The White Lotus season 2

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand people who stan Daphne. Her marriage is a horrible shit show. Getting knocked up by your trainer and passing it off as your husband’s is not some cool power play. If she ever gets found out, she’d ruin that kid’s life.

OMG is that why she showed Harper the picture of the kids rather than the trainer?

I don’t think so. She talked about the trainer to make herself out as not being a victim. She may or may not have a trainer she sleeps with, but at the end of the day, it’s her kids who give her the motivation to get over whatever Cameron does and not focus on it.

Eh, she says my trainer has blond hair and blue eyes, want to see a picture? Then shows a picture of a blond haired kid. Cameron has brown hair. Google it.

https://www.today.com/popculture/tv/white-lotus-season-2-daphne-trainer-kids-theory-rcna59147

She’s calling the kid her trainer. She’s making some innuendo about her life, that she’s not a victim because she can do whatever Cameron is doing and have sex with whomever she wants. She makes that point to Harper. Then when she shows her the picture, it’s her kids- the point is that she doesn’t want to cheat, that’s not what actually makes her feel better about it. She just wants her happy, very comfortable life with her kids and her husband. People are reading way into this. Her trainer did not father her children.

Also, even if Cameron had brown eyes, hasn’t anyone ever heard of recessive genes? My dad has blue eyes and my mom has brown. I’m one of four kids and only one of us have brown eyes. The rest of us have blue and green.

I think you and I are the only ones that see this in this thread. I tack it up to personal life experience and age. Sigh.

The scene is purposefully ambiguous. They had her go on and on about this adorable trainer with blonde hair and blue eyes, two recessive genes. And then show a photo of a blonde haired blue eyed kid. I'm not SURE the trainer is the dad, but the show is clearly leaving the ambiguity there, putting the question out there. This is a show where all the background choices are dripping in meaning. There is a photo of St. Lucia in one of the rooms.

GOOD LORD!! Daphne has light hair and blue eyes. Cameron only has to carry the recessive gene for blue eyes and they can definitely have blonde hair and blue-eyed kids.

I'm a brunette woman with two teenage blonde blue-eyed sons that definitely came from me. My husband is blonde. A blonde/red-head and a brunette can definitely make a blonde kid---and many of these kids are blonde as kids that turn darker as they get older.

People assume dark hair is dominant, but my sister also has two blonde kids and one brunette and her hair is jet black. Her husband is a blonde.

Yeah that is why I said it is AMBIGUOUS. Do you know what the word ambiguous means? The show is basically swimming in ambiguity but when they want something to be clear they do show it (ie we know Ethan did not cheat on Harper that night with Cameron).

I'm not saying the kids aren't Cameron's, I'm saying the scene is ambiguous. Are you also the poster that thinks the only way people can love each other is sunshine and rainbows and happiness and Daphne is just some poor lovestuck lady crying herself to sleep every night?

No. I'm the person saying Cameron and Daphne love each other--even with his flaws and infidelity.

Well then we agree on that! But I honestly don't see how anyone could not at least acknowledge that the scene was intentionally ambiguous. It was a pivotal scene where Daphne was being vague. It could mean anything.

BUT I don't think it has any bearing on the deaths for two reasons.

1) The whole point Daphne is making is, IMO, immaterial to whether she is having an affair or whether she gets her purpose from her kids. Her point is that she sees Cameron for who he is and instead of letting it ruin her, she does what she wants and lives how she wants and copes with this unhappiness by getting fulfillment elsewhere. It isn't important who the father is or if there is or isn't a trainer. Her point is that she finds a way, and Harper can find a way too, and that they, as women, shouldn't depend on imperfect men to determine their lives and happiness.

2) I don't think the conflict that results in a death will be between Daphne and Cameron. They have both decided that they can handle their demons and suppress their unhappiness to be together. Neither has unresolved anger towards each other. It is processed accepted and dealt with. Unlike say Harper and Ethan who have an elephant of tension standing in the room with them. Cameron and Daphne don't have that. I think the only thing that could send them over the edge is Cameron being broke, but I honestly still think she would likely just join him in trying to pull a scam rather than walk away. Daphne has coping mechanisms and uses them. I think she's capable of murder honestly, but I don't think she has any desire to murder him

I don't think we know if they can both handle their demons. We don't know if Cameron thinks or knows that Daphne has a "trainer" - we don't know if she knew he was regularly cheating on her, not just that one time, and is doing it in such a flagrant and humiliating way. I don't care how tolerant you are, your spouse hiring two hookers, having a threesome in them in your room, and then not even having the money to pay them so they have to chase you like that guy from Better Off Dead trying to get his two dollars, is humiliating and terrible.

Honestly, the fact that he couldn't pay the two hookers he hired was worse to me than hiring them in the first place. It's theft of services. Cameron is so awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ethan is a really interesting character to me. It's hard to tell what his real personality is - he was obviously a totally different guy with Harper during their early marriage and courtship than he was with Cameron in college. It seems like he didn't have strong personality of his own, and turned into whoever the people around him wanted him to be. But now with all this money he doesn't have to go along to get along - who will he turn into?

Was he? I feel like he's always been kind of a nerd and that he and Harper are both trying to navigate their new identity as wealthy people, but that it's so new they don't really know how. I mentioned Harper's wardrobe in a previous post. I find it to be very "old" for her, like she went to an expensive clothing store where she thought she should shop and the 60 year old stylist picked out clothes she thought looked young.

It is very clear to me that Ethan and Cameron have fallen back into a very familiar pattern and that Ethan is now remembering how much he actually hated that dynamic. Which is why he makes that mimetic desire speech and insults Cameron.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I disagree it's that straightforward. Sure, maybe that will be Daphne... but what will happen to Cameron in that situation? If he's not a saver and he's broke, then if he divorces Daphne he will truly have nothing at all -- no gorgeous wife, no kids, no money. And if he doesn't have money, how does he get the rest back? If his power lies in his money, and he's broke, and he didn't save for a rainy day... Cameron is screwed. Daphne has a very winning personality and I think it's more likely she lands on her feet, likely with help from her parents.

And while I agree in general that Albie is likely to make it out of this situation unscathed, I do think Lucia has real power because she is reading Dom pretty well. I absolutely think she has plans to gently blackmail him for cash to bankroll her own dreams. Whether this backfires or not is up in the air -- blackmail is dangerous. But Lucia is using her position of transactional intimacy in order to collect information and access, and she is at least attempting to play it to her advantage. I do think she has some power, the question is whether it will be enough to overcome the power Dom has. Dom is rich but has a fatal flaw, which is his weakness for sex and women. He is vulnerable.

Similarly, Mia is using her charm and attractiveness to wheedle job opportunities. And she has real talent. Is this massive power? No, but she's going to work it for all she's got.

I think one point of this season is that there are more kinds of power than just money or being a man. Women DO have power. Smart, insightful people DO have power. It takes more work and creativity to wield it than just being a rich white guy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Seriously, WHERE are you getting this from? We know nothing about Daphne’s background. The notion that her parents will surely be able to help is based on NOTHING.

Her parents are the ones watching the kids while they're in Italy (Daphne mentions this in an early episode when she talks about talking to the kids before bed and how much she misses them), so her parents are in the picture and stable and with it enough to take care of a couple small kids for like 10 days? Two weeks?

In other words, I'm getting this from watching the show we're talking about.

The vacation is a week. Caring for two children for one week is quite different from taking on financial responsibility for a grown woman and two children. If Cameron goes broke and her parents aren't all that financially well off, she will be in a bad situation quite quickly and the rosy picture you're painting of her life seems unlikely. What skills and education does Daphne have? Did she ever work? Why don't you make up some more stuff about her backstory out of whole cloth, so that your little fantasy of her works out?

+1

It's extremely bizarre to me that people think this woman's life is aspirational or that she has a good relationship. And yes people have said those exact things in this thread.

To me, their relationship is a complete dumpster fire and she is a cautionary tale.

... you start understanding a lot of the weird advice in the relationships forum

There are so many Harpers over on that board. The amount of women who claim they are sexless and can’t get their husbands interested in having sex with them is like every other post over there. They all fantasize about cheating/divorcing and write how much they hate their husbands who they describe very much like Ethan (without the wealth).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I disagree it's that straightforward. Sure, maybe that will be Daphne... but what will happen to Cameron in that situation? If he's not a saver and he's broke, then if he divorces Daphne he will truly have nothing at all -- no gorgeous wife, no kids, no money. And if he doesn't have money, how does he get the rest back? If his power lies in his money, and he's broke, and he didn't save for a rainy day... Cameron is screwed. Daphne has a very winning personality and I think it's more likely she lands on her feet, likely with help from her parents.

And while I agree in general that Albie is likely to make it out of this situation unscathed, I do think Lucia has real power because she is reading Dom pretty well. I absolutely think she has plans to gently blackmail him for cash to bankroll her own dreams. Whether this backfires or not is up in the air -- blackmail is dangerous. But Lucia is using her position of transactional intimacy in order to collect information and access, and she is at least attempting to play it to her advantage. I do think she has some power, the question is whether it will be enough to overcome the power Dom has. Dom is rich but has a fatal flaw, which is his weakness for sex and women. He is vulnerable.

Similarly, Mia is using her charm and attractiveness to wheedle job opportunities. And she has real talent. Is this massive power? No, but she's going to work it for all she's got.

I think one point of this season is that there are more kinds of power than just money or being a man. Women DO have power. Smart, insightful people DO have power. It takes more work and creativity to wield it than just being a rich white guy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Seriously, WHERE are you getting this from? We know nothing about Daphne’s background. The notion that her parents will surely be able to help is based on NOTHING.

Her parents are the ones watching the kids while they're in Italy (Daphne mentions this in an early episode when she talks about talking to the kids before bed and how much she misses them), so her parents are in the picture and stable and with it enough to take care of a couple small kids for like 10 days? Two weeks?

In other words, I'm getting this from watching the show we're talking about.

The vacation is a week. Caring for two children for one week is quite different from taking on financial responsibility for a grown woman and two children. If Cameron goes broke and her parents aren't all that financially well off, she will be in a bad situation quite quickly and the rosy picture you're painting of her life seems unlikely. What skills and education does Daphne have? Did she ever work? Why don't you make up some more stuff about her backstory out of whole cloth, so that your little fantasy of her works out?

Hi. Calm the eff down. It is a television show, I am speculating about a fictional character for fun and because it is interesting. The whole point is that you can read what you want into things and there are no "right" answers. I disagreed with your assertion that Daphne would be screwed without Cameron -- my impression of her character is that she is resourceful and has better interpersonal skills that Cameron, and seems to have a good relationship with her parents from what we've seen. Cameron seems like an a$$hole who burns bridges, treats even those closest to him like dirt, and gets caught up in toxic pissing matches to a point of self-destruction. So yes, my money is on Daphne having more resilience than Cameron.

You are welcome to have a different take, and welcome to share it here. But berating people for "making up" stuff about FICTIONAL CHARACTERS, like there's some rule you can't speculate about the imaginary backgrounds about imaginary people, is ridiculous. Grow up.

Hi. I'm calm. I just think your speculations are specious. Grow up? I'm not the one playing make believe here.

We're all "playing make believe." It's a fictional show. No one can be totally wrong about these characters' backgrounds, motivations, or futures because those things aren't real and never will be. Everything in this thread is an interpretation of the "text" -- the dialogue and the portrayals by the actors and the way the show is edited and shot. One person can have a "rosy picture" of a character and another can see something deeply sinister or sad, and neither are right or wrong. It's all just interpretation and opinion.

You can disagree with someone's interpretation but you can't accuse them of being wrong. There is no right/wrong in this game. It's all make believe, though we can draw what we believe to be truth from the make believe.

There's just no evidence that Daphne comes from a rich background or has a trust fund.

Disagree there is no evidence that Daphne comes from money. For me, she has a very strong vibe of someone who has never really had to worry about money before, who is very comfortable around wealth and spending money, and has that air of total detachment from the workaday world that people usually only get if they have never really had to work for a living. I definitely get the sense that she is from, if not wealth, a UMC background. She reminds me of women I have known who grew up the favorite daughter of doctors or lawyers in midwestern cities where that money goes a long way. Very nice public schools if not private schools (usually Catholic but sometimes not), college paid for at a place like Vassar, Notre Dame, a Seven Sister, Baird, maybe Reed if they are crunchy. Maybe grad school (a masters or law school, not med school even if they have a doctor for a parent because med school is hard and long and a huge commitment and these women are used to a softer life). Then a brief professional career in a city like NY, Boston, DC, SF, LA, Chicago, Houston, Miami, or Atlanta. Ideally a city where there are a good number of young men working in finance, law, consulting, or on a corporate ladder. The goal is to marry one of those, have a couple kids, get the big house and the nice vacations to exclusive resorts with first class airfare. They have carefully curated IG feeds that go from world travels with their hot, successful boyfriend/fiance, to world travels with their new family of three or four. They are "foodies" (#michlinstar), they all have at least one hobby that is really an excuse to exercise to stay hot and also get out aggression. Preferably as part of an exercise cult -- they don't do yoga at home or just hit the gym alone, they are SolidCore devotees or they talk about their trainer all the time (ahem) or they've taken up something nice like aerial silks or pole dancing, which they feel makes them more interesting and distinguishes themselves from the other rich finance/law/consultant wives. They might pretend to care about politics or feminism, but these things have no real bearing on their lives, so it's always a feint. They've never really had to worry about that stuff. They are throwbacks -- they went from daddy's bankroll to their husband's. They are like housecats. They can be smart, insightful, resourceful (sometimes scarily so), but they are also pretty useless and rely on others for every aspect of their care and feeding.

Yes, I think Daphne comes from money of some kind. She's not some plucky working class kid who lucked into marrying a rich finance bro. Those guys don't date Cinderellas, sorry.

There's a lot in between "comes from money" and plucky working class kid. The above describes the background of about 75-80% of the women I grew up or went to college with. I can think of one of them that actually comes from money. The rest of your post describes some women I am sure, but it a whole lot of projection.

The point is that the women you know like this, if they got divorced from wealthy and cheating husbands, would they be destitute or would they be welcomed home and helped back on their feet? It's the latter.

I think it's very unlikely Daphne would be destitute if she and Cameron broke up. And the reason I think this is relevant is not because I love Daphne (I actively dislike many aspects of her personality, actually), but because I think if it turns out that Cameron is broke (which signs indicate he might be), Daphne would dump his a$$ in a hot minute because I think she has options and she does not need to hang around to get pulled down with a sinking ship. She's beautiful, seems to have some kind of family support, and she's reasonably savvy about the world. She's made her deal with Cameron because she has real affection for him and because he enables a certain lifestyle for her and her kids. If Cameron can no longer provide that, what would be the point of staying with him. Because she "loves" him? Sorry, but like 70% of that love is simply appreciation for what he offers her.

This began as a debate over who has the most power in Cameron and Daphne's relationship. And I remain firmly of the belief that Daphne has more power and more options because she has more to offer than just "being rich". Whereas Cameron's value as a person is very dependent on him having not just money, but A LOT of money. If he, say, over leveraged himself on some investments that went south, or go swindled by one of his unethical fellow finance bros, he is screwed because Daphne will leave him and his value to other prospective partners depends on his money.

Look at his interactions with Lucia. She was game when she thought he'd be bankrolling the night and she has ZERO patience with him now that he's trying to stiff her. Unlike her thing with Albie, she doesn't like Cameron and is not remotely charmed by him. He was a paying customer, that's it. I think Daphne would have a fairly similar shift in demeanor if Cameron turned off the money spigot, and I think Cameron knows that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ethan is a really interesting character to me. It's hard to tell what his real personality is - he was obviously a totally different guy with Harper during their early marriage and courtship than he was with Cameron in college. It seems like he didn't have strong personality of his own, and turned into whoever the people around him wanted him to be. But now with all this money he doesn't have to go along to get along - who will he turn into?

Was he? I feel like he's always been kind of a nerd and that he and Harper are both trying to navigate their new identity as wealthy people, but that it's so new they don't really know how. I mentioned Harper's wardrobe in a previous post. I find it to be very "old" for her, like she went to an expensive clothing store where she thought she should shop and the 60 year old stylist picked out clothes she thought looked young.

It is very clear to me that Ethan and Cameron have fallen back into a very familiar pattern and that Ethan is now remembering how much he actually hated that dynamic. Which is why he makes that mimetic desire speech and insults Cameron.

Sure, he's always been a nerd, but the person Harper thinks she married would not have wanted to be friends with a douchey bro like Cameron. Ethan was not only friends with him, he wanted to be friends with him badly enough that he put up with all kinds of bad treatment from him. The Ethan who married Harper is much more self-serious, political, etc....like Harper. But who is the new Ethan going to be?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I disagree it's that straightforward. Sure, maybe that will be Daphne... but what will happen to Cameron in that situation? If he's not a saver and he's broke, then if he divorces Daphne he will truly have nothing at all -- no gorgeous wife, no kids, no money. And if he doesn't have money, how does he get the rest back? If his power lies in his money, and he's broke, and he didn't save for a rainy day... Cameron is screwed. Daphne has a very winning personality and I think it's more likely she lands on her feet, likely with help from her parents.

And while I agree in general that Albie is likely to make it out of this situation unscathed, I do think Lucia has real power because she is reading Dom pretty well. I absolutely think she has plans to gently blackmail him for cash to bankroll her own dreams. Whether this backfires or not is up in the air -- blackmail is dangerous. But Lucia is using her position of transactional intimacy in order to collect information and access, and she is at least attempting to play it to her advantage. I do think she has some power, the question is whether it will be enough to overcome the power Dom has. Dom is rich but has a fatal flaw, which is his weakness for sex and women. He is vulnerable.

Similarly, Mia is using her charm and attractiveness to wheedle job opportunities. And she has real talent. Is this massive power? No, but she's going to work it for all she's got.

I think one point of this season is that there are more kinds of power than just money or being a man. Women DO have power. Smart, insightful people DO have power. It takes more work and creativity to wield it than just being a rich white guy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Seriously, WHERE are you getting this from? We know nothing about Daphne’s background. The notion that her parents will surely be able to help is based on NOTHING.

Her parents are the ones watching the kids while they're in Italy (Daphne mentions this in an early episode when she talks about talking to the kids before bed and how much she misses them), so her parents are in the picture and stable and with it enough to take care of a couple small kids for like 10 days? Two weeks?

In other words, I'm getting this from watching the show we're talking about.

The vacation is a week. Caring for two children for one week is quite different from taking on financial responsibility for a grown woman and two children. If Cameron goes broke and her parents aren't all that financially well off, she will be in a bad situation quite quickly and the rosy picture you're painting of her life seems unlikely. What skills and education does Daphne have? Did she ever work? Why don't you make up some more stuff about her backstory out of whole cloth, so that your little fantasy of her works out?

Hi. Calm the eff down. It is a television show, I am speculating about a fictional character for fun and because it is interesting. The whole point is that you can read what you want into things and there are no "right" answers. I disagreed with your assertion that Daphne would be screwed without Cameron -- my impression of her character is that she is resourceful and has better interpersonal skills that Cameron, and seems to have a good relationship with her parents from what we've seen. Cameron seems like an a$$hole who burns bridges, treats even those closest to him like dirt, and gets caught up in toxic pissing matches to a point of self-destruction. So yes, my money is on Daphne having more resilience than Cameron.

You are welcome to have a different take, and welcome to share it here. But berating people for "making up" stuff about FICTIONAL CHARACTERS, like there's some rule you can't speculate about the imaginary backgrounds about imaginary people, is ridiculous. Grow up.

Hi. I'm calm. I just think your speculations are specious. Grow up? I'm not the one playing make believe here.

We're all "playing make believe." It's a fictional show. No one can be totally wrong about these characters' backgrounds, motivations, or futures because those things aren't real and never will be. Everything in this thread is an interpretation of the "text" -- the dialogue and the portrayals by the actors and the way the show is edited and shot. One person can have a "rosy picture" of a character and another can see something deeply sinister or sad, and neither are right or wrong. It's all just interpretation and opinion.

You can disagree with someone's interpretation but you can't accuse them of being wrong. There is no right/wrong in this game. It's all make believe, though we can draw what we believe to be truth from the make believe.

There's just no evidence that Daphne comes from a rich background or has a trust fund.

Disagree there is no evidence that Daphne comes from money. For me, she has a very strong vibe of someone who has never really had to worry about money before, who is very comfortable around wealth and spending money, and has that air of total detachment from the workaday world that people usually only get if they have never really had to work for a living. I definitely get the sense that she is from, if not wealth, a UMC background. She reminds me of women I have known who grew up the favorite daughter of doctors or lawyers in midwestern cities where that money goes a long way. Very nice public schools if not private schools (usually Catholic but sometimes not), college paid for at a place like Vassar, Notre Dame, a Seven Sister, Baird, maybe Reed if they are crunchy. Maybe grad school (a masters or law school, not med school even if they have a doctor for a parent because med school is hard and long and a huge commitment and these women are used to a softer life). Then a brief professional career in a city like NY, Boston, DC, SF, LA, Chicago, Houston, Miami, or Atlanta. Ideally a city where there are a good number of young men working in finance, law, consulting, or on a corporate ladder. The goal is to marry one of those, have a couple kids, get the big house and the nice vacations to exclusive resorts with first class airfare. They have carefully curated IG feeds that go from world travels with their hot, successful boyfriend/fiance, to world travels with their new family of three or four. They are "foodies" (#michlinstar), they all have at least one hobby that is really an excuse to exercise to stay hot and also get out aggression. Preferably as part of an exercise cult -- they don't do yoga at home or just hit the gym alone, they are SolidCore devotees or they talk about their trainer all the time (ahem) or they've taken up something nice like aerial silks or pole dancing, which they feel makes them more interesting and distinguishes themselves from the other rich finance/law/consultant wives. They might pretend to care about politics or feminism, but these things have no real bearing on their lives, so it's always a feint. They've never really had to worry about that stuff. They are throwbacks -- they went from daddy's bankroll to their husband's. They are like housecats. They can be smart, insightful, resourceful (sometimes scarily so), but they are also pretty useless and rely on others for every aspect of their care and feeding.

Yes, I think Daphne comes from money of some kind. She's not some plucky working class kid who lucked into marrying a rich finance bro. Those guys don't date Cinderellas, sorry.

There's a lot in between "comes from money" and plucky working class kid. The above describes the background of about 75-80% of the women I grew up or went to college with. I can think of one of them that actually comes from money. The rest of your post describes some women I am sure, but it a whole lot of projection.

The point is that the women you know like this, if they got divorced from wealthy and cheating husbands, would they be destitute or would they be welcomed home and helped back on their feet? It's the latter.

I think it's very unlikely Daphne would be destitute if she and Cameron broke up. And the reason I think this is relevant is not because I love Daphne (I actively dislike many aspects of her personality, actually), but because I think if it turns out that Cameron is broke (which signs indicate he might be), Daphne would dump his a$$ in a hot minute because I think she has options and she does not need to hang around to get pulled down with a sinking ship. She's beautiful, seems to have some kind of family support, and she's reasonably savvy about the world. She's made her deal with Cameron because she has real affection for him and because he enables a certain lifestyle for her and her kids. If Cameron can no longer provide that, what would be the point of staying with him. Because she "loves" him? Sorry, but like 70% of that love is simply appreciation for what he offers her.

This began as a debate over who has the most power in Cameron and Daphne's relationship. And I remain firmly of the belief that Daphne has more power and more options because she has more to offer than just "being rich". Whereas Cameron's value as a person is very dependent on him having not just money, but A LOT of money. If he, say, over leveraged himself on some investments that went south, or go swindled by one of his unethical fellow finance bros, he is screwed because Daphne will leave him and his value to other prospective partners depends on his money.

Look at his interactions with Lucia. She was game when she thought he'd be bankrolling the night and she has ZERO patience with him now that he's trying to stiff her. Unlike her thing with Albie, she doesn't like Cameron and is not remotely charmed by him. He was a paying customer, that's it. I think Daphne would have a fairly similar shift in demeanor if Cameron turned off the money spigot, and I think Cameron knows that.

PP, how can you be sure Daphne even knows who/where Cameron is? Is it possible she's just imagining the whole thing? Sort of red pill-green pill-no pill puzzler in her own mind? Someone else saying hArpers and Ethan are the same person, which I don't agree with but have to admit is an interesting theory. Thoughts?

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Anonymous wrote:Ethan is a really interesting character to me. It's hard to tell what his real personality is - he was obviously a totally different guy with Harper during their early marriage and courtship than he was with Cameron in college. It seems like he didn't have strong personality of his own, and turned into whoever the people around him wanted him to be. But now with all this money he doesn't have to go along to get along - who will he turn into?

Was he? I feel like he's always been kind of a nerd and that he and Harper are both trying to navigate their new identity as wealthy people, but that it's so new they don't really know how. I mentioned Harper's wardrobe in a previous post. I find it to be very "old" for her, like she went to an expensive clothing store where she thought she should shop and the 60 year old stylist picked out clothes she thought looked young.

It is very clear to me that Ethan and Cameron have fallen back into a very familiar pattern and that Ethan is now remembering how much he actually hated that dynamic. Which is why he makes that mimetic desire speech and insults Cameron.

Sure, he's always been a nerd, but the person Harper thinks she married would not have wanted to be friends with a douchey bro like Cameron. Ethan was not only friends with him, he wanted to be friends with him badly enough that he put up with all kinds of bad treatment from him. The Ethan who married Harper is much more self-serious, political, etc....like Harper. But who is the new Ethan going to be?

I bet their story journey ends with them finally having some hot s**, and deciding that married life as a rich couple is great

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand people who stan Daphne. Her marriage is a horrible shit show. Getting knocked up by your trainer and passing it off as your husband’s is not some cool power play. If she ever gets found out, she’d ruin that kid’s life.

OMG is that why she showed Harper the picture of the kids rather than the trainer?

I don’t think so. She talked about the trainer to make herself out as not being a victim. She may or may not have a trainer she sleeps with, but at the end of the day, it’s her kids who give her the motivation to get over whatever Cameron does and not focus on it.

Eh, she says my trainer has blond hair and blue eyes, want to see a picture? Then shows a picture of a blond haired kid. Cameron has brown hair. Google it.

https://www.today.com/popculture/tv/white-lotus-season-2-daphne-trainer-kids-theory-rcna59147

She’s calling the kid her trainer. She’s making some innuendo about her life, that she’s not a victim because she can do whatever Cameron is doing and have sex with whomever she wants. She makes that point to Harper. Then when she shows her the picture, it’s her kids- the point is that she doesn’t want to cheat, that’s not what actually makes her feel better about it. She just wants her happy, very comfortable life with her kids and her husband. People are reading way into this. Her trainer did not father her children.

Also, even if Cameron had brown eyes, hasn’t anyone ever heard of recessive genes? My dad has blue eyes and my mom has brown. I’m one of four kids and only one of us have brown eyes. The rest of us have blue and green.

I think you and I are the only ones that see this in this thread. I tack it up to personal life experience and age. Sigh.

The scene is purposefully ambiguous. They had her go on and on about this adorable trainer with blonde hair and blue eyes, two recessive genes. And then show a photo of a blonde haired blue eyed kid. I'm not SURE the trainer is the dad, but the show is clearly leaving the ambiguity there, putting the question out there. This is a show where all the background choices are dripping in meaning. There is a photo of St. Lucia in one of the rooms.

GOOD LORD!! Daphne has light hair and blue eyes. Cameron only has to carry the recessive gene for blue eyes and they can definitely have blonde hair and blue-eyed kids.

I'm a brunette woman with two teenage blonde blue-eyed sons that definitely came from me. My husband is blonde. A blonde/red-head and a brunette can definitely make a blonde kid---and many of these kids are blonde as kids that turn darker as they get older.

People assume dark hair is dominant, but my sister also has two blonde kids and one brunette and her hair is jet black. Her husband is a blonde.

Yeah that is why I said it is AMBIGUOUS. Do you know what the word ambiguous means? The show is basically swimming in ambiguity but when they want something to be clear they do show it (ie we know Ethan did not cheat on Harper that night with Cameron).

I'm not saying the kids aren't Cameron's, I'm saying the scene is ambiguous. Are you also the poster that thinks the only way people can love each other is sunshine and rainbows and happiness and Daphne is just some poor lovestuck lady crying herself to sleep every night?

No. I'm the person saying Cameron and Daphne love each other--even with his flaws and infidelity.

Well then we agree on that! But I honestly don't see how anyone could not at least acknowledge that the scene was intentionally ambiguous. It was a pivotal scene where Daphne was being vague. It could mean anything.

BUT I don't think it has any bearing on the deaths for two reasons.

1) The whole point Daphne is making is, IMO, immaterial to whether she is having an affair or whether she gets her purpose from her kids. Her point is that she sees Cameron for who he is and instead of letting it ruin her, she does what she wants and lives how she wants and copes with this unhappiness by getting fulfillment elsewhere. It isn't important who the father is or if there is or isn't a trainer. Her point is that she finds a way, and Harper can find a way too, and that they, as women, shouldn't depend on imperfect men to determine their lives and happiness.

2) I don't think the conflict that results in a death will be between Daphne and Cameron. They have both decided that they can handle their demons and suppress their unhappiness to be together. Neither has unresolved anger towards each other. It is processed accepted and dealt with. Unlike say Harper and Ethan who have an elephant of tension standing in the room with them. Cameron and Daphne don't have that. I think the only thing that could send them over the edge is Cameron being broke, but I honestly still think she would likely just join him in trying to pull a scam rather than walk away. Daphne has coping mechanisms and uses them. I think she's capable of murder honestly, but I don't think she has any desire to murder him

I didn't find that scene ambiguous in the least. I do find it really interesting that people are making up an entire psyche for Daphne where she makes up an entire other person as a symbol for her kids instead of just talking about her kids. What she did was not vague at all. It was very intentional. She's not foggy or confused. She's actually very focused.

And when they went to Noto Daphne was crystal clear that her motivation for staying overnight was to mess with/punish Cameron. All this romanticism that she's so sweet and just really lives for her kids so she couldn't be having an affair is a backstory we haven't seen other than her wanting to call her kids again. It can be both.

I love how suggesting that they Facetime the kids one time (and not actually doing it!) has made her supermom in the eyes of DCUM. She has a new(ish?) baby and has jetted off to Italy for a week+ leaving the two little kids with the grandparents. I'm not saying that makes her a bad mom or anything but it's not "my kids are my whole life" behavior

She did it to please her husband. He’s the one telling her to forget the kids, have fun. She is torn and misses him. She wouldn’t send him alone knowing he cheated before.

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Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I disagree it's that straightforward. Sure, maybe that will be Daphne... but what will happen to Cameron in that situation? If he's not a saver and he's broke, then if he divorces Daphne he will truly have nothing at all -- no gorgeous wife, no kids, no money. And if he doesn't have money, how does he get the rest back? If his power lies in his money, and he's broke, and he didn't save for a rainy day... Cameron is screwed. Daphne has a very winning personality and I think it's more likely she lands on her feet, likely with help from her parents.

And while I agree in general that Albie is likely to make it out of this situation unscathed, I do think Lucia has real power because she is reading Dom pretty well. I absolutely think she has plans to gently blackmail him for cash to bankroll her own dreams. Whether this backfires or not is up in the air -- blackmail is dangerous. But Lucia is using her position of transactional intimacy in order to collect information and access, and she is at least attempting to play it to her advantage. I do think she has some power, the question is whether it will be enough to overcome the power Dom has. Dom is rich but has a fatal flaw, which is his weakness for sex and women. He is vulnerable.

Similarly, Mia is using her charm and attractiveness to wheedle job opportunities. And she has real talent. Is this massive power? No, but she's going to work it for all she's got.

I think one point of this season is that there are more kinds of power than just money or being a man. Women DO have power. Smart, insightful people DO have power. It takes more work and creativity to wield it than just being a rich white guy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Seriously, WHERE are you getting this from? We know nothing about Daphne’s background. The notion that her parents will surely be able to help is based on NOTHING.

Her parents are the ones watching the kids while they're in Italy (Daphne mentions this in an early episode when she talks about talking to the kids before bed and how much she misses them), so her parents are in the picture and stable and with it enough to take care of a couple small kids for like 10 days? Two weeks?

In other words, I'm getting this from watching the show we're talking about.

The vacation is a week. Caring for two children for one week is quite different from taking on financial responsibility for a grown woman and two children. If Cameron goes broke and her parents aren't all that financially well off, she will be in a bad situation quite quickly and the rosy picture you're painting of her life seems unlikely. What skills and education does Daphne have? Did she ever work? Why don't you make up some more stuff about her backstory out of whole cloth, so that your little fantasy of her works out?

Hi. Calm the eff down. It is a television show, I am speculating about a fictional character for fun and because it is interesting. The whole point is that you can read what you want into things and there are no "right" answers. I disagreed with your assertion that Daphne would be screwed without Cameron -- my impression of her character is that she is resourceful and has better interpersonal skills that Cameron, and seems to have a good relationship with her parents from what we've seen. Cameron seems like an a$$hole who burns bridges, treats even those closest to him like dirt, and gets caught up in toxic pissing matches to a point of self-destruction. So yes, my money is on Daphne having more resilience than Cameron.

You are welcome to have a different take, and welcome to share it here. But berating people for "making up" stuff about FICTIONAL CHARACTERS, like there's some rule you can't speculate about the imaginary backgrounds about imaginary people, is ridiculous. Grow up.

Hi. I'm calm. I just think your speculations are specious. Grow up? I'm not the one playing make believe here.

We're all "playing make believe." It's a fictional show. No one can be totally wrong about these characters' backgrounds, motivations, or futures because those things aren't real and never will be. Everything in this thread is an interpretation of the "text" -- the dialogue and the portrayals by the actors and the way the show is edited and shot. One person can have a "rosy picture" of a character and another can see something deeply sinister or sad, and neither are right or wrong. It's all just interpretation and opinion.

You can disagree with someone's interpretation but you can't accuse them of being wrong. There is no right/wrong in this game. It's all make believe, though we can draw what we believe to be truth from the make believe.

There's just no evidence that Daphne comes from a rich background or has a trust fund.

Disagree there is no evidence that Daphne comes from money. For me, she has a very strong vibe of someone who has never really had to worry about money before, who is very comfortable around wealth and spending money, and has that air of total detachment from the workaday world that people usually only get if they have never really had to work for a living. I definitely get the sense that she is from, if not wealth, a UMC background. She reminds me of women I have known who grew up the favorite daughter of doctors or lawyers in midwestern cities where that money goes a long way. Very nice public schools if not private schools (usually Catholic but sometimes not), college paid for at a place like Vassar, Notre Dame, a Seven Sister, Baird, maybe Reed if they are crunchy. Maybe grad school (a masters or law school, not med school even if they have a doctor for a parent because med school is hard and long and a huge commitment and these women are used to a softer life). Then a brief professional career in a city like NY, Boston, DC, SF, LA, Chicago, Houston, Miami, or Atlanta. Ideally a city where there are a good number of young men working in finance, law, consulting, or on a corporate ladder. The goal is to marry one of those, have a couple kids, get the big house and the nice vacations to exclusive resorts with first class airfare. They have carefully curated IG feeds that go from world travels with their hot, successful boyfriend/fiance, to world travels with their new family of three or four. They are "foodies" (#michlinstar), they all have at least one hobby that is really an excuse to exercise to stay hot and also get out aggression. Preferably as part of an exercise cult -- they don't do yoga at home or just hit the gym alone, they are SolidCore devotees or they talk about their trainer all the time (ahem) or they've taken up something nice like aerial silks or pole dancing, which they feel makes them more interesting and distinguishes themselves from the other rich finance/law/consultant wives. They might pretend to care about politics or feminism, but these things have no real bearing on their lives, so it's always a feint. They've never really had to worry about that stuff. They are throwbacks -- they went from daddy's bankroll to their husband's. They are like housecats. They can be smart, insightful, resourceful (sometimes scarily so), but they are also pretty useless and rely on others for every aspect of their care and feeding.

Yes, I think Daphne comes from money of some kind. She's not some plucky working class kid who lucked into marrying a rich finance bro. Those guys don't date Cinderellas, sorry.

OMG, I'm so embarrassed for you that you've thought this much about it and took the time to type all that out.

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Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I disagree it's that straightforward. Sure, maybe that will be Daphne... but what will happen to Cameron in that situation? If he's not a saver and he's broke, then if he divorces Daphne he will truly have nothing at all -- no gorgeous wife, no kids, no money. And if he doesn't have money, how does he get the rest back? If his power lies in his money, and he's broke, and he didn't save for a rainy day... Cameron is screwed. Daphne has a very winning personality and I think it's more likely she lands on her feet, likely with help from her parents.

And while I agree in general that Albie is likely to make it out of this situation unscathed, I do think Lucia has real power because she is reading Dom pretty well. I absolutely think she has plans to gently blackmail him for cash to bankroll her own dreams. Whether this backfires or not is up in the air -- blackmail is dangerous. But Lucia is using her position of transactional intimacy in order to collect information and access, and she is at least attempting to play it to her advantage. I do think she has some power, the question is whether it will be enough to overcome the power Dom has. Dom is rich but has a fatal flaw, which is his weakness for sex and women. He is vulnerable.

Similarly, Mia is using her charm and attractiveness to wheedle job opportunities. And she has real talent. Is this massive power? No, but she's going to work it for all she's got.

I think one point of this season is that there are more kinds of power than just money or being a man. Women DO have power. Smart, insightful people DO have power. It takes more work and creativity to wield it than just being a rich white guy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Seriously, WHERE are you getting this from? We know nothing about Daphne’s background. The notion that her parents will surely be able to help is based on NOTHING.

Her parents are the ones watching the kids while they're in Italy (Daphne mentions this in an early episode when she talks about talking to the kids before bed and how much she misses them), so her parents are in the picture and stable and with it enough to take care of a couple small kids for like 10 days? Two weeks?

In other words, I'm getting this from watching the show we're talking about.

The vacation is a week. Caring for two children for one week is quite different from taking on financial responsibility for a grown woman and two children. If Cameron goes broke and her parents aren't all that financially well off, she will be in a bad situation quite quickly and the rosy picture you're painting of her life seems unlikely. What skills and education does Daphne have? Did she ever work? Why don't you make up some more stuff about her backstory out of whole cloth, so that your little fantasy of her works out?

+1

It's extremely bizarre to me that people think this woman's life is aspirational or that she has a good relationship. And yes people have said those exact things in this thread.

To me, their relationship is a complete dumpster fire and she is a cautionary tale.

And, Harper isn't? Out of the two women, Harper seems way more miserable and dissatisfied in her sexless marriage with a husband that shows her zero affection and is always annoyed with her and beating off to p*rn.

Did I say anything about Harper? No. Their marriage is a mess too. But at least Harper doesn't have innocent kids in the mix and she has a job.

Exactly, Harper can easily leave the marriage and never deal with Ethan.

Daphne cannot, she is tethered to Cam forever via the kids, custody arrangements, child support whatever direction, etc.

If she comes for money she could get full custody and live off the interest of fixed income investments. All you need is $1M of rental or yield producing investments to throw off $100-200k a year to live on. It’s called wealth. So imagine the passive income if she has a $5-20m trust. The principal isn’t going anywhere, it’s growing, and the passive income can be swept out annually as needed or reinvested

omg now you've had daphne investing in rental properties?

do you see yourself in daphne - is this why you've constructed such specific, and off-book ways of making her life work out? i'm not asking that to be rude - but out of deep curiosity.

No, I don’t.

Only if that I’m married to an aspergers work addict spouse who ignores me and the kids entirely. He’d be hell to divorce and he unravels quickly when alone with the kids. They increasingly don’t get along as they have gotten older.

I am sorry you're dealing with that. Do you think you've cycled through a lot of scenarios where you leave your spouse and it works out, and now you do that for fictional characters, too? I'm not saying that we can't imagine what a divorced Daphne's life would look like - but it does seem just out of left field to imagine/posit she has the backstop of rich parents or a huge rental income investment. Where do those ideas come from?

No, you cycle through scenarios where the kids suffer but how much.
Anyhow I work in an industry with a lot of wealthy women, men and families and entrepreneurs. She has the confidence and looks of family money, manners, and EQ that also demands a prenup.

Actually, Tanya is a much more realistic portrayal of the wealthy--entitled and rude. And plenty of very wealthy people are not attractive at all. You've completely drunk the Kool-Aid that rich people are nice, smart, good-looking--everything positive. Why? You'll never sit at their table, so stop kowtowing to them, grateful for the breadcrumbs they throw you. It's so thirsty.

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Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I disagree it's that straightforward. Sure, maybe that will be Daphne... but what will happen to Cameron in that situation? If he's not a saver and he's broke, then if he divorces Daphne he will truly have nothing at all -- no gorgeous wife, no kids, no money. And if he doesn't have money, how does he get the rest back? If his power lies in his money, and he's broke, and he didn't save for a rainy day... Cameron is screwed. Daphne has a very winning personality and I think it's more likely she lands on her feet, likely with help from her parents.

And while I agree in general that Albie is likely to make it out of this situation unscathed, I do think Lucia has real power because she is reading Dom pretty well. I absolutely think she has plans to gently blackmail him for cash to bankroll her own dreams. Whether this backfires or not is up in the air -- blackmail is dangerous. But Lucia is using her position of transactional intimacy in order to collect information and access, and she is at least attempting to play it to her advantage. I do think she has some power, the question is whether it will be enough to overcome the power Dom has. Dom is rich but has a fatal flaw, which is his weakness for sex and women. He is vulnerable.

Similarly, Mia is using her charm and attractiveness to wheedle job opportunities. And she has real talent. Is this massive power? No, but she's going to work it for all she's got.

I think one point of this season is that there are more kinds of power than just money or being a man. Women DO have power. Smart, insightful people DO have power. It takes more work and creativity to wield it than just being a rich white guy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Seriously, WHERE are you getting this from? We know nothing about Daphne’s background. The notion that her parents will surely be able to help is based on NOTHING.

Her parents are the ones watching the kids while they're in Italy (Daphne mentions this in an early episode when she talks about talking to the kids before bed and how much she misses them), so her parents are in the picture and stable and with it enough to take care of a couple small kids for like 10 days? Two weeks?

In other words, I'm getting this from watching the show we're talking about.

The vacation is a week. Caring for two children for one week is quite different from taking on financial responsibility for a grown woman and two children. If Cameron goes broke and her parents aren't all that financially well off, she will be in a bad situation quite quickly and the rosy picture you're painting of her life seems unlikely. What skills and education does Daphne have? Did she ever work? Why don't you make up some more stuff about her backstory out of whole cloth, so that your little fantasy of her works out?

Hi. Calm the eff down. It is a television show, I am speculating about a fictional character for fun and because it is interesting. The whole point is that you can read what you want into things and there are no "right" answers. I disagreed with your assertion that Daphne would be screwed without Cameron -- my impression of her character is that she is resourceful and has better interpersonal skills that Cameron, and seems to have a good relationship with her parents from what we've seen. Cameron seems like an a$$hole who burns bridges, treats even those closest to him like dirt, and gets caught up in toxic pissing matches to a point of self-destruction. So yes, my money is on Daphne having more resilience than Cameron.

You are welcome to have a different take, and welcome to share it here. But berating people for "making up" stuff about FICTIONAL CHARACTERS, like there's some rule you can't speculate about the imaginary backgrounds about imaginary people, is ridiculous. Grow up.

Hi. I'm calm. I just think your speculations are specious. Grow up? I'm not the one playing make believe here.

We're all "playing make believe." It's a fictional show. No one can be totally wrong about these characters' backgrounds, motivations, or futures because those things aren't real and never will be. Everything in this thread is an interpretation of the "text" -- the dialogue and the portrayals by the actors and the way the show is edited and shot. One person can have a "rosy picture" of a character and another can see something deeply sinister or sad, and neither are right or wrong. It's all just interpretation and opinion.

You can disagree with someone's interpretation but you can't accuse them of being wrong. There is no right/wrong in this game. It's all make believe, though we can draw what we believe to be truth from the make believe.

There's just no evidence that Daphne comes from a rich background or has a trust fund.

Disagree there is no evidence that Daphne comes from money. For me, she has a very strong vibe of someone who has never really had to worry about money before, who is very comfortable around wealth and spending money, and has that air of total detachment from the workaday world that people usually only get if they have never really had to work for a living. I definitely get the sense that she is from, if not wealth, a UMC background. She reminds me of women I have known who grew up the favorite daughter of doctors or lawyers in midwestern cities where that money goes a long way. Very nice public schools if not private schools (usually Catholic but sometimes not), college paid for at a place like Vassar, Notre Dame, a Seven Sister, Baird, maybe Reed if they are crunchy. Maybe grad school (a masters or law school, not med school even if they have a doctor for a parent because med school is hard and long and a huge commitment and these women are used to a softer life). Then a brief professional career in a city like NY, Boston, DC, SF, LA, Chicago, Houston, Miami, or Atlanta. Ideally a city where there are a good number of young men working in finance, law, consulting, or on a corporate ladder. The goal is to marry one of those, have a couple kids, get the big house and the nice vacations to exclusive resorts with first class airfare. They have carefully curated IG feeds that go from world travels with their hot, successful boyfriend/fiance, to world travels with their new family of three or four. They are "foodies" (#michlinstar), they all have at least one hobby that is really an excuse to exercise to stay hot and also get out aggression. Preferably as part of an exercise cult -- they don't do yoga at home or just hit the gym alone, they are SolidCore devotees or they talk about their trainer all the time (ahem) or they've taken up something nice like aerial silks or pole dancing, which they feel makes them more interesting and distinguishes themselves from the other rich finance/law/consultant wives. They might pretend to care about politics or feminism, but these things have no real bearing on their lives, so it's always a feint. They've never really had to worry about that stuff. They are throwbacks -- they went from daddy's bankroll to their husband's. They are like housecats. They can be smart, insightful, resourceful (sometimes scarily so), but they are also pretty useless and rely on others for every aspect of their care and feeding.

Yes, I think Daphne comes from money of some kind. She's not some plucky working class kid who lucked into marrying a rich finance bro. Those guys don't date Cinderellas, sorry.

There's a lot in between "comes from money" and plucky working class kid. The above describes the background of about 75-80% of the women I grew up or went to college with. I can think of one of them that actually comes from money. The rest of your post describes some women I am sure, but it a whole lot of projection.

The point is that the women you know like this, if they got divorced from wealthy and cheating husbands, would they be destitute or would they be welcomed home and helped back on their feet? It's the latter.

I think it's very unlikely Daphne would be destitute if she and Cameron broke up. And the reason I think this is relevant is not because I love Daphne (I actively dislike many aspects of her personality, actually), but because I think if it turns out that Cameron is broke (which signs indicate he might be), Daphne would dump his a$$ in a hot minute because I think she has options and she does not need to hang around to get pulled down with a sinking ship. She's beautiful, seems to have some kind of family support, and she's reasonably savvy about the world. She's made her deal with Cameron because she has real affection for him and because he enables a certain lifestyle for her and her kids. If Cameron can no longer provide that, what would be the point of staying with him. Because she "loves" him? Sorry, but like 70% of that love is simply appreciation for what he offers her.

This began as a debate over who has the most power in Cameron and Daphne's relationship. And I remain firmly of the belief that Daphne has more power and more options because she has more to offer than just "being rich". Whereas Cameron's value as a person is very dependent on him having not just money, but A LOT of money. If he, say, over leveraged himself on some investments that went south, or go swindled by one of his unethical fellow finance bros, he is screwed because Daphne will leave him and his value to other prospective partners depends on his money.

Look at his interactions with Lucia. She was game when she thought he'd be bankrolling the night and she has ZERO patience with him now that he's trying to stiff her. Unlike her thing with Albie, she doesn't like Cameron and is not remotely charmed by him. He was a paying customer, that's it. I think Daphne would have a fairly similar shift in demeanor if Cameron turned off the money spigot, and I think Cameron knows that.

It’s DC. I know beautiful working mothers like Daphne married to cheaters that have great careers too. It’s the love, belief in marriage through good and bad and sticking it out for their kids so as to break a cycle of dysfunction. Those relationships exist even when the spouse has $ and/or employment too. They aren’t “victims” because they could definitely leave and be financially sound if they wanted to, but there is love and hope.

Mike White is openly bisexual and has been in gay relationships. Dan Savage makes a big point that many male homosexual long term relationships/marriages have cheating (DADT or open) and it doesn’t negatively affect the relationship/mean anything. I wonder how much his own background is reflected in his shows. He also is friends with many beautiful, talented actresses that have been cheated on, etc.

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Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I disagree it's that straightforward. Sure, maybe that will be Daphne... but what will happen to Cameron in that situation? If he's not a saver and he's broke, then if he divorces Daphne he will truly have nothing at all -- no gorgeous wife, no kids, no money. And if he doesn't have money, how does he get the rest back? If his power lies in his money, and he's broke, and he didn't save for a rainy day... Cameron is screwed. Daphne has a very winning personality and I think it's more likely she lands on her feet, likely with help from her parents.

And while I agree in general that Albie is likely to make it out of this situation unscathed, I do think Lucia has real power because she is reading Dom pretty well. I absolutely think she has plans to gently blackmail him for cash to bankroll her own dreams. Whether this backfires or not is up in the air -- blackmail is dangerous. But Lucia is using her position of transactional intimacy in order to collect information and access, and she is at least attempting to play it to her advantage. I do think she has some power, the question is whether it will be enough to overcome the power Dom has. Dom is rich but has a fatal flaw, which is his weakness for sex and women. He is vulnerable.

Similarly, Mia is using her charm and attractiveness to wheedle job opportunities. And she has real talent. Is this massive power? No, but she's going to work it for all she's got.

I think one point of this season is that there are more kinds of power than just money or being a man. Women DO have power. Smart, insightful people DO have power. It takes more work and creativity to wield it than just being a rich white guy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Seriously, WHERE are you getting this from? We know nothing about Daphne’s background. The notion that her parents will surely be able to help is based on NOTHING.

Her parents are the ones watching the kids while they're in Italy (Daphne mentions this in an early episode when she talks about talking to the kids before bed and how much she misses them), so her parents are in the picture and stable and with it enough to take care of a couple small kids for like 10 days? Two weeks?

In other words, I'm getting this from watching the show we're talking about.

The vacation is a week. Caring for two children for one week is quite different from taking on financial responsibility for a grown woman and two children. If Cameron goes broke and her parents aren't all that financially well off, she will be in a bad situation quite quickly and the rosy picture you're painting of her life seems unlikely. What skills and education does Daphne have? Did she ever work? Why don't you make up some more stuff about her backstory out of whole cloth, so that your little fantasy of her works out?

Hi. Calm the eff down. It is a television show, I am speculating about a fictional character for fun and because it is interesting. The whole point is that you can read what you want into things and there are no "right" answers. I disagreed with your assertion that Daphne would be screwed without Cameron -- my impression of her character is that she is resourceful and has better interpersonal skills that Cameron, and seems to have a good relationship with her parents from what we've seen. Cameron seems like an a$$hole who burns bridges, treats even those closest to him like dirt, and gets caught up in toxic pissing matches to a point of self-destruction. So yes, my money is on Daphne having more resilience than Cameron.

You are welcome to have a different take, and welcome to share it here. But berating people for "making up" stuff about FICTIONAL CHARACTERS, like there's some rule you can't speculate about the imaginary backgrounds about imaginary people, is ridiculous. Grow up.

Hi. I'm calm. I just think your speculations are specious. Grow up? I'm not the one playing make believe here.

We're all "playing make believe." It's a fictional show. No one can be totally wrong about these characters' backgrounds, motivations, or futures because those things aren't real and never will be. Everything in this thread is an interpretation of the "text" -- the dialogue and the portrayals by the actors and the way the show is edited and shot. One person can have a "rosy picture" of a character and another can see something deeply sinister or sad, and neither are right or wrong. It's all just interpretation and opinion.

You can disagree with someone's interpretation but you can't accuse them of being wrong. There is no right/wrong in this game. It's all make believe, though we can draw what we believe to be truth from the make believe.

There's just no evidence that Daphne comes from a rich background or has a trust fund.

Disagree there is no evidence that Daphne comes from money. For me, she has a very strong vibe of someone who has never really had to worry about money before, who is very comfortable around wealth and spending money, and has that air of total detachment from the workaday world that people usually only get if they have never really had to work for a living. I definitely get the sense that she is from, if not wealth, a UMC background. She reminds me of women I have known who grew up the favorite daughter of doctors or lawyers in midwestern cities where that money goes a long way. Very nice public schools if not private schools (usually Catholic but sometimes not), college paid for at a place like Vassar, Notre Dame, a Seven Sister, Baird, maybe Reed if they are crunchy. Maybe grad school (a masters or law school, not med school even if they have a doctor for a parent because med school is hard and long and a huge commitment and these women are used to a softer life). Then a brief professional career in a city like NY, Boston, DC, SF, LA, Chicago, Houston, Miami, or Atlanta. Ideally a city where there are a good number of young men working in finance, law, consulting, or on a corporate ladder. The goal is to marry one of those, have a couple kids, get the big house and the nice vacations to exclusive resorts with first class airfare. They have carefully curated IG feeds that go from world travels with their hot, successful boyfriend/fiance, to world travels with their new family of three or four. They are "foodies" (#michlinstar), they all have at least one hobby that is really an excuse to exercise to stay hot and also get out aggression. Preferably as part of an exercise cult -- they don't do yoga at home or just hit the gym alone, they are SolidCore devotees or they talk about their trainer all the time (ahem) or they've taken up something nice like aerial silks or pole dancing, which they feel makes them more interesting and distinguishes themselves from the other rich finance/law/consultant wives. They might pretend to care about politics or feminism, but these things have no real bearing on their lives, so it's always a feint. They've never really had to worry about that stuff. They are throwbacks -- they went from daddy's bankroll to their husband's. They are like housecats. They can be smart, insightful, resourceful (sometimes scarily so), but they are also pretty useless and rely on others for every aspect of their care and feeding.

Yes, I think Daphne comes from money of some kind. She's not some plucky working class kid who lucked into marrying a rich finance bro. Those guys don't date Cinderellas, sorry.

OMG, I'm so embarrassed for you that you've thought this much about it and took the time to type all that out.

She sounds jealous like Harper. Lol

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Let's put Daphne and Cameron to bed and get back to discussing the frescoes, st lucia, the tarot reading, teste di moro, Mdm Butterfly, the Godfather, plunging cliff lady and Greg.

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I think it's interesting to see what these people do when someone around them needs help:

Harper to Tanya at the breakfast buffet when Tanya is dropping stuff: "I think someone is coming to give you a hand" basically ignores her.

Cameron and his fourple after the piano player keels over: Asks for his table, basically ignores and steps over the guy. Daphne seems to notice and be upset but goes on with her life.

Portia: Can't get over to Nonno fast enough when he falls over on the first day. Actually solicitious. A sign of her relative poorness compared to these rich freaks with no souls?

Albie to Portia (his wounded bird) when they first met by the pool and she was upset about her job: Tries to help and engage her, generally.

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand people who stan Daphne. Her marriage is a horrible shit show. Getting knocked up by your trainer and passing it off as your husband’s is not some cool power play. If she ever gets found out, she’d ruin that kid’s life.

OMG is that why she showed Harper the picture of the kids rather than the trainer?

I don’t think so. She talked about the trainer to make herself out as not being a victim. She may or may not have a trainer she sleeps with, but at the end of the day, it’s her kids who give her the motivation to get over whatever Cameron does and not focus on it.

Eh, she says my trainer has blond hair and blue eyes, want to see a picture? Then shows a picture of a blond haired kid. Cameron has brown hair. Google it.

https://www.today.com/popculture/tv/white-lotus-season-2-daphne-trainer-kids-theory-rcna59147

She’s calling the kid her trainer. She’s making some innuendo about her life, that she’s not a victim because she can do whatever Cameron is doing and have sex with whomever she wants. She makes that point to Harper. Then when she shows her the picture, it’s her kids- the point is that she doesn’t want to cheat, that’s not what actually makes her feel better about it. She just wants her happy, very comfortable life with her kids and her husband. People are reading way into this. Her trainer did not father her children.

Also, even if Cameron had brown eyes, hasn’t anyone ever heard of recessive genes? My dad has blue eyes and my mom has brown. I’m one of four kids and only one of us have brown eyes. The rest of us have blue and green.

I think you and I are the only ones that see this in this thread. I tack it up to personal life experience and age. Sigh.

The scene is purposefully ambiguous. They had her go on and on about this adorable trainer with blonde hair and blue eyes, two recessive genes. And then show a photo of a blonde haired blue eyed kid. I'm not SURE the trainer is the dad, but the show is clearly leaving the ambiguity there, putting the question out there. This is a show where all the background choices are dripping in meaning. There is a photo of St. Lucia in one of the rooms.

GOOD LORD!! Daphne has light hair and blue eyes. Cameron only has to carry the recessive gene for blue eyes and they can definitely have blonde hair and blue-eyed kids.

I'm a brunette woman with two teenage blonde blue-eyed sons that definitely came from me. My husband is blonde. A blonde/red-head and a brunette can definitely make a blonde kid---and many of these kids are blonde as kids that turn darker as they get older.

People assume dark hair is dominant, but my sister also has two blonde kids and one brunette and her hair is jet black. Her husband is a blonde.

Yeah that is why I said it is AMBIGUOUS. Do you know what the word ambiguous means? The show is basically swimming in ambiguity but when they want something to be clear they do show it (ie we know Ethan did not cheat on Harper that night with Cameron).

I'm not saying the kids aren't Cameron's, I'm saying the scene is ambiguous. Are you also the poster that thinks the only way people can love each other is sunshine and rainbows and happiness and Daphne is just some poor lovestuck lady crying herself to sleep every night?

No. I'm the person saying Cameron and Daphne love each other--even with his flaws and infidelity.

Well then we agree on that! But I honestly don't see how anyone could not at least acknowledge that the scene was intentionally ambiguous. It was a pivotal scene where Daphne was being vague. It could mean anything.

BUT I don't think it has any bearing on the deaths for two reasons.

1) The whole point Daphne is making is, IMO, immaterial to whether she is having an affair or whether she gets her purpose from her kids. Her point is that she sees Cameron for who he is and instead of letting it ruin her, she does what she wants and lives how she wants and copes with this unhappiness by getting fulfillment elsewhere. It isn't important who the father is or if there is or isn't a trainer. Her point is that she finds a way, and Harper can find a way too, and that they, as women, shouldn't depend on imperfect men to determine their lives and happiness.

2) I don't think the conflict that results in a death will be between Daphne and Cameron. They have both decided that they can handle their demons and suppress their unhappiness to be together. Neither has unresolved anger towards each other. It is processed accepted and dealt with. Unlike say Harper and Ethan who have an elephant of tension standing in the room with them. Cameron and Daphne don't have that. I think the only thing that could send them over the edge is Cameron being broke, but I honestly still think she would likely just join him in trying to pull a scam rather than walk away. Daphne has coping mechanisms and uses them. I think she's capable of murder honestly, but I don't think she has any desire to murder him

I didn't find that scene ambiguous in the least. I do find it really interesting that people are making up an entire psyche for Daphne where she makes up an entire other person as a symbol for her kids instead of just talking about her kids. What she did was not vague at all. It was very intentional. She's not foggy or confused. She's actually very focused.

And when they went to Noto Daphne was crystal clear that her motivation for staying overnight was to mess with/punish Cameron. All this romanticism that she's so sweet and just really lives for her kids so she couldn't be having an affair is a backstory we haven't seen other than her wanting to call her kids again. It can be both.

I’m the pp and notably I am not the person creating elaborate backstories for Daphne. I think that poster is really reaching! That said I do agree that she comes off as old money. Maybe not sitting on a trust fund but she grew up in a world not too far removed from this one. The way she floats so comfortably through the excess says this I think. But all this conjecture about her having rich parents to fall back on is I think irrelevant. I think the way she carries herself says she sees her life through clear eyes and I think she’s shown she is very resilient and while I don’t know what her safety net is she seems like a survivor to me.