Woman charged with felony for having a stillbirth

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am still confused by all the details. I think that charging her was absolutely the wrong thing to do, and the police and prosecutor who participated in bringing those charges are doing absolutely the wrong thing.

However, I am not totally understanding the hatred being directed at the nurse. It seems to be based on three things.

1) She referred to the fetus as a baby. Which people do all the time. I am 100% pro choice. I do not think a fetus has the same status or rights as a born child. But I absolutely told my DH "Ooh, the baby is kicking" and my older child "There is a baby growing in mommy's tummy". Colloquially, lots of people use the word "baby" to refer to fetuses.

2) She called 911 about the claim that the remains fetus were in a bucket outside. To me, a fetal remains, or at least those that are far enough along to appear human in a bucket outside are a problem. They might be a problem because the medical team might want to test to them to see why the fetus died. They might be a problem, because no one wants a wild animal dragging that through your yard. They might be a problem because someone could be exposed to medical waste and potential germs. They might be a problem, because once she was past the trauma, Brittany Watts, who sounds like she was pretty dissociated and probably very out of it from blood loss, might have wanted to choose how to dispose of them. And, since I'm unclear what the nurse knew in the moment about the previous admissions, and the length of gestation, and the medical picture, might have been a problem because if she wasn't 100% sure that the fetus was delivered dead, then there was a responsibility to investigate. So, sending someone to the house to secure the bucket and investigate, and maybe look in the toilet once it was determined that the baby wasn't in the bucket, makes sense to me. And I don't know, other than 911, who you call to do that. So, in that moment, that might have been who I called.

I like to think that where I live, in Maryland, you could call police to help a woman secure the remains of her miscarriage, for burial or medical testing, without that woman then having her charged with a crime, and before this I wouldn't even have occurred to me that I was putting her at risk of being charged with a crime. So, I guess I am saying that while I think the prosecutor and the police are awful human beings, I'm going to withhold judgment on this nurse.

Now, if it turns out that there is a timeline where the nurse reviewed all the medical documentation before she made that call, or she was involved in previous medical care and so knew without a doubt that the fetus was dead, that might change my mind.

But, otherwise, I'm going to ask. Before you read about this case. If you were suddenly faced with a bleeding disoriented woman who may not have seemed like a reliable narrator (trauma and blood loss will do that) who was far enough along in a pregnancy that the baby might have been viable, and said that she had delivered a baby, but didn't have a baby or corpse with her, and said that the body was in her backyard unprotected, what would you do?

I would review her medical chart which would clearly say that she had a miscarriage.

Which doesn't address what I wrote. If you knew someone had a miscarriage, and you thought a fetus old enough to look human was unsecured in their backyard, what is the appropriate thing to do? At that point, you don't know what the woman who miscarried will want to do with it. You don't know if the medical team will want it for testing. You don't know if some dog is going to drag it into the next door neighbor's yard where their children are playing.

Having someone retrieve the fetal remains, and secure them, seems reasonable to me. I can believe that, and not believe she should have been arrested.

I would talk to patient about the need to get the remains out of the way and ask if she wanted to have the, tested and then indicate Inwas calling someone to go pick them up. Is t that what you would do, talk to the patient?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/itop97.pdf

I would suggest you follow the law of your state (ohio in this case) and do
your job correctly and maintain your nursing license/medical license.

We know you all think you can do whatever you want, but in the real world medical professionals have rules to follow mandated by law.

“reporting” means filling out a form, not calling the police.

The nurse was told by the mother that the dead baby was outside of her home in a bucket. You can’t be so dumb to think that is an acceptable place for the body of a dead baby? You think the doctor should write down that the baby was left outside in a bucket and that would be acceptable? You are really off your rocker if you think that’s ok. I suppose if your neighbor gave birth to a stillborn baby and placed it outside, you and your kids would want to walk by the baby in the bucket? Wild animals attracted to blood and a decaying human body would eventually come consume the baby possibly.

Tell me how any of that is acceptable to you as a human being, and tell me how the state medical board would receive your report of a baby discarded publicly anywhere but in this case a residential neighborhood outside a home?

I really think some of you are trolling. This is not acceptable on any level.

You don’t call the police on everything you deem “unacceptable.” And in fact no, I don’t deem it unacceptable, any more than if she flushed an 18 week pregnancy. I think policing what women do with a miscarriage based on your personal sense of disgust is unacceptable.

It’s called state law you doughnut.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am still confused by all the details. I think that charging her was absolutely the wrong thing to do, and the police and prosecutor who participated in bringing those charges are doing absolutely the wrong thing.

However, I am not totally understanding the hatred being directed at the nurse. It seems to be based on three things.

1) She referred to the fetus as a baby. Which people do all the time. I am 100% pro choice. I do not think a fetus has the same status or rights as a born child. But I absolutely told my DH "Ooh, the baby is kicking" and my older child "There is a baby growing in mommy's tummy". Colloquially, lots of people use the word "baby" to refer to fetuses.

2) She called 911 about the claim that the remains fetus were in a bucket outside. To me, a fetal remains, or at least those that are far enough along to appear human in a bucket outside are a problem. They might be a problem because the medical team might want to test to them to see why the fetus died. They might be a problem, because no one wants a wild animal dragging that through your yard. They might be a problem because someone could be exposed to medical waste and potential germs. They might be a problem, because once she was past the trauma, Brittany Watts, who sounds like she was pretty dissociated and probably very out of it from blood loss, might have wanted to choose how to dispose of them. And, since I'm unclear what the nurse knew in the moment about the previous admissions, and the length of gestation, and the medical picture, might have been a problem because if she wasn't 100% sure that the fetus was delivered dead, then there was a responsibility to investigate. So, sending someone to the house to secure the bucket and investigate, and maybe look in the toilet once it was determined that the baby wasn't in the bucket, makes sense to me. And I don't know, other than 911, who you call to do that. So, in that moment, that might have been who I called.

I like to think that where I live, in Maryland, you could call police to help a woman secure the remains of her miscarriage, for burial or medical testing, without that woman then having her charged with a crime, and before this I wouldn't even have occurred to me that I was putting her at risk of being charged with a crime. So, I guess I am saying that while I think the prosecutor and the police are awful human beings, I'm going to withhold judgment on this nurse.

Now, if it turns out that there is a timeline where the nurse reviewed all the medical documentation before she made that call, or she was involved in previous medical care and so knew without a doubt that the fetus was dead, that might change my mind.

But, otherwise, I'm going to ask. Before you read about this case. If you were suddenly faced with a bleeding disoriented woman who may not have seemed like a reliable narrator (trauma and blood loss will do that) who was far enough along in a pregnancy that the baby might have been viable, and said that she had delivered a baby, but didn't have a baby or corpse with her, and said that the body was in her backyard unprotected, what would you do?

I would review her medical chart which would clearly say that she had a miscarriage.

And then say ooopsie, a dead baby is sitting in a bucket in a residential neighborhood, whatever. You would not attempt to locate a dead baby in a bucket? What would you write down about the baby? It disappeared? Make sure you are adhering to Ohio state law because you can lose your ability to practice and make a living if you do not.

Did she tell the patient, I’m going to call someone who can go pick up the remains in the bucket so we can get it out of the way and test them if you want to have them tested?

No, answer the question. You are reviewing her chart. Where is the dead baby?

The Catholic hospital offered her medical treatment even though her baby still had a heartbeat. That shows the doctors knew the patient was very sick. Her baby still had a heartbeat, but the baby would not survive, and the patient needed urgent treatment. She left after they offered her medical care and then a second time after offering her medical care again. But somehow they are the monsters. Oh and the nurse is a monster because she did her job. And the dead baby plunged down the toilet is a monster too, for just existing.

The nurse isn’t a monster but she engaged in malpractice here. The hospital, being Catholic, almost certainly delayed her care longer than necessary. The Ohio legislature is a monster for passing the laws against abortion. The prosecutor and judge are definitely monsters. Interesting that you, alone among pretty much everyone looking at this case, thinks the moster here is the sick woman.

+100000

how did the nurse engage in malpractice?

Malpractice is the wrong legal cause of action - it would be for making false reports to law enforcement, similar to lawsuits by parents falsely reported for child abuse. I would 100% file this lawsuit if I were Brittany.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am still confused by all the details. I think that charging her was absolutely the wrong thing to do, and the police and prosecutor who participated in bringing those charges are doing absolutely the wrong thing.

However, I am not totally understanding the hatred being directed at the nurse. It seems to be based on three things.

1) She referred to the fetus as a baby. Which people do all the time. I am 100% pro choice. I do not think a fetus has the same status or rights as a born child. But I absolutely told my DH "Ooh, the baby is kicking" and my older child "There is a baby growing in mommy's tummy". Colloquially, lots of people use the word "baby" to refer to fetuses.

2) She called 911 about the claim that the remains fetus were in a bucket outside. To me, a fetal remains, or at least those that are far enough along to appear human in a bucket outside are a problem. They might be a problem because the medical team might want to test to them to see why the fetus died. They might be a problem, because no one wants a wild animal dragging that through your yard. They might be a problem because someone could be exposed to medical waste and potential germs. They might be a problem, because once she was past the trauma, Brittany Watts, who sounds like she was pretty dissociated and probably very out of it from blood loss, might have wanted to choose how to dispose of them. And, since I'm unclear what the nurse knew in the moment about the previous admissions, and the length of gestation, and the medical picture, might have been a problem because if she wasn't 100% sure that the fetus was delivered dead, then there was a responsibility to investigate. So, sending someone to the house to secure the bucket and investigate, and maybe look in the toilet once it was determined that the baby wasn't in the bucket, makes sense to me. And I don't know, other than 911, who you call to do that. So, in that moment, that might have been who I called.

I like to think that where I live, in Maryland, you could call police to help a woman secure the remains of her miscarriage, for burial or medical testing, without that woman then having her charged with a crime, and before this I wouldn't even have occurred to me that I was putting her at risk of being charged with a crime. So, I guess I am saying that while I think the prosecutor and the police are awful human beings, I'm going to withhold judgment on this nurse.

Now, if it turns out that there is a timeline where the nurse reviewed all the medical documentation before she made that call, or she was involved in previous medical care and so knew without a doubt that the fetus was dead, that might change my mind.

But, otherwise, I'm going to ask. Before you read about this case. If you were suddenly faced with a bleeding disoriented woman who may not have seemed like a reliable narrator (trauma and blood loss will do that) who was far enough along in a pregnancy that the baby might have been viable, and said that she had delivered a baby, but didn't have a baby or corpse with her, and said that the body was in her backyard unprotected, what would you do?

I would review her medical chart which would clearly say that she had a miscarriage.

Which doesn't address what I wrote. If you knew someone had a miscarriage, and you thought a fetus old enough to look human was unsecured in their backyard, what is the appropriate thing to do? At that point, you don't know what the woman who miscarried will want to do with it. You don't know if the medical team will want it for testing. You don't know if some dog is going to drag it into the next door neighbor's yard where their children are playing.

Having someone retrieve the fetal remains, and secure them, seems reasonable to me. I can believe that, and not believe she should have been arrested.

I would talk to patient about the need to get the remains out of the way and ask if she wanted to have the, tested and then indicate Inwas calling someone to go pick them up. Is t that what you would do, talk to the patient?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/itop97.pdf

I would suggest you follow the law of your state (ohio in this case) and do
your job correctly and maintain your nursing license/medical license.

We know you all think you can do whatever you want, but in the real world medical professionals have rules to follow mandated by law.

“reporting” means filling out a form, not calling the police.

The nurse was told by the mother that the dead baby was outside of her home in a bucket. You can’t be so dumb to think that is an acceptable place for the body of a dead baby? You think the doctor should write down that the baby was left outside in a bucket and that would be acceptable? You are really off your rocker if you think that’s ok. I suppose if your neighbor gave birth to a stillborn baby and placed it outside, you and your kids would want to walk by the baby in the bucket? Wild animals attracted to blood and a decaying human body would eventually come consume the baby possibly.

Tell me how any of that is acceptable to you as a human being, and tell me how the state medical board would receive your report of a baby discarded publicly anywhere but in this case a residential neighborhood outside a home?

I really think some of you are trolling. This is not acceptable on any level.

You don’t call the police on everything you deem “unacceptable.” And in fact no, I don’t deem it unacceptable, any more than if she flushed an 18 week pregnancy. I think policing what women do with a miscarriage based on your personal sense of disgust is unacceptable.

It’s called state law you doughnut.

there is no state law that required her to call the police. the cite to the CDC was about reporting to the state vital records dept.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am still confused by all the details. I think that charging her was absolutely the wrong thing to do, and the police and prosecutor who participated in bringing those charges are doing absolutely the wrong thing.

However, I am not totally understanding the hatred being directed at the nurse. It seems to be based on three things.

1) She referred to the fetus as a baby. Which people do all the time. I am 100% pro choice. I do not think a fetus has the same status or rights as a born child. But I absolutely told my DH "Ooh, the baby is kicking" and my older child "There is a baby growing in mommy's tummy". Colloquially, lots of people use the word "baby" to refer to fetuses.

2) She called 911 about the claim that the remains fetus were in a bucket outside. To me, a fetal remains, or at least those that are far enough along to appear human in a bucket outside are a problem. They might be a problem because the medical team might want to test to them to see why the fetus died. They might be a problem, because no one wants a wild animal dragging that through your yard. They might be a problem because someone could be exposed to medical waste and potential germs. They might be a problem, because once she was past the trauma, Brittany Watts, who sounds like she was pretty dissociated and probably very out of it from blood loss, might have wanted to choose how to dispose of them. And, since I'm unclear what the nurse knew in the moment about the previous admissions, and the length of gestation, and the medical picture, might have been a problem because if she wasn't 100% sure that the fetus was delivered dead, then there was a responsibility to investigate. So, sending someone to the house to secure the bucket and investigate, and maybe look in the toilet once it was determined that the baby wasn't in the bucket, makes sense to me. And I don't know, other than 911, who you call to do that. So, in that moment, that might have been who I called.

I like to think that where I live, in Maryland, you could call police to help a woman secure the remains of her miscarriage, for burial or medical testing, without that woman then having her charged with a crime, and before this I wouldn't even have occurred to me that I was putting her at risk of being charged with a crime. So, I guess I am saying that while I think the prosecutor and the police are awful human beings, I'm going to withhold judgment on this nurse.

Now, if it turns out that there is a timeline where the nurse reviewed all the medical documentation before she made that call, or she was involved in previous medical care and so knew without a doubt that the fetus was dead, that might change my mind.

But, otherwise, I'm going to ask. Before you read about this case. If you were suddenly faced with a bleeding disoriented woman who may not have seemed like a reliable narrator (trauma and blood loss will do that) who was far enough along in a pregnancy that the baby might have been viable, and said that she had delivered a baby, but didn't have a baby or corpse with her, and said that the body was in her backyard unprotected, what would you do?

I would review her medical chart which would clearly say that she had a miscarriage.

Which doesn't address what I wrote. If you knew someone had a miscarriage, and you thought a fetus old enough to look human was unsecured in their backyard, what is the appropriate thing to do? At that point, you don't know what the woman who miscarried will want to do with it. You don't know if the medical team will want it for testing. You don't know if some dog is going to drag it into the next door neighbor's yard where their children are playing.

Having someone retrieve the fetal remains, and secure them, seems reasonable to me. I can believe that, and not believe she should have been arrested.

I would talk to patient about the need to get the remains out of the way and ask if she wanted to have the, tested and then indicate Inwas calling someone to go pick them up. Is t that what you would do, talk to the patient?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/itop97.pdf

I would suggest you follow the law of your state (ohio in this case) and do
your job correctly and maintain your nursing license/medical license.

We know you all think you can do whatever you want, but in the real world medical professionals have rules to follow mandated by law.

“reporting” means filling out a form, not calling the police.

The nurse was told by the mother that the dead baby was outside of her home in a bucket. You can’t be so dumb to think that is an acceptable place for the body of a dead baby? You think the doctor should write down that the baby was left outside in a bucket and that would be acceptable? You are really off your rocker if you think that’s ok. I suppose if your neighbor gave birth to a stillborn baby and placed it outside, you and your kids would want to walk by the baby in the bucket? Wild animals attracted to blood and a decaying human body would eventually come consume the baby possibly.

Tell me how any of that is acceptable to you as a human being, and tell me how the state medical board would receive your report of a baby discarded publicly anywhere but in this case a residential neighborhood outside a home?

I really think some of you are trolling. This is not acceptable on any level.

You don’t call the police on everything you deem “unacceptable.” And in fact no, I don’t deem it unacceptable, any more than if she flushed an 18 week pregnancy. I think policing what women do with a miscarriage based on your personal sense of disgust is unacceptable.

It’s called state law you doughnut.

Omg you just called someone a doughnut! I’m soooo using this as an insult from now on. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I feel for her. The last thing I’d want after giving birth (and a stillbirth at that) is to engage with any human, especially police officers. She must have been exhausted and emotionally distraught.

She went to an appointment with her hairdresser.

You've obviously never worked with victims of trauma before--or even done a basic google search on common trauma responses.

But besides all of that, I don't care if she left her home, hopped on a train and joined the Rockettes kickline at Radio City. It is insane to put a woman in jail for this alleged 'crime'.

“At one point, a physician advised Ms Watts that she should have her labour induced, a procedure that amounted to an abortion and would cause her to deliver the fetus but also put her at “significant risk” of death, according to those records obtained by the Associated Press.“

So the doctors at the hospital wanted to induce her and give her the abortion she needed, but she left the hospital.

Good lord you typed this out in the middle of your screed and don’t even seem to realize what you are saying.

Being induced for l&d which could put you at significant risk for death is NOT the same thing as getting a D&C which is fast and safer.

Are you this clueless about everything? Please share with us your near death experience giving birth or miscarrying

How is giving birth in a toilet, by yourself, safer?

A D&C is not giving birth in a toilet by yourself. Are you always this clueless?

I’m saying giving birth into a toilet isn’t safer than being in a hospital. She left AMA and birthed on her own. I’m asking how that’s safer. If the hospital was going to induce labor one would think that was far safer than doing it on your own.

If only they gave her that option.

Earlier that week, she was admitted twice to Mercy Health St. Joseph Warren Hospital when she experienced agonizing cramps and bleeding. (she was admitted to the hospital twice)

However, she left both times after waiting hours to see a doctor. (yes it takes time to see a doctor. The important thing was she was admitted to the hospital, in a hospital bed with medical professionals monitoring her condition. A doctor signed an order to have her admitted. The doctor who would be in charge of her treatment would be a different doctor. That’s how hospitals work. This woman was hiding her pregnancy from her family and couldn’t stay in a hospital because her family would ask where she was.)

Following the miscarriage, which she suffered at just over 22 weeks pregnant, Watts flushed the toilet.

When the toilet overflowed, she used a bucket to clean up. As she did not want anyone to know about the pregnancy, Watts then went to the salon for a hair appointment.

But the hairdresser was concerned and called her mother. Watts was taken to the hospital, where a nurse phoned 911.

According to transcripts, the nurse told a dispatcher that Watts was sent to the hospital earlier that week with bleeding and left ‘against medical advice.’

‘She came back in on Wednesday still bleeding and said, “Maybe I do need to be seen.” So we readmitted her and we were talking her through everything and she disappeared,’ the nurse said.

She said Watts admitted to placing the fetus in a bucket and putting it outside her home, and claimed that Watts told her she did not want the baby. ( Doctors couldn’t even treat her because she KEPT LEAVING. And now you all are attacking the medical system and people working in a high she refused treatment from?)

8 hours. She sat around for 8 hours while staff NOT her doctors dithered about whether she should get the safest treatment, a D&C.

Yes women hide pregnancies. This is a very human thing to do. This woman needs compassion. Not prosecution.

You are a terrible person.

Sitting around= admitted to the hospital, being monitored by medical professionals, big difference. Admitted to the hospital is not hanging out in the ER waiting room. There is a difference nobody here will admit to because it doesn’t fit their false narrative.

This woman hid her pregnancy and the life threatening complications. Her life was in danger. Her baby died. Instead of accepting the treatment that would save her life, she committed to hiding a no -viable pregnancy. Emotionally it is hard but if a person decides to put their own life in danger, how can anyone help them? It has nothing to do with religion or laws because nobody is judging this woman in a religious context and the hospital had admitted her for treatment.

You’re making up facts. She was sitting around in the hospital because Ohio denied her medical care. In any other civilized state or country she would have been immediately offered a d&c. It’s not even clear the hospital ethics panel ever approved her for a d&c anyway. This exact scenario (sitting around with a doomed pregnancy waiting for a medical emergency) has repeated in many states with strict abortion laws. Not sure why you believe something different happened here. BTW it’s also not clear that she got admitted vs sitting in the ER for hours.

You are severely lacking in your knowledge of the facts of this case because this woman was ADMITTED TO THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AND LEFT THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AGAINST THE ADVICE OF THE DOCTORS AND STAFF WHO WERE ATTEMPTING TO SAVE HER LIFE.

EXCEPT THEY WERE HAMPERED BY OHIO LAWS AND HOSPITAL ADMIN WHO WOULD NOT ALLOW THEM PROVIDE THE TREATMENT THEY WANTED TO PROVIDE HER.

THEY WERE TRYING TO TREAT HER AND SHE LEFT

No they were not “trying to treat her.” Treatment would have been an immediate D&C.

D&C was not the only option. But continue to assume you know the case best!

It was the safest option and the one the doctors recommended. Why do you refuse to accept that?

Please point out where I said it wasn’t the safest option. I’ll wait.

She should have received the safest option. Agreed?

Quit moving the goalposts. Please point out where I debated whether or not it was the safest option. Something you accused me of.

You seem to think that the unsafer option was ok to offer as the only option. Why does it not bother you she didn’t get the safer option? Are you one of those people who think s horrible to give d&c’s unless the fetus is clearly dead?

This is why we can’t have a reasonable discussion. You still can’t answer my question.

You’re not arguing in good faith. You suggested there was another option to treat her miscarriage as if it were a reasonable option. Which option would that be? And why do you think it is reasonable? And what is forcing doctors to offer one option but not the safer option?

You can’t be serious. You accused me of something (a 100% false accusation, to be clear), can’t back it up, and are now saying I’M not the one not arguing in good faith? Do you even hear yourself?!?

Clearly you don’t hear yourself or the tone of this: “D&C was not the only option.” What do you mean by that? Do you approve of that other option? Do you think it was a reasonable option?

Since you offer it as a rejoinder to the fact that the D&C was the BEST and SAFEST option.

I mean amputating a toe could also be an option for an infected toenail. Right?

I won’t engage further with someone who can’t answer a simple question because they know they were wrong yet keep dancing around that fact. If you want to answer my question first I’d be happy to continue with the discussion. Otherwise I’m going to bow out.

What’s your question?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I feel for her. The last thing I’d want after giving birth (and a stillbirth at that) is to engage with any human, especially police officers. She must have been exhausted and emotionally distraught.

She went to an appointment with her hairdresser.

You've obviously never worked with victims of trauma before--or even done a basic google search on common trauma responses.

But besides all of that, I don't care if she left her home, hopped on a train and joined the Rockettes kickline at Radio City. It is insane to put a woman in jail for this alleged 'crime'.

“At one point, a physician advised Ms Watts that she should have her labour induced, a procedure that amounted to an abortion and would cause her to deliver the fetus but also put her at “significant risk” of death, according to those records obtained by the Associated Press.“

So the doctors at the hospital wanted to induce her and give her the abortion she needed, but she left the hospital.

Good lord you typed this out in the middle of your screed and don’t even seem to realize what you are saying.

Being induced for l&d which could put you at significant risk for death is NOT the same thing as getting a D&C which is fast and safer.

Are you this clueless about everything? Please share with us your near death experience giving birth or miscarrying

How is giving birth in a toilet, by yourself, safer?

A D&C is not giving birth in a toilet by yourself. Are you always this clueless?

I’m saying giving birth into a toilet isn’t safer than being in a hospital. She left AMA and birthed on her own. I’m asking how that’s safer. If the hospital was going to induce labor one would think that was far safer than doing it on your own.

If only they gave her that option.

Earlier that week, she was admitted twice to Mercy Health St. Joseph Warren Hospital when she experienced agonizing cramps and bleeding. (she was admitted to the hospital twice)

However, she left both times after waiting hours to see a doctor. (yes it takes time to see a doctor. The important thing was she was admitted to the hospital, in a hospital bed with medical professionals monitoring her condition. A doctor signed an order to have her admitted. The doctor who would be in charge of her treatment would be a different doctor. That’s how hospitals work. This woman was hiding her pregnancy from her family and couldn’t stay in a hospital because her family would ask where she was.)

Following the miscarriage, which she suffered at just over 22 weeks pregnant, Watts flushed the toilet.

When the toilet overflowed, she used a bucket to clean up. As she did not want anyone to know about the pregnancy, Watts then went to the salon for a hair appointment.

But the hairdresser was concerned and called her mother. Watts was taken to the hospital, where a nurse phoned 911.

According to transcripts, the nurse told a dispatcher that Watts was sent to the hospital earlier that week with bleeding and left ‘against medical advice.’

‘She came back in on Wednesday still bleeding and said, “Maybe I do need to be seen.” So we readmitted her and we were talking her through everything and she disappeared,’ the nurse said.

She said Watts admitted to placing the fetus in a bucket and putting it outside her home, and claimed that Watts told her she did not want the baby. ( Doctors couldn’t even treat her because she KEPT LEAVING. And now you all are attacking the medical system and people working in a high she refused treatment from?)

8 hours. She sat around for 8 hours while staff NOT her doctors dithered about whether she should get the safest treatment, a D&C.

Yes women hide pregnancies. This is a very human thing to do. This woman needs compassion. Not prosecution.

You are a terrible person.

Sitting around= admitted to the hospital, being monitored by medical professionals, big difference. Admitted to the hospital is not hanging out in the ER waiting room. There is a difference nobody here will admit to because it doesn’t fit their false narrative.

This woman hid her pregnancy and the life threatening complications. Her life was in danger. Her baby died. Instead of accepting the treatment that would save her life, she committed to hiding a no -viable pregnancy. Emotionally it is hard but if a person decides to put their own life in danger, how can anyone help them? It has nothing to do with religion or laws because nobody is judging this woman in a religious context and the hospital had admitted her for treatment.

You’re making up facts. She was sitting around in the hospital because Ohio denied her medical care. In any other civilized state or country she would have been immediately offered a d&c. It’s not even clear the hospital ethics panel ever approved her for a d&c anyway. This exact scenario (sitting around with a doomed pregnancy waiting for a medical emergency) has repeated in many states with strict abortion laws. Not sure why you believe something different happened here. BTW it’s also not clear that she got admitted vs sitting in the ER for hours.

You are severely lacking in your knowledge of the facts of this case because this woman was ADMITTED TO THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AND LEFT THE SAME HOSPITAL TWICE AGAINST THE ADVICE OF THE DOCTORS AND STAFF WHO WERE ATTEMPTING TO SAVE HER LIFE.

EXCEPT THEY WERE HAMPERED BY OHIO LAWS AND HOSPITAL ADMIN WHO WOULD NOT ALLOW THEM PROVIDE THE TREATMENT THEY WANTED TO PROVIDE HER.

THEY WERE TRYING TO TREAT HER AND SHE LEFT

No they were not “trying to treat her.” Treatment would have been an immediate D&C.

D&C was not the only option. But continue to assume you know the case best!

It was the safest option and the one the doctors recommended. Why do you refuse to accept that?

Please point out where I said it wasn’t the safest option. I’ll wait.

She should have received the safest option. Agreed?

Quit moving the goalposts. Please point out where I debated whether or not it was the safest option. Something you accused me of.

You seem to think that the unsafer option was ok to offer as the only option. Why does it not bother you she didn’t get the safer option? Are you one of those people who think s horrible to give d&c’s unless the fetus is clearly dead?

This is why we can’t have a reasonable discussion. You still can’t answer my question.

You’re not arguing in good faith. You suggested there was another option to treat her miscarriage as if it were a reasonable option. Which option would that be? And why do you think it is reasonable? And what is forcing doctors to offer one option but not the safer option?

You can’t be serious. You accused me of something (a 100% false accusation, to be clear), can’t back it up, and are now saying I’M not the one not arguing in good faith? Do you even hear yourself?!?

Clearly you don’t hear yourself or the tone of this: “D&C was not the only option.” What do you mean by that? Do you approve of that other option? Do you think it was a reasonable option?

Since you offer it as a rejoinder to the fact that the D&C was the BEST and SAFEST option.

I mean amputating a toe could also be an option for an infected toenail. Right?

I won’t engage further with someone who can’t answer a simple question because they know they were wrong yet keep dancing around that fact. If you want to answer my question first I’d be happy to continue with the discussion. Otherwise I’m going to bow out.

Oh the irony.

You are the one who said “D&C was not the only option.” As if that is a significant fact. Even though you won’t actually say what that option was.

You are bowing out because you don’t want to say that you think it’s just fine to offer a an option “that could result in the patient’s death” (what the doctor said, as per the newspaper reports). Have the courage of your convictions!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I am still confused by all the details. I think that charging her was absolutely the wrong thing to do, and the police and prosecutor who participated in bringing those charges are doing absolutely the wrong thing.

However, I am not totally understanding the hatred being directed at the nurse. It seems to be based on three things.

1) She referred to the fetus as a baby. Which people do all the time. I am 100% pro choice. I do not think a fetus has the same status or rights as a born child. But I absolutely told my DH "Ooh, the baby is kicking" and my older child "There is a baby growing in mommy's tummy". Colloquially, lots of people use the word "baby" to refer to fetuses.

2) She called 911 about the claim that the remains fetus were in a bucket outside. To me, a fetal remains, or at least those that are far enough along to appear human in a bucket outside are a problem. They might be a problem because the medical team might want to test to them to see why the fetus died. They might be a problem, because no one wants a wild animal dragging that through your yard. They might be a problem because someone could be exposed to medical waste and potential germs. They might be a problem, because once she was past the trauma, Brittany Watts, who sounds like she was pretty dissociated and probably very out of it from blood loss, might have wanted to choose how to dispose of them. And, since I'm unclear what the nurse knew in the moment about the previous admissions, and the length of gestation, and the medical picture, might have been a problem because if she wasn't 100% sure that the fetus was delivered dead, then there was a responsibility to investigate. So, sending someone to the house to secure the bucket and investigate, and maybe look in the toilet once it was determined that the baby wasn't in the bucket, makes sense to me. And I don't know, other than 911, who you call to do that. So, in that moment, that might have been who I called.

I like to think that where I live, in Maryland, you could call police to help a woman secure the remains of her miscarriage, for burial or medical testing, without that woman then having her charged with a crime, and before this I wouldn't even have occurred to me that I was putting her at risk of being charged with a crime. So, I guess I am saying that while I think the prosecutor and the police are awful human beings, I'm going to withhold judgment on this nurse.

Now, if it turns out that there is a timeline where the nurse reviewed all the medical documentation before she made that call, or she was involved in previous medical care and so knew without a doubt that the fetus was dead, that might change my mind.

But, otherwise, I'm going to ask. Before you read about this case. If you were suddenly faced with a bleeding disoriented woman who may not have seemed like a reliable narrator (trauma and blood loss will do that) who was far enough along in a pregnancy that the baby might have been viable, and said that she had delivered a baby, but didn't have a baby or corpse with her, and said that the body was in her backyard unprotected, what would you do?

I would review her medical chart which would clearly say that she had a miscarriage.

Which doesn't address what I wrote. If you knew someone had a miscarriage, and you thought a fetus old enough to look human was unsecured in their backyard, what is the appropriate thing to do? At that point, you don't know what the woman who miscarried will want to do with it. You don't know if the medical team will want it for testing. You don't know if some dog is going to drag it into the next door neighbor's yard where their children are playing.

Having someone retrieve the fetal remains, and secure them, seems reasonable to me. I can believe that, and not believe she should have been arrested.

I would talk to patient about the need to get the remains out of the way and ask if she wanted to have the, tested and then indicate Inwas calling someone to go pick them up. Is t that what you would do, talk to the patient?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/itop97.pdf

I would suggest you follow the law of your state (ohio in this case) and do
your job correctly and maintain your nursing license/medical license.

We know you all think you can do whatever you want, but in the real world medical professionals have rules to follow mandated by law.

“reporting” means filling out a form, not calling the police.

The nurse was told by the mother that the dead baby was outside of her home in a bucket. You can’t be so dumb to think that is an acceptable place for the body of a dead baby? You think the doctor should write down that the baby was left outside in a bucket and that would be acceptable? You are really off your rocker if you think that’s ok. I suppose if your neighbor gave birth to a stillborn baby and placed it outside, you and your kids would want to walk by the baby in the bucket? Wild animals attracted to blood and a decaying human body would eventually come consume the baby possibly.

Tell me how any of that is acceptable to you as a human being, and tell me how the state medical board would receive your report of a baby discarded publicly anywhere but in this case a residential neighborhood outside a home?

I really think some of you are trolling. This is not acceptable on any level.

You don’t call the police on everything you deem “unacceptable.” And in fact no, I don’t deem it unacceptable, any more than if she flushed an 18 week pregnancy. I think policing what women do with a miscarriage based on your personal sense of disgust is unacceptable.

It’s called state law you doughnut.

there is no state law that required her to call the police. the cite to the CDC was about reporting to the state vital records dept.

So a patient tells you her dead baby is outside in a bucket. You write down what? Nobody needs to do anything? You are a troll.

[Anonymous]

This thread has 1100 posts and exactly no one has said, and Ohio state law doesn’t say, what exactly she should have done with the fetal remains. Should she have bought a tiny coffin on her way home from the hospital which didn’t provide her with the standard of care for her situation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone going to educate the thread on hiw the nurse committed malpractice?

Everyone agrees dead babies can be discarded outside a home in a bucket in residential neighborhood? Remember, if you see the body of a baby laying around somewhere outside by your neighbor’s house, keep it moving, nosy! You wouldn’t want to deprive someone of their freedom to discard their babies in public. The police don’t care at all.

Not malpractice, but a false or negligent police report. There a plenty of cases of parents suing for being reported to law enforcement for false claims of child abuse. One massive jury verdict in Flordia on this recently. In this case the nurse, with a cursory look at the records, could have ascertained this was a miscarriage and there was no live baby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I am still confused by all the details. I think that charging her was absolutely the wrong thing to do, and the police and prosecutor who participated in bringing those charges are doing absolutely the wrong thing.

However, I am not totally understanding the hatred being directed at the nurse. It seems to be based on three things.

1) She referred to the fetus as a baby. Which people do all the time. I am 100% pro choice. I do not think a fetus has the same status or rights as a born child. But I absolutely told my DH "Ooh, the baby is kicking" and my older child "There is a baby growing in mommy's tummy". Colloquially, lots of people use the word "baby" to refer to fetuses.

2) She called 911 about the claim that the remains fetus were in a bucket outside. To me, a fetal remains, or at least those that are far enough along to appear human in a bucket outside are a problem. They might be a problem because the medical team might want to test to them to see why the fetus died. They might be a problem, because no one wants a wild animal dragging that through your yard. They might be a problem because someone could be exposed to medical waste and potential germs. They might be a problem, because once she was past the trauma, Brittany Watts, who sounds like she was pretty dissociated and probably very out of it from blood loss, might have wanted to choose how to dispose of them. And, since I'm unclear what the nurse knew in the moment about the previous admissions, and the length of gestation, and the medical picture, might have been a problem because if she wasn't 100% sure that the fetus was delivered dead, then there was a responsibility to investigate. So, sending someone to the house to secure the bucket and investigate, and maybe look in the toilet once it was determined that the baby wasn't in the bucket, makes sense to me. And I don't know, other than 911, who you call to do that. So, in that moment, that might have been who I called.

I like to think that where I live, in Maryland, you could call police to help a woman secure the remains of her miscarriage, for burial or medical testing, without that woman then having her charged with a crime, and before this I wouldn't even have occurred to me that I was putting her at risk of being charged with a crime. So, I guess I am saying that while I think the prosecutor and the police are awful human beings, I'm going to withhold judgment on this nurse.

Now, if it turns out that there is a timeline where the nurse reviewed all the medical documentation before she made that call, or she was involved in previous medical care and so knew without a doubt that the fetus was dead, that might change my mind.

But, otherwise, I'm going to ask. Before you read about this case. If you were suddenly faced with a bleeding disoriented woman who may not have seemed like a reliable narrator (trauma and blood loss will do that) who was far enough along in a pregnancy that the baby might have been viable, and said that she had delivered a baby, but didn't have a baby or corpse with her, and said that the body was in her backyard unprotected, what would you do?

I would review her medical chart which would clearly say that she had a miscarriage.

Which doesn't address what I wrote. If you knew someone had a miscarriage, and you thought a fetus old enough to look human was unsecured in their backyard, what is the appropriate thing to do? At that point, you don't know what the woman who miscarried will want to do with it. You don't know if the medical team will want it for testing. You don't know if some dog is going to drag it into the next door neighbor's yard where their children are playing.

Having someone retrieve the fetal remains, and secure them, seems reasonable to me. I can believe that, and not believe she should have been arrested.

I would talk to patient about the need to get the remains out of the way and ask if she wanted to have the, tested and then indicate Inwas calling someone to go pick them up. Is t that what you would do, talk to the patient?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/itop97.pdf

I would suggest you follow the law of your state (ohio in this case) and do
your job correctly and maintain your nursing license/medical license.

We know you all think you can do whatever you want, but in the real world medical professionals have rules to follow mandated by law.

“reporting” means filling out a form, not calling the police.

The nurse was told by the mother that the dead baby was outside of her home in a bucket. You can’t be so dumb to think that is an acceptable place for the body of a dead baby? You think the doctor should write down that the baby was left outside in a bucket and that would be acceptable? You are really off your rocker if you think that’s ok. I suppose if your neighbor gave birth to a stillborn baby and placed it outside, you and your kids would want to walk by the baby in the bucket? Wild animals attracted to blood and a decaying human body would eventually come consume the baby possibly.

Tell me how any of that is acceptable to you as a human being, and tell me how the state medical board would receive your report of a baby discarded publicly anywhere but in this case a residential neighborhood outside a home?

I really think some of you are trolling. This is not acceptable on any level.

You don’t call the police on everything you deem “unacceptable.” And in fact no, I don’t deem it unacceptable, any more than if she flushed an 18 week pregnancy. I think policing what women do with a miscarriage based on your personal sense of disgust is unacceptable.

It’s called state law you doughnut.

there is no state law that required her to call the police. the cite to the CDC was about reporting to the state vital records dept.

So a patient tells you her dead baby is outside in a bucket. You write down what? Nobody needs to do anything? You are a troll.

A patient tells you “I miscarried at home and threw it away” and you have no further discussion, as you have ample records in front of you showing that in fact she was going through a stillbirth/miscarry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I love how the forced-birthers are now clinging to the narrative that her wrongdoing was actually leaving the hospital …

This entire thread shows how divided people are and dogmatic about their beliefs. They can’t see nuance or consider another point of view. The pro lifers automatically assume she was in the wrong and the pro choices jump to the conclusion she didn’t do anything wrong at all and the event was just like their miscarriage. Really the truth is likely somewhere in the middle. The lack of medical care is concerning and it’s also concerning someone found a foot stuck in her toilet.

Most likely she has severe mental health issues since she’s telling people there is a body in a bucket in her backyard.

Most sane people don’t refer to second trimester fetal remains as “a body”.

Did the hospital give her a body bag to put it in if she passed it at home?

What was otherwise available to her for placing what she thought were fetal remains in? A bucket seems as good a container as anything else. Would you have preferred a paper bag? A baking pan? A shoebox? Please enlighten us what women are supposed to do with the bloody remnants of a pregnancy. Because most of us don’t know. I flushed mine down the toilet.

Unborn babies have bodies, they are developing humans.



This baby was 21 weeks old when born, and survived. The baby in this case was a week older.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.goodmorningamerica.com/amp/family/story/miracle-baby-born-21-weeks-heads-home-hospital-74848084

This woman tried to flush her baby down the toilet, but the baby’s body was too big and he or she became stuck in the toilet. The police who investigated found the baby’s body stuck in the toilet. The mother has scooped blood and feces into the bucket so she hide the fact she had given birth.

The hospital had admitted her twice before and she signed herself out if the hospital against her doctor’s orders. They made sure she was aware she needed medical care and could likely die if she left. She left anyway.

Her baby was dead you idiot. She signed herself out because the hospital board was debating for hours and hours what to do with her while she waited. That baby wasn't going to live no matter what, you a-hole.

Yeah no crap, this woman left the hospital twice against the advice of her doctors. The doctors and hospital were figuring out the best way to treat this woman and give her medical care to save HER life, as we all know the baby was already dead, her checking herself out TWICE was insane. The doctors and hospitals don’t make the rules, but they have to follow them. Just like the nurse who was doing her job to the standard of her profession and to the laws enacted by the state and federal government. The doctors and hospitals were not neglecting her, they were simply trying to make sure she received the right treatment and they admitted her twice.
I have been admitted to the hospital for a late term miscarriage/stillbirth and the doctors performed my procedure the NEXT DAY. She waited 8 hours, ok? Unless she was in an emergency situation she would have to wait for her procedure to be scheduled and performed, she was hospitalized and being monitored until that was able to be scheduled.

The sheer idiocy exhibited in this thread by hysterical women makes me weep for the future. People who are keeping a life threatening medical issue secret from their families don’t usually do well. People who check themselves out of the hospital twice against doctor’s advice don’t usually do well. People who attack medical professionals (hint: a nurse who is your front line caregiver doing her job) usually are psychopaths/morons. People who are in the throes of a life threatening hemorrhage who do not go to the hospital and instead go get their hair done are probably going to hemorrhage to death because they are more invested in keeping a secret than saving their own lives. I hemorrhaged after my 4th child and it went from oh gosh this is weird what’s up to omg help me and being taken by ambulance to the hospital and admitted and undergoing life saving surgery. It’s unexplainable why this woman would repeatedly do things that threatened her OWN life. Notice I do not address the life of her baby, as her baby was dead and not an issue other than she told her nurse she didn’t want her baby and threw her baby out with a bucket of sh&t in her yard. (Really she used a plunger to push her own baby into the toilet pipes, wtf, leave the baby in the toilet bowl and CALL AN AMBULANCE. Don’t shower, put on makeup, and go bleed out in a chair in a beauty salon. The emts and people who come to help you will deal with the baby in the toilet bowl and take you to a hospital where your life will be saved.)

I look forward to the future of America where militant pro-abortion women will be checking themselves out of hospitals because they don’t like to have to wait for medical care because gasp people are also sick and their lives are in danger and doctors are working to save those people, too. Being admitted and under the care of a team of doctors won’t be sufficient. After miscarrying or giving birth to a dead baby, women will be throwing their dead babies about willy nilly screaming about their “rights” and bleeding out in Publix and when a nurse (on her 4th 12 hour shift (really 14-16 hours but who is counting lol)) does her job she will be doxxed online and fired and harassed by the lynch mob, it’s so special to treat professional women like that as they care for their patients, wtf is wrong with you people?

So you think she should go to jail? For what, not telling her mom she was pregnant?

I don’t know what should happen to this woman, but nobody else is at fault for her situation, she failed herself and her family by not taking responsibility for her own life. The death of her baby is tragic but not her fault whatsoever. She is not responsible for that tragedy. She is causing the people who tried repeatedly and succeeded eventually to save her life to be attacked and blamed for her neglect of her medical condition. That’s what people here are doing too. It’s unconscionable to blame the medical professionals for a situation they could not control because the patient was non-compliant to the point of allowing herself to almost die.

People aren’t blaming the doctors.

They are blaming the religious a-holes who prevented the doctors from doing their job.

People are blaming the doctors and people have posted comments here and other places online that:

-the doctors should be sued
-the hospital system should be sued
-the nurse who “told on her” (did her job) should be publicly named, fired, sued, harassed, etc.
-the medical professionals did not admit her, they left her sitting alone in an er in pain and bleeding for 8 hours (they did admit her twice)
- that this woman was “sent home” to pass her baby alone (she left)

You all have been blaming people who tried to do their jobs and take care of her, you all suck.

Ok. That nurse was horrible. She should be blamed.

But the rest were hampered by religious extremists.

The nurse was doing her job, she did her job, and did nothing wrong.

She absolutely did something wrong.

There was zero need to call the police.

She’s probably another religious freak who wants to persecute women for sadistic reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how the forced-birthers are now clinging to the narrative that her wrongdoing was actually leaving the hospital …

This entire thread shows how divided people are and dogmatic about their beliefs. They can’t see nuance or consider another point of view. The pro lifers automatically assume she was in the wrong and the pro choices jump to the conclusion she didn’t do anything wrong at all and the event was just like their miscarriage. Really the truth is likely somewhere in the middle. The lack of medical care is concerning and it’s also concerning someone found a foot stuck in her toilet.

Most likely she has severe mental health issues since she’s telling people there is a body in a bucket in her backyard.

Most sane people don’t refer to second trimester fetal remains as “a body”.

Did the hospital give her a body bag to put it in if she passed it at home?

What was otherwise available to her for placing what she thought were fetal remains in? A bucket seems as good a container as anything else. Would you have preferred a paper bag? A baking pan? A shoebox? Please enlighten us what women are supposed to do with the bloody remnants of a pregnancy. Because most of us don’t know. I flushed mine down the toilet.

Unborn babies have bodies, they are developing humans.



This baby was 21 weeks old when born, and survived. The baby in this case was a week older.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.goodmorningamerica.com/amp/family/story/miracle-baby-born-21-weeks-heads-home-hospital-74848084

This woman tried to flush her baby down the toilet, but the baby’s body was too big and he or she became stuck in the toilet. The police who investigated found the baby’s body stuck in the toilet. The mother has scooped blood and feces into the bucket so she hide the fact she had given birth.

The hospital had admitted her twice before and she signed herself out if the hospital against her doctor’s orders. They made sure she was aware she needed medical care and could likely die if she left. She left anyway.

Her baby was dead you idiot. She signed herself out because the hospital board was debating for hours and hours what to do with her while she waited. That baby wasn't going to live no matter what, you a-hole.

Yeah no crap, this woman left the hospital twice against the advice of her doctors. The doctors and hospital were figuring out the best way to treat this woman and give her medical care to save HER life, as we all know the baby was already dead, her checking herself out TWICE was insane. The doctors and hospitals don’t make the rules, but they have to follow them. Just like the nurse who was doing her job to the standard of her profession and to the laws enacted by the state and federal government. The doctors and hospitals were not neglecting her, they were simply trying to make sure she received the right treatment and they admitted her twice.
I have been admitted to the hospital for a late term miscarriage/stillbirth and the doctors performed my procedure the NEXT DAY. She waited 8 hours, ok? Unless she was in an emergency situation she would have to wait for her procedure to be scheduled and performed, she was hospitalized and being monitored until that was able to be scheduled.

The sheer idiocy exhibited in this thread by hysterical women makes me weep for the future. People who are keeping a life threatening medical issue secret from their families don’t usually do well. People who check themselves out of the hospital twice against doctor’s advice don’t usually do well. People who attack medical professionals (hint: a nurse who is your front line caregiver doing her job) usually are psychopaths/morons. People who are in the throes of a life threatening hemorrhage who do not go to the hospital and instead go get their hair done are probably going to hemorrhage to death because they are more invested in keeping a secret than saving their own lives. I hemorrhaged after my 4th child and it went from oh gosh this is weird what’s up to omg help me and being taken by ambulance to the hospital and admitted and undergoing life saving surgery. It’s unexplainable why this woman would repeatedly do things that threatened her OWN life. Notice I do not address the life of her baby, as her baby was dead and not an issue other than she told her nurse she didn’t want her baby and threw her baby out with a bucket of sh&t in her yard. (Really she used a plunger to push her own baby into the toilet pipes, wtf, leave the baby in the toilet bowl and CALL AN AMBULANCE. Don’t shower, put on makeup, and go bleed out in a chair in a beauty salon. The emts and people who come to help you will deal with the baby in the toilet bowl and take you to a hospital where your life will be saved.)

I look forward to the future of America where militant pro-abortion women will be checking themselves out of hospitals because they don’t like to have to wait for medical care because gasp people are also sick and their lives are in danger and doctors are working to save those people, too. Being admitted and under the care of a team of doctors won’t be sufficient. After miscarrying or giving birth to a dead baby, women will be throwing their dead babies about willy nilly screaming about their “rights” and bleeding out in Publix and when a nurse (on her 4th 12 hour shift (really 14-16 hours but who is counting lol)) does her job she will be doxxed online and fired and harassed by the lynch mob, it’s so special to treat professional women like that as they care for their patients, wtf is wrong with you people?

So you think she should go to jail? For what, not telling her mom she was pregnant?

I don’t know what should happen to this woman, but nobody else is at fault for her situation, she failed herself and her family by not taking responsibility for her own life. The death of her baby is tragic but not her fault whatsoever. She is not responsible for that tragedy. She is causing the people who tried repeatedly and succeeded eventually to save her life to be attacked and blamed for her neglect of her medical condition. That’s what people here are doing too. It’s unconscionable to blame the medical professionals for a situation they could not control because the patient was non-compliant to the point of allowing herself to almost die.

People aren’t blaming the doctors.

They are blaming the religious a-holes who prevented the doctors from doing their job.

People are blaming the doctors and people have posted comments here and other places online that:

-the doctors should be sued
-the hospital system should be sued
-the nurse who “told on her” (did her job) should be publicly named, fired, sued, harassed, etc.
-the medical professionals did not admit her, they left her sitting alone in an er in pain and bleeding for 8 hours (they did admit her twice)
- that this woman was “sent home” to pass her baby alone (she left)

You all have been blaming people who tried to do their jobs and take care of her, you all suck.

Ok. That nurse was horrible. She should be blamed.

But the rest were hampered by religious extremists.

The nurse was doing her job, she did her job, and did nothing wrong.

She absolutely did something wrong.

There was zero need to call the police.

She’s probably another religious freak who wants to persecute women for sadistic reasons.

She assumed the worst about Brittany because she was black and alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread has 1100 posts and exactly no one has said, and Ohio state law doesn’t say, what exactly she should have done with the fetal remains. Should she have bought a tiny coffin on her way home from the hospital which didn’t provide her with the standard of care for her situation?

B) The product of human conception of at least twenty weeks of gestation that suffers a fetal death occurring in Ohio shall not be interred, deposited in a vault or tomb, cremated, or otherwise disposed of by a funeral director or other person until a fetal death certificate or provisional death certificate has been filed with and a burial permit is issued by the local registrar of vital statistics of the registration district in which the fetal death occurs, or the body is found

https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-3705.20

So sadly for you ghouls, babies have to be accounted for by laws. No throwing babies in a bucket and allowing them to be dragged off by raccoons or decay into a tiny skeleton.

The nurse did the correct thing. She followed the law, because she is a competent nurse, not some loon posting online about tiny coffins.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am still confused by all the details. I think that charging her was absolutely the wrong thing to do, and the police and prosecutor who participated in bringing those charges are doing absolutely the wrong thing.

However, I am not totally understanding the hatred being directed at the nurse. It seems to be based on three things.

1) She referred to the fetus as a baby. Which people do all the time. I am 100% pro choice. I do not think a fetus has the same status or rights as a born child. But I absolutely told my DH "Ooh, the baby is kicking" and my older child "There is a baby growing in mommy's tummy". Colloquially, lots of people use the word "baby" to refer to fetuses.

2) She called 911 about the claim that the remains fetus were in a bucket outside. To me, a fetal remains, or at least those that are far enough along to appear human in a bucket outside are a problem. They might be a problem because the medical team might want to test to them to see why the fetus died. They might be a problem, because no one wants a wild animal dragging that through your yard. They might be a problem because someone could be exposed to medical waste and potential germs. They might be a problem, because once she was past the trauma, Brittany Watts, who sounds like she was pretty dissociated and probably very out of it from blood loss, might have wanted to choose how to dispose of them. And, since I'm unclear what the nurse knew in the moment about the previous admissions, and the length of gestation, and the medical picture, might have been a problem because if she wasn't 100% sure that the fetus was delivered dead, then there was a responsibility to investigate. So, sending someone to the house to secure the bucket and investigate, and maybe look in the toilet once it was determined that the baby wasn't in the bucket, makes sense to me. And I don't know, other than 911, who you call to do that. So, in that moment, that might have been who I called.

I like to think that where I live, in Maryland, you could call police to help a woman secure the remains of her miscarriage, for burial or medical testing, without that woman then having her charged with a crime, and before this I wouldn't even have occurred to me that I was putting her at risk of being charged with a crime. So, I guess I am saying that while I think the prosecutor and the police are awful human beings, I'm going to withhold judgment on this nurse.

Now, if it turns out that there is a timeline where the nurse reviewed all the medical documentation before she made that call, or she was involved in previous medical care and so knew without a doubt that the fetus was dead, that might change my mind.

But, otherwise, I'm going to ask. Before you read about this case. If you were suddenly faced with a bleeding disoriented woman who may not have seemed like a reliable narrator (trauma and blood loss will do that) who was far enough along in a pregnancy that the baby might have been viable, and said that she had delivered a baby, but didn't have a baby or corpse with her, and said that the body was in her backyard unprotected, what would you do?

I would review her medical chart which would clearly say that she had a miscarriage.

Which doesn't address what I wrote. If you knew someone had a miscarriage, and you thought a fetus old enough to look human was unsecured in their backyard, what is the appropriate thing to do? At that point, you don't know what the woman who miscarried will want to do with it. You don't know if the medical team will want it for testing. You don't know if some dog is going to drag it into the next door neighbor's yard where their children are playing.

Having someone retrieve the fetal remains, and secure them, seems reasonable to me. I can believe that, and not believe she should have been arrested.

I would talk to patient about the need to get the remains out of the way and ask if she wanted to have the, tested and then indicate Inwas calling someone to go pick them up. Is t that what you would do, talk to the patient?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/misc/itop97.pdf

I would suggest you follow the law of your state (ohio in this case) and do
your job correctly and maintain your nursing license/medical license.

We know you all think you can do whatever you want, but in the real world medical professionals have rules to follow mandated by law.

“reporting” means filling out a form, not calling the police.

The nurse was told by the mother that the dead baby was outside of her home in a bucket. You can’t be so dumb to think that is an acceptable place for the body of a dead baby? You think the doctor should write down that the baby was left outside in a bucket and that would be acceptable? You are really off your rocker if you think that’s ok. I suppose if your neighbor gave birth to a stillborn baby and placed it outside, you and your kids would want to walk by the baby in the bucket? Wild animals attracted to blood and a decaying human body would eventually come consume the baby possibly.

Tell me how any of that is acceptable to you as a human being, and tell me how the state medical board would receive your report of a baby discarded publicly anywhere but in this case a residential neighborhood outside a home?

I really think some of you are trolling. This is not acceptable on any level.

You don’t call the police on everything you deem “unacceptable.” And in fact no, I don’t deem it unacceptable, any more than if she flushed an 18 week pregnancy. I think policing what women do with a miscarriage based on your personal sense of disgust is unacceptable.

It’s called state law you doughnut.

there is no state law that required her to call the police. the cite to the CDC was about reporting to the state vital records dept.

So a patient tells you her dead baby is outside in a bucket. You write down what? Nobody needs to do anything? You are a troll.

A patient tells you “I miscarried at home and threw it away” and you have no further discussion, as you have ample records in front of you showing that in fact she was going through a stillbirth/miscarry.

Today I learned the people posting here don’t know what they are talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread has 1100 posts and exactly no one has said, and Ohio state law doesn’t say, what exactly she should have done with the fetal remains. Should she have bought a tiny coffin on her way home from the hospital which didn’t provide her with the standard of care for her situation?

B) The product of human conception of at least twenty weeks of gestation that suffers a fetal death occurring in Ohio shall not be interred, deposited in a vault or tomb, cremated, or otherwise disposed of by a funeral director or other person until a fetal death certificate or provisional death certificate has been filed with and a burial permit is issued by the local registrar of vital statistics of the registration district in which the fetal death occurs, or the body is found

https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-3705.20

So sadly for you ghouls, babies have to be accounted for by laws. No throwing babies in a bucket and allowing them to be dragged off by raccoons or decay into a tiny skeleton.

The nurse did the correct thing. She followed the law, because she is a competent nurse, not some loon posting online about tiny coffins.

That is about filling out the death certificate - the nurse could have infomed Watts about that without calling 911. Nothing in the law required her to call 911 because she mistakenly believed the fetus was alive.