The White Lotus season 2

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand what Cameron thinks he's doing by trying to get with Harper if he also wants Ethan to invest his money with him. Can he just not stop himself? Or does he think this is a mindgame that will keep Ethan subservient to him somehow like in college? I don't think it would -- I think it would make Ethan want to stay far, far away from him. And I'd expect someone like Cameron who makes his living the way he does (especially if it's by scamming people) to have more emotional intelligence than that.

It just doesn't make sense to me. It could blow up the whole trip and their whole relationship and doesn't seem like it could lead to anything positive for an ultimate end result for him. So why is he risking it? Is he just stupid?

Cameron thinks he is untouchable. And he has the mindset of a bully who believes he's in control of the subject of his bullying. And he knows he is exceptionally good looking and I imagine does not encounter women who don't fall over him often. Harper is enticing on two fronts, she is a challenge in her own right because she clearly doesn't like him, and she is Ethan's wife (property) and he wants what Ethan has. Clearly he and Ethan have a relationship with deep tension, and sometimes when you're dealing with a relationship like that your normal judgement is clouded.

He is hedonistic and doesn't even seem like he thinks he should exert effort to control his urges, he just believes he needs to follow the social contract and keep infidelity hidden. Because this is the contract he has unspoken with Daphne. So he lives in a way where he acts first and thinks later. This is probably how he earned (and likely lost) his money and just how he lives. He has never faced serious consequences for his behavior so he has never had to adjust his behavior.

Absolutely.

If Harper is suddenly done with her marriage, why not hook up with Cam. Unf Ethan will blame Cam and never look at how emotionally and physically neglectful he was as a husband. But Harper won’t care, she’s a lawyer and will serve him herself.

I don't really buy all this. Cameron needs to have realized by now in his life that he can't do anything he wants or he will hurt himself. If the whole point of this trip was to try to get Ethan to invest with him, you don't mess it up by getting Ethan to hate you for messing up their marriage. It seems incredibly stupid and I think this is a case where, if that's what's going on, I fault the writing. I guess it all adds drama but I just don't think it makes any sense for his ultimate goal.

Everything Cameron has said and done in the show so far makes it extremely clear that he has NOT realized this.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I disagree it's that straightforward. Sure, maybe that will be Daphne... but what will happen to Cameron in that situation? If he's not a saver and he's broke, then if he divorces Daphne he will truly have nothing at all -- no gorgeous wife, no kids, no money. And if he doesn't have money, how does he get the rest back? If his power lies in his money, and he's broke, and he didn't save for a rainy day... Cameron is screwed. Daphne has a very winning personality and I think it's more likely she lands on her feet, likely with help from her parents.

And while I agree in general that Albie is likely to make it out of this situation unscathed, I do think Lucia has real power because she is reading Dom pretty well. I absolutely think she has plans to gently blackmail him for cash to bankroll her own dreams. Whether this backfires or not is up in the air -- blackmail is dangerous. But Lucia is using her position of transactional intimacy in order to collect information and access, and she is at least attempting to play it to her advantage. I do think she has some power, the question is whether it will be enough to overcome the power Dom has. Dom is rich but has a fatal flaw, which is his weakness for sex and women. He is vulnerable.

Similarly, Mia is using her charm and attractiveness to wheedle job opportunities. And she has real talent. Is this massive power? No, but she's going to work it for all she's got.

I think one point of this season is that there are more kinds of power than just money or being a man. Women DO have power. Smart, insightful people DO have power. It takes more work and creativity to wield it than just being a rich white guy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Seriously, WHERE are you getting this from? We know nothing about Daphne’s background. The notion that her parents will surely be able to help is based on NOTHING.

Her parents are the ones watching the kids while they're in Italy (Daphne mentions this in an early episode when she talks about talking to the kids before bed and how much she misses them), so her parents are in the picture and stable and with it enough to take care of a couple small kids for like 10 days? Two weeks?

In other words, I'm getting this from watching the show we're talking about.

The vacation is a week. Caring for two children for one week is quite different from taking on financial responsibility for a grown woman and two children. If Cameron goes broke and her parents aren't all that financially well off, she will be in a bad situation quite quickly and the rosy picture you're painting of her life seems unlikely. What skills and education does Daphne have? Did she ever work? Why don't you make up some more stuff about her backstory out of whole cloth, so that your little fantasy of her works out?

Hi. Calm the eff down. It is a television show, I am speculating about a fictional character for fun and because it is interesting. The whole point is that you can read what you want into things and there are no "right" answers. I disagreed with your assertion that Daphne would be screwed without Cameron -- my impression of her character is that she is resourceful and has better interpersonal skills that Cameron, and seems to have a good relationship with her parents from what we've seen. Cameron seems like an a$$hole who burns bridges, treats even those closest to him like dirt, and gets caught up in toxic pissing matches to a point of self-destruction. So yes, my money is on Daphne having more resilience than Cameron.

You are welcome to have a different take, and welcome to share it here. But berating people for "making up" stuff about FICTIONAL CHARACTERS, like there's some rule you can't speculate about the imaginary backgrounds about imaginary people, is ridiculous. Grow up.

Hi. I'm calm. I just think your speculations are specious. Grow up? I'm not the one playing make believe here.

We're all "playing make believe." It's a fictional show. No one can be totally wrong about these characters' backgrounds, motivations, or futures because those things aren't real and never will be. Everything in this thread is an interpretation of the "text" -- the dialogue and the portrayals by the actors and the way the show is edited and shot. One person can have a "rosy picture" of a character and another can see something deeply sinister or sad, and neither are right or wrong. It's all just interpretation and opinion.

You can disagree with someone's interpretation but you can't accuse them of being wrong. There is no right/wrong in this game. It's all make believe, though we can draw what we believe to be truth from the make believe.

There's just no evidence that Daphne comes from a rich background or has a trust fund.

Disagree there is no evidence that Daphne comes from money. For me, she has a very strong vibe of someone who has never really had to worry about money before, who is very comfortable around wealth and spending money, and has that air of total detachment from the workaday world that people usually only get if they have never really had to work for a living. I definitely get the sense that she is from, if not wealth, a UMC background. She reminds me of women I have known who grew up the favorite daughter of doctors or lawyers in midwestern cities where that money goes a long way. Very nice public schools if not private schools (usually Catholic but sometimes not), college paid for at a place like Vassar, Notre Dame, a Seven Sister, Baird, maybe Reed if they are crunchy. Maybe grad school (a masters or law school, not med school even if they have a doctor for a parent because med school is hard and long and a huge commitment and these women are used to a softer life). Then a brief professional career in a city like NY, Boston, DC, SF, LA, Chicago, Houston, Miami, or Atlanta. Ideally a city where there are a good number of young men working in finance, law, consulting, or on a corporate ladder. The goal is to marry one of those, have a couple kids, get the big house and the nice vacations to exclusive resorts with first class airfare. They have carefully curated IG feeds that go from world travels with their hot, successful boyfriend/fiance, to world travels with their new family of three or four. They are "foodies" (#michlinstar), they all have at least one hobby that is really an excuse to exercise to stay hot and also get out aggression. Preferably as part of an exercise cult -- they don't do yoga at home or just hit the gym alone, they are SolidCore devotees or they talk about their trainer all the time (ahem) or they've taken up something nice like aerial silks or pole dancing, which they feel makes them more interesting and distinguishes themselves from the other rich finance/law/consultant wives. They might pretend to care about politics or feminism, but these things have no real bearing on their lives, so it's always a feint. They've never really had to worry about that stuff. They are throwbacks -- they went from daddy's bankroll to their husband's. They are like housecats. They can be smart, insightful, resourceful (sometimes scarily so), but they are also pretty useless and rely on others for every aspect of their care and feeding.

Yes, I think Daphne comes from money of some kind. She's not some plucky working class kid who lucked into marrying a rich finance bro. Those guys don't date Cinderellas, sorry.

Do you think teh only two options are "plucky working class kid" or WASP princess with rich parents who will take care of her and her kids if her marriage falls apart?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I disagree it's that straightforward. Sure, maybe that will be Daphne... but what will happen to Cameron in that situation? If he's not a saver and he's broke, then if he divorces Daphne he will truly have nothing at all -- no gorgeous wife, no kids, no money. And if he doesn't have money, how does he get the rest back? If his power lies in his money, and he's broke, and he didn't save for a rainy day... Cameron is screwed. Daphne has a very winning personality and I think it's more likely she lands on her feet, likely with help from her parents.

And while I agree in general that Albie is likely to make it out of this situation unscathed, I do think Lucia has real power because she is reading Dom pretty well. I absolutely think she has plans to gently blackmail him for cash to bankroll her own dreams. Whether this backfires or not is up in the air -- blackmail is dangerous. But Lucia is using her position of transactional intimacy in order to collect information and access, and she is at least attempting to play it to her advantage. I do think she has some power, the question is whether it will be enough to overcome the power Dom has. Dom is rich but has a fatal flaw, which is his weakness for sex and women. He is vulnerable.

Similarly, Mia is using her charm and attractiveness to wheedle job opportunities. And she has real talent. Is this massive power? No, but she's going to work it for all she's got.

I think one point of this season is that there are more kinds of power than just money or being a man. Women DO have power. Smart, insightful people DO have power. It takes more work and creativity to wield it than just being a rich white guy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Seriously, WHERE are you getting this from? We know nothing about Daphne’s background. The notion that her parents will surely be able to help is based on NOTHING.

Her parents are the ones watching the kids while they're in Italy (Daphne mentions this in an early episode when she talks about talking to the kids before bed and how much she misses them), so her parents are in the picture and stable and with it enough to take care of a couple small kids for like 10 days? Two weeks?

In other words, I'm getting this from watching the show we're talking about.

The vacation is a week. Caring for two children for one week is quite different from taking on financial responsibility for a grown woman and two children. If Cameron goes broke and her parents aren't all that financially well off, she will be in a bad situation quite quickly and the rosy picture you're painting of her life seems unlikely. What skills and education does Daphne have? Did she ever work? Why don't you make up some more stuff about her backstory out of whole cloth, so that your little fantasy of her works out?

+1

It's extremely bizarre to me that people think this woman's life is aspirational or that she has a good relationship. And yes people have said those exact things in this thread.

To me, their relationship is a complete dumpster fire and she is a cautionary tale.

And, Harper isn't? Out of the two women, Harper seems way more miserable and dissatisfied in her sexless marriage with a husband that shows her zero affection and is always annoyed with her and beating off to p*rn.

Did I say anything about Harper? No. Their marriage is a mess too. But at least Harper doesn't have innocent kids in the mix and she has a job.

Exactly, Harper can easily leave the marriage and never deal with Ethan.

Daphne cannot, she is tethered to Cam forever via the kids, custody arrangements, child support whatever direction, etc.

If she comes for money she could get full custody and live off the interest of fixed income investments. All you need is $1M of rental or yield producing investments to throw off $100-200k a year to live on. It’s called wealth. So imagine the passive income if she has a $5-20m trust. The principal isn’t going anywhere, it’s growing, and the passive income can be swept out annually as needed or reinvested

omg now you've had daphne investing in rental properties?

do you see yourself in daphne - is this why you've constructed such specific, and off-book ways of making her life work out? i'm not asking that to be rude - but out of deep curiosity.

I would love to see how the Daphne-loving posters on this board would talk her character if she wasn't thin and beautiful. Would she still be this super savvy real estate investing genius, this warm-hearted maternal angel, etc?

Whomever set up the trust - similar how you would for a special needs kid - set the trustee and investments, not necessarily the recipient.

Oh right, "the trust"

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I disagree it's that straightforward. Sure, maybe that will be Daphne... but what will happen to Cameron in that situation? If he's not a saver and he's broke, then if he divorces Daphne he will truly have nothing at all -- no gorgeous wife, no kids, no money. And if he doesn't have money, how does he get the rest back? If his power lies in his money, and he's broke, and he didn't save for a rainy day... Cameron is screwed. Daphne has a very winning personality and I think it's more likely she lands on her feet, likely with help from her parents.

And while I agree in general that Albie is likely to make it out of this situation unscathed, I do think Lucia has real power because she is reading Dom pretty well. I absolutely think she has plans to gently blackmail him for cash to bankroll her own dreams. Whether this backfires or not is up in the air -- blackmail is dangerous. But Lucia is using her position of transactional intimacy in order to collect information and access, and she is at least attempting to play it to her advantage. I do think she has some power, the question is whether it will be enough to overcome the power Dom has. Dom is rich but has a fatal flaw, which is his weakness for sex and women. He is vulnerable.

Similarly, Mia is using her charm and attractiveness to wheedle job opportunities. And she has real talent. Is this massive power? No, but she's going to work it for all she's got.

I think one point of this season is that there are more kinds of power than just money or being a man. Women DO have power. Smart, insightful people DO have power. It takes more work and creativity to wield it than just being a rich white guy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Seriously, WHERE are you getting this from? We know nothing about Daphne’s background. The notion that her parents will surely be able to help is based on NOTHING.

Her parents are the ones watching the kids while they're in Italy (Daphne mentions this in an early episode when she talks about talking to the kids before bed and how much she misses them), so her parents are in the picture and stable and with it enough to take care of a couple small kids for like 10 days? Two weeks?

In other words, I'm getting this from watching the show we're talking about.

The vacation is a week. Caring for two children for one week is quite different from taking on financial responsibility for a grown woman and two children. If Cameron goes broke and her parents aren't all that financially well off, she will be in a bad situation quite quickly and the rosy picture you're painting of her life seems unlikely. What skills and education does Daphne have? Did she ever work? Why don't you make up some more stuff about her backstory out of whole cloth, so that your little fantasy of her works out?

Hi. Calm the eff down. It is a television show, I am speculating about a fictional character for fun and because it is interesting. The whole point is that you can read what you want into things and there are no "right" answers. I disagreed with your assertion that Daphne would be screwed without Cameron -- my impression of her character is that she is resourceful and has better interpersonal skills that Cameron, and seems to have a good relationship with her parents from what we've seen. Cameron seems like an a$$hole who burns bridges, treats even those closest to him like dirt, and gets caught up in toxic pissing matches to a point of self-destruction. So yes, my money is on Daphne having more resilience than Cameron.

You are welcome to have a different take, and welcome to share it here. But berating people for "making up" stuff about FICTIONAL CHARACTERS, like there's some rule you can't speculate about the imaginary backgrounds about imaginary people, is ridiculous. Grow up.

Hi. I'm calm. I just think your speculations are specious. Grow up? I'm not the one playing make believe here.

We're all "playing make believe." It's a fictional show. No one can be totally wrong about these characters' backgrounds, motivations, or futures because those things aren't real and never will be. Everything in this thread is an interpretation of the "text" -- the dialogue and the portrayals by the actors and the way the show is edited and shot. One person can have a "rosy picture" of a character and another can see something deeply sinister or sad, and neither are right or wrong. It's all just interpretation and opinion.

You can disagree with someone's interpretation but you can't accuse them of being wrong. There is no right/wrong in this game. It's all make believe, though we can draw what we believe to be truth from the make believe.

There's just no evidence that Daphne comes from a rich background or has a trust fund.

Disagree there is no evidence that Daphne comes from money. For me, she has a very strong vibe of someone who has never really had to worry about money before, who is very comfortable around wealth and spending money, and has that air of total detachment from the workaday world that people usually only get if they have never really had to work for a living. I definitely get the sense that she is from, if not wealth, a UMC background. She reminds me of women I have known who grew up the favorite daughter of doctors or lawyers in midwestern cities where that money goes a long way. Very nice public schools if not private schools (usually Catholic but sometimes not), college paid for at a place like Vassar, Notre Dame, a Seven Sister, Baird, maybe Reed if they are crunchy. Maybe grad school (a masters or law school, not med school even if they have a doctor for a parent because med school is hard and long and a huge commitment and these women are used to a softer life). Then a brief professional career in a city like NY, Boston, DC, SF, LA, Chicago, Houston, Miami, or Atlanta. Ideally a city where there are a good number of young men working in finance, law, consulting, or on a corporate ladder. The goal is to marry one of those, have a couple kids, get the big house and the nice vacations to exclusive resorts with first class airfare. They have carefully curated IG feeds that go from world travels with their hot, successful boyfriend/fiance, to world travels with their new family of three or four. They are "foodies" (#michlinstar), they all have at least one hobby that is really an excuse to exercise to stay hot and also get out aggression. Preferably as part of an exercise cult -- they don't do yoga at home or just hit the gym alone, they are SolidCore devotees or they talk about their trainer all the time (ahem) or they've taken up something nice like aerial silks or pole dancing, which they feel makes them more interesting and distinguishes themselves from the other rich finance/law/consultant wives. They might pretend to care about politics or feminism, but these things have no real bearing on their lives, so it's always a feint. They've never really had to worry about that stuff. They are throwbacks -- they went from daddy's bankroll to their husband's. They are like housecats. They can be smart, insightful, resourceful (sometimes scarily so), but they are also pretty useless and rely on others for every aspect of their care and feeding.

Yes, I think Daphne comes from money of some kind. She's not some plucky working class kid who lucked into marrying a rich finance bro. Those guys don't date Cinderellas, sorry.

Do you think teh only two options are "plucky working class kid" or WASP princess with rich parents who will take care of her and her kids if her marriage falls apart?

Either her parents could help her in a divorce or widow scenario or they can't. My money is on "can" just based on the general vibe I get from her and the things she's said. Daphne does not strike me as someone who has put all her eggs into her marriage basket. I think she has backup options and I absolutely think her family of origin is one of them -- I would find it very surprising if not unbelievable to discover she didn't, based on having met many, many women like this over the years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harper will seduce Cam. She is done, she she’s her marriage and relationship for what it is. Roommates. She’s too young for that.

Yes, Harper is both attracted to/repulsed by Cameron and I definitely think they will hook up

Cameron feels entitled to any woman he wants and he wants Harper because it's a way to assert dominance over Ethan. Yes it might mess up the investment - he isn't thinking about it logically. If he was that good at his job he wouldn't be in whatever financial trouble he is currently in

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand people who stan Daphne. Her marriage is a horrible shit show. Getting knocked up by your trainer and passing it off as your husband’s is not some cool power play. If she ever gets found out, she’d ruin that kid’s life.

OMG is that why she showed Harper the picture of the kids rather than the trainer?

I don’t think so. She talked about the trainer to make herself out as not being a victim. She may or may not have a trainer she sleeps with, but at the end of the day, it’s her kids who give her the motivation to get over whatever Cameron does and not focus on it.

Eh, she says my trainer has blond hair and blue eyes, want to see a picture? Then shows a picture of a blond haired kid. Cameron has brown hair. Google it.

https://www.today.com/popculture/tv/white-lotus-season-2-daphne-trainer-kids-theory-rcna59147

She’s calling the kid her trainer. She’s making some innuendo about her life, that she’s not a victim because she can do whatever Cameron is doing and have sex with whomever she wants. She makes that point to Harper. Then when she shows her the picture, it’s her kids- the point is that she doesn’t want to cheat, that’s not what actually makes her feel better about it. She just wants her happy, very comfortable life with her kids and her husband. People are reading way into this. Her trainer did not father her children.

Also, even if Cameron had brown eyes, hasn’t anyone ever heard of recessive genes? My dad has blue eyes and my mom has brown. I’m one of four kids and only one of us have brown eyes. The rest of us have blue and green.

I think you and I are the only ones that see this in this thread. I tack it up to personal life experience and age. Sigh.

The scene is purposefully ambiguous. They had her go on and on about this adorable trainer with blonde hair and blue eyes, two recessive genes. And then show a photo of a blonde haired blue eyed kid. I'm not SURE the trainer is the dad, but the show is clearly leaving the ambiguity there, putting the question out there. This is a show where all the background choices are dripping in meaning. There is a photo of St. Lucia in one of the rooms.

GOOD LORD!! Daphne has light hair and blue eyes. Cameron only has to carry the recessive gene for blue eyes and they can definitely have blonde hair and blue-eyed kids.

I'm a brunette woman with two teenage blonde blue-eyed sons that definitely came from me. My husband is blonde. A blonde/red-head and a brunette can definitely make a blonde kid---and many of these kids are blonde as kids that turn darker as they get older.

People assume dark hair is dominant, but my sister also has two blonde kids and one brunette and her hair is jet black. Her husband is a blonde.

Yeah that is why I said it is AMBIGUOUS. Do you know what the word ambiguous means? The show is basically swimming in ambiguity but when they want something to be clear they do show it (ie we know Ethan did not cheat on Harper that night with Cameron).

I'm not saying the kids aren't Cameron's, I'm saying the scene is ambiguous. Are you also the poster that thinks the only way people can love each other is sunshine and rainbows and happiness and Daphne is just some poor lovestuck lady crying herself to sleep every night?

No. I'm the person saying Cameron and Daphne love each other--even with his flaws and infidelity.

Well then we agree on that! But I honestly don't see how anyone could not at least acknowledge that the scene was intentionally ambiguous. It was a pivotal scene where Daphne was being vague. It could mean anything.

BUT I don't think it has any bearing on the deaths for two reasons.

1) The whole point Daphne is making is, IMO, immaterial to whether she is having an affair or whether she gets her purpose from her kids. Her point is that she sees Cameron for who he is and instead of letting it ruin her, she does what she wants and lives how she wants and copes with this unhappiness by getting fulfillment elsewhere. It isn't important who the father is or if there is or isn't a trainer. Her point is that she finds a way, and Harper can find a way too, and that they, as women, shouldn't depend on imperfect men to determine their lives and happiness.

2) I don't think the conflict that results in a death will be between Daphne and Cameron. They have both decided that they can handle their demons and suppress their unhappiness to be together. Neither has unresolved anger towards each other. It is processed accepted and dealt with. Unlike say Harper and Ethan who have an elephant of tension standing in the room with them. Cameron and Daphne don't have that. I think the only thing that could send them over the edge is Cameron being broke, but I honestly still think she would likely just join him in trying to pull a scam rather than walk away. Daphne has coping mechanisms and uses them. I think she's capable of murder honestly, but I don't think she has any desire to murder him

I didn't find that scene ambiguous in the least. I do find it really interesting that people are making up an entire psyche for Daphne where she makes up an entire other person as a symbol for her kids instead of just talking about her kids. What she did was not vague at all. It was very intentional. She's not foggy or confused. She's actually very focused.

And when they went to Noto Daphne was crystal clear that her motivation for staying overnight was to mess with/punish Cameron. All this romanticism that she's so sweet and just really lives for her kids so she couldn't be having an affair is a backstory we haven't seen other than her wanting to call her kids again. It can be both.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I disagree it's that straightforward. Sure, maybe that will be Daphne... but what will happen to Cameron in that situation? If he's not a saver and he's broke, then if he divorces Daphne he will truly have nothing at all -- no gorgeous wife, no kids, no money. And if he doesn't have money, how does he get the rest back? If his power lies in his money, and he's broke, and he didn't save for a rainy day... Cameron is screwed. Daphne has a very winning personality and I think it's more likely she lands on her feet, likely with help from her parents.

And while I agree in general that Albie is likely to make it out of this situation unscathed, I do think Lucia has real power because she is reading Dom pretty well. I absolutely think she has plans to gently blackmail him for cash to bankroll her own dreams. Whether this backfires or not is up in the air -- blackmail is dangerous. But Lucia is using her position of transactional intimacy in order to collect information and access, and she is at least attempting to play it to her advantage. I do think she has some power, the question is whether it will be enough to overcome the power Dom has. Dom is rich but has a fatal flaw, which is his weakness for sex and women. He is vulnerable.

Similarly, Mia is using her charm and attractiveness to wheedle job opportunities. And she has real talent. Is this massive power? No, but she's going to work it for all she's got.

I think one point of this season is that there are more kinds of power than just money or being a man. Women DO have power. Smart, insightful people DO have power. It takes more work and creativity to wield it than just being a rich white guy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Seriously, WHERE are you getting this from? We know nothing about Daphne’s background. The notion that her parents will surely be able to help is based on NOTHING.

Her parents are the ones watching the kids while they're in Italy (Daphne mentions this in an early episode when she talks about talking to the kids before bed and how much she misses them), so her parents are in the picture and stable and with it enough to take care of a couple small kids for like 10 days? Two weeks?

In other words, I'm getting this from watching the show we're talking about.

The vacation is a week. Caring for two children for one week is quite different from taking on financial responsibility for a grown woman and two children. If Cameron goes broke and her parents aren't all that financially well off, she will be in a bad situation quite quickly and the rosy picture you're painting of her life seems unlikely. What skills and education does Daphne have? Did she ever work? Why don't you make up some more stuff about her backstory out of whole cloth, so that your little fantasy of her works out?

Hi. Calm the eff down. It is a television show, I am speculating about a fictional character for fun and because it is interesting. The whole point is that you can read what you want into things and there are no "right" answers. I disagreed with your assertion that Daphne would be screwed without Cameron -- my impression of her character is that she is resourceful and has better interpersonal skills that Cameron, and seems to have a good relationship with her parents from what we've seen. Cameron seems like an a$$hole who burns bridges, treats even those closest to him like dirt, and gets caught up in toxic pissing matches to a point of self-destruction. So yes, my money is on Daphne having more resilience than Cameron.

You are welcome to have a different take, and welcome to share it here. But berating people for "making up" stuff about FICTIONAL CHARACTERS, like there's some rule you can't speculate about the imaginary backgrounds about imaginary people, is ridiculous. Grow up.

Hi. I'm calm. I just think your speculations are specious. Grow up? I'm not the one playing make believe here.

We're all "playing make believe." It's a fictional show. No one can be totally wrong about these characters' backgrounds, motivations, or futures because those things aren't real and never will be. Everything in this thread is an interpretation of the "text" -- the dialogue and the portrayals by the actors and the way the show is edited and shot. One person can have a "rosy picture" of a character and another can see something deeply sinister or sad, and neither are right or wrong. It's all just interpretation and opinion.

You can disagree with someone's interpretation but you can't accuse them of being wrong. There is no right/wrong in this game. It's all make believe, though we can draw what we believe to be truth from the make believe.

There's just no evidence that Daphne comes from a rich background or has a trust fund.

Disagree there is no evidence that Daphne comes from money. For me, she has a very strong vibe of someone who has never really had to worry about money before, who is very comfortable around wealth and spending money, and has that air of total detachment from the workaday world that people usually only get if they have never really had to work for a living. I definitely get the sense that she is from, if not wealth, a UMC background. She reminds me of women I have known who grew up the favorite daughter of doctors or lawyers in midwestern cities where that money goes a long way. Very nice public schools if not private schools (usually Catholic but sometimes not), college paid for at a place like Vassar, Notre Dame, a Seven Sister, Baird, maybe Reed if they are crunchy. Maybe grad school (a masters or law school, not med school even if they have a doctor for a parent because med school is hard and long and a huge commitment and these women are used to a softer life). Then a brief professional career in a city like NY, Boston, DC, SF, LA, Chicago, Houston, Miami, or Atlanta. Ideally a city where there are a good number of young men working in finance, law, consulting, or on a corporate ladder. The goal is to marry one of those, have a couple kids, get the big house and the nice vacations to exclusive resorts with first class airfare. They have carefully curated IG feeds that go from world travels with their hot, successful boyfriend/fiance, to world travels with their new family of three or four. They are "foodies" (#michlinstar), they all have at least one hobby that is really an excuse to exercise to stay hot and also get out aggression. Preferably as part of an exercise cult -- they don't do yoga at home or just hit the gym alone, they are SolidCore devotees or they talk about their trainer all the time (ahem) or they've taken up something nice like aerial silks or pole dancing, which they feel makes them more interesting and distinguishes themselves from the other rich finance/law/consultant wives. They might pretend to care about politics or feminism, but these things have no real bearing on their lives, so it's always a feint. They've never really had to worry about that stuff. They are throwbacks -- they went from daddy's bankroll to their husband's. They are like housecats. They can be smart, insightful, resourceful (sometimes scarily so), but they are also pretty useless and rely on others for every aspect of their care and feeding.

Yes, I think Daphne comes from money of some kind. She's not some plucky working class kid who lucked into marrying a rich finance bro. Those guys don't date Cinderellas, sorry.

lol they totally do, I am one of them. My parents worked as a waitress and mechanic for most of my childhood. Eventually climbed into the middle class with municipal jobs. I got a partial scholarship to an elite university and met my future husband there.

I wouldn't call UMC in a small city rich though. If your scenario is correct Daphne wouldn't have grown up vacationing at the Four Seasons around the world. Her kids will though, which is a big difference.

[Anonymous]

I have a feeling Ethan is getting ready to embark on an alternative career path (perhaps something in organic food preparation/baking, renewable energy, autonomous vehicles, etc.) and that Albie and/or Portia will play a role in it.

Does anyone get the sense Daphne is hiding something? Not she is actually a man, but more that she has sometimes imagined herself as a man, or man-like, and all that would entail.

And that hotel manager! Girl get off your meds! Ring any bells?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are the gays conning Tanya and Portia? How did they get theater tickets and hotel rooms etc?

They need a big donation to keep maintaining the beauty of the old property.

Unf they should charge the public or host $500k weddings there

+1. I think it's a Dirty Rotten Scoundrels type con.

[Anonymous]

The actress herself has spoken on the scene. Her character is definitely having an affair with the trainer. What was meant to be ambiguous was whether he fathered her kids or not.

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand people who stan Daphne. Her marriage is a horrible shit show. Getting knocked up by your trainer and passing it off as your husband’s is not some cool power play. If she ever gets found out, she’d ruin that kid’s life.

OMG is that why she showed Harper the picture of the kids rather than the trainer?

I don’t think so. She talked about the trainer to make herself out as not being a victim. She may or may not have a trainer she sleeps with, but at the end of the day, it’s her kids who give her the motivation to get over whatever Cameron does and not focus on it.

Eh, she says my trainer has blond hair and blue eyes, want to see a picture? Then shows a picture of a blond haired kid. Cameron has brown hair. Google it.

https://www.today.com/popculture/tv/white-lotus-season-2-daphne-trainer-kids-theory-rcna59147

She’s calling the kid her trainer. She’s making some innuendo about her life, that she’s not a victim because she can do whatever Cameron is doing and have sex with whomever she wants. She makes that point to Harper. Then when she shows her the picture, it’s her kids- the point is that she doesn’t want to cheat, that’s not what actually makes her feel better about it. She just wants her happy, very comfortable life with her kids and her husband. People are reading way into this. Her trainer did not father her children.

Also, even if Cameron had brown eyes, hasn’t anyone ever heard of recessive genes? My dad has blue eyes and my mom has brown. I’m one of four kids and only one of us have brown eyes. The rest of us have blue and green.

I think you and I are the only ones that see this in this thread. I tack it up to personal life experience and age. Sigh.

The scene is purposefully ambiguous. They had her go on and on about this adorable trainer with blonde hair and blue eyes, two recessive genes. And then show a photo of a blonde haired blue eyed kid. I'm not SURE the trainer is the dad, but the show is clearly leaving the ambiguity there, putting the question out there. This is a show where all the background choices are dripping in meaning. There is a photo of St. Lucia in one of the rooms.

GOOD LORD!! Daphne has light hair and blue eyes. Cameron only has to carry the recessive gene for blue eyes and they can definitely have blonde hair and blue-eyed kids.

I'm a brunette woman with two teenage blonde blue-eyed sons that definitely came from me. My husband is blonde. A blonde/red-head and a brunette can definitely make a blonde kid---and many of these kids are blonde as kids that turn darker as they get older.

People assume dark hair is dominant, but my sister also has two blonde kids and one brunette and her hair is jet black. Her husband is a blonde.

Yeah that is why I said it is AMBIGUOUS. Do you know what the word ambiguous means? The show is basically swimming in ambiguity but when they want something to be clear they do show it (ie we know Ethan did not cheat on Harper that night with Cameron).

I'm not saying the kids aren't Cameron's, I'm saying the scene is ambiguous. Are you also the poster that thinks the only way people can love each other is sunshine and rainbows and happiness and Daphne is just some poor lovestuck lady crying herself to sleep every night?

No. I'm the person saying Cameron and Daphne love each other--even with his flaws and infidelity.

Well then we agree on that! But I honestly don't see how anyone could not at least acknowledge that the scene was intentionally ambiguous. It was a pivotal scene where Daphne was being vague. It could mean anything.

BUT I don't think it has any bearing on the deaths for two reasons.

1) The whole point Daphne is making is, IMO, immaterial to whether she is having an affair or whether she gets her purpose from her kids. Her point is that she sees Cameron for who he is and instead of letting it ruin her, she does what she wants and lives how she wants and copes with this unhappiness by getting fulfillment elsewhere. It isn't important who the father is or if there is or isn't a trainer. Her point is that she finds a way, and Harper can find a way too, and that they, as women, shouldn't depend on imperfect men to determine their lives and happiness.

2) I don't think the conflict that results in a death will be between Daphne and Cameron. They have both decided that they can handle their demons and suppress their unhappiness to be together. Neither has unresolved anger towards each other. It is processed accepted and dealt with. Unlike say Harper and Ethan who have an elephant of tension standing in the room with them. Cameron and Daphne don't have that. I think the only thing that could send them over the edge is Cameron being broke, but I honestly still think she would likely just join him in trying to pull a scam rather than walk away. Daphne has coping mechanisms and uses them. I think she's capable of murder honestly, but I don't think she has any desire to murder him

I didn't find that scene ambiguous in the least. I do find it really interesting that people are making up an entire psyche for Daphne where she makes up an entire other person as a symbol for her kids instead of just talking about her kids. What she did was not vague at all. It was very intentional. She's not foggy or confused. She's actually very focused.

And when they went to Noto Daphne was crystal clear that her motivation for staying overnight was to mess with/punish Cameron. All this romanticism that she's so sweet and just really lives for her kids so she couldn't be having an affair is a backstory we haven't seen other than her wanting to call her kids again. It can be both.

I love how suggesting that they Facetime the kids one time (and not actually doing it!) has made her supermom in the eyes of DCUM. She has a new(ish?) baby and has jetted off to Italy for a week+ leaving the two little kids with the grandparents. I'm not saying that makes her a bad mom or anything but it's not "my kids are my whole life" behavior

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand what Cameron thinks he's doing by trying to get with Harper if he also wants Ethan to invest his money with him. Can he just not stop himself? Or does he think this is a mindgame that will keep Ethan subservient to him somehow like in college? I don't think it would -- I think it would make Ethan want to stay far, far away from him. And I'd expect someone like Cameron who makes his living the way he does (especially if it's by scamming people) to have more emotional intelligence than that.

It just doesn't make sense to me. It could blow up the whole trip and their whole relationship and doesn't seem like it could lead to anything positive for an ultimate end result for him. So why is he risking it? Is he just stupid?

Not to get all Psychology 101, but I think you just described the id.

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Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I disagree it's that straightforward. Sure, maybe that will be Daphne... but what will happen to Cameron in that situation? If he's not a saver and he's broke, then if he divorces Daphne he will truly have nothing at all -- no gorgeous wife, no kids, no money. And if he doesn't have money, how does he get the rest back? If his power lies in his money, and he's broke, and he didn't save for a rainy day... Cameron is screwed. Daphne has a very winning personality and I think it's more likely she lands on her feet, likely with help from her parents.

And while I agree in general that Albie is likely to make it out of this situation unscathed, I do think Lucia has real power because she is reading Dom pretty well. I absolutely think she has plans to gently blackmail him for cash to bankroll her own dreams. Whether this backfires or not is up in the air -- blackmail is dangerous. But Lucia is using her position of transactional intimacy in order to collect information and access, and she is at least attempting to play it to her advantage. I do think she has some power, the question is whether it will be enough to overcome the power Dom has. Dom is rich but has a fatal flaw, which is his weakness for sex and women. He is vulnerable.

Similarly, Mia is using her charm and attractiveness to wheedle job opportunities. And she has real talent. Is this massive power? No, but she's going to work it for all she's got.

I think one point of this season is that there are more kinds of power than just money or being a man. Women DO have power. Smart, insightful people DO have power. It takes more work and creativity to wield it than just being a rich white guy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Seriously, WHERE are you getting this from? We know nothing about Daphne’s background. The notion that her parents will surely be able to help is based on NOTHING.

Her parents are the ones watching the kids while they're in Italy (Daphne mentions this in an early episode when she talks about talking to the kids before bed and how much she misses them), so her parents are in the picture and stable and with it enough to take care of a couple small kids for like 10 days? Two weeks?

In other words, I'm getting this from watching the show we're talking about.

The vacation is a week. Caring for two children for one week is quite different from taking on financial responsibility for a grown woman and two children. If Cameron goes broke and her parents aren't all that financially well off, she will be in a bad situation quite quickly and the rosy picture you're painting of her life seems unlikely. What skills and education does Daphne have? Did she ever work? Why don't you make up some more stuff about her backstory out of whole cloth, so that your little fantasy of her works out?

Hi. Calm the eff down. It is a television show, I am speculating about a fictional character for fun and because it is interesting. The whole point is that you can read what you want into things and there are no "right" answers. I disagreed with your assertion that Daphne would be screwed without Cameron -- my impression of her character is that she is resourceful and has better interpersonal skills that Cameron, and seems to have a good relationship with her parents from what we've seen. Cameron seems like an a$$hole who burns bridges, treats even those closest to him like dirt, and gets caught up in toxic pissing matches to a point of self-destruction. So yes, my money is on Daphne having more resilience than Cameron.

You are welcome to have a different take, and welcome to share it here. But berating people for "making up" stuff about FICTIONAL CHARACTERS, like there's some rule you can't speculate about the imaginary backgrounds about imaginary people, is ridiculous. Grow up.

DP. She's definitely more savvy and resourceful than Cameron. And she has EQ by the boatload, a good heart.

Agree.

Daphne is actually the most mature, centered, authentic character in the show. And wholesome.

Do we even know if she has or had a job? I’d love it if she came from money, had a prenup, took a startup public and is a min and volunteer now.

If you are saying this stuff, I hope you are a therapist or that you have a good one.

Is it just one poster that's married to a Cameron or are there a few of you?

[Anonymous]

Ethan is a really interesting character to me. It's hard to tell what his real personality is - he was obviously a totally different guy with Harper during their early marriage and courtship than he was with Cameron in college. It seems like he didn't have strong personality of his own, and turned into whoever the people around him wanted him to be. But now with all this money he doesn't have to go along to get along - who will he turn into?

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Anonymous wrote:I’m LOLing at the idea that some of you have that Daphne or Lucia have more power than the men. Open your eyes. Cameron is not a saver. He makes a lot but clearly spends a lot too. He’s dodging paying Lucia the money he owes her probably because he knows he doesn’t have enough to cover it. If he and Daphne get divorced, she’ll be the typical cliche. A formerly pretty, now middle aged, housewife on the prowl for husband #2 before her alimony runs out. If she can’t find one, she’ll have to become a realtor or secretary or cashier. something desperate like that.

And Albie is leaving Italy within the week to go back to his bright future as a Stanford grad with rich parents. Lucia has no power over him. She’ll stay in Sicily, getting older and older, losing her looks, trying to make money through sex.

Cynical? Yeah but this is what real life is like. At the end of the day, wealth and gender finger power.

I disagree it's that straightforward. Sure, maybe that will be Daphne... but what will happen to Cameron in that situation? If he's not a saver and he's broke, then if he divorces Daphne he will truly have nothing at all -- no gorgeous wife, no kids, no money. And if he doesn't have money, how does he get the rest back? If his power lies in his money, and he's broke, and he didn't save for a rainy day... Cameron is screwed. Daphne has a very winning personality and I think it's more likely she lands on her feet, likely with help from her parents.

And while I agree in general that Albie is likely to make it out of this situation unscathed, I do think Lucia has real power because she is reading Dom pretty well. I absolutely think she has plans to gently blackmail him for cash to bankroll her own dreams. Whether this backfires or not is up in the air -- blackmail is dangerous. But Lucia is using her position of transactional intimacy in order to collect information and access, and she is at least attempting to play it to her advantage. I do think she has some power, the question is whether it will be enough to overcome the power Dom has. Dom is rich but has a fatal flaw, which is his weakness for sex and women. He is vulnerable.

Similarly, Mia is using her charm and attractiveness to wheedle job opportunities. And she has real talent. Is this massive power? No, but she's going to work it for all she's got.

I think one point of this season is that there are more kinds of power than just money or being a man. Women DO have power. Smart, insightful people DO have power. It takes more work and creativity to wield it than just being a rich white guy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Seriously, WHERE are you getting this from? We know nothing about Daphne’s background. The notion that her parents will surely be able to help is based on NOTHING.

Her parents are the ones watching the kids while they're in Italy (Daphne mentions this in an early episode when she talks about talking to the kids before bed and how much she misses them), so her parents are in the picture and stable and with it enough to take care of a couple small kids for like 10 days? Two weeks?

In other words, I'm getting this from watching the show we're talking about.

The vacation is a week. Caring for two children for one week is quite different from taking on financial responsibility for a grown woman and two children. If Cameron goes broke and her parents aren't all that financially well off, she will be in a bad situation quite quickly and the rosy picture you're painting of her life seems unlikely. What skills and education does Daphne have? Did she ever work? Why don't you make up some more stuff about her backstory out of whole cloth, so that your little fantasy of her works out?

Hi. Calm the eff down. It is a television show, I am speculating about a fictional character for fun and because it is interesting. The whole point is that you can read what you want into things and there are no "right" answers. I disagreed with your assertion that Daphne would be screwed without Cameron -- my impression of her character is that she is resourceful and has better interpersonal skills that Cameron, and seems to have a good relationship with her parents from what we've seen. Cameron seems like an a$$hole who burns bridges, treats even those closest to him like dirt, and gets caught up in toxic pissing matches to a point of self-destruction. So yes, my money is on Daphne having more resilience than Cameron.

You are welcome to have a different take, and welcome to share it here. But berating people for "making up" stuff about FICTIONAL CHARACTERS, like there's some rule you can't speculate about the imaginary backgrounds about imaginary people, is ridiculous. Grow up.

Hi. I'm calm. I just think your speculations are specious. Grow up? I'm not the one playing make believe here.

We're all "playing make believe." It's a fictional show. No one can be totally wrong about these characters' backgrounds, motivations, or futures because those things aren't real and never will be. Everything in this thread is an interpretation of the "text" -- the dialogue and the portrayals by the actors and the way the show is edited and shot. One person can have a "rosy picture" of a character and another can see something deeply sinister or sad, and neither are right or wrong. It's all just interpretation and opinion.

You can disagree with someone's interpretation but you can't accuse them of being wrong. There is no right/wrong in this game. It's all make believe, though we can draw what we believe to be truth from the make believe.

There's just no evidence that Daphne comes from a rich background or has a trust fund.

Disagree there is no evidence that Daphne comes from money. For me, she has a very strong vibe of someone who has never really had to worry about money before, who is very comfortable around wealth and spending money, and has that air of total detachment from the workaday world that people usually only get if they have never really had to work for a living. I definitely get the sense that she is from, if not wealth, a UMC background. She reminds me of women I have known who grew up the favorite daughter of doctors or lawyers in midwestern cities where that money goes a long way. Very nice public schools if not private schools (usually Catholic but sometimes not), college paid for at a place like Vassar, Notre Dame, a Seven Sister, Baird, maybe Reed if they are crunchy. Maybe grad school (a masters or law school, not med school even if they have a doctor for a parent because med school is hard and long and a huge commitment and these women are used to a softer life). Then a brief professional career in a city like NY, Boston, DC, SF, LA, Chicago, Houston, Miami, or Atlanta. Ideally a city where there are a good number of young men working in finance, law, consulting, or on a corporate ladder. The goal is to marry one of those, have a couple kids, get the big house and the nice vacations to exclusive resorts with first class airfare. They have carefully curated IG feeds that go from world travels with their hot, successful boyfriend/fiance, to world travels with their new family of three or four. They are "foodies" (#michlinstar), they all have at least one hobby that is really an excuse to exercise to stay hot and also get out aggression. Preferably as part of an exercise cult -- they don't do yoga at home or just hit the gym alone, they are SolidCore devotees or they talk about their trainer all the time (ahem) or they've taken up something nice like aerial silks or pole dancing, which they feel makes them more interesting and distinguishes themselves from the other rich finance/law/consultant wives. They might pretend to care about politics or feminism, but these things have no real bearing on their lives, so it's always a feint. They've never really had to worry about that stuff. They are throwbacks -- they went from daddy's bankroll to their husband's. They are like housecats. They can be smart, insightful, resourceful (sometimes scarily so), but they are also pretty useless and rely on others for every aspect of their care and feeding.

Yes, I think Daphne comes from money of some kind. She's not some plucky working class kid who lucked into marrying a rich finance bro. Those guys don't date Cinderellas, sorry.

There's a lot in between "comes from money" and plucky working class kid. The above describes the background of about 75-80% of the women I grew up or went to college with. I can think of one of them that actually comes from money. The rest of your post describes some women I am sure, but it a whole lot of projection.