just accept it” you will seem dismissive and uncaring.

[Anonymous]

You listen, and always work to see things from her side. Even when you might think "she's being unreasonable" or "she has a point but that's not how I would handle it." You just try to see it from her perspective and offer emotional support for wherever she is at.

It is important in a situation like this to maintain emotional distance from the actual problem. Do not get yourself involved in the sibling dynamics, don't spend a lot of time dwelling on how the other people in this scenario feel. You don't know them, you are getting a one-sided version of events, they have their own friends and support systems. Your only obligation is to your friend, and the actual dispute between siblings or family members isn't really your business.

But you support your friend's emotional state. If she needs to vent, let her (within reason, if you feel she's unloading on you and it's impacting your own emotional wellness, set reasonable limits around that). If she wants to think through some options, you can do that with her. But just remember, always -- you are a friend. Not a judge, a jury, a life coach, a family member, a therapist. Your role is pretty limited and the main goal should just be emotional support. Which, by the way, can also take the form of doing things and talking about things unrelated to her family issues. A friend can be a great distraction or help remind you of other, great aspects of your life outside of your family or career issues that might be preoccupying her.

You don't really even need to have an opinion on her family issues. It's her business. Just love and support your friend. Stick around. Crack some jokes, serve some tea, let her know you'll be around even if she's struggling with this stuff. That's it.

[Anonymous]

OP - Knowing your friend as you can try to help her use resources to keep her health mental and physical in balance. This might be seeing a therapist to help her develop a plan of parent support she can do. Also healthy outlets fir herself such as walking with you if local ir other peers, making time for things she just enjoys doing on her own or with others. She will need support in llearning to say “no” and to out limits on contact. In this scenario, I hope she can get her siblings together on figuring out how future decision-making can be shared in terms if POA and Health Directives as it should not just be on her.

[Anonymous]

OP your job is to encourage support groups and a therapist with background to deal with this and maybe an eldercare professional to help figure out what the mom needs and what it will cost to hire people to help mom out. She is at the point where it is beyond just having you listen. Sure, show empathy, but also let her know it sounds like a really tough situation where an expert on aging issues can help.

Your friend should never have yelled at her siblings. That accomplishes nothing and if anything can further drive a wedge, but not sure it would help to tell her that. If it's to the point she is yelling at siblings then it is beyond venting to you. You don't want to reinforce that behavior, but you don't want to throw her over the edge. It's a sign she needs help. She has to learn to figure out her own boundaries and she needs to accept things as they are and not try to control others. She can see what they are willing to do, but that is it. You work with the situation you have.

[Anonymous]

TY for all the people who've responded to date. I appreciate all these insights. It was already verging on a TLR post, so ended up cutting some points that may have provided more depth to my OP.

FWIW, I've done a fair amount of training in empathetic listening for various volunteer roles, so I would never say "it is what it is" - that's simply the conclusion I've drawn from reading this forum. Siblings/cousins/etc have varying perspectives on their responsibilities in these life phases. Some will come together and figure it out together. Some are willing to take direction from a sibling who may be predisposed to organize. Some put their phones on "do not disturb." One of the posters aptly summed up that "she needs to accept things as they are and not try to control others...you work with the situation you have."

That's why I wrote the post and indicated I was feeling a little stuck here in my role - my friend and I started out as colleagues where I hired her as an associate in our department and sometimes - not always - but sometimes I feel she still looks for my insights, even though we haven't worked together in boss-staff roles for nearly 30 years. At the same time, she is wrestling with some depression and despair in her life as things haven't worked out for her, especially personally, as she would have hoped. She is probably more professionally successful than her siblings, yet I think there is some envy also as they have families and she does not. I think her frustration is a mix of these emotions - fear and frustration that she may be on her own in supporting the parents combined with accruing resentment about her current status as a single, childless woman.

I'm just fretting that she is going to be so focused on her perspective on what is the right way here that she may push these fraying relationships into an irreparable place. Generally I know when to move from empathetic listening to sharing a perspective based on my experiences and can see how that has been helpful with some friends, including this one.

But right now everything feels so fraught, so I guess the best course of action is to listen and hope for the best. I would just hate for her to cut off both sisters right at the time that a united front may be more helpful for her mom and, possibly, for my friend over the long term.

Thanks again for suggestions here and welcome more.

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure if I can convey a tone accurately here the way I want, but I'm going to try. I'd like to suggest (gently, kindly, in a way that acknowledges your undoubtedly good intentions) that you seem pretty overly-invested/involved in this scenario.

The set of dynamics you're describing from what you know of this friend's family are complicated, deep, long-standing, and the kind of thing we all struggle to navigate in our families. Complicated sibling dynamics, aging parents, a history of challenges with depression, financial stress, etc... - that's a lot. That is an awful lot. And none of that is yours in this scenario. That is what's on the plate of your friend.

You probably know from your volunteer work and training that you can't fix these kinds of things for someone else. It's hard enough to deal w/ one's own struggles like this, but if you are trying to figure out how to solve someone else's you're already behind the 8 ball.

And with a history of this friend turning to you for some sort of guidance or leadership, it's playing into your kind instincts and what I bet is a generally very nurturing nature.

I would argue that boundaries are really important for you, and in the long run, those same boundaries will be good for your friend.

You can listen, you can empathize, you can offer your advice if it is sought and if you wish to, but I really think you need to pull back from your current level of engagement. I think you feel stuck because you're outside your lane (to use management speak).

You're just a friend. That's it. Stay in that limited capacity. Your friend has to find her way through this herself, and with her family (or not) - you're just truly outside those circles - appropriately. So let that allow you to step back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure if I can convey a tone accurately here the way I want, but I'm going to try. I'd like to suggest (gently, kindly, in a way that acknowledges your undoubtedly good intentions) that you seem pretty overly-invested/involved in this scenario.

The set of dynamics you're describing from what you know of this friend's family are complicated, deep, long-standing, and the kind of thing we all struggle to navigate in our families. Complicated sibling dynamics, aging parents, a history of challenges with depression, financial stress, etc... - that's a lot. That is an awful lot. And none of that is yours in this scenario. That is what's on the plate of your friend.

You probably know from your volunteer work and training that you can't fix these kinds of things for someone else. It's hard enough to deal w/ one's own struggles like this, but if you are trying to figure out how to solve someone else's you're already behind the 8 ball.

And with a history of this friend turning to you for some sort of guidance or leadership, it's playing into your kind instincts and what I bet is a generally very nurturing nature.

I would argue that boundaries are really important for you, and in the long run, those same boundaries will be good for your friend.

You can listen, you can empathize, you can offer your advice if it is sought and if you wish to, but I really think you need to pull back from your current level of engagement. I think you feel stuck because you're outside your lane (to use management speak).

You're just a friend. That's it. Stay in that limited capacity. Your friend has to find her way through this herself, and with her family (or not) - you're just truly outside those circles - appropriately. So let that allow you to step back.

Thanks for seeking a deft way to convey. I'll take another stab at describing the dynamic and maybe how this has gotten more complicated, at least in my mind. We started as boss/subordinate and morphed into mentor/mentee, even long after I left that organization. And I mean long. In some ways, we've both been probably trying to recalibrate more as friends for awhile. And there was a long period when she was estranged from her mother and I was pretty much the only constant in her life, especially as she went through some real hardships.

Our financial lives were also pretty similar as we were in the same work world, just separated by age and tenure. That took a turn for me over 20 years ago when I moved fields and DH's career really took off. We both had grown up working class, though in very different ways. I never have to worry about money now and I try to be generous when possible - covering dinner, Uber, etc. I know she knows we have money, but I'm not sure she really has a sense of just how much. This may not mean much if you grew up with money as DH did - it's just different.

And TBH, I've pulled back over the last few years or so. Pandemic probably playing some of a role as well as our kids graduating, then leaving for college over the last two years. I was pretty busy and not available in ways I had usually been. She was understanding and also expressed some frustration and hurt in the fall about it.

In some ways, I think she has treated me as the older sister she wanted/needed and is now doing similarly.

I know the mom a bit well and one of the older sisters to some extent - our kids' ages overlap.

So our lives have been enmeshed to some extent for a couple of decades.

I get what you are saying and thanks again for your thoughtfulness. I probably should just continue to respond with empathy as I have been doing to date. I do worry that her frustration/anger could all just blow up and be hard for the parents as well as my friend (and her future relationship with her siblings) at a super difficult time.

In some ways, I just don't have a lot more bandwidth for her depression/despair and I feel terrible writing that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure if I can convey a tone accurately here the way I want, but I'm going to try. I'd like to suggest (gently, kindly, in a way that acknowledges your undoubtedly good intentions) that you seem pretty overly-invested/involved in this scenario.

The set of dynamics you're describing from what you know of this friend's family are complicated, deep, long-standing, and the kind of thing we all struggle to navigate in our families. Complicated sibling dynamics, aging parents, a history of challenges with depression, financial stress, etc... - that's a lot. That is an awful lot. And none of that is yours in this scenario. That is what's on the plate of your friend.

You probably know from your volunteer work and training that you can't fix these kinds of things for someone else. It's hard enough to deal w/ one's own struggles like this, but if you are trying to figure out how to solve someone else's you're already behind the 8 ball.

And with a history of this friend turning to you for some sort of guidance or leadership, it's playing into your kind instincts and what I bet is a generally very nurturing nature.

I would argue that boundaries are really important for you, and in the long run, those same boundaries will be good for your friend.

You can listen, you can empathize, you can offer your advice if it is sought and if you wish to, but I really think you need to pull back from your current level of engagement. I think you feel stuck because you're outside your lane (to use management speak).

You're just a friend. That's it. Stay in that limited capacity. Your friend has to find her way through this herself, and with her family (or not) - you're just truly outside those circles - appropriately. So let that allow you to step back.

Thanks for seeking a deft way to convey. I'll take another stab at describing the dynamic and maybe how this has gotten more complicated, at least in my mind. We started as boss/subordinate and morphed into mentor/mentee, even long after I left that organization. And I mean long. In some ways, we've both been probably trying to recalibrate more as friends for awhile. And there was a long period when she was estranged from her mother and I was pretty much the only constant in her life, especially as she went through some real hardships.

Our financial lives were also pretty similar as we were in the same work world, just separated by age and tenure. That took a turn for me over 20 years ago when I moved fields and DH's career really took off. We both had grown up working class, though in very different ways. I never have to worry about money now and I try to be generous when possible - covering dinner, Uber, etc. I know she knows we have money, but I'm not sure she really has a sense of just how much. This may not mean much if you grew up with money as DH did - it's just different.

And TBH, I've pulled back over the last few years or so. Pandemic probably playing some of a role as well as our kids graduating, then leaving for college over the last two years. I was pretty busy and not available in ways I had usually been. She was understanding and also expressed some frustration and hurt in the fall about it.

In some ways, I think she has treated me as the older sister she wanted/needed and is now doing similarly.

I know the mom a bit well and one of the older sisters to some extent - our kids' ages overlap.

So our lives have been enmeshed to some extent for a couple of decades.

I get what you are saying and thanks again for your thoughtfulness. I probably should just continue to respond with empathy as I have been doing to date. I do worry that her frustration/anger could all just blow up and be hard for the parents as well as my friend (and her future relationship with her siblings) at a super difficult time.

In some ways, I just don't have a lot more bandwidth for her depression/despair and I feel terrible writing that.

PP back again. Glad nothing I said offended you. And yes - I think you're spot on that you shut just respond w/ kindness and care for her. Not empathy really - that's what will suck the energy from you. But kindness for her, and a genuine hope that things will go well. Everything else, really and truly everything else is outside the boundaries of a friendship that is healthy for you. Everything else is entanglement - and not even in a way that is being requested - you're volunteering emotionally for that entanglement. If you had a crisis happening in your family you wouldn't have the bandwidth for this level of concern for her and her family, and for imagining potentially bad future scenarios, etc. So don't volunteer for burdens that aren't yours to carry.